Infiray and their P2 Pro - discussion

[Fraser]

I thought a discussion of the recently released Infiray P2 Pro was warranted as it tells us something about Infiray as a company

The company

Infiray is a very interesting company as it is not just another “screwdriver” manufacturer of thermal imaging cameras. Infiray and the venerable IRAY are effectively one and the same as they belong to the same owner. IRAY manufacture uncooled microbolometers so their sister company, Infiray, effectively have an in-house source of one of the most important elements of a decent thermal imager…. The Microbolometer FPA. Such a close relationship helps to ensure an Infiray product that can deliver the best performance possible from the microbolometer. How ? well through better understanding of its capabilities and integration needs. I have seen “screwdriver” manufacturers truly mess up a thermal cameras performance through a lack of understanding of the microbolometers integration needs for decent imagery.

The products

Infiray produces a decent range of thermal imaging products to match the needs of a large array of end users. They produce both thermal imaging cores for OEM use and finished thermal imaging products for consumers. I have been monitoring the development of products by Infiray and had my first chance to test one of their cores a while ago. I must be honest and admit that I was not expecting much from the Infiray S0 core that I was testing as previous cores coming out of ASIA had exhibited mediocre image quality, with quite high image noise levels. I connected the Infiray S0 core to a Windows PC and awaited the thermal image produced by the windows Software……. After adjusting the focus I was presented with an image that impressed me. The resolution appeared adequate and the image noise levels were excellent when compared to other miniature cores that I had tested. I immediately liked the Infiray S0 core  It was the core that I had been waiting for in the marketplace…..compact, affordable and good image quality…. plus it offered 25fps frame rate ! My first thoughts were that both FLIR and Seek Thermal now had some serious competition to their Lepton and Mosaic cores. I actually considered the S0 to be a Lepton and Mosaic killer as it offered significant advantages over the USA sourced cores. Infiray had themselves a winner.

The S0 is a miniature thermal imaging core with great performance, but it was the size of a Seek Mosaic. The marketplace really needed an even smaller thermal imaging core for integration into all manner of modern devices, both civilian and military  Think mobile phones and miniature drones. Infiray were clearly up for the challenge and released the Infiray Tiny1-x series of thermal imaging cores. Things were about to get a bit crazy ! This Tiny1-x core was tiny by name “Tiny One”  and by nature. It is an amazing feat of engineering, much like that of the FLIR Lepton, and it promises significant advantages over FLIR’s core. Not least of which are higher resolution and decent frame rate. Great for drone use ! The Tiny1 is like an S0 that has been slimmed down to make it a minimalist physical package. It’s small size should not be considered a sign of low performance however. It likely uses the same microbolometer die found in the S0 and has been mounted in a less bulky chassis. The Tiny1 is available in different formats to suit an OEM’s needs. The Tiny1-B is a rectangular PCB with the microbolometer and lens installed at one end. The Tiny1-C is a smaller footprint microbolometer and Lens PCB plus a separate processor PCB. This makes the Tiny1-C a more versatile format for compact deployments. It also has the potential to separate sources of localised heating from the sensitive microbolometer die. Seek Thermal did this with their Mosaic core to separate the microbolometer from the hotter processor components.

It will come as absolutely no surprise to hear that the technology developed for the Infiray S0 and Tiny1-x cores has been integrated into the finished thermal imaging camera products that Infiray offer to the marketplace. These finished products offer excellent value for money thermal imaging as a result. The Tiny1-x core technology is to be found in several hand held thermal imaging cameras that come to mind. Guide Sensmart have designed their own miniature thermal imaging cores and these have also found their way into the more budget orientated end of the handheld thermal imaging camera market. Not taking anything away from what Guide Sensmart have achieve with their TIMO series of cores, but the Infiray Tiny1-x is, in my opinion, a superior product.

The Infiray P2

So what has all of the above got to do with the Infiray P2 Pro mobile phone dongle thermal camera ? Well the last paragraph says it all really. Infiray created the diminutive Tiny1-x thermal imaging core and then included that technology in handheld thermal imaging products. The market for thermal imaging cameras includes those who wish to attach a compact module to their very capable modern mobile phones. We already have the FLIR One, Seek Thermal, Thermal Expert and several other dongle type cameras on the market but it has room to develop. Infiray wanted a piece of that “Dongle” market. The result was the Infiray T2L and it’s variants. That dongle is basically an S0 core in a dongle chassis and very capable it is too. In order to go smaller than the T2L, Infiray looked to their Tiny1-x core series. The Tiny1-x is fixed focus and more compact so it presented the opportunity to create a really small thermal imaging dongle…. And that is what Infiray did  The P2 is so compact that users would be excused for thinking it’s imagery would be poor due to size induced compromises. That is not the case however. Those who tested the P2 have been pleasantly surprised by its imaging capabilities. It looks like we had a new “darling” of the thermal imaging dongle marketplace to consider when buying a mobile phone dongle thermal camera 

Now remember that I said the Tiny1-x series are fixed focus. ….. well the focus can be adjusted but not when the core is secured inside a dust tight casing as found with the Infiray P2. I was pleasantly surprised to see the P2 used a large lens protection window in front of the imaging core. It would have been cheaper for Infiray to use a much smaller protection window, as found on the FLIR One series or even no protection window, as we see on many Seek Thermal Mosaic core deployments. Infiray chose to protect the core but that removed access to the cores focus mechanism. Some users desired a closer focus capability than can be easily achieved with a fixed focus camera system. Whilst the P2 may be capable of decent focus at quite short distances, it was not really designed for PCB analysis duties without some help from a close-up lens. The use of ZnSe close-up lenses on thermal cameras is well known and understood on this forum. It has normally been a case of an end user creating their own solution using commonly available CO2 laser ZnSe focussing lenses though. These laser focus lenses are not optimised for such duties, but they do work well. It is not common to see a camera manufacturer offering an add-on close focus lens for consumer grade products. They are offered for some professional grade Industrial cameras, but at horrendous cost ! Infiray have addressed this situation with their new "baby".....

The Infiray P2 PRO

It is time to introduce the latest offering from Infiray…… the P2 Pro. There has been some “chatter” about this new release from Infiray on this forum and I hope to test this camera in the near future. It offers some interesting advantages over the standard P2 model. The P2 Pro is capable of temperature measurement up to 550 Celsius whereas the P2 was limited to 170 Celsius. This will appeal to those wishing to image the high temperatures found on power electronics or during reflow/soldering operations. The increase in maximum temperature measurement capability is a welcome improvement to the standard P2 specification. That said, 170 Celsius is more than enough for many users of this technology ! Now the interesting bit……… Infiray appear to be a company that monitors users activities in thermal imaging and have chosen to ‘tune’ one of their products to better match the needs of a certain group of users …. namely those of us who use thermal imaging in electronics inspection and analysis. Infiray created a novel add-on close-up lens for the P2 camera series. I was pleasantly surprised to see the very nicely designed close up lens that neatly mounts onto the relatively flat front of the P2 casing using magnets. For me, it was as great to see Infiray deciding to create such a niche, but very useful option for their camera. I strongly suspect that the infiray close-up lens will have better optical performance than the ZnSe laser focus lenses that we often use. This definitely gets a  from me.

Reviews of this new P2 Pro model ?

The P2 Pro will soon be tested and reviewed by end users so we can expect to see the new models enhanced capabilities being shown on forums, such as this, and Youtube channels, such as Mike’s. I think we are in for a treat  Such a compact camera format lends itself to all manner of deployments. It does not have to be mounted directly on a mobile phone, it can be used with a long USB cable to increase versatility. Mounting on a microscope stand for PCB analysis work would be simple  I own large Android tablets that will happily interface the Infiray P2 Pro so that offers me large screen PCB thermal analysis  I suspect Windows PC’s might also be an option for a Host in the future as I was able to use my S0 core based camera with a bespoke Windows 10 thermal analysis program. Infiray may already offer a Windows SDK for their Tiny1-x cores so that might be a path that members of this forum will explore.

I can see all manner of 3D printable mounting accessories being created for the diminutive P2/P2 PRO   

Well I have written enough for now. I see the Infiray S0 and Tiny1-x based products being a minor revolution in future thermal imaging. You get a lot of bang for your Buck !

Fraser

[Fraser]

Continuing the discussion of the Infiray P2 and P2 Pro…..

If you had such a compact thermal imaging device, what would you use it for ?

Uses that come to mind, in no particular order, are :

1. Home heating surveys of your home to seal air leaks and improve insulation in these times of increased fuel costs.
2. Wildlife and pet observation (I cannot resist thermal imaging my cats  )
3  PCB thermal analysis for electronics design and repair
4. Thermal analysis of a PC to check for hot spots due to poor air movement within the casing
5. Artistic photography … this camera is so small that it will not attract attention when out and about in public.
6. Automotive maintenance …. searching for faults that present a particular thermal signature. Such as warm fuses due to overload or unexpected current draw when a circuit is supposed to be unpowered.
7. Thermography experiments to learn more about thermal imaging and what can effect measurements.
8. Electric Solar panel inspection to check for poor connections or failing PV modules.
9. Monitoring the temperature of batteries as they are fast charged, looking for cell anomalies.
10. Monitoring the temperature of a PCB during a reflow operation.
11. Thermal astronomy ? Much would depend upon the availability of a suitable LWIR capable telescope.
12. Checking brake disk temperatures on a car to assess braking performance and potentially seized callipers.
13. Science experiments to teach children/adults about thermal energy
14. Veterinary care - observation of inflamed tissue with elevated temperatures
15. Potential Search and Rescue (SAR) operations (within the capabilities of the camera and lens system)
16. Thermal Bore-scope for inspecting inaccessible areas
17. Monitoring the input and output ports of house radiators to check central heating system balance etc.
18. Checking the thermal output of equipment that is in stand-by to see which are drawing significant power when “off”
19. Checking soldering iron barrel (oxidised) temperature (a thermocouple at the tip is better though)
20. Experiments with resistor wattages vs surface temperature and heat sink effectiveness in electronics
21. In a modified form…. Intruder detection using webcam motion detection software
22. Passive night vision using thermal signatures rather than traditional starlight or active IR illumination plus a night sight.
23. Plumbing - pipe blockage detection & location. Leaking underfloor heating water pipe detection and location.
24. Electric under floor heating inspection
25. Blood circulation checks on human limbs ( knowledge of techniques required). Cold “digits” may indicate circulatory issues in some circumstances, such as Raynaud’s Disease.
26. Illicit use of houses or rooms for growing unusual plant crops under artificial lighting and heating Local privacy laws apply !
27. Creating a thermal microscope, with a supplemental lens, for biology examination. For example plant thermal distribution whilst growing or Insect wing muscle thermal profiling. Basically examining “bugs” in the thermal domain 
28. FUN ! Use it for whatever makes you happy 

Any other suggestions ?

[tomasis]

good review. Pro2 is very interesting. I saw that P2 dropped in price, but the temperature limit is a bit low.

What degree limit do you need for electronics error searching?

[Fraser]

Next….. mounting options 

The P2 and P2 Pro are designed to plug into a mobile phone but such a deployment is not always the best for the task at hand. Some thoughts on alternative mounting options…….

1. A bracket holding the P2 camera to the rear of the mobile phone with a short umbilical cable for the data link
2. A combined “pistol grip” and bracket holding the P2 camera to the rear of the mobile phone with a short umbilical cable for the data link
3. A GoPro compatible mount to permit use of the many GoPro mounting options. A USB umbilical cable can separate camera from Phone/tablet
4. An articulated arm + P2 holder for bench working hands free. A USB umbilical cable can separate camera from phone/tablet.
5. A microscope type mount and holder for bench working hands free. A USB umbilical cable can separate camera from Phone/tablet
6. The combination of a small handheld holder and long USB umbilical cable to permit use of the camera in confined spaces separate from the bulky phone it tablet.
7. A holder that incorporates a standard tripod 1/4” x 20Tpi thread for use of photographic mounting options. A USB umbilical cable can separate camera from Phone/tablet
8. A protective casing for camera use in harsh environments. A thin Germanium window may be incorporated into the design.
9. A mount and lens adapter that permits supplemental lens use for thermal microscopy using reversed thermal camera lenses. (Specialist use)
10. A pole mount plus long USB umbilical cable to separate the camera from Phone/tablet. This enables use at heights for building inspection use.
11. Drone aircraft mounts (specialist use requiring a suitable Android host system)
12. Larger casing format, like a compact camera design, to make hand holding easier. A USB umbilical cable can separate camera from Phone/tablet or the phone can mount on the rear of the larger camera casing. Much like the FOTRIC 200 series cameras.

Many/all of these mounting options may be produced via 3D printing. There are already clip on adapters for the P2 in the public domain. Some of these clip on case designs could be adapter for different applications.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5420751

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5482343

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5339383


Any more ideas for mounting options ?

[Fraser]

Tomasis,

For general electronics I would say 120 Celsius is adequate. Anything getting hotter than that had better be designed to cope with high temperatures or it is going to degrade quickly. Many IC’s state 70C maximum long term operating temperature. Ceramic power resistors can operate at high temperatures of ~350C but how often will you come across those in daily life? In such a case, an electrically insulated thermocouple would likely solve the measurement challenge if the thermal camera could not.

Have a look at my suggested uses and see how many would likely see temperatures exceeding 120C. The P2 offers 170C which is good and the P2 Pro has the advantage of the low sensitivity mode providing measurement as high as you are ever likely to need at 550C maximum.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Tomasis,

Note that this is more of a P2 series discussion thread than a review. If I receive a P2 Pro I will produce a much more detailed review of it, as I did for the DYT CA-10 PCB analysis system.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Look at the housing RuneHansen created for his T3S dongle camera …..

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/thermal-imaging-windows-application-for-infiray-t2-t3-thermal-cameras/

Lovely design  Similar could be made for the P2 series if a more ‘box’ like design is needed for an application. It is so much easier to install a small camera into a larger enclosure than it is to reduce the size of a large camera to fit inside a smaller enclosure ! 

RuneHansen has also written a Windows application for some Infiray camera models. Maybe the P2/P2 Pro could be added to the compatibility list ?

Fraser

[Fraser]

So you are thinking about buying one of these tiny P2 series thermal dongle cameras but do not have a suitable phone or a phone that you want to use for such an activity, what are the options ?

The good news is that the Infiray P2 uses a USB C connector. This is a connector that is not orientation sensitive thanks to its design. This avoids the issue that some users had with mobile phones equipped with micro USB connectors that pointed the wrong way for the dongles use.

USB access is nothing to be scared of. If your chosen phone does not have a USB C port, buy one if the many compact adapters that are available or use an umbilical cable that also adapted a USC C connector to a Micro USB connector. If working with a phone that uses micro USB, be aware that accessories that plug into the micro USB port often need to activate the phones OTG Host mode using a OTG activation pin on the port. If using any form of adapter or cable with the phone, it should be one that supports OTG or the phone will not go into Host mode.

Owners of Apple products are out of luck as the Infiray P2 does not natively support iOS or Apple products…. But read on, all is not lost !

So you have a mobile phone that is either incompatible with the Infiray P2 series or you just do not want to use it with a thermal camera (side loading unapproved software issues for example) What are the options?

I faced this situation and found a very affordable solution that works well for me. I went on eBay and bought used phones that would meet my needs and some were very inexpensive as I will explain.

If you buy a used mobile phone on eBay, you need to make sure that it works enough to be used as a host fir a thermal camera dongle. If you see ones that do not switch on, have broken displays or are “sold as see”…. walk on ! If however you see a “Spares or Repair” phone that is perfect except for a faulty Phone SIM card port…. It is perfect as a Host to a dongle camera. Wi-Fi may be used for application downloads and file transfers. A USB cable may also be used to transfer image files etc. you likely do not need the phone call functionality for thermal imaging, so take advantage of that fact ! I bought phones with failed earpiece speakers, microphones and SIM card ports that were damaged through attempted use of a SIM card size converter. I also bought phones that were less popular (cheaper) because they were locked to a network. When buying a used phone, do make sure that it is not locked-out through incorrect password attempts or ant-theft countermeasures. Those phones are about as useful as a brick, and for good reason.

When buying a host phone for your dongle camera, do consider which models are best suited to your needs in terms of quality processor power, size, battery life and operating system support. Old Android phones with their older Operating Systems will eventually drop out of support and a modern dongle camera may not work with the older operating systems. If you have the option to buy a decent used phone that uses a Type C USB port, no adapters will be needed for direct on phone use 

I bought all my “Host” phones for less than £30 each, so do not over pay ! Remember what I said, a phone with a fault that only effects the phone cal, side of things, is an excellent candidate for a thermal camera host. It is basically an Android Tablet computer after all !

Talking about Android Tablet computers……

Remember that the Infiray P2 Series is compatible with Android devices…. That means you can use it with a nice large screen Android tablet computer. I have a few very nice rugged models that I can use and the smallest screen is 7” and the largest 12”  It may also be possible to use Android computers or their TV Box variants !

The Android App fir the P2 series is side loaded onto the host.

If we see decent Windows support by 3rd party software developers, it will open up the host options to include Desktop PC’s, Laptops and Windows Tablet PC’s.

[tomasis]

lol, I got convinced by Frasiers posts here so I withdraw the order of the uni-t camera and I order P2 series camera to keep my post relevant here. It is a P2 though.

Does Infiray sell P2 Pro Macro lens separately? It would be nice.

I got some ideas because extension of USB-C cable (why i haven't thought it before).

A 3d printed pistol grip with a holder for phone above the grip. Also, a holder for p2 series camera placed behind phone in the middle. So, in overall, it resembles a typical thermal camera.

[Fraser]

I understand that Infiray do sell the Macro lens separately but I saw a price of ~$70 so it might be better to just get a Pro model to start with or print one of the ZnSe holders for the P2 that are available on Thingiverse.

Which Uni-T camera were you going to buy ? Some of those Uni-T models are pretty good. The lower resolution ‘a’ versions use a Guide Sensmart TIMO core and are lower resolution than the P2.

Fraser

[tomasis]

It was UNI-T 260A/690A 200€ camera.

Good idea re 3d print for smaller ZnSe lens. What mm and diameter do suggest you?

I have a 3d program that I can build 3d print files with. It will be fun to make some prototypes.

[Fraser]

Ah yes, the UT690A  model. As we have previously discussed on the forum, the UT690A is capable of doing some useful PCB analysis work when combined with a close focus lens to get closer to the PCB. It is, however, close to the minimum useable resolution for such activities and, given the choice, I would elect to buy a higher resolution thermal camera like the P2, even if it meant buying a cheap used mobile phone and constructing a pistol grip holder for the phone/camera combination.

Technical spec comparison…..

Uni-T UT690A

Core: Guide Sensmart “TIMO”
Optical Resolution: 120 x 90
Pixel count : 10,800
Lens FOV: 38 Degrees Horizontal x 50 Degrees Vertical (in Portrait format)
Temperature measurement Range: -20C to +400C

Infiray P2 (Standard Model)

Core: Infiray Tiny1-x technology
Optical Resolution: 256 x 192
Pixel count: 49,152 pixels
Lens FOV : 56 Degrees horizontal x 42.2 Degrees Vertical (in Landscape format)
Temperature measurement range: -20C to +170C

As can be seen, the FOV figures are similar but the P2 has ~4.5 times the number of pixels covering the target area at any given distance. The greater number of pixels for the similar FOV is a significant advantage over the UT690A where PCB analysis or even home thermal survey work is concerned. The 256 x 192 pixel microbolometers are now what I consider “entry level” resolution and replaces 160 x 120 as “entry level” in my opinion. 80 x 60 pixels and 120 x 90 pixels are still better than nothing, but it takes 160 x 120 pixels before the thermal scene becomes easier to interpret without a visible light image overlay.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Some mounting options created for other dongle cameras that may stimulate thoughts for the P2 cameras 

[Fraser]

Mount examples Continued….

[Fraser]

For anyone interested in handle options to make a nice “pistol grip” format camera using a mobile phone and Dongle camera, here are some examples that are currently on the market. Lots of choice. I like the Digiclip with its built in SLR style grip and tripod mount on the bottom.

[Fraser]

Thanks to the modern trend of using smart phones for photography and video recording, there are many options for attaching a smart phone to a tripod or pistol grip handle. Choose one that suits your needs and budget ! The P2 is so compact that it woukd easily mount on the rear of the brackets with nothing more sophisticated than Velcro tape. A more sophisticated holder for the P2 could, of course, be designed and made. There is the obvious option to use thecP2 as intended and leave it attached directly to the USB socket at the end of the handle mounted phone.

A short OTG compatible cable between the phone and the camera will be required, but such are not hard to find.

Fraser

[Fraser]

If wishing to use a close-up lens for PCB work, a thermal camera dongle may be attached to an inexpensive microscope stand…….

[Fraser]

More microscope stands……

[Fraser]

Tomasis,

Regarding a close-up lens….. I recommend a 20mm diameter lens and suggest two focus distances ~100mm and ~50mm (two lenses and lens holders needed)

By using a 20mm diameter lens you use the central lens area and less of the outer, lower performance area.

The best choice of lens type would be a meniscus type rather than Bi-Convex or Plano-Convex, but such are not as common cheaply.

There are two qualities of ZnSe lens commonly available on eBay…. PVD and CVD. CVD is the better quality lens. The price difference is small in most cases so go for CVD if you can.

We have yet to test the Infiray macro lens on the P2 but that lens may well out-perform our simple Plano Convex ZnSe lenses as they are, after all, just repurposed CO2 Laser focus lenses not intended for thermal imaging applications. The AR coating is likely something more appropriate as well.

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

I found its smallness useful today - I was tracing a hot PCB track on a board with quite a lot of wiring in the way - the ability to plug the camera in via the ( supplied) USB-C extension cable & get close to the PCB was very handy

A feature I've not seen before is a "burn protection" mode, where it keeps the cal shutter closed if the scene is too hot.
   

[Fraser]

Thanks Mike,

That burn-in protection mode is a great idea. I am surprised that we have not seen this done on thermal cameras previously.

The little P2 Pro operating on the end of an extension cable sounds very useful, especially where you might wish to survey the inside of an equipment rack with the phone outside the rack at a comfortable viewing position. Hence my comment on a thermal borescope. We just need a decent thermal image and a compact head assembly. The P2 offers us both 

I will be honest and say that dongle type thermal cameras have not been my favourite format since owning the FLIR One G2, G3 and Seek Thermal Classic units. The affordable T2L and P2 are changing my opinion of dongle type thermal cameras though. Versatility is their great advantage over larger “all in one” type camera formats 

I am looking forward to your video review of the P2 Pro. I will be producing a written review with various tests and saved images and it will appear on this forum 

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Out of curiosity I tried the P2 Pro on an ancient 2016 Samsung J5 running Android 6, via a small christmas tree of adapters to get from USBC to mini-b
It does work, but framerate is rather low.

[Fraser]

Mike,

Interesting. I have a Motorola Moto G5 and a Samsung S5 to use with the camera. It will be interesting to see what frame rate I see. I am also interested in testing the P2 on a Windows platform but that may be at some time in the future as I am unsure whether any currently released 3rd party software supports the P2.

Thank you for sharing these initial snippets of news 

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Size compared to Seek compact pro

[Fraser]

I would describe that as “Dinky” 

What is the approximate focus distance for the add on “Macro” lens please Mike ? Hopefully it is 100mm or less.

Fraser

[Fraser]

It comes to something when you see the P2 and think it’s compact Type C USB connector is too large for its diminutive proportions 

[Fraser]

Hmmm, I wonder if anyone on the forum has a spare SEEK Thermal hard case to sell ? I am thinking that I could modify the foam insert to take the Infiray P2. Finding a hard case small enough for the P2 could prove challenging. Maybe a hard case designed to hold memory sticks would be an option ?

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

I would describe that as “Dinky” 

What is the approximate focus distance for the add on “Macro” lens please Mike ? Hopefully it is 100mm or less.

Fraser

Sharpest at about 25mm, at which point the FOV is about 35mm

[Fraser]

Interesting ! That is a lot closer than I was expecting. I suspect Infiray wanted to select a close-up lens focus distance that clearly shows modern 0201 and 01005 SMD components.

Many thanks for this useful information 

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hmmm, I wonder if anyone on the forum has a spare SEEK Thermal hard case to sell ? I am thinking that I could modify the foam insert to take the Infiray P2. Finding a hard case small enough for the P2 could prove challenging. Maybe a hard case designed to hold memory sticks would be an option ?

Fraser

Just had a look on ebay - memory card cases are a bit bit, closest I could immediately find was this hearing aid case, which is a similar outline to the Seek case but a bit thinner - still rather big though.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184538248278

[Fraser]

I would never have thought of a hearing aid case ! Good spot.

Yes the memory card cases are all a little too large for my taste. I will keep looking for a neat storage solution as I would hate to mislay the P2 or it’s macro lens

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Bear in mind you may want space for the extension cable.
I've not found any USBC extenders shorter than the 0.5m one they supply, and they tend to be a bit thick as they're mostly sold for fast charging

[Fraser]

I have come to the same conclusion regarding the case. I may go for the smallest pelican case clone that I can find or one of the hard cases sold for the FLIR One Gen 3

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have found a small memory card case that might be suitable for the P2 but not sure if there will be room for the cable. I would need to modify the padded insert to take the camera.

I might get one as it looks quite neat.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/144383590993?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=_KDWNbNDR-K&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=BgpdXaaLSkK&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Another supplier who has different models for various memory cards. I would likely make my own insert from sealed cell high density foam.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265787601290?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4ZlsmZuPTOS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=BgpdXaaLSkK&var=565572965281&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Fraser

[tomasis]

(I had re-post as I did it in wrong thread)

Thanks Fraser, good job with the pictures. It gives me some idea what to design. Looks like pistol grip is worth to buy instead of print.

I like the idea of modular case you attach either on tripod or microscope stand. Sort of Gopro case but with tripod mount female-screw.

The USB connection that sticks outs is fragile, so the case helps, also it would support ZnSe lens attachment.

[Gareth79]

Is the P2 and P2 Pro designed for continuous use? I know similar modules are used in CCTV etc. but is the heatsinking etc. sufficient on USB devices for very long term use? Perhaps let's assume not in direct sunlight etc

[mikeselectricstuff]

Is the P2 and P2 Pro designed for continuous use? I know similar modules are used in CCTV etc. but is the heatsinking etc. sufficient on USB devices for very long term use? Perhaps let's assume not in direct sunlight etc

The P2 Pro does not get noticeably warm

[Qw3rtzuiop]

Im using the p2 since a few months and ive designed a mount for a macro lens too:
https://www.printables.com/model/281246-infisenseinfiray-p2-thermal-camera-macro-lens-hold

I can recommend buying an USB-C extension cable to reach in between stacks of pcbs or other hard to reach places.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I have found a small memory card case that might be suitable for the P2 but not sure if there will be room for the cable. I would need to modify the padded insert to take the camera.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265787601290?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=4ZlsmZuPTOS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=BgpdXaaLSkK&var=565572965281&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Quick hack of the foam inserts from the original Infray boxes - everything fits.  Even the right colour!

[Fraser]

Brilliant ! Thanks Mike. I will order one for my P2 Pro 

My P2 Pro will be delivered to me on Tuesday  Testing and a written review will follow.

Mike, can you see how the P2 metal case is held together ? Disassembly might take some thought if no screws are used. I no longer own a Faxitron MX-20 so cannot X-Ray my unit.

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Mike, can you see how the P2 metal case is held together ? Disassembly might take some thought if no screws are used. I no longer own a Faxitron MX-20 so cannot X-Ray my unit.

Hard to see much on x-ray but no sign of screws.
A quick attack with a scalpel blade on the seam shows that it's glued.
Feels like there's a flex joining the two halves & at least one side is screwed into the casing.
I will take it further apart later, but don't want to risk killing it until I've done a review video!

[Fraser]

Thanks Mike 

Looks like a standard Tiny-1b hiding in there 

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

Something really odd happens in "High quality" image mode ( vs. wide-range) with a hot target ( soldering iron) .
Tried putting on YT but it turned it into a  "short" that wouldn't play, so attached as a zipped MP4

[Fraser]

Sadly I only have my iPad at the moment so cannot play the ZIP file.

This sounds interesting though 

[gabiz_ro]

Looks like a reflection inside lens or sensor-lens.

[Fraser]

Mike,

My iPad managed to extract and play the file 

That mosaic patterning on the soldering iron barrel is unusual. I will look into that

Fraser

[Bill W]

Looks to be overloading the sensor data range.  It does not have the necessary dynamic range for all possible pixel gains and offsets.

At least the overloads do not turn black like a Boson (or at least the early ones)

Bill

[mikeselectricstuff]

Thanks Mike 

Looks like a standard Tiny-1b hiding in there 

Fraser

Yes, with the flex curling round to a second PCB, which links to the USB connector via a second flex cable

[thermalengineer]

Fraser, thanks for your informative introduction to InfiRay and their products. 

As an engineer, my job is to do PCB thermal analysis for electronics design and repair, thermal imaging technology has helped me a lot  to promote the efficiency of my work. Apart from the applications in work, thermal imager is a good partner in my daily life as well， mainly for home inspection and automotive repair.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hello Mike, could you show more photos and videos of P2 Pro

Will be doing this when I get time

[chemary]

I've got a P2 before and it seems P2 Pro is much better than P2 ? Only the lens? Or maybe the software ?

I'm also curious about that I thought they both have the same sensor and just cut the functionality via firmware, anybody has more info?

[Fraser]

My P2 Pro review unit will arrive tomorrow (direct from Infiray) and I have managed to source a Samsung A8 (2018) phone to test it on. The 2018 model A8 should have plenty of processing power for the image processing etc.

Once I have familiarised myself with the P2 Pro and it’s software I will post a review on this forum. It should not take too long to write.

Fraser

[thetan76]

to Fraser,
Please check the shortest distance where the picture will  be crisp and clear with the macro lens and without one. And what will be the longest distance with the macro lens attached.

[Fraser]

I will include this in the testing but Mike has indicated that the macro focus distance is around 25mm and that will have quite a small depth of field. I will test the “with and without” macro lens focus distances though. I will also be interested to see whether a Plano Convex or Meniscus lens is used. The material used for the macro lens is likely moulded IR transmissive Chalcogenide Glass

Fraser

[Fraser]

My P2 Pro and Macro lens have just arrived. I love its diminutive size and the very nice design. The Macro lens looks to be either a thick IR transmissive Chalcogenide Glass Meniscus lens or possibly even a doublet.

I will be writing a comprehensive review on the P2 Pro over the coming days 

My unit came direct from Yantai IRAY Technology Co. Ltd.

In one of the attached pictures I placed a CR2032 lithium cell along side the P2 Pro as a size reference (it is 20mm diameter)... the P2 Pro is a tiny dongle format camera.

Fraser

[Gareth79]

Oh wow, they definitely put some effort into minimising the size! Crazy stuff.

[tomasis]

i received p2. what PC apps do you recommend? Android app works ok.

If you struggle find an app for P2/Pro, google "night vision go apk" and install it manually. No such app is available in Play Store.

[Fraser]

I have not tried any PC software on the P2 yet but did load the Bluestacks 5 Android emulator software last night to see if that will work. Not tested it with the camera yet.

The official Android software for the P2 Pro is “P2 Pro” and this is available in the Google Play Store. I think Nightvision Go is for the P2 and it may not support the higher temperature range. I found night vision pro in the Google Play store Using my Samsung Galaxy A8. I believe Android 9 or above is the recommended host software. I will need to check Nightvision Go to see if it differs to P2 Pro in any way.

Fraser

[tomasis]

ok, Apk "night vision go" is same as P2 Pro. Once the app is installed then the title P2 Pro appears in my phone.

Strangely, I cannot find P2 Pro in Google Play store. The same thing happened with the other Chinese devices (BMS and such).


P2 works fine with P2 Pro app. I tested it up to 200 degrees until Burnt image protection kicks in.

[Fraser]

That is the one 

Could it be that Google Play store only shows Apps for which a particular phone is adequately specified ? That is, phones that are running Android 9 or later ?

The Chinese writing was a little disconcerting when I found the P2 Pro APP as I incorrectly thought the App might be in the Chinese language (Mandarin). The Infiray web site provides a direct download link got the App as well so side loading is possible.

Mike has stated that his older Samsung Galaxy J5 (Android-6 2016) phone ran the APP but the frame rate was impacted by the phones lack of processing power. This is why I bought used (Circa 2018) Samsung Galaxy A8 and S9+ phones in order to give the P2 Pro camera a fair review with a decent mobile phone host. The S9+ has a powerful processor set  Bought used, these Circa 2018 phones are very reasonably priced, especially if they have a SIM card port error or other minor fault.

The P2 Pro suffers no frame rate issues, that I can see, during a brief test on the Galaxy A8 or S9+. The A8 is running Android 9 (Pie) and the S9+ is running Android 10 (Q).

Fraser

[tomasis]

I use Samsung S21 and Android 12 version. The European version.

I googled in Play store by "infisense" and found "night vision go" but it is an old app with the version 6.3. Once installed, it is titled "InfiRayGo". It doesnt work on my phone.

P2 Pro version is 1.05. It looks same as above but cleaner and more modern layout.

It probably has to do with Android versions. Some dont support newer or outdated apps.

[EEVblog]

Fraser, thanks for your informative introduction to InfiRay and their products. 

As an engineer, my job is to do PCB thermal analysis for electronics design and repair, thermal imaging technology has helped me a lot  to promote the efficiency of my work. Apart from the applications in work, thermal imager is a good partner in my daily life as well， mainly for home inspection and automotive repair.

WARNING
ThermalEngineer is a astrotrufing employee of Infiray.
There are many astroturfing infiniray accounts on here it seems, they have long history of it.
Please report if you see one.
In fact I'm tempted to lock all Infiray threads and ban new ones.

[Fraser]

I saw one account that was clearly someone with a vested interest in Infiray products, but Thermalengineer was not him.

It is a pity as the Infiray products are actually very good and they need not resort to such practices to promote their products. I am more than happy to test their offerings and provide honest, impartial, reviews. That is the way forward for Infiray, not “Astroturfing”. It is not like the infamous Mu thermal camera fiasco, and some other a Kickstarter campaigns where a product was hyped but never delivered or is substandard. Infiray actually provide a real working product to the marketplace.

P.S. I learnt a new word and it’s meaning today “Astroturfing” 

Fraser

[EEVblog]

I saw one account that was clearly someone with a vested interest in Infiray products, but Thermalengineer was not him.

ThermalEnigneer is actually "Sally" from the Infiray marketing team, and was dumb enough to use the email address @iraytek.com in her profile and the same email they have used to contact me about advertising which I told them to bugger off because they have used atsroturfed accounts before.
There are also several others from that and related domains. Plus astroturfing gmail accounts.

[Fraser]

For anyone interested in which mobile phones I will be trying with the P2 Pro, here is the final list

Samsung Galaxy S5 Circa 2014 - Android 6 (Marshmallow) / UI Touchwiz
Samsung Galaxy A6 Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) /  One UI 2.0
Samsung Galaxy A8 Circa 2018 - Android 9 (Pie) / One UI 1.0
Samsung Galaxy S9+ Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) / One UI 2.5     

The S5 and A6 both use micro USB I/O and the A8 and S9+ both use USB Type C

[cejoba]

I'm glad the big boss finally shows.

In fact I'm tempted to lock all Infiray threads and ban new ones.

Please do this! They are polluting our forum.

[Fraser]

Wow, that would fly in the face of everything I thought this forum stood for !

Dave, if you go so far as to lock and ban all threads relating to Infiray that appears to be Censorship of the worst kind. Please do not do this ! I have seen nothing done or said by Infiray that would make me consider them truly harmful to this forum. There are many posters who reduce the signal to noise ratio on this forum… do we ban them all for that ? I love this forum and the thermal imaging area of it. Blatant Censorship will drive me away though.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Not wanting to put Dave “on the spot” but am I still welcome to post my impartial review of the Infiray P2 Pro ? I consider that review of benefit to the forum membership. If you ban me posting such an impartial technical and helpful review I will comply, but a very important part of this forum will die that day.

Fraser

[cejoba]

Fraser: I think Dave and us won't dislike technical reviews of any product, especacially from a reliable member like you. We all want this world's largest thermal imaging forum better!

Dave: Thanks for locking the "CleanUnbox" thread. That's some really fast response from my report. No tolerance for those scumbags! 
We need an awesome mod like you, this sanitizing should happen earlier!

[Fraser]

I see that “Rambo Sonny” has been banned. He made no secret of his affiliation with Infiray and was running a reviewer giveaway of 5 Infiray P2 Pro cameras in a thread that is now locked. The reviewer selection was to be tomorrow. I presume there is some connection between Rambo Sonny and the members accused of Astroturfing ? Why else would he deserve a ban. Is it permanent or just a warning ban as given to those who break the rules ?

Today is becoming surreal for me…..

First the UK chancellor rushes back to the UK for urgent budget discussions…. Only to get asked to resign, then it all seems to have kicked off here regarding Infiray and their presence on this forum ! I must have missed something as I have never considered Infiray a “Pest”.

For those unaware, Infiray are one of the manufacturers in Asia who have made significant progress in the realm of affordable thermal imaging equipment. The Pandemic brought great investment and technical advances in compact, affordable thermal imaging cores and cameras. Infiray, Guide Sensmart, Dahua and Hikvision are all major players in the new world of affordable thermal imaging technology…..and we have just seen the major player that is Infiray/IRAY effectively banned from participation on the largest, most technical, thermal imaging forum in the World 
Something seems very “off” with this whole situation to me and I am going off-line to avoid a saying something that I may regret later !

What a crap day and there will be 5 forum members not getting a P2 Pro to review thanks to the thread being locked and the OP being banned. I already have my P2 Pro to review but it remains to be seen whether the new draconian anti-Infiray attitude on this forum will prevent me sharing my findings with the forum membership.

Mountain out of a mole hill comes to mind. Not happy

Fraser

[Fraser]

I just reported my own post to the moderators so hopefully further comment will be forthcoming from Dave on the Infiray front and EEVBlog policy pertaining to reviews of their products.

[tomasis]

I dont think it is that bad. Only two threads are locked.

I saw that "thermalengineer" did bring 5-6 threads at once (incl. old threads that are almost 1 year old or more).

It is a silent advertising, I'd say. To see the topic of Infiray in 5-6 first threads is odd.

The thread here is not locked which is a good thing. It is easier for other users to find info in a single thread instead of several threads splattered.

[Fraser]

Tomasis,

It is the “threat” against new Infiray related posts that I found most worrying. Not what I expect to see in an open society. I hope I have just misunderstood what Dave was meaning by his comment regarding new Infiray posts. It does need some clarification please.

Fraser

[thetan76]

Dear Fraser, please do not leave the forum. We need your reviews! Forget about all that unpleasant stuff - there are so many good things around.

[tomasis]

Fraser, it doesn't hurt to post a review. Then we will see what happens.

[Fraser]

My reviews take a lot of time and effort to produce. If I cannot post it here then there is no point spending time on it. I will just send the P2 Pro review sample camera back to Infiray and take the financial hit on the phones and other bits that I bought for the review.

Fraser

[tomasis]

How about a Youtube video? You have a lot of knowledge to share!  I would follow you there.

A link to your blog in your signature?

[Fraser]

I am a relative “Old timer” at 55 years of age so You Tube video creation is not really in my realm of activities. I tend to like studying reviews, associated still images and maybe the odd MP4 video capture. Sometimes You Tube makes absorption of fine details harder for me and if there are no high resolution still images it can be harder to study imaging performance. This is what I said to Infiray when I discussed reviewing their camera with them. They seem to agree that I still have something to offer via a written review that contains lots of nice still images. I can still add video captures to show moving image performance as well

If I were to be ‘forced’ off this forum I would likely do as Bill_W did and create a specialist forum of my own but I really do not want to go down that path unless forced to. This is normally a friendly place to chat about all things thermal imaging related. Outside this corner of the forum I have recently witnessed some unpleasantries relating to the Test Equipment Anonymous thread and other areas of the forum seem to be getting less friendly than I remember from past visits to them. Could the ‘storm’ outside have somehow found its way into our quiet forum area and Infiray have taken the ‘hit’ as they were in the firing line.

I may well be over blowing the incident in my mind, but today I saw, what I consider to be, an aggressive over reaction to a situation by a man I respect. That kinda shocked me. It is his forum though and he can do as he likes with it. Words like “infested” relating to Thermalengineer and Rambo Sonny posts in one thread  did seem a little extreme though ! Oh well life goes on. We shall see what tomorrow brings and I will go back to more important matters 

Fraser

[chemary]

I have seen a new thermal imager https://www.topdon.com/products/TC001 with similar specs and cheaper than Infiray P2 Pro as seen here https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TOPDON-TC001-Thermography-Mobile-Phone-Thermal_1600574245000.html . There is very little information and all reviews I could find are produced by the own company or Youtube videos that also seem sponsored by the brand. The thing is I decompiled the APK and I found libraries from Infisense so probably they use Infiray Core, it also contains what it seems a firmware file called P2-256-V3.03-20220402.bin and the P2 reference made me think if is some sort of rebrand of the same thermal imager. What do you think?

[Fraser]

The P2 is “only” a cased version of the Infiray Tiny1-b. Manufacturers of thermal camera dongles have a limited choice of cores to use in these units. The main miniature cores coming out of China are from Infiray (S0 and Tiny1-x) and Guide Sensmart (TIMO).

The Topdon could easily be using either the Tiny1-x or TIMO 256. You have found references to Infisense in the app so the Tiny1-x core looks to be the most likely candidate for the core. I will have to try Topdon software with the P2 Pro

Fraser

[tomasis]

Fraser, I understand. The Web is so large. You will find a way to make some share somehow. 


Chemary, it looks same. Even the firmware. P2 Pro latest version is V3.05 Topdon is a good brand. I have heard about it from car repair shops.

[Fraser]

Topdon also do a Windows PC program …. It will be great if it works with the P2 Pro 

I need to find time tonight to test this

Fraser

[Fraser]

No joy on the Topdon Windows Software yet. I will need to look at this further though.

Fraser

[Fraser]

No joy on using Windows BlueStack 5 Android emulator with the P2 Pro App either

I need to look into Windows drivers etc but certainly not 'Plug & Play' on a windows PC at the moment.

Fraser

[thetan76]

It looks like Topdon Tc001 has smaller lens.

[gabiz_ro]

I take a look at TCView
Looks like install libusbK for device VID_0BDA&PID_5830 but that HW ID seems to be of some Realtek camera.
Take a look in device manager maybe windows ignore libusbK driver and use default camera drivers.

[Fraser]

Thetan76,

The Topdon does not have a lens protection window.

Looking at the Topdon camera and then at the Tiny1-b core that is within the P2 Pro, the lenses appear to be of similar size.

The Topdon camera appears very large if the small size of Tiny1-x is considered.

Fraser

[thetan76]

Well, even if the hard ware of Topdon is the same its firmware could be different.

[thetan76]

By the way, what is the P2 Pro lens diameter?

[Fraser]

Part of the Tiny1-c and Topson .inf files for interest. Note the difference between VID and PID entries.

Tiny1-c

; Module Name: Tiny1C.inf
; Description: Installation inf for Tiny1C device.
;
; THIS CODE AND INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
; KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE
; IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND/OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
; PURPOSE.

[Strings]
DeviceName = "Tiny1C"
VendorName = "Realtek Semiconductor Corp."
SourceName = "Tiny1C Install Disk"
DeviceID   = "VID_0BDA&PID_5840"
DeviceGUID = "{31F311E2-8739-E459-AFB8-4FA4C7A71DAB}"

[Version]
Signature   = "$Windows NT$"
Class       = "libusbK Usb Devices"
ClassGuid   = {ECFB0CFD-74C4-4f52-BBF7-343461CD72AC}
Provider    = "libusbK"
CatalogFile = Tiny1C.cat
DriverVer   = 04/28/2014, 3.0.7.0
DriverPackageDisplayName = "Tiny1C"

; ============== Class section ==================
[ClassInstall32]
Addreg = LUsbK_Class_AddReg

[LUsbK_Class_AddReg]
HKR,,,0,"libusbK Usb Devices"
HKR,,Icon,,-20

The Topdon TC001

; Module Name: TC001.inf
; Description: Installation inf for Infiray Falcon001 5830 device.
;
; THIS CODE AND INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY
; KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE
; IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND/OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
; PURPOSE.

[Strings]
DeviceName = "TC001"
VendorName = "TOPDON TECHNOLOGY Co.,Ltd."
SourceName = "TC001 Install Disk"
DeviceID   = "VID_0BDA&PID_5830"
DeviceGUID = "{1B280601-7F68-5BF3-07CA-DC822CCACC26}"

[Version]
Signature   = "$Windows NT$"
Class       = "TC Usb Devices"
ClassGuid   = {ECFB0CFD-74C4-4f52-BBF7-343461CD72AC}
Provider    = "TOPDON"
CatalogFile = TC001.cat
DriverVer   = 04/28/2014, 3.0.7.0
DriverPackageDisplayName = "TC001"

; ============== Class section ==================
[ClassInstall32]
Addreg = LUsbK_Class_AddReg

[LUsbK_Class_AddReg]
HKR,,,0,"TC Usb Devices"
HKR,,Icon,,-20

[Fraser]

Thetan76,

No need for different firmware. The Tiny1-x series is a fully formed USB camera solution and an OEM just needs to use ID codes in the core to prevent use of their software on other Tiny1-x core based cameras. This is done on the S0 core and its associated software that I have. The OEM can even limit which variant of an Infiray core the host software will work with. This helps OEM's to offer differing products with different capabilities that use the same core hardware and different host software.

Fraser

[thetan76]

Ok, what about Linux users?

[Fraser]

I do not represent Infiray so cannot comment on future Linux support. As far as I am aware the P2 Pro is currently an Android only product.

Regarding the P2 lens, the following specifications are given by Infiray:

Focal Length : 3.2mm
Aperture : F1.1
FOV : 56 Degrees x 42.2mm Degrees

Fraser

[thetan76]

So, according to the data the lens is 3.5 mm. It is really small though.

[Fraser]

P2 resolution = 256 x 192 pixels. Pixel size = 12um

256 x 12um = 3072um
192 x 12um = 2304um

So the Microbolometer is also very small !   

[chemary]

Fraser have you tried the Android application on a real device? I have searched on the apk the device ids from windows drivers and it contains an XML (com.topdon.tc001/res/xml/ir_device_filter.xml) with references to both devices, so maybe the Topdon application can "see" the Infiray P2

Code: [Select]

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<resources>
    <usb-device product-id="0x00005840" vendor-id="0x00000BDA" />
    <usb-device product-id="0x00005830" vendor-id="0x00000BDA" />
</resources>

[Fraser]

Chemart,

Thank you  I have not tried the Topdon Android App with the P2, but will do so tomorrow.

I was hoping for an easy “win” on the a windows software front as such would make the P2 Pro more user friendly when mounted on a desk stand as PCB analyzer.

More from me when I find some spare time. I need to start on my review of the standard P2 Pro configuration. I managed to get it working on all four of my Galaxy phones. It even seems to run well on the S5, which is good To use it with phones equipped with a micro USB port, it is important to find an adapter that is truly OTG compatible. Many of mine were not ! Once I found an OTG compliant Micro USB to C type adapter, all was well 

Fraser

[EEVblog]

Wow, that would fly in the face of everything I thought this forum stood for !
Dave, if you go so far as to lock and ban all threads relating to Infiray that appears to be Censorship of the worst kind. Please do not do this ! I have seen nothing done or said by Infiray that would make me consider them truly harmful to this forum. There are many posters who reduce the signal to noise ratio on this forum… do we ban them all for that ? I love this forum and the thermal imaging area of it. Blatant Censorship will drive me away though.

As posted in the other thread:
Astroturfing will not be tolerated on this forum.
Infiray have created mant FAKE accounts and pretended to be users giving reviews and comments and asking questions etc.
Do you seriously think I shoud allow this because they are giving away free cameras for review?

[EEVblog]

It is the “threat” against new Infiray related posts that I found most worrying. Not what I expect to see in an open society. I hope I have just misunderstood what Dave was meaning by his comment regarding new Infiray posts. It does need some clarification please.

I will NOT go ahead with banning Infiray threads on this forum, I just said that thier actions made me think about doing it. Astroturfing really pisses me off and is not tolerated on this forum.
Feel free to create new Infiray threads and posts, but I will be cracking down and banning every post and account that is an astrofurf.
Infiray have been warned before and have oversteeped the boundries, their employees and paid shills are not welcome here.

They offered me money to advertise in this forum and I turned them down because astroturfing disgusts me. I will not take their money and they are banned.

[EEVblog]

I see that “Rambo Sonny” has been banned. He made no secret of his affiliation with Infiray and was running a reviewer giveaway of 5 Infiray P2 Pro cameras in a thread that is now locked. The reviewer selection was to be tomorrow. I presume there is some connection between Rambo Sonny and the members accused of Astroturfing ? Why else would he deserve a ban. Is it permanent or just a warning ban as given to those who break the rules ?

"RamboSonny" was hiding ehind a @qq.com email address, did not declare his affiliation, and posted classic astroturfing posts like "I heard that Infiray released..." etc.

[Fraser]

Thank you for the clarification

[Vipitis]

I kinda mentioned it in my "what do you want this forum to be". But from only skimming across some of the threads there has been at least 3 if not more accounts that acted extremely sketchy while clearly not being impartial users. If they are employees, the marketing/sales team, hired shills or third party resellers that profit of selling through their stores or distributing their *software* in private (Discord) communities - I don't know. But it clearly wasn't declared and that seems strongly disingenuous and as far as I remember against the rules.

Without having the admin tools or writing down notes, you have to take any account that says something positive about a certain product or brand for a potential trap. So be careful what you even contribute yourself.

I am not against companies participating in this forum or even talking again their own products. But it shouldn't be in this form of faking to be an interested member. The whole giveaway story could have easily ended in 5 people 'winning' that actually are their own people. And the account saying their already have got units to test could be part of their scheme as well. While they likely hand out honest review samples, they also clearly engaged in wrongful conduct, so why trust them. Especially if they try and circumvent being declined.

"It's easier to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission" is a guiding stance in said jokingly in the filmmaking industry. But in this case it sounds like they asked for permission, got turned down and then lied and misrepresented themselves in an coordinated effort to steer public opinion.

So yeah, what are the ethics in tech journalism and how can it be done better? Recent discussion I listened to on the topic: https://youtu.be/eBiTXzgAbgM

[bostwickenator]

Lawl I should have read this before replying to the message on the thread I started. I'm now caught up on the situation. One point of actual interest though Fraser the non pro version of the device works in VLC on windows, mac, linux without having to do anything. It would be interesting if they were using UVC and now aren't they'd need to rewrite a lot of things. Are you sure it doesn't work as a simple webcam?

[thetan76]

Guys, please stop writing stuff that is not related to the topic.

[Fraser]

Bostwickenator,

I will investigate the Webcam possibility as I would expect the P2 Pro to behave the same as the P2. The difference in the core is only the enablement of Range 2 (low sensitivity mode) for the higher temperature measurement capability.

Fraser

[tomasis]

Topdon Android app TC001 works with P2

Tried Topdon Windows program. It doesnt work but I think that it will work with some modifications. Im searching for Topdon drivers extracted in Windows so I can force install the P2.

P2 works as USB camera in Windows 11. Not great quality though. It can be shown in VLC or whatever.

[Fraser]

Tomasis,

I have the Tiny1-c Windows SDK with the driver files if that is of interest to you for Topdon software modifications.

Fraser

[tomasis]

Fraser,

itd be interesting with those drivers. I hope the Topdon aapp recognizes that.

[Fraser]

PM sent with link to my Google drive file repository.

[Fraser]

Some investigation of the Victor 328 software App may also be interesting. That camera will likely contain a Tiny1-c or a Guide Sensmart TIMO core

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/victor-328-mobile-thermal-camera-for-android-phone/

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004447572982.html

If the P2 can use other OEMs software it would increase its versatility 

Fraser

[Fraser]

The Uni-T UTi-260M looks like a possible P2 ‘clone’ as well. There are camera dongles coming onto the market that appear to be an Infiray Tiny1-x core integrated into various different housings. If we can work out how the software is “locked” to a particular brand, it may mean we can use different/better Apps and PC software with our P2 cameras 

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005004648984069.html

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005004583783487.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.19.304470d06ysht1&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.267768.0&scm_id=1007.40000.267768.0&scm-url=1007.40000.267768.0&pvid=8e4fe1d6-ac6e-4397-8396-74c17560486d&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.267768.0,pvid:8e4fe1d6-ac6e-4397-8396-74c17560486d,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238113%23661&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030082956252%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21GBP%21414.76%21199.08%21%21%21%21%21%40211b5e2116658238557138444e433d%2112000030082956252%21rec

Fraser

[Fraser]

The Noyafa NF-586 looks like a potential Infiray cored camera. Sadly nothing useful in terms of Windows or other interesting software though.

https://store.noyafa.com/products/noyafa-nf-586-infrared-thermal-imager-camera

Fraser

[Fraser]

If wanting to use the P2 with an umbilical cable it can be handy to reorientate the cable exit from the camera. Thankfully there are all manner of Type C adapters available on eBay. I bought a 180 Degree adapter to make the extension umbilical cable pass across the rear of the camera rather than sticking out the top.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Type-C-Male-to-Female-Upward-Downward-Angled-USB-C-Adaptor/234246382443?pageci=bb277f37-bc0a-4a3a-acf3-51b1c7eab4c5&redirect=mobile

[tomasis]

Fraser, thanks for the SDK file.

Now P2 works perfectly with Topdon Windows program.

In Windows Device Manager you find TinyC under the folder "libusbK Usb devices".

[tomasis]

Itd be cool if we could use a program that use "image enhancement" technology in real time. Sharpen up the image, for example.

P2 Pro Android app has a feature "image optimizer". The image looks sharper with P2 Pro compared to the Windows program. I tested minimum distance which seems to be 20 cm at least.

Ive seen old movies from 1920 that has been improved with the kind of AI technology. It looks impressive.

[Fraser]

Hi Tomasis,

So did you just load the Tiny1-c driver and directed windows to find it with the camera connected ? We’re any other changes needed for the Topdon software to recognise the P2 ?

Great work 

Fraser

[tomasis]

Thanks, simply click "Install Drivers.exe" in the folder "Tiny1c driver windows10". It'd install and extract another folder that looks similar to Topdon drivers. I dont remember exactly but you will see that it installs itself.

Right mouse click on the Tiny1C.inf file then click "Install" in the list if it is needed. Alternatively, manually add a new device by selecting the same Tiny1C.inf.

[Fraser]

What appears to be another Dongle camera using the Tiny1-x core

The Lodestar L2

https://www.tomtop.com/p-e21658.html

https://offpriceshop.com/product/lodestar-l2-usb-ir-thermal-imager-256x192-resolution-20170c-mobile-phone-type-c-plug-and-play-industrial-inspection-mini-infrared-camera-with-temperature-alarm-compatible-with-android

Hopefully the popularity of the Tiny1-x cores will lead to some decent software being developed for it by OEM's 

Fraser

[chemary]

I was thinking if it's possible to convert the P2 into P2 Pro burning the firmware of one into the other, for instance the Topdon Android application contained 2 firmware files and probably it could also be extracted from other apps, if you can modify the application to make it start the burning or if the SDK contain the software to update the firmware? Is just an hypothesis and I don't own any of this cameras to try, maybe the modules have some firmware signature to avoid burning the firmware of other model.

[EEVblog]

They just don't stop. Another Infiray astroturfing account 

[Fraser]

Dave,

Not impressed that they used the Ukrainian flag as their home. I presume in an effort to use the respect that this flag carries with it.

I tried to write to Rambo Sonny to discuss Infiray’s activities on this forum but sadly he had been banned by the time I tried to send it. I have contacted Infiray Sales in an effort to re-establish contact with Rambo Sonny and give him some words of advice on not spamming or Astroturfing forums.

The position I am currently in is that Rambo Sonny sent me a P2 Pro to review. I agreed to do a review provided it was unbiased and honest. That is still my intention as I consider it important that I complete the review to assist readers of this forum.

Infiray appear to be a very aggressive marketer of their products. I previously worked with Diane Yang Technology and they were far more respectful of this forum in their posting habits. I am left disappointed by this whole situation as it is so unnecessary.

The Astroturfing posts stand out by their lack of useful content and “one liners”. Not a very effective marketing strategy.

Thanks for highlighting the latest Astroturfing offence Dave. That use of the Ukrainian flag as the home country is really annoying me ! Have they no respect ?

Fraser

[Fraser]

Dave L Jones,

I apologise to you for criticising your stance on Infiray. I saw it as Censorship if we are not permitted to discuss or review Infiray products, and that is still my stance, but I do not condone or support the “Astroturfing” that Infiray are inflicting on this forum. The posts are so obvious as to be laughable and that was why I was not particularly fussed about them previously.

For me, the use of the respected and very emotive Ukrainian flag in their latest Astroturf attempt disgusts me as they were using it as some sort of ‘shield’ to hide behind. I was wrong about Infiray and you were right. Sorry I doubted you.

I will still produce my review of the P2 Pro and it will be totally honest and unbiased. I owe Infiray nothing. The reviews priority in my work calendar has slipped after todays events.

All the Best

Fraser

[EEVblog]

I tried to write to Rambo Sonny to discuss Infiray’s activities on this forum but sadly he had been banned by the time I tried to send it. I have contacted Infiray Sales in an effort to re-establish contact with Rambo Sonny and give him some words of advice on not spamming or Astroturfing forums.

FYI, "Rambo Sonny" is actually a woman called "Sally" and she is the "Overseas Brand Manager" at Infiray.
They know what they are doing and it is quite standard business practice for Chinese companies.
Literally dozens and dozens of Chinese PCB companies have tried the same thing on the forum.

[Giuss]

So his giveaway of five P2 cameras was a fake?

[chemary]

Maybe we can create a topic for discussing “Astroturfing” and leave this topic for discussion about the Infiray P2 itself, we are interleaving topics and is getting difficult to follow or extract information about the Infiray P2 product that was the initial intention of this topic.

[Fraser]

Giuss,

We will never know 


I contacted Infiray directly and offered to review their P2 Pro. Rambo Sonny contacted me and arranged to send a review unit to me. The unit arrived and will be reviewed. I suspect Infiray were casting their net to see which "influencers" were interested in reviewing their product. I was asked if I had a Youtube presence. I do not, but they still sent me a sample camera. I have no reason to believe the offer of review samples was fake as Infiray seem to have scattered review sample far and wide across the internet. Sadly, with what has happened in recent days on this forum, I doubt anyone who showed interest in reviewing the P2 Pro in that review thread will receive a sample to test.

I am an honourable person though and I agreed to review the P2 Pro in an unbiased and honest review. That will happen, though it has slipped down my priority list a little as i have many draws on my time at the moment, some of them involving me earning a living !

I am really sorry that Infiray have used these Astroturfing techniques on this forum. They would have been a good company to have present on the forum and they would have benefitted from the significant technical knowledge present here. All that has gone now that the Astroturfing debacle has occurred. A case of "do not cr*p in your own nest" eh 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Chemary,

Sorry of the recent posts in this thread have caused confusion.

This thread is about both Infiray and their new P2 Pro camera. The matter of Infirays behaviour on this forum, and in general, is therefore "on-topic" as it threatened our ability to discuss Infiray products here

Thankfully that matter is now over so we can go back to discussing the P2 Pro.

Be aware that the EEVBlog Forum is very relaxed place to 'meet' and we do not normally mind a little drifting off topic so long as the discussion is useful to readers of the thread and not too far off base. It seems to work Ok for most 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Back on the topic of the P2 Pro....

I ordered a simple microscope stand for my P2 Pro as that will ease its use in PCB analysis activities. Now I do not need the P2 Pro for such work as I own a DYT CA-10 and the FLIR ETS320 but I am interested in how the P2 Pro performs in that role when mounted on a stable platform.

The microscope stand I bought cost £18.99 from Amazon and I am pleasantly surprised with what arrived today. Let me first say that the stand is made for those torpedo shaped digital microscopes and is built down to an affordable price ! That said, the whole microscope stand is made from aluminium, except for the vertical movement brake and tips of the microscope retaining screws that are nylon. I was surprised to not see cheap plastic used for the vertical adjustment knobs and the locking nut at the columns base. It is better than I expected for less than £20 
The vertical movement is smooth on my stand and the nylon brake is effective at setting the tension. This stand is not NIKON or Olympus quality, but it does suit the application that we are discussing here

As stated the stand is intended to hold a digital microscope of diameter up to 35mm. That is clearly not suitable for the diminutive P2 Pro, but the stand is easily adapted to our needs using nothing more sophisticated that a 'bung' to fit the microscope ring and some velcro pads to mount the camera to the 'bung'. It is also possible to make a nice adapter with 3D printing, as has been done for other dongle thermal cameras.

I have seen some nice aluminium 'bungs' used with silicone hoses in cars and there is a 35mm diameter size available. I might adapt one of those or 3D print something when I have more spare time. For the moment I will Jerry rig something for my tests.

For anyone wanting to buy this microscope stand, here is the Amazon UK page that I bought from but it is also widely available on eBay.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0797PPX8D/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Price was £18.99, including a nice zipped carry case for it and accessories, delivered next day 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have found a nice 3D printable tripod mount holder for the P2 that I intend to modify to create the P2 holder for my microscope stand.

The original files for the holder are to be found here:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5144744/files

It is the P2 tripod mounting cube that I will adapt by adding a cylinder to its rear for the 35mm microscope ring. I quickly roughed up such a design but will create a proper 3D printable model shortly. The Cylinder height has yet to be determined as it could be used for added height adjustment below the microscope mounts minimum height setting. It looks like I will be firing up my UP! Box 3D printer again soon 

In case anyone is wondering, the mount is also a hard case for the P2 and the camera may be installed backwards to protect the optical window when not in use. It is a nice tripod mount design that has saved me a lot of work  I attach the pictures of the tripod mount before I grafted a cylinder onto its rear. I will also print the tripod adapter as originally designed as it will be very useful.

Fraser
 

[Fraser]

I just printed the parts to make my microscope adapter. They turned out pretty well and are fit for purpose. My poor old Up! Box has not been used for about 3 years and she fired up and printed these parts without any adjustments needing to be made. I love that machine I created a combined holder and cylinder design but then decided to print the two parts separately to facilitate experimentation with the cylinder part without needing to reprint the more complex holder each time. This approach also simplified the supporting structure, as in non was needed  These are just prototype parts but they will work fine for my review tests. The P2 holder is really nicely designed so credit to the designer, fellow forum member - Bostwickenator, for his skilful work 

No apologies for the lurid "Kermit" green ABS used for these prints... I have a lot of it in stock 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Bostwickinator also produced a P2 STL and I could not resist printing it as a test fit in the holder (no risk of damage to my P2) 

Looking at the holder design, I may need to tweek it slightly to permit fitting of the Infiray close up lens attachment.

[bostwickenator]

Thanks Fraser. Glad to see those designs being useful! Now that you mention it I think kermit green would help me stop losing my P2, I might have to do a reprint  .

[Fraser]

I have another mounting adaption for my P2 Microscope stand and it is currently being printed. Nothing amazing but an idea came to me last night so I am printing it to see if it is useful. Pictures to follow

I am still holding off on my Infiray P2 review as things have got a little tense on the Infiray front on this forum. Be assured, the review will come, but it must be very carefully crafted as I have no desire to be mistaken for an Infiray promoter or lackey !

Fraser

[Fraser]

Thanks to the versatility of the P2 camera tripod adapter that Bostwickinator designed, I was able to quickly create a ball joint mount for the microscope stand. It is just a reduced height cylinder with the required clearance hole for a 1/4" 20TPI camera mount screw in its end plate.
I also printed another P2 holder for it. The ball mount was one I had lying around but I think I have smaller ones hiding somewhere and I will likely change to one of those when found.

Why build a ball mount for the P2 ? Well why not    It does in fact have its uses. Sometimes you either cannot look directly down on a target or you wish to view the target at an angle to gain thermal information from a different plane. The Ball mount permits angled viewing through 90 degrees, from vertical to horizontal.

Fraser

[Fraser]

I am thinking of making a 'camera on a stick' as well. That would be a P2 adapter and mini ball mount attached to an extending pole plus a long USB cable to a host phone mounted on the handle of the extending pole. That solution would provide the ability to look at targets in false ceiling spaces or similar spaces like plenum chambers in HVAC.

Then there is the thermal borescope ! A miniature version of the 'camera on a stick' using the same principe but more compact for accessing challenging areas of car engine compartments of similar cluttered environs.

When you have a miniature thermal camera that just needs a USB cable to its host computer/phone, it opens up all manner of deployment options 

In the above use cases, the fixed focus of the P2 is a distinct advantage over its manual focus T2x series siblings. Focussing a camera that is remote from the user can be a royal pain in the backside.

Fraser

[EEVblog]

Infiray having big sook and how it's all just a big misunderstanding. LOL. Nope.

[cejoba]

 

[Fraser]

Not making excuses for Infiray but I can share that one thermal camera company I worked with did suffer from an over excited R&D tech who was so pleased about what they had produced that he effectively spammed this forum with positive comments on the unit. I had a word with the Sales manager of the company and he apologised. He confirmed that the individual responsible had acted alone and did not understand the damage he could do to the brand by his actions. He stopped posting here. Sometimes people in a company have great belief in the projects they have worked on and make the mistake of posting lots of positive comments or recommendations for their product. From their point of view it is a double win.... their product sells and people get a decent (in their eyes) product to use. This is where a company needs to have good guidance for their staff regarding advertising products and who may do so. It can easily get out of hand if done incorrectly

I am honestly sorry that Infiray have made a mistake as they have good products to offer the thermal imaging enthusiast. I have permission from Dave to review the P2 Pro and I will review any other cameras I am leant for review, provided it is on my strict terms and the review is kept completely "warts and all" honest  No product is perfect and honest reviews assist companies in improving the next generation of products.

More from me soon

Fraser

[chemary]

I have been looking for cheaper alternatives to InfiRay P2 Pro and made this list of products currently available on Aliexpress, as you can see they all share the same specs (probably all are based on Tiny1 core) and some of them even have the same case with different branding. It seems, as we have commented in other threads, that the mobile/PC applications from one brand may be used with modules from different brand.

Some of them have cheaper models with reduced temperature range or reduced resolution. I have asked in other threads, but nobody knows if those limitations could be hacked to unleash the full range/full resolution, it will be nice to save some bucks.
I don't put prices here because they change constantly, but the VICTOR VC328B and Mileseey TR256i are the cheaper ones (their variants with 160x120 resolution are even cheaper), the others are more expensive with a wide range of prices depending of the seller.

[Fraser]

Apologies for the delay in releasing the P2 Pro review. Life can get pretty busy and I just did not have the time to do the camera justice. The delay has meant that I have added some additional mounting accessories to my inventory though  More about that in the review 

Fraser

[Fraser]

I have been asked where I bought my P2 Pro from…… I did not buy my unit, it was sent to me by Infiray free of charge for testing. If buying an Infiray product, I recommend buying from a well known reputable seller who offers quality service and support. Christmas is coming and the scammers will be on the hunt for victims ! I personally would avoid some of the lesser known sellers, especially any offering significant (unrealistic) discounts compared to the average market price. Infiray are not offering deep trade discounts on these units at the moment. I have no connection with Infiray or any sellers of their products so cannot recommend any specific source for these dinky little cameras.

Fraser

[Fraser]

My latest purchase for the P2 Pro (I really am spoiling this camera with accessories  ) …..

I decided to buy a good quality mobile phone holder for use with a tripod or pistol grip. There are many plastic and metal types available but I chose this particular aluminium model because it is well designed and nicely made. I like that it includes cold shoe and 1/4” 20tpi mounting points as this makes it very versatile when using my phone with dongle cameras etc. The tripod mount point offers both sizes of screw mount plus Arca Swiss clamp compatibility. I can either have the P2 Pro mounted on the phones USB socket or mounted on the rear of this phone holder using the 3D printed camera holder and a short USB cable.

This mount is not inexpensive at £25 but quality costs and it will last a long time 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09TPDSLF8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Fraser

[deephaven]

I believe you bought some cheap phones to try it with. It would be handy to know which ones work so we can look out for a cheap one to use.

[Fraser]

I have tested the P2 Pro with the following phones and it works well with them all …..

Samsung Galaxy S5 Circa 2014 - Android 6 (Marshmallow) / UI Touchwiz
Samsung Galaxy A6 Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) /  One UI 2.0
Samsung Galaxy A8 Circa 2018 - Android 9 (Pie) / One UI 1.0
Samsung Galaxy S9+ Circa 2018 - Android 10 (Q) / One UI 2.5

The frame rate was fine on all of the above but clearly the S5, being an older phone, may be under greater recessing stress than the later, more powerful phones. Mike has advised that a Circa 2016 J5 worked but the frame rate was impacted. The J5 is not a very powerful phone.

The Samsung S9+ was bought with a network connection issue for £79 so was not exactly cheap but I wanted a mobile phone with decent processing power for this, and other tests. An underpowered phone for the P2 Pro test would be unfair to the manufacturer in a review scenario. The A8 is a decent phone with powerful processor and may be purchased at reasonable cost if you look for one with a minor fault. My A8 in “as new” working condition was £65. The A6 is worth consideration as it has a reasonable processor but go for the A8 if the option exists. The S5 is my old workhorse for testing dongle thermal cameras. It had a powerful processor for its day and the FLIR One G2 APP was developed with a Samsung S5 platform considered the ‘standard’. By modern standards the S5 may not be that powerful but my phone did work OK with the P2 Pro once I found a Micro USB to USB type C adapter cable that worked. I cannot recommend the S5 though as she is an old girl and the battery in mine is showing its age. You can likely buy a better used phone for your money now.

Fraser

[deephaven]

Thank you for a brilliant answer, I know exactly what to look for now. Just taken delivery of a T2S+ and I'm already most impressed with it.

[CyberCartel]

As requested I uploaded version 2.0.1 uti-260m here:https://filetransfer.io/data-package/XwgzbKY7#link. It has a critical bug in distance settings. Tested with Android 8,11 and 12.

However InfinRayGo and P2 app from Infinray works also with this device!
 Maybe the same sensor?

[Fivefold]

This is probably the best app for the P2 I have used yet. None are perfect however.

Infiray Go only has limited editing capabilities after the pictures are taken. No changing the colour palette, adding the scale only adds it in rainbow palette, regardless of the chosen one. If you make a picture with a visual picture-in-picture added it gets lost if you edit the image afterwards.

P2 Pro has a better UI but when changing measurement points/lines/rectangles later you get completely wrong values. Also loses any picture-in-pictures upon editing.

Uni-T's Thermal mobile probably has the best UI and even allows overlaying the visual picture instead of putting it into a corner. You can choose opacity and even move the visual picture in regards to the thermal one. Editing later works also, but High, Low and Center point measurements are unfortunately un-toggleable since they are set in the settings and these are inaccessible while editing. No changing the colour palette when editing either.
I should note that the current version on the play store (2.1.6) works fine with my P2.

I would love to have the option of setting max and min value of the displayed temperature range instead of autorange to make image comparisons with the same range. Seems to be fixed to autorange in all three apps.

[Fivefold]

On another note, I got a P2 with a slightly different case that I can't find any pictures of on the web. The sales listing was P2 and used the usual images with the blue ring and the little ridge along the edges. Mine only has slightly filleted edges and what seems to be a sticker insert with the infiray logo next to the lens. The box label lists "P2" as the model and "IRAIP2A0IR00" as the part number.

Edit: All specs seem to be the same otherwise, as expected. A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

[Fraser]

Fivefold,

Great feedback on the APPs. Thankyou 

I hope for a P2 compatible Windows Software in the future to enable use on a PC where, traditionally, there can be more image analysis features on a larger display.

Fraser

[CyberCartel]

Thanks for the app reviews! Very inspiring and insightful! However the 2.1.6 app in the Playstore is for uti-120 mobile, uti-720m, uti-721m. My app is for uti-120m, uti-260m. I tried the 2.1.6 app without the device and it also crashes in the distance settings. I will try it with the device but I think it doesn't recognize my device. I also think the uti app is faster and has better UI than the infinray apps. It's very surprising!

[Cratve]

Good day.  I checked TOPDON TC001 applications with the infiray P2 apparatus.  Works fine, has a nice feature to monitor the temperature of the object and show it in the form of a graph.  The low and high temperature cursors are circles, they are hard to read in some palettes.  It also has a PC program, unfortunately it doesn't work with infiray P2.

[Fraser]

Forum member Tomasis tested the P2 with the Topdon windows software and just had to select the correct driver file. See reply #113 here….

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-and-their-p2-pro-discussion/100/

You may need to load the Tiny1 SDK driver file set though

Fraser

[mobby_6kl]

Hmm. So I was just considering getting a Uni-T UTi120M since with the current sales it's almost in "impulse purchase" category. But as always, I started looking if there's anything better and now here were are, I narrowed it down to these options:

Uti120m - $150
UTi260m - $240
P2 Pro - $255

I feel like it's between the Uti120 and the P2 Pro. The 260m has more resolution but still a fixed focus lens. But I'm not clear about the P2 Pro. The lens is still fixed focus, just macro, right? Can it at least be removed? I'd like to be able to use it for non-PCB purposes (which I don't do all the time anyway) as well, such as around the house or for car stuff. The descriptions aren't very clear about this.

Edit: I see there's also an IniRay T2L with a manual focus lens, but I think I have to set a limit somewhere or I'll be spending $5000 soon
Edit 2: Never mind, I found a listing on AE that made it clear there was a detachable magnetic lens so I bit the bullet and ordered it. $200 without VAT, now to just weasel out of that

[Gareth79]

Edit 2: Never mind, I found a listing on AE that made it clear there was a detachable magnetic lens so I bit the bullet and ordered it. $200 without VAT, now to just weasel out of that

Yes, it wasn't actually clear how it works until you find the right photo - the macro lens basically covers the entire front casing.

I just ordered one myself at the weekend using the 11.11 "spend and save" offers plus another £10 voucher on top, it took quite a chunk off the price! I picked it mostly because the price different between the options is not huge, and if they make the core then theoretically everything else involved (software and hardware) is likely to be engineered optimally.

[dophuc]

On sale on 11/11 on Aliexpress, I bought P2 pro and used a discount code, the product price is ~ 174 USD (excluding import tax if any). The price seems to be quite good compared to the normal price.

[CyberCartel]

On sale on 11/11 on Aliexpress, I bought P2 pro and used a discount code, the product price is ~ 174 USD (excluding import tax if any). The price seems to be quite good compared to the normal price.

That's a steal. Unfortunately I already bought the uti-260m a week ago!

[mobby_6kl]

On sale on 11/11 on Aliexpress, I bought P2 pro and used a discount code, the product price is ~ 174 USD (excluding import tax if any). The price seems to be quite good compared to the normal price.

Haha where did you find it for $174? Their search is pretty terrible but I tried several stores and shipping combinations and around $195 is the best I managed from the Uni-T store. They still haven't shipped so maybe I could still get another one.

[dophuc]

Haha where did you find it for $174? Their search is pretty terrible but I tried several stores and shipping combinations and around $195 is the best I managed from the Uni-T store. They still haven't shipped so maybe I could still get another one.

To buy at a good price on Aliexpress you need to find a discount code, many sites provide this code, just search "aliexpress promo code" there are dozens. On 11/11, I see there are discount codes up to 33$ for products over 220$ (15%), if you include the store and Aliexpress discount codes, the total discount can be over 40$, crazy discount 

[chemary]

To buy at a good price on Aliexpress you need to find a discount code, many sites provide this code, just search "aliexpress promo code" there are dozens. On 11/11, I see there are discount codes up to 33$ for products over 220$ (15%), if you include the store and Aliexpress discount codes, the total discount can be over 40$, crazy discount 

I got it at almost the same price and also got a 10EUR cashback, I didn't check if the variable focus alternatives like T2S had dropped the price so much it would have been also a good option, is P2 Pro with the macro lens the best price/option for circuit inspection, what do you think?

[CyberCartel]

To buy at a good price on Aliexpress you need to find a discount code, many sites provide this code, just search "aliexpress promo code" there are dozens. On 11/11, I see there are discount codes up to 33$ for products over 220$ (15%), if you include the store and Aliexpress discount codes, the total discount can be over 40$, crazy discount 

I got it at almost the same price and also got a 10EUR cashback, I didn't check if the variable focus alternatives like T2S had dropped the price so much it would have been also a good option, is P2 Pro with the macro lens the best price/option for circuit inspection, what do you think?

I plan to make my own lens with my uti-260m. I think p2 pro at that price is a steal for circuit inspection. I'm not a professional but a cheap lens is like $10 I think but you need the mounting brackets.

[mobby_6kl]

Haha where did you find it for $174? Their search is pretty terrible but I tried several stores and shipping combinations and around $195 is the best I managed from the Uni-T store. They still haven't shipped so maybe I could still get another one.

To buy at a good price on Aliexpress you need to find a discount code, many sites provide this code, just search "aliexpress promo code" there are dozens. On 11/11, I see there are discount codes up to 33$ for products over 220$ (15%), if you include the store and Aliexpress discount codes, the total discount can be over 40$, crazy discount 

Oof I didn't think to search for extra coupons outside. Had the same Spend and Save and a few Aliexpress and like $1-$2 store coupons only. That's a shame, I rarely order anything more than $10-15 from aliexpress so that was a good opportunity to use them.

To buy at a good price on Aliexpress you need to find a discount code, many sites provide this code, just search "aliexpress promo code" there are dozens. On 11/11, I see there are discount codes up to 33$ for products over 220$ (15%), if you include the store and Aliexpress discount codes, the total discount can be over 40$, crazy discount 

I got it at almost the same price and also got a 10EUR cashback, I didn't check if the variable focus alternatives like T2S had dropped the price so much it would have been also a good option, is P2 Pro with the macro lens the best price/option for circuit inspection, what do you think?

I looked at the T2S as well and they were on sale too during 11/11, but still quite a bit more than the P2 Pro. It could be worth it of course but I thought I had to stop somewhere and a macro lens would be good enough. Otherwise there's always something "just a bit more expensive"

[chemary]

A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

Have you thought on adding a metal sticker to the camera case like the ones in fridge magnets or car mobile phone holders? like this ones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002289904551.html

[CyberCartel]

A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

Have you thought on adding a metal sticker to the camera case like the ones in fridge magnets or car mobile phone holders? like this ones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002289904551.html

Will it works? That's really a brilliant idea!

[Fraser]

I note that QIANLI appear to be offering their own branded version of the P2 camera.
QIANLI specialise in mobile phone repair and they state that their QIANLI FIRE EYE IR camera has a focus distance of 80mm to 180mm.
The QIANLI software may work with the P2 as well but I have yet to test it.

The camera is detailed here and the software may be downloaded for installation on a phone.

https://www.fonefunshop.com/qianli-infrared-fire-eye-type-c-android-thermal-imaging-camera-for-board-repair

Fraser

[Fraser]

Just tested the Qianli software and sadly it looks like it is locked to the Qianli product so does not see the P2 as an acceptable camera to work with. I know who writes Qianli software so this is not a great surprise to me as they do it on other products that use Infiray cores.

Fraser

[CyberCartel]

Just tested the Qianli software and sadly it looks like it is locked to the Qianli product so does not see the P2 as an acceptable camera to work with. I know who writes Qianli software so this is not a great surprise to me as they do it on other products that use Infiray cores.

Fraser

It looks similar to the uti-260m app!

[chemary]

Just tested the Qianli software and sadly it looks like it is locked to the Qianli product so does not see the P2 as an acceptable camera to work with. I know who writes Qianli software so this is not a great surprise to me as they do it on other products that use Infiray cores.

Fraser

Thanks Fraser I just installed and is the same app than Victor and Mileseey (the Android package names are very indicative that they are made by the same company com.dyt.wcc.victor, com.dyt.wcc.mileseey, com.dyt.wcc.qianli).
If it doesn't work you don't lose nothing, is not a good app, it freezes constantly and UI rotates without control even when you don't move the phone.
I have Victor camera and the app worked until I installed the other apps, I think some of them updated the firmware of my Victor camera and made it incompatible with the original Victor app,
I think that the problem is not that they block the product because is not of their brand (that I hardly believe they invested on doing that when any of the other apps do it) but that the app is not working with latest firmware updates.

[Fraser]

DYT is Dianyanang Technology. They make the CA10 PCB analyser thermal camera that I reviewed.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/

The CA10 uses the Infiray S0 core that is the ‘big brother’ to the Tiny1 and found in the Infiray T2 series.

They make decent Windows software (Spectrum Owl) for the CA10 and were due to make an Android App for the CA10 but I have not heard that it has been released yet. Maybe they were concentrating on supplying other companies with an App for their products. It is a pity if the App is not up to the expected standard

https://dyt-ir.com/

I note that DYT sell the H1F and H2F that look like the Victor product. DYT are both a hardware and software developer and they make packages of hardware and software that are sold under many different brand names. I worked with them on a couple of equipment tests and they had the right attitude towards producing a decent product.

https://www.dyt-ir.com/mobile-infrared-thermal-imager-h2fh1f-product/

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

Have you thought on adding a metal sticker to the camera case like the ones in fridge magnets or car mobile phone holders? like this ones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002289904551.html

Infiray's macro lens has a magnet to attach,so the p2 already has something magnetic inside

[Fivefold]

A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

Have you thought on adding a metal sticker to the camera case like the ones in fridge magnets or car mobile phone holders? like this ones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002289904551.html

I did actually, after making the initial post. I filed a piece of metal sheet with a dremel tool and attached it with some double-sided tape, see the attached photo. Wanted to share everything once it's done, although that will still take time since I plan on creating a mold for a silicone 'sock' to hopefully protect the camera from falls.

A little downside of the case is that, while metal it's either aluminium or some other non-ferromagnetic material. I was hoping of making my own magnet clip-on lenses with the commonly recommended CO2 Laser ZnSe lenses. Basically make the P2 pro accessory myself. Since magnet's won't work I will have to make a literal clip-on solution instead, like shown somewhere before in this thread.

Have you thought on adding a metal sticker to the camera case like the ones in fridge magnets or car mobile phone holders? like this ones https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002289904551.html

Infiray's macro lens has a magnet to attach,so the p2 already has something magnetic inside

Exactly, it seems only my version of the case is (wholly) non-magnetic.

[Fivefold]

The P2 (and a 50.8mm focal length PVD ZnSe lens that I held by hand for now) already helped me several times with debugging a tiny short under a QFN chip after soldering as well as see that a prototype board I made became much hotter than anticipated without cooling. (For the latter there is no need for a thermal camera of course)

These are two images of said board, made with the uni-t app. The hot square chips you can see are TQFN-32 packages (5x5 mm size). With the 50.8mm lens you can even make out individual tracks in the closeup image. The singular tracks on the right side are about 0.3 mm/12 mil width and the differential tracks on the left side are about 0.2 mm/8mil each with about the same distance between them. Since the lens was held manually in front of the camera the best achievable focus might be even better than shown here.

Note how the hot and cold spot measurements have differently oriented text to the center spot measurement and the scale. This is a slight downside with the uni-t app images. I still prefer it over the other apps I've tested so far.

Note that this is not the P2 Pro closeup lens! I just have a regular P2 and an additional lens I bought.

[chemary]

I have seen in this post that the focus distance of P2 with macro lenses is around 25mm, but which is the focus distance with out it? I read on the specs Focal length is 3.2mm and aperture F1.1 but having a fixed focus I can't find the depth of field in which images are crisp, I think I read somewhere it's < 3m but maybe I'm wrong.

[Fraser]

I have been hat of in with my P2 Pro  Beyond using it just to inspect PCB’s, I have been looking into other uses for this tiny camera dongle. The cameras small size makes it extremely versatile and I can forgive some eliminations in its imaging compared to my much more expensive pro-sumer and professional cameras

I cannot thank Bostwickenator enough for designing the tripod mount ‘cube’ for the P2. That 3D printable camera mount has enabled me to attach the tiny P2 to all manner of useful and exotic mounting solutions. I bought various USB C direction adapters and extension cables to provide maximum deployment versatility, and it has been great fun thinking up different ways to deploy the camera. It is the small size of this unit that continues to impress me. It may not be small enough to be called a borescope camera, but add it to a simple ‘selfie stick’ or long camera monopod, and USB C extension cable, and you have a very useful ‘probing’ device for thermal imaging in hard to reach or inaccessible areas. I have a pile of different mounting options on the table for the P2 and I will include details of these in a annex to my P2 Pro review. Just as I did with the DYT CA10 review, I will add plenty of sample images and uses as annexes to the main review. This will demonstrate the versatility of the tiny camera module.

My thoughts on the P2 in précis ? Well I have never been a great fan of dongle type thermal cameras and always preferred the ‘all in one’ designs that do not rely on a mobile phone. I can honestly say that the P2 Pro has changed my view of dongle cameras. When made well and made small, they can be very useful tools. The ability to separate the camera head from the viewing device offers advantages over ‘all in one’ camera designs. We live in the real World and miniaturisation of this technology does not come without some compromises. Whilst the P2 Pro performs very well in my use cases, it’s App is a little basic for my tastes and there is some patterning on the image that I am not used to seeing on much more expensive cameras. Does this stop the P2 Pro performing well in many varied thermal imaging scenarios ? I am pleased to say, no it does not. I really like this little camera for what it can offer me above and beyond my larger units  If only I could convince my DYT Spectrum Owl 2.0 PCB analysis PC software to recognise it ! We cannot have everything we want though 

To those who might ask whether the P2 Pro (Tiny1 core) or the T2 series (S0 core) cameras are recommended for them to buy….I say, if you want an affordable thermal,imaging dongle solution, I recommend both camera series. The P2 and P2 Pro definitely deliver decent thermal imaging and fixed focus in a very small package. The T2 series use the larger S0 core that does perform better than the miniature Tiny1 core,. The manual focus will always provide sharper imaging than a fixed focus lens. Manual focus does not suit some use scenarios and can become a drawback, rather than an advantage, if using the camera head remotely from the phone and users easy reach. I make no secret of the fact that that I love the Infiray S0 camera core, and cameras that use it perform well. The DYT CA-10 uses the S0 core. The Tiny1 offers another level of miniaturisation though and it’s smaller lens does reduce performance a little. In the world of miniaturisation, we are always battling physics !

Fraser

[chemary]

It would be nice to see the same images taken from a DYT CA-10 and a P2 Pro for comparison of Tiny1 and S0 cores. I own myself a P2 Pro and Victor 328B, both have the same core, I haven't done an extensive analysis but the image quality, as expected seems exactly the same.

[Fraser]

Chemary,

That is exactly what I intend to provide 

For some users the P2 series will be perfect, but for others the manual focus and better imaging performance of the T2 series will be a better choice. I hope to show the two cores ‘side by side’ for those needing to decide which is best for their needs. That will be an annex to the review as the review focuses on just the P2 Pro.

Fraser

[IwuzBornanerd]

What appears to be another Dongle camera using the Tiny1-x core

The Lodestar L2

https://www.tomtop.com/p-e21658.html

https://offpriceshop.com/product/lodestar-l2-usb-ir-thermal-imager-256x192-resolution-20170c-mobile-phone-type-c-plug-and-play-industrial-inspection-mini-infrared-camera-with-temperature-alarm-compatible-with-android

Hopefully the popularity of the Tiny1-x cores will lead to some decent software being developed for it by OEM's 

Fraser

I just came across what appears to be a "WeCopy" clone, or perhaps more likely, a simple re-branding of the Lodestar on Amazon; the TestHelper KCH-P2:

https://www.amazon.com/TestHelper-Ultra-Small-Professional-Smartphones-Resolution/dp/B091YCS54X/ref=sr_1_38?keywords=thermal+camera&qid=1669353378&refinements=p_76%3A1249158011&rnid=1249156011&rps=1&s=industrial&sr=1-38#customerReviews

[Fluvance]

Tomasis,

I have the Tiny1-c Windows SDK with the driver files if that is of interest to you for Topdon software modifications.

Fraser

Any chance it would be possible to get that SDK? Or a link where to find it? I just bought the Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera with, presumably, the same Infiray sensor configured to a lower resolution. I'm hoping to get it working on my computer but no luck so far.


Interestingly, this Mileseey camera doesn't work with any other Android thermal app intended for Tiny1-c sensors. I read some people were able to use the P2 Pro with apps from other brands, so I was expecting the same to apply to this sensor. I can however use some apps intended for generic endoscope cameras. It shows the splitscreen input directly from the camera, a 160x120 black and white feed showing the thermal image, and a second 160x120 greenscale image showing what I expect is the raw temperature information in each pixel.

[chemary]

Interestingly, this Mileseey camera doesn't work with any other Android thermal app intended for Tiny1-c sensors. I read some people were able to use the P2 Pro with apps from other brands, so I was expecting the same to apply to this sensor. I can however use some apps intended for generic endoscope cameras. It shows the splitscreen input directly from the camera, a 160x120 black and white feed showing the thermal image, and a second 160x120 greenscale image showing what I expect is the raw temperature information in each pixel.

I have Victor 328B that is exactly the same that Mileseey (but the 256x192 pixels version) and when you connect with a generic camera app you see a 256x192 stream and a second image on top that maybe is the temperature information as you said or the extra pixels as I think Tiny1 gives more than 8 bits. I suppose the 160x128 camera has a different USB descriptor and that's why it can't be used with other apps, but have you tried the UNI-T app, it lets you choose the 256 or 160 version when the app is launched.
Probably unlocking the higher resolution would need a firmware update as the camera only presents 160x128  resolution.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I need to look into Windows drivers etc but certainly not 'Plug & Play' on a windows PC at the moment.

I just plugged the P2Pro into my Win7 PC and after short delay it seems to work fine as a webcam.

I've also had it running on a raspberry Pi, using MotionEye, configuring as a standard USB camera, so should work with any RasPi software that can talk to a USB camera ( and is happy with the slighly oddball 256x192 resolution)

[mikeselectricstuff]

Review & teardown :
https://youtu.be/YMQeXq1ujn0

[Fraser]

Nice review Mike 

I agree that this diminutive camera is great to have available in the lab. I have been using mine for a similar period of time as you and I must say I really like it. It is products like this that will really pose a threat to FLIR and Seek Thermal dongle type thermal cameras. I was pleasantly surprised by my units image quality and frame rate and thank you for testing the frame rate as that has saved me a job 

My Dianyang CA10 produces a very nice thermal image and that uses the larger Infiray S0 core that is very similar in size and appearance to a Seek Thermal Mosaic core. The S0 offers a larger lens and manual focus and it is to be found in the Infiray T2 series of camera dongles. For me, I would like to own both the P2 and a T2 as they are both strong performers and the fixed focus suits some applications but manual focus provides excellent sharp imaging in other scenarios. I discovered this when comparing my FLIR E4 with my E40….. the manual focus needs of the E40, with associated shallow depth of field, could actually be a bit annoying when imaging targets at differing distances. The fixed focus E4 just provided an acceptable image anywhere in its range of fixed focus, and it has a decent close focus specification. Your video review shows just how easily the P2 may be used for PCB analysis and its close focus without the Macro lens is impressive 

Like you I have been using my P2 instead of some of my larger cameras as it is just so convenient. I have lots of thermal cameras to choose from yet I used to grab my E40 (E60) or Hikvision DS-2TP31….. I now reach for the little P2 Pro if needing to do a quick thermal check. For PCB analysis I still use the Infiray S0 cored DYT CA10 (upgraded to CA20 spec) as that offers more capable software that runs on a PC.

Fraser

[scottc19]

Are the P2 and P2 Pro identical aside from the temperature range?  Or is there another difference I missed?

[deephaven]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

I've tried various Default USB configurations in the developer settings but none seem to make it work.

The phone is locked to a particular mobile phone company, would that be an issue?

[chemary]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

It happens some times to me, try to kill any other open app, disconnect the camera, then open P2 Pro app and when it says "Please plug in the device and turn on the OTG function" connect the camera, be sure to cancel any dialog saying if you want to open other app. If you accepted to always open an other app when you connect the camera, you have to go to Android settings remove it.

[deephaven]

I have my P2 Pro running on a Samsung A8 but having a problem. If I use the Xtherm infrared app it works fine. But, if I try to use the P2Pro app, it is asking to turn on the OTG function, strange if it works with the other app.

It happens some times to me, try to kill any other open app, disconnect the camera, then open P2 Pro app and when it says "Please plug in the device and turn on the OTG function" connect the camera, be sure to cancel any dialog saying if you want to open other app. If you accepted to always open an other app when you connect the camera, you have to go to Android settings remove it.

Thanks for the reply. I tried your ideas but nothing seems to stop the app requesting OTG be turned on.

[sofakng]

Hey guys... what's the difference between these different models?

I've ordered the TOPDON TC001 a few days ago ($175.95 shipped) after doing some research but I couldn't find too much information about it.  I can't imagine anything better in the price range and it seems like the Infiray P2 Pro uses the same chip?

[Fluvance]

Something that I found interesting was that the Topdon TC001 Android application has a firmware update function. When I plug in my Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera, the Topdon app suggests a firmware update for it. I'm hesitant to try it as I don't want to brick my camera from being used with the original app and possibly any app at all. But... The TC001 is a 256x192 camera, so there's a slim chance that depending on what the firmware is for, it could hack my 160x120 camera, which uses the same Tiny1 sensor, to a 256x192 camera.

Anyone have any theories on that? I suppose it depends how the Tiny1 is being configured to run in a lower resolution and if the controller/USB interface chip is the same between brands.

[chemary]

Something that I found interesting was that the Topdon TC001 Android application has a firmware update function. When I plug in my Mileseey TR160i 160x120 camera, the Topdon app suggests a firmware update for it. I'm hesitant to try it as I don't want to brick my camera from being used with the original app and possibly any app at all. But... The TC001 is a 256x192 camera, so there's a slim chance that depending on what the firmware is for, it could hack my 160x120 camera, which uses the same Tiny1 sensor, to a 256x192 camera.

Anyone have any theories on that? I suppose it depends how the Tiny1 is being configured to run in a lower resolution and if the controller/USB interface chip is the same between brands.

As I commented earlier I have Victor 328B that is the same that Mileseey TR256i and when I connected to Topdon Android app it asked to update the firmware, I didn't do it because it was working fine and I didn't want to brick the device, but after trying some apps I suspect some of them automatically updated the firmware because now it says I have the latest version.

I decompiled the Topdon Android application and inside there are 2 files named `P2-256-V3.02-20220310.bin` and `P2-256-V3.03-20220402.bin` as you can see in the attached pictures the date and version correspond to the firmware that I have, so all points that they are the firmware files.There are no firmware for the 160 pixels version so maybe you are lucky and they can upgrade the camera to the 256 pixels version, in theory the hardware is the same.

Having said that if you update is your responsibility, it may work or it may not work or it may even brick your device, my recommendation is that if it works fine for you and you value it stay with the 160 pixels firmware, is better that that bricking it.

[Gareth79]

Finally got my P2 Pro ordered in the 11.11 sale. First impressions (using the Topdon app, which was the first that immediately worked) are that it's an impressive bit of kit. If they had a reliable/reputable resellers around the world, some side-by-side comparisons and some decent software then it should blow the western competition out of the water (or at least get some price reductions). They should get onto that rather than wasting time spamming enthusiast forums and selling direct on AliExpress, the product will sell itself.

edit: To add, I bought from the UNI-T store and received one with the silver case and a screen-printed white logo, not the style with the inset logo on a decal.

[Fraser]

A little update from me….

Like Mike, I have been testing the P2 Pro for a few weeks now and I am about to release the review that I have written.

Infiray released a new version of the APP on the 6th December and I loaded it today to see if some bugs had been fixed since my testing was completed.

To note: My September release of P2 Pro (1.0.5.220921) had some bugs that included …..

1. The APP sometimes not seeing the camera dongle and asking for it to be connected. The solution to this was to close down the P2 Pro completely and erase it from the APP history page in Android (three horizontal bar icon on desktop). The P2 Pro APP would then work correctly if manually started or the camera plugged in to initiate an auto run of the APP. I had this issue with the Samsung A6, A8 and S9 Plus phones.

2. On the Samsung S9 Plus, when switching to the Wide range (High temperature) mode, the displayed spot temperatures were all over 800 Celsius even when viewing a 20C target. No solution was discovered during testing. The A8 phone did not suffer from this issue.

The new release of the P2 Pro APP dated 6 December 2022 has fixed the temperature measurement error in the high temperature range on the Samsung S9 Plus. Sadly a new issue has appeared though. When selecting the P2 Pro APP icon the phone reports that the APP is not installed. Plugging the camera dongle into the phone initiates the starting of the P2 Pro APP and all works normally. Trying to start the APP with the camera plugged in still returns the "APP not found" error. Hopefully a fix will be released soon. This fault is present on my Samsung A6, A8, S9 and also my Motorola G5 so it is not a “Samsung issue”.

I have yet to test the new release properly but it still appears to have the issue of not always seeing the camera dongle and needing the history entry to be deleted before it will work again.

Fraser

[Fraser]

The P2 Pro review is complete 

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-infiray-p2-pro-thermal-camera-dongle-for-android-mobile-phones/

I intend to add to it over time but this is the core documents set.

Fraser

[mikeselectricstuff]

They're sending me a T2S to look at - as far as I can tell trom the website, it's basically the same as the P2 but with an adjustable lens, which should be more convenient.

[Fraser]

Mike,

The T2S will contain the Infiray S0 core that is also used in my DYT CA-10 Thermal PCB Analyzer 

https://www.infiray.com/products/s0-series-long-wave-infrared-sensor-module.html

My CA-10 review with lots of pictures…..

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/review-dianyang-technology-ca10-circuit-board-thermal-analyzer-repair-rd/

It is a bit like Infiray’s answer to the Seek Thermal Mosaic.

Fraser

[Fraser]

A new P2 Pro APP version dated 14 December 2022 has been released on the play store. It addresses the issue of the APP icon failing to start the APP and makes recognition of the camera being connected more reliable.

Fraser

[cmpxchg]

Has anyone had issues with the thermal image just hanging? I'm getting rather frustrated with this device - it seems extremely picky about which devices it will run on at all, it doesn't work on my Motorola smartphone, I tried a Xiaomi from a friend and it wouldn't run either (just stuck at the OTG screen). I've now got a Samsung tablet and it shows an image for a second or two, then just hangs (until restarting the app, at which point it shows a picture again for a second).

Connecting it to a Windows computer it works just fine (with the occasional stutter in the framerate, however), but that's not exactly how I imagined using this.

[tjhowse]

I've found pretty severe JPEG compression artifacts affect the images captured from the P2 Pro using the "P2 Pro" app from the google play store. Does anyone have a recommendation for alternative android-based software, or a setting I've missed in the "P2 Pro" app? I'd get better image quality if I took a screenshot via the OS, as compared to using the built-in image capture. Toggling the "Improve image quality" setting doesn't appear to affect anything.

The resolution is fine, the images come out at around 350kB, 1440x1080x24, but the image quality is pretty ragged. It's especially obvious around the overlay text, there is a fuzziness about it that has nothing to do with the comparatively low-res thermal sensor.

[Fraser]

tjhowse,

I agree, the images that are saved do not do justice to those seen on the phones display as a live image. Sadly the are no options for the user to change compressions levels in the P2 Pro App. The image quality control acts on the algorithm that is in the image processing algorithm and not the image save process. I saw little difference between the image quality enhancement being on or off.

There are other APP that work with the P2 Pro as, thankfully, the Tiny1 core is used in several other cameras.If the Vid and PId are the same, the other manufacturers software will often work with ten P2 Pro and even supports the high temperature range.

Take a look at the TOPDON TC001. It has Android and Windows software that may be downloaded from the TOPDON web site. Sadly the Uni-T UTi720M app will not recognise my P2 Pro which is a pity. Infiray have another Android App called “Go” that was for the P2 standard model but it still has the Pro option switch. I suspect saved image compression will be the same however.

It would be good to identify sources of alternative Apps for the P2 Pro so that the best ones may be used for a particular application.

Fraser

[tjhowse]

Fraser,

Thanks for the wisdom. Shortly after posting I found Chemary's post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-p2-application/ that lists a few other options too. I've since boxed the camera back up, since it was nominally a christmas present. <_<

I'll look at alternative softwares on christmas morning and report my findings.

Cheers,
Travis.

[oliv3r]

Hey all,

Without trying to derail this thread too much I am curious why there's no mention of the T3 smartphone modules? They have better specs (focal distance might be different? But yes, cost a little bit more. Are they so new that this hasn't come up yet? Or they a bit older already?

Speaking of T3/T2, I suppose the biggest differences between the T and the P series is the target market? T for 'outdoorsy things' and P for professional use? Idk. I see that the T's are sold in kit form with one of those 'gun-type' holders, though on ali express that doesn't seem to be the case?

So am I missing something obvious, or is this discussion entirely price driven? Or do we wait for a P3pro :p

P.S. just noticed that on AE they also now list an iOS version, for those that care

[katzenhai2]

[...]
Are they so new that this hasn't come up yet? Or they a bit older already?

Speaking of T3/T2, I suppose the biggest differences between the T and the P series is the target market? T for 'outdoorsy things' and P for professional use? Idk. I see that the T's are sold in kit form with one of those 'gun-type' holders, though on ali express that doesn't seem to be the case?[...]

T3 is marketed since 2019, so yes its a bit older (see older threads here by using the search function).
There are outdoor versions of the "T" devices but I think that depends on the used lens.

[mikeselectricstuff]

[...]
Are they so new that this hasn't come up yet? Or they a bit older already?

Speaking of T3/T2, I suppose the biggest differences between the T and the P series is the target market? T for 'outdoorsy things' and P for professional use? Idk. I see that the T's are sold in kit form with one of those 'gun-type' holders, though on ali express that doesn't seem to be the case?[...]

T3 is marketed since 2019, so yes its a bit older (see older threads here by using the search function).
There are outdoor versions of the "T" devices but I think that depends on the used lens.

An obvious internal difference is that the P2 has an ASIC, whereas the T2 uses an FPGA

[sofakng]

P.S. just noticed that on AE they also now list an iOS version, for those that care

Are you referring to Aliexpress?

I'm hoping that TopDon TC001 receives iOS compatibility without requiring a new device...

[oliv3r]

So pardon my ignorance

So T is FPGA, and P is ASIC, which could explain why the P2 is cheaper, FPGA's cost a lot. In theory, more functionality could be added to the T (if the development gods will it) and the FPGA variant _could_ be more powerful/feature rich in general I recon?

Anyway, So the sensor is about 50% more expensive and older, but at a higher resolution. There's no P3 only the T3, so would it make sense to hope that a P3 would be released somewhere this year? Or is the P2 'really more then good enough'. Higher res sure sounds nice, if all other things are equal. Heck If it'd take to long, might still try to get a T3 still...

[blubb]

Hi everyone,

I noticed that my P2 pro starts to flicker after a couple of minutes of run time. After I plug it in, it works ok at first. But then I get a 1-2 brighter frames every few seconds. The bright frames have all pixel values increased by about ~10-20 (8-bit greyscale). This continues until I unplug and restart the camera. Same behavior on Win10/11 with VLC capture and on Android with InfirayGo. The problem is visible directly in live viewer and occurs with and without the macro lens.

Anyone else with this problem?

[mattcaves]

Has anyone had issues with the thermal image just hanging? I'm getting rather frustrated with this device - it seems extremely picky about which devices it will run on at all, it doesn't work on my Motorola smartphone, I tried a Xiaomi from a friend and it wouldn't run either (just stuck at the OTG screen). I've now got a Samsung tablet and it shows an image for a second or two, then just hangs (until restarting the app, at which point it shows a picture again for a second).

Connecting it to a Windows computer it works just fine (with the occasional stutter in the framerate, however), but that's not exactly how I imagined using this.

Yes, I have this problem too, very frustrating!

I have two Android phones, an old Nexus 5x that it works fine on, although it's really slow as the phone is so old. So I went and got a Nokia G21 on Vodafone PAYG especially for the P2 Pro, which is doing exactly this, it works for a couple of seconds and then just freezes. Sometimes it works for longer, but always freezes in the end.

I've written to the support email address for the app, we'll see if I get any response.

Cheers,
Matt

[Fraser]

I would have discussed the phone compatibility issues with Infiray but since producing my review they have not responded to my emails. I appear to have been "Ghosted" Maybe they did not like the review ? A pity as I thought they had some decent products worth discussing on this forum. Their loss and I will not pursue them further.

For information, I have had the P2 camera working fine on the Samsung S5, A6, A8, S9 and Motorola G5

Fraser

[marcosscriven]

I'm found this thread Googling "topdon tc001 tiny1-c" (third result), as I recently bought one and was disappointed with some basic limitations of the app (especially the dynamic colour->temp mapping).

I figured they would likely be generic, and saw a couple of posts suggesting they use a tiny1-c. Plugging it into a Linux box with a 5.19 kernel it shows

Code: [Select]

[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: new high-speed USB device number 6 using xhci_hcd
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: New USB device found, idVendor=0bda, idProduct=5830, bcdDevice=11.01
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: New USB device strings: Mfr=3, Product=1, SerialNumber=2
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: Product: USB Camera
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: Manufacturer: Generic
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:57 2023] usb 1-3: SerialNumber: xxxxx [redacted]
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:58 2023] mc: Linux media interface: v0.10
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:58 2023] videodev: Linux video capture interface: v2.00
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:58 2023] usb 1-3: Found UVC 1.00 device USB Camera (0bda:5830)
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:58 2023] input: USB Camera: USB Camera as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:01.2/0000:02:00.0/usb1/1-3/1-3:1.0/input/input28
[Sat Jan 14 16:17:58 2023] usbcore: registered new interface driver uvcvideo
Which is a generic realtek camera.

Searching through this post I've seen some talk of using another device with the Topdon software, but not the other way around? I searched Android store for "infiniray" and tried a few without success. One came up with a dialog box in Chinese.

I also searched Github for "infiray" and found this https://github.com/jiusiz/infiray - wondering if that would be compatible, but only mention of device class seems totally unrelated https://github.com/marcosscriven/infiray/blob/main/app/src/main/java/com/jiusiz/infiray/InfiRayActivity.kt#L328

[Fraser]

Apps appear to use the USB PID to determine which cameras they will work with. The Infiray Windows SDK has drivers for several versions of Tiny1 core. Different drivers provide different functionality. The ASIC (rather than PID number) driver provided the greatest number of options for fine tuning the core. Anyone wanting the windows SDK should contact Infiray and not me please.

I have tested the TOPDON APP with my Infiray P2 and it works fine. The TOPDON and P2 both have the same 5830 PID. The UNi-T APP did not work with the P2 PRO even though their 720M/721M camera uses the Tiny1 core.

Fraser

[greynol4]

Has anyone had any luck with the video output via usb?  I can get the raw image or the raw image with the greenscale below it but obviously that's not ideal.  I have the SDK but I'm not a programmer and the documentation isn't very comprehensive.  Right now its happy to stream on motioneye installed on a pi3 but I'd like to get rid of the raw image and be able to use at least a grayscale palette.  I'm thinking that it's going to involve processing the image and then getting that into motioneye instead of motioneye directly.  I'll also mention that this isn't a p2 but a tiny1 core pulled from a sketchy camera but it does support UVC as is and shows as the generic realtek usb cam.

[kat]

yes, I have tried it as an USB Camera.
actually I am planning to create an app for it, because these chinese apps suck... and I could really use the SDK if you have it.

for now I only tested it using the browser's Media api, which is very limited.. From the camera I get a single video stream that produces an image with double the height. It appears to be split in two, second half shows a greeny version of the image. I think it contains thermal data required to render the image with diff palettes. 

[blargg]

Don't do what I did. This isn't suitable for carrying in a pocket, even in its bag, with keys. This happened about a week after I received mine.

The image doesn't seem affected. I've moved it slowly across hard-edged objects parallel to the crack and haven't seen any odd artifacts. I tested blocking the front and found that the lens behind the cover is a small portion of it. So as a repair I put a tiny piece of Scotch tape in the corner over the cracks, to keep them from worsening. It's held up for a few weeks now being used daily.

Next step is to contact the site I ordered from (Pergear) and then Infiray and see if they can send me a new cover piece (I guess it glues in? I've seen the teardown video where there's a washer-looking thing below it). Maybe it just needs a new shell. The card I purchased it with actually includes insurance for accidental damage like this though I'd need a repair estimate. I'm not keen on shipping this off to China to be maybe repaired, maybe damaged.

Just thought I'd offer some warning to be careful with theirs. I'm still LOVING this thing. It's so compact and functional.

[aurel]

It seems there is interest in using the P2 Pro as a USB camera on PC and interpreting the content of the video stream, so I will share the experiments I made after receiving mine.

Basically I played with ffmpeg to extract raw data from the video stream.

The main finding is that the USB UVC device is exporting 2 video streams
- a 256x192 yuyv422 stream that contains a grayscale 8 bits normalized video that is directly exploitable (the 8 bits luminance channel is the temperature data and both chrominance channels are fixed values to give a colorless/grayscale result)
- a 256x384 yuyv422 stream that contains an exact copy of the previous stream in the upper half of the image and a greenish picture in the bottom half. This greenish picture is actually the raw non-normalized sensor values that are actually encoded in gray16le format (just 16 bits per pixel, in one grayscale channel, little-endian).

Examples playing with those video streams on a linux box:

Code: [Select]

# First of, find the device corresponding to your IR camera
v4l2-ctl --list-devices


Code: [Select]

# Check that the normalized stream works fine
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x192 -i /dev/video4


Code: [Select]

# Look a the combined streams
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4


Code: [Select]

# Use ffmpeg to grab the combined stream, crop to keep only the bottom half
# then pipe the raw data to ffplay and reinterpret it as gray16le.
# The resulting picture will be almost uniform gray due to the low range of
# the raw values in the 16 bits dynamic range.
# The raw values in a 0°C to 100°C environment ranges around 19000 to 24000
# (in a 0 to 65535 dynamic range).
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i -


Code: [Select]

# To make the resulting raw stream more useful, you can add a normalization filter
# followed by a pseudocolor filter with typical IR camera colors
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno'


Code: [Select]

# You can then play with pretty much infinitely long ffmpeg command lines
# For example, you can upscale the video stream, display the min and max raw
# values in the top left corner and add a time graph of the min and max values
# at the bottom
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'signalstats, split [main][secondary]; [main] normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno, scale=w=2*iw:h=2*ih, drawtext=x=3:y=3:borderw=1:bordercolor=white:fontfile=FreeSerif.ttf:text=MIN\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMIN}    MAX\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMAX} [thermal]; [secondary] drawgraph=m1=lavfi.signalstats.YMIN:fg1=0xFFFF9040:m2=lavfi.signalstats.YMAX:fg2=0xFF0000FF:bg=0x303030:min=18500:max=24500:slide=scroll:size=512x64 [graph]; [thermal][graph] vstack'



So the raw data from the sensor are very easily accessible. The only missing part is the conversion from raw values to actual temperatures. I don't know if some kind of calibration needs to be applied or if the raw values can be converted directly to temperatures with a simple fixed (linear ?) equation.
In my quick tests I derived the following equation to convert raw to °C but this is only a rough guesstimate: f(x) = (x - 19295) / 51.2857

[kat]

very nice!
Not sure if ffmpeg is good option for extracting frames in real-time, because of performance reasons.

I tried using the "libuvc" library to access the camera, but apparently it does not work on MacOS > 12, because Apple now takes exclusive access of cameras, and apps need to ask for permissions, which is another hassle.
But if there is no need for the extra metadata to generate the thermal image, then it should be possible to do it with the browser media Api + canvas.
For temperature reading, we need the metadata because the colors are not directly mapped to a temperature. That equation needs at least another variable for determining the range, like max temp value

[zenbonzo]

Hello, everyone.
I am a new member but have been following you for a long time.
I have no programming experience.
As an owner of the P2 pro thermal camera I have done a bit of research and try to share here hoping to be helpful. I apologise if there is already known content.
The information is in no particular order:

1) I have installed several android compatible apps. one of them saved here: \Android\data\com.infisense.p2plus\files\Documents two interesting files:
P200163D13398059_nuc_table_high.bin and P200163D13398059_nuc_table_low.bin
see attached files. I added a final .txt just in case Bin isn't allowed.

2) it seems to me that the InfiRay Go App is the only one that not only saves the images but also saves (but I don't know where) the temperature values or the raw values of the entire matrix, because from its gallery, with the "edit" option the image without overlays appears and you can work on it exactly as in the shooting phase. This option on my smartphone does not work with any other compatible app. I find it extremely useful. I have not been able to find where this data is stored - does anyone have a chance to check?

3) Rune Hansen https://discord.gg/R95eer5k has announced its intention to support P2 Pro in the new version of its wonderful software soon!

Thanks for your attention and good work!

[zenbonzo]

addition: I found this on GitHub:
https://github.com/LeoDJ/P2Pro-Viewer/blob/main/P2Pro/P2Pro_cmd.py
and this one:
https://github.com/jiusiz/infiray
Ciao!

[zenbonzo]

and finally: the very basic windows program of the TOPDON TC001 'clone' thermal imaging camera downloadable here:
https://www.topdon.com/pages/pro-down?fuzzy=TC001 works with P2 Pro (by installing provided drivers).
It saves Temp Matrices in a raw format (in the TempMatrix directory of the program dir (I attach one).
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to process it?
Thanks!

[LeoDJ]

addition: I found this on GitHub:
https://github.com/LeoDJ/P2Pro-Viewer/blob/main/P2Pro/P2Pro_cmd.py

Hi, I'm the author of this GitHub repo.

I've already found out a lot about the camera. (e.g. video format, temperature conversion and the out-of-band communication and format of the USB vendor requests, like setting the color palettes, shutter control, high temperature mode, etc)
Some of it has also already been found out by others in this thread, as I've just discovered.

I plan on publishing a write-up of everything I've found later on too, but for now I'm focussing on getting a basic Python implementation working.

Here's also a Mastodon thread about my progress, if you want to keep up-to-date in the meantime: https://chaos.social/@LeoDJ/109633033381602083

I don't know if some kind of calibration needs to be applied or if the raw values can be converted directly to temperatures with a simple fixed (linear ?) equation.
In my quick tests I derived the following equation to convert raw to °C but this is only a rough guesstimate: f(x) = (x - 19295) / 51.2857

According to my reverse engineering the lower video frame contains the temperature data directly in Kelvin. It's 14-bit, shifted into the most significant bits, multiplied by a factor of 16.
So to get from the value from the camera to a temperature in °C, the formula is:

Code: [Select]

t = ((x >> 2) / 16) - 273.15
or simpler:

Code: [Select]

t = x / 64 - 273.15

[zenbonzo]

Tank you for your reply and your great work! Any advice on how to obtain simply a matrice with temperature values at every pixel of a screenshot? E.g. pressing a key... Whith a minimum of code... ?

[bostwickenator]

So to get from the value from the camera to a temperature in °C, the formula is:

Code: [Select]

t = ((x >> 2) / 16) - 273.15
or simpler:

Code: [Select]

t = x / 64 - 273.15

Nice work on figuring out the conversion for the RAW stream! Those will be very useful for me.

sidenote: I gotta say it's a bit frustrating reading this thread seeing everyone figure out if it's a UVC camera and what it works with when I documented this in my review in 2021 on this forum. I know the search tool here isn't the best but give it a good check before doing things the hard way there is an absolute wealth of information on here.

[Spenoza]

Hi. I need the advice of experienced thermal imager users. Because of the cheap price, I bought myself a Victor 328B thermal imager. As far as I understand, its filling is similar to the P2 PRO. In the evening, I indulged them in the P2 PRO app from Infraray. At first glance, it worked fine. But the next day I noticed that it began to show the wrong temperature. Moreover, in the application from Infraray it has a room temperature of hundreds of degrees, and in the application from the manufacturer a negative temperature at a real temperature of about 20 degrees. Judging by the sound, calibration is performed every 5-10 seconds. At the same time, it seemed to me that after warming up, calibration becomes much less frequent. Do you have any advice on this situation?

[Fraser]

In such a situation I would delete both Apps (Victor and Infiray) and reinstall, just the Victor App. Test the camera again for correct operation. It is unlikely that the Infiray App will damage your camera, but it is possible for an App to corrupt another Apps driver.

A high temperature reading error was a bug in one version of the a Infiray App whilst it was set to the high temperature range. That bug was fixed in a later release though.

FFC flag events decrease in frequency once the cameras microbolometer has stabilised at its nominal operating temperature.

Fraser

[rop12770]

Well, after testing a Seek PRO and an amazingly Qianli, I decided to buy a P2 PRO wih macro Lens.
For 200€, I think this will be perfect for what I need/want!

[Spenoza]

Unfortunately, reinstalling the programs did not help. And these thermal imagers can be connected to Windows computers?

[greynol4]

yes, I have tried it as an USB Camera.
actually I am planning to create an app for it, because these chinese apps suck... and I could really use the SDK if you have it.

for now I only tested it using the browser's Media api, which is very limited.. From the camera I get a single video stream that produces an image with double the height. It appears to be split in two, second half shows a greeny version of the image. I think it contains thermal data required to render the image with diff palettes.

I have the SDK, I'll send you a pm.  It has sample code and libraries for linux and windows.  I couldn't get the linux sample to compile but I'm assuming that's my fault.  The windows sample works.  There are also ARM android libraries.  In the meantime, I'm going to play with the ffmpeg method.

[greynol4]

It seems there is interest in using the P2 Pro as a USB camera on PC and interpreting the content of the video stream, so I will share the experiments I made after receiving mine.

Basically I played with ffmpeg to extract raw data from the video stream.

The main finding is that the USB UVC device is exporting 2 video streams
- a 256x192 yuyv422 stream that contains a grayscale 8 bits normalized video that is directly exploitable (the 8 bits luminance channel is the temperature data and both chrominance channels are fixed values to give a colorless/grayscale result)
- a 256x384 yuyv422 stream that contains an exact copy of the previous stream in the upper half of the image and a greenish picture in the bottom half. This greenish picture is actually the raw non-normalized sensor values that are actually encoded in gray16le format (just 16 bits per pixel, in one grayscale channel, little-endian).

Examples playing with those video streams on a linux box:

Code: [Select]

# First of, find the device corresponding to your IR camera
v4l2-ctl --list-devices


Code: [Select]

# Check that the normalized stream works fine
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x192 -i /dev/video4


Code: [Select]

# Look a the combined streams
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4


Code: [Select]

# Use ffmpeg to grab the combined stream, crop to keep only the bottom half
# then pipe the raw data to ffplay and reinterpret it as gray16le.
# The resulting picture will be almost uniform gray due to the low range of
# the raw values in the 16 bits dynamic range.
# The raw values in a 0°C to 100°C environment ranges around 19000 to 24000
# (in a 0 to 65535 dynamic range).
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i -


Code: [Select]

# To make the resulting raw stream more useful, you can add a normalization filter
# followed by a pseudocolor filter with typical IR camera colors
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno'


Code: [Select]

# You can then play with pretty much infinitely long ffmpeg command lines
# For example, you can upscale the video stream, display the min and max raw
# values in the top left corner and add a time graph of the min and max values
# at the bottom
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'signalstats, split [main][secondary]; [main] normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno, scale=w=2*iw:h=2*ih, drawtext=x=3:y=3:borderw=1:bordercolor=white:fontfile=FreeSerif.ttf:text=MIN\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMIN}    MAX\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMAX} [thermal]; [secondary] drawgraph=m1=lavfi.signalstats.YMIN:fg1=0xFFFF9040:m2=lavfi.signalstats.YMAX:fg2=0xFF0000FF:bg=0x303030:min=18500:max=24500:slide=scroll:size=512x64 [graph]; [thermal][graph] vstack'



So the raw data from the sensor are very easily accessible. The only missing part is the conversion from raw values to actual temperatures. I don't know if some kind of calibration needs to be applied or if the raw values can be converted directly to temperatures with a simple fixed (linear ?) equation.
In my quick tests I derived the following equation to convert raw to °C but this is only a rough guesstimate: f(x) = (x - 19295) / 51.2857

There's several documents in the sdk pertaining to calibration and sensor data but the translations aren't great.  They might give you some insight though.

[kat]

One thing I noticed on my system, is that the ffmpeg method has a video lag of almost a second.
But getting the stream using mediaDevices.getUserMedia() does not produce this lag.

[greynol4]

I haven't had the lag issue with ffmpeg but I can't seem to get the pseudocolor filter to work.  Its saying option p not found which is weird.  I'm wondering if its a syntax issue since I'm using a pi.  Currently I'm playing with v4l2loopback to try and get it into an rtsp stream and I'll worry about the pseudocolor issue later.

[blargg]

Don't do what I did [cracked dark glass]. This isn't suitable for carrying in a pocket, even in its bag, with keys. This happened about a week after I received mine.

Just an update, Pergear offered to replace it with a new unit if I sent the old one back to their California address along with a $45 fee (20% of original price). That seems pretty generous for something entirely my fault. Glad I didn't buy from AliExpress etc. in China. The shipping alone would probably be that much.

[greynol4]

Don't do what I did [cracked dark glass]. This isn't suitable for carrying in a pocket, even in its bag, with keys. This happened about a week after I received mine.

Just an update, Pergear offered to replace it with a new unit if I sent the old one back to their California address along with a $45 fee (20% of original price). That seems pretty generous for something entirely my fault. Glad I didn't buy from AliExpress etc. in China. The shipping alone would probably be that much.

That's good to know if they really are standing behind the product but the pessimist in me is skeptical of the fact that the cost was suspiciously similar in price to a germanium window about that size.  If they can replace the window or housing and sell it as refurbished, they've made money, albeit a small sum, with very little effort.  My point being, did they see an opportunity to barely profit and appear to have amazing customer service?  I can't help wonder what they would do in other cases if it weren't an easy fix.

[mikexilva]

Well, after testing a Seek PRO and an amazingly Qianli, I decided to buy a P2 PRO wih macro Lens.
For 200€, I think this will be perfect for what I need/want!

After looking fro a thermal camera for a while and getting confused about the Uni-T 260M vs 721M (app on google play and not on play store...) I found this forum and now I'm looking to buy the P2 Pro also (mainly because the macro lens might be useful and software is on Google Play), where did you find your P2 Pro for that price? (I see you are from Portugal, does that include IVA?)

Regards,
Miguel

[greynol4]

So after a fair bit of swearing at my computer, I have successfully gotten a tiny1-b core attached to a raspberry pi to stream over rtsp to a dvr aside from a delay that occurs over the stream.  This should work for the p2 as well but the camera path might be different.

Setup is as follows:

Raspberry pi with bullseye - next step is to do it headless
FFmpeg must be upgraded because the bundled one is too old and predates the psuedocolor filter
Install rtsp-simple-server - configured as you want - run the service  VLC cant do rtsp using tcp apparently and rtsp simple server can so this might not even be an issue for you

Run

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -input_format gray16le -video_size 256x384 -r 25 -i /dev/video0 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2), normalize=smoothing=10, pseudocolor=p=inferno' -pix_fmt yuv420p -preset ultrafast -c:v libx264 -f rtsp rtsp://127.0.0.1:8554/path
This can be built into a script obviously but it's a proof of concept

Feel free to comment with thoughts, criticisms or suggestions

The code is adapted from what aurel provided a couple posts back

[blargg]

Don't do what I did [cracked dark glass].

Just an update, Pergear offered to replace it with a new unit if I sent the old one back to their California address along with a $45 fee (20% of original price). That seems pretty generous for something entirely my fault. Glad I didn't buy from AliExpress etc. in China. The shipping alone would probably be that much.

That's good to know if they really are standing behind the product but the pessimist in me is skeptical of the fact that the cost was suspiciously similar in price to a germanium window about that size.  If they can replace the window or housing and sell it as refurbished, they've made money, albeit a small sum, with very little effort.  My point being, did they see an opportunity to barely profit and appear to have amazing customer service?  I can't help wonder what they would do in other cases if it weren't an easy fix.

Yeah, maybe they did determine that the overall cost to them would be slight, and would have charged more or refused if it were not otherwise working. I'd like to replace it myself but don't know where to start on the right material (is it confirmed germanium?), thickness, transmission characteristics, coating?, and where one would be cheaper than that. I'll probably end up just making do with the cracked one as the tape on the corner is holding it together fine.

Raspberry pi with bullseye - next step is to do it headless
FFmpeg must be upgraded because the bundled one is too old and predates the psuedocolor filter

Does the older version support lut3d? You can use the ironbow.cube I recently posted to get the thermal coloring.

Code: [Select]

-vf lut3d=ironbow.cube


[Fraser]

The window can be Germanium or Chalcogenide IR glass. In some cases, very thin Silicon windows may be used. Silicon is not good at LWIR wavelengths so it has to be very thin and the cameras calibration has to take account of the transmission loss. A suitably AR coated window in eitherGermanium or Chalcogenide IR glass materials would cost as much, or more than, you are being asked to pay. The supplier is, in my opinion, being very fair to you.

The camera does not need that window to function but it’s calibration might be slightly off without it. Buying a generic window of different transmission figure would also mildly effect measurement accuracy.

Fraser

[greynol4]

I didn't mean to give you the impression that the fee was unfair, in fact it's probably cheaper than sourcing a window yourself and taking the time to replace it.  I was just pointing out that they might not be doing it out of the kindness of their heart or truly standing behind a product.

[dorin]

P.S. just noticed that on AE they also now list an iOS version, for those that care

Has anybody tried the iOS version so far? I find it strange that this version can only be found on Aliexpress, I mean there are stores in the EU (even the Infiray official on amazon.de) selling the android one but not the ios..

Edit: I contacted Amazon Seller - InfiRay Official Thermal Imaging Camera and they said "the iOS version is not available for the time being. It will be available for sale when it is available."

[mattcaves]

Yes, I have this problem too, very frustrating!

I have two Android phones, an old Nexus 5x that it works fine on, although it's really slow as the phone is so old. So I went and got a Nokia G21 on Vodafone PAYG especially for the P2 Pro, which is doing exactly this, it works for a couple of seconds and then just freezes. Sometimes it works for longer, but always freezes in the end.

I've written to the support email address for the app, we'll see if I get any response.

Cheers,
Matt

This issue is resolved on their latest app update on 12th Feb 2023.

I did get a response from my support email requesting a video of the issue, which I provided, then silence!

Took them about 4 weeks to fix it, with CNY in the middle not too bad, props to InfiRay for fixing it! 

[Hundleton1]

Hay everyone, been using the P2 Pro for a few months and wile I like it its definitely got some quirks.  I have just tried the Topcon App and its great to have a PC option, although has anyone noticed the resolution looks much less than on the phone app ?

Also I have having issues with the P2Pro Android app where the temp reading is 40C+ out all of the time. mostly at temps above 50c but its well over reading. Interestingly the Topcon app looks virtually bang on, Anyone come across this on the P2Pro app as well, I have tried the Sliders for room temp and distance but tbh its not solving it.

[yombo]

Hi! I've made a native C++ app for the Topdon TC-001 and the Infiray P2. It runs smooth on a Raspi4B, and of course on a PC.

It just displays the video (with fixed temperature range), and can record video, that's all for now. I'll see what I can do with it.

I do only own a TC-001 (it is a bit cheaper than the P2) This should work on a P2 and similar cameras that uses the mentioned earlier 16 bpp thermal raw format.
Thanks to all for the info provided on this thread.
It is only for Linux for now. The requirements are libv4l2 and OpenCV so it could be built for other systems.

Code and documentation are here:
https://github.com/yomboprime/yombir

The only quirk is that I only use the v4l video stream, I don't set any parameters via USB. I think that for this reason the camera sometimes readjusts the range or the optics by itself, making an audible clic and stopping the video for a second. I should read more deeply the code at the @LeoDJ 's repository.

The app displays the colored image in fullscreen and you can toggle recording by pressing enter. Press spacebar to exit.

There is a script to later convert (offline) the recorded raw files to colored .mp4 videos (optionally upscaled with linear interpolation)

(More info is in the README)

The second video I recorded:
https://youtu.be/NDmfXmaBHv4

Attached is a test image.

Greetings

[VanDusen]

FPV Thermal Cameras - InfiRay P2 Pro - short test flight & crash test

https://youtu.be/2cKUCA-EBAo

no special driver needed, just v4l2 and a client of your choice.

[DooMMasteR]

I have noticed that the camera develops a "significant" gradient when warming up. In case of my P2 Pro the "left" of the image becomes offset warmer and warmer over time but once it has reached thermal equlibrium and does not get any warmer, simply restarting the app (and there by triggering the shutter self correction) fixes the issue.

I wonder if the P2 Pro has an internal thermal sensor that could detect the thermals changing and reissues a self cal or at least promt the user about the issue.

On a side note: I also notices that setting the scale range manually in the P2 Pro app, does not actually expand the full color pallet to the selected range but just crops away the parts above and below, which is kind of stupid and does not increase the usable thermal resolution at all.

[greynol4]

I think your issue with the scale has to do with the p2 software not making full use of the hardware commands in the documentation.  The core is capable of a couple different temperature presets but I have yet to find a way to send the discrete commands to the core to explore that further.

[blubb]

I guess no one has found a firmware upgrae for their p2pro? Mine still does the flickering after a couple minutes of runtime. The andoird app states firmware version 3.04.09.01
I was hoping a FW-upgrade might fix the issue.

[pikasso]

Hellooo

First time on this forum.. as I just bought a Topdon camera and was willing to use connected to a Linux computer.. :-)

As it is, the TCView app in Windows works.. is not exceptionnal as the app on smartphone could be but works. Connected on a Linux computer it shows a Realtek camera
Using a local viewer to see the stream coming from the USB feed, I can see a black and white + green picture, I guess these are two lenses that are overlapsed to show not only infrared colors but layers overlayed.

Thanks to the above posts from greynol4 and others, but after a full recompilation of ffmpeg (to include the inferno filter) , I can confirm that the command below allows a feed through rtsp using VLC

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -input_format gray16le -video_size 256x384 -r 25 -i /dev/video0 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2), normalize=smoothing=10, pseudocolor=p=inferno' -pix_fmt yuv420p -preset ultrafast -c:v libx264 -f mpegts -|vlc -I dummy - --sout='#rtp{sdp=rtsp://:5555} --sout-all --sout-keep'

[Cliff Matthews]

Diode Gone wild just posted a P2 review. I'm hoping that price will drop a bit.

[LesWright]

This is a very cool thread for a very cool device! I was offered a Topdon TC001 for a product review, so I have written pure Python software, which works on the Raspberry Pi 4 and I am hosting it here: https://github.com/leswright1977/PyThermalCamera/


If you are interested in the review and a demo of the Python Software here is the video (I don't get paid for it, just thought it might be useful):

[Vestom]

They're sending me a T2S to look at - as far as I can tell trom the website, it's basically the same as the P2 but with an adjustable lens, which should be more convenient.

So did you ever get around to test the T2S and form an opinion about the pros and cons compares to the P2 Pro? It was a really nice review you did of the P2 Pro 

I have a bit of trouble to decide between the T2S+ and the P2 Pro. They are currently very similar in price.

Perceived cons/pros of the P2 Pro:
+ Very small
+ Very large depth of field with fixed focus. (20cm to infinity according to Frasers review)
- Needs fixed macro lens for closer than 20cm inspection
- Fixed macro lens has shallow depth of field at appx 25mm.
- No hard case included
- P2 Pro App is crashy and glitchy according to reviews

Perceived cons/pros of the T2S+:
+ Included hard case
+ Built-in variable focus macro lens capable of focusing to ~1cm according to some reviews on youtube
+ Included pistol grip (not really sure, I want to use it though...)
+ May have slightly better image quality than P2 Pro due to the S0 core?? (according to Fraser - no comparison seen)
- Variable focus lens may have shallower depth of field for more general use >20cm ?? (No info found)
- Slightly chunkier case than the P2 Pro
- Slightly less maximum temperature span than the P2 Pro (450C versus 550C)
- Xtherm app is perhaps even less functional than the P2 Pro app?

Hope someone can enlighten me a bit 

[mikeselectricstuff]

They're sending me a T2S to look at - as far as I can tell trom the website, it's basically the same as the P2 but with an adjustable lens, which should be more convenient.

So did you ever get around to test the T2S and form an opinion about the pros and cons compares to the P2 Pro? It was a really nice review you did of the P2 Pro 

Yes, but the app sucked in ways that  I don't recall now - I think one was you couldn't reorient the image when using with a cable, but there may have been others, so I never bothered doing a review.

[Fraser]

Sadly Infiray did not respond when I offered to review their other offerings, so I cannot comment on the T2 series either. I think Infiray want positive video reviews of their products and written reviews are too “old school” for them. Infiray and I did not fall out, they just ghosted me after I wrote the review  It could possibly be due to a particularly unpleasant and very unbalanced individual who sells Infiray cameras as he made all sorts of untrue and nasty claims in foul language filled tirades against myself and Dave LJ when he got banned from this forum. He said he would “poison the well” at Infiray against me. A pity as I really wanted to highlight the capabilities of the latest generations of thermal cameras and microbolometers coming out of Asia. Such is life though 

Fraser

[tautech]

Yet thank you Fraser and Mike for the info and reviews and after watching more videos my finger now hovers over the T2S+ Buy Now from Infiray.
They are a touch dearer than their resellers but ship DHL which in NZ I'll have in a week.

A link to their downloads:
https://www.xinfrared.com/pages/download-center

[slavoy]

I have both the T2L and T2S+ thermo cameras, and they both work exceptionally well for electronic diagnostics. The T2S+ has a wide temperature range, while the T2L has two smaller ranges, which can be inconvenient. Apart from that and a slight difference in measurement accuracy, they are essentially the same.
I am not aware of a better thermal camera than T2S+ (for electronics) even within the $1000 price range currently. And this is for about $300
-25fps
-adjustable focus
-adequate resolution
-low noise
-wide temperature range
-PC apps
What more could one ask for? I never meant to use it with Android smartphone, so I don't care about mobile apps. I read that they suck.

[slavoy]

It appears that InfiRay has changed the new T2S+ cameras firmware to "V2" and now the image is not detected by any application. It only works properly with the original Android app on a smartphone, which significantly limits its functionality.

[Vestom]

Got my T2S+ today - and my initial tests seem to confirm my expectations: Great camera (for the price)!    Crappy Android app 

The included pistol grip is nicely made - but it seems unnecessary and bulky and I would rather have saved the odd 20 EUR. You can just hold the small camera in the end of the included cable instead. Now, if only the app allowed manual rotation of the image...

Edit: According to the Android app the camera has "soft version: 2.06.220117", but the camera is detected fine by my PC and works as a normal (IR) webcam. I have not yet tried other Android apps. Any recommendations of better alternative apps are welcome?

[slavoy]

soft version: 2.06.220117

If it is not shown as "T2S+_V2" then it will work with all the software for T2L.

[Squiffy]

Having read the thread, in which there were a couple of suggestions for cases, has anyone since found anything else that would be suitable?

[mita]

Hi Frazer,

First thank you your extensive information about P2 Pro. Regarding the OTG connection I am asking your help, still waiting for the answer from Infiray support.

I wrote the following to the support:

----------
Hi,

I purchased an Infiray P2 Pro for Android device, SN:xxxxx.

I tried to install and use the camera with a Redmi Note 7 Pro with Android 10, MIU version: MIU Global 12.5.1.
Installed the P2 Pro software from the Playstore, software version: 1.09.230213.  Started the app and I got the following message:
"Please plug in the device and turn on the OTG function".
Connected the camera to the phone and nothing is happening, the message is staying on the screen see the attached screenshot.

OTG Checker app gives green checkmark for USB Manager, USB Host and USB devices list. Using an OTG supported USB-A to USB-C adapter USB pendrive recognized automatically and function well on the Redmi.
On the other hand there is no OTG switch on-off menu in this version of Android 10. 

The camera getting a bit warm after 10 minutes of connected state to the phone.

Please advise how to proceed forward to be able to use the camera,

-----------

For an unknow reason for me it seems that the android sw is not able to recognize the camera. The phone support the OTG function according to the speification. Unfortunately the manual switch mode of OTG is removed from the settings menu, Android should recognize the attached device and switched the OTG mode automatically.

Tomorrow I will have a canche to try the camera with a Samsung S7 -  Android 13 patched - with an OTG supported USB-C to USB-micro converter. I am a bit sceptical about this test because the Android 13 settings has no manual OTG switching as well, it is automatic. Plus the converter could be a problem as well. We will see.
 
Hope you have some information how to proceed forward on this,

Regards,

Mihaly 

[mita]

Happy to report the P2 Pro camera is working with Samsung S7 Edge - Android 13 Lineage distro  - using an OTG verified USB-C to USB-Micro adapter. Be aware of Redmi Note 7 Pro with Android 10, MIU version: MIU Global 12.5.1. users: the automatic OTG function may not be working with devices drawing high current. An USB stick is working well, but the camera does not. This problem is reported by other users as well, only this SW version is affected - international ROM.

[Fraser]

Sadly this is a risk with buying Thermal Dongle format thermal cameras. Unlike designing for an iOS phone, a manufacturer has to design for a very variable environment that is the Android phone ecosystem. The hardware can vary greatly and there are many versions and variants of the operating system in use. This makes it very hard to ensure that a dongle camera will work with all phones and equally well across a large range of phone specifications. FLIR designed their Android FLIR One G2 to operate well with a Samsung S5 model that was a current performance model. They told me that it was a real challenge to design a camera that would work with a range of hardware platforms and they used the Samsung S5 as a reference phone. They even admitted that they found it hard to get the performance of the FLIR One G2 equal to that of the  iOS version as software fine tuning was more restricted in order to maintain broad platform compatibility.

Fraser

[PaulDamian]

Hello,
I've bought myself a P2 Pro.
Windows sees it as USB\VID_0BDA&PID_5830&MI_00\6&3E3B7C5&0&0000
Software version 1.0.9.230213
Firmware version 3.07.11.00
However, as of today, it works with none of the other Android apps mentioned in this thread. Only the "P2 Pro" app recognizes it.

[mita]

Thank you your background info. Meantime I used it on iPhone motherboard with macro lens and it is amazing. Finding hard shorts are so much easier with this camera.

[hcet14]

However, as of today, it works with none of the other Android apps mentioned in this thread. Only the "P2 Pro" app recognizes it.

You may have a look here. ... but be careful about the Thermal Eye X version as Clean Unbox mentioned in the review.

[nikitasius]

Got my X2 today

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-t2-series-trying-to-understand/msg5032900/#msg5032900

[joechina]

As Apple anounced that iPadOS v17 will support external web cams, I wonder if anybody had tried the beta of v17 on an iPad Pro with the Infiray thermal camera?

Any success it rus on an iPad with USB-C?

[rernexy]

Been wondering about a similar thing: the new iPhone 15 series now uses USB-C, not Lightning. So can the "Android" P2 Pro's be used with the iPhone 15's?

[ksxx]

I just found out that the raw data of the P2 Pro seems to be embedded in the jpeg file. When you open a P2 pro jpg file in the digikam desktop app, the metadata panel on the right shows you the overview of the extra information in the ExifTool tab. The actual raw data seems to be in the APP3 segment (never heard of the APP segments before...). I have attached sample metadata copied from digikam that does not include the real binary raw image data block. I have tried to extract the raw data with Exiftool but only managed to get a  formatted dump of all metadata using the -v5 option. There is also a thread on the exiftool forum where a similar situation for a DJI thermal camera is discussed: https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11401.msg61816#msg61816
I really like the camera but the software kinda sucks. Extracting the raw data and making your own plots and analysis would improve the situation.

[RuneHansen]

 https://discord.gg/3zq3zXFA8B

[ksxx]

I did some more testing and at least was able to get an image out of the APP3 data that looks the same as the original image. This image does not change when you edit it in phone app and save it, so I assume it is the temp data. The temperature scaling is unclear to me and I found no scaling factors in the exif metadata.
It looks like the original app is unclear about the scaling as well! The extreme case is when you edit an image recorded with the high T range (550C max). Then the edited image shows a temperature more than twice as low as temp show during recording... I found substantial differences also for images recorded in the high res/low T mode.


python test code:

Code: [Select]

from PIL import Image
import numpy as np
import matplotlib.pyplot as plt

# The APP3 block is 294912 bytes in size
# This corresponds to 6bytes/pixel for a sensor size of 256*192
# 256*192 = 49152 = 0xC000
# 294912/256/6 = 192
# 65532*4 + 32784 = 294912


im = Image.open("cold.JPG")

# concatenate APP3 chunks of data. It is 6Bytes of data per pixel...
# played around with the code given here: https://exiftool.org/forum/index.php?topic=11401.msg61816#msg61816
a = im.applist[2][1]
print(len(im.applist[2][1]))
for i in range(3, 7):
    a += im.applist[i][1]
print(len(a))
# create image from bytes
# https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/stable/handbook/concepts.html#concept-modes
# this setting at least gives an image that looks like the original thermal image. Details unclear..
img = Image.frombytes('I;16B', (256, 192), a)


'''
Exif Info:
FactStatusGain:
large range : 1
low range : 0
'''

# what scaling to apply??? There seems to be no scaling factors in the exif that change with the min max range of the thermal image -> Absolute scaling
temps = np.array(img,dtype=np.float32)

print(temps.min(),temps.max())

# still need to apply formula to image to convert raw sensor values to temps

#np.savetxt('temps.csv', temps, delimiter=',')

#plt.imshow(temps.astype(np.uint), cmap="inferno")
plt.imshow(temps, cmap="inferno")
plt.show()



[EuT]

Hi everyone,

I noticed that my P2 pro starts to flicker after a couple of minutes of run time. After I plug it in, it works ok at first. But then I get a 1-2 brighter frames every few seconds. The bright frames have all pixel values increased by about ~10-20 (8-bit greyscale). This continues until I unplug and restart the camera. Same behavior on Win10/11 with VLC capture and on Android with InfirayGo. The problem is visible directly in live viewer and occurs with and without the macro lens.

Anyone else with this problem?

I have the same flickering effect on my TS2+ camera. The temperature jumps 2-3 times/s randomly for about 0.1-0.3 C synchronously over all frame.
It is not noticeable when looking at the scene with T range of 10-20 C but is very unpleasant at range of 2 C when I analyze small T changes of the target.
Anybody has similar issue with Infiray cameras?

Link to AVI file showing this flickering of TS2+ camera:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zjP1IvHav-HJ3hCshbGf20eOVbXfPgED/view?usp=sharing

T range in this video is 1.5C for full color scale.
Video captured in IRCAM Thermal Viewer

[kristjana]

Has anyone been able to alter the gain mode of the camera and still come up with accurate temperature measures? We have it working in high gain mode with [x/16 - 273] but switching to low gain mode gives us completely different numbers

[Pinörkel]

Hello,
I got myself a P2 Pro a few days ago and had some time playing with it connected to a windows PC. Here are some of my findings and issues:
The P2 Pro is usually installed as a simple USB video device, which can be accessed via any software that can handle a webcam. In this mode, the cam shows a YUY2 formatted 256x192 gray-scale image and, if you can configure the software to use the second possible frame format (256x384) the lower half of the frame contains the raw data. Just like the one of @PaulDamian, my P2 Pro Hardware has the VID: 0BDA and the PID: 5830, which means that most of the usual Tiny1C drivers cannot be installed, because they expect a PID of 5840. That said, my P2 Pro does not work with any of the usual PCXthermDemo-based windows tools. Most of them are able to detect the camera, but as soon as they try to trigger advanced functionality like the gain mode or any shutter related functionality, they just crash instantaneously. This is most likely because the PID 5830 P2 Pro with the default usbvideo driver does not seem to be capable of executing the respective usb commands. Forcing one of the Tiny1C drivers to be installed for the P2 Pro can be done, but then the P2 Pro does no longer work in webcam mode and also cannot be detected by any PCXthermDemo-based windows tools. This is most likely because they expect a device PID of 5840 in this case.

The only tool that worked out of the box but offered no advanced calibration and shutter features in its trial version was the IRCAM Thermal Viewer which can be found in the Microsoft app store.

After analyzing the P2 Pro app, which works with my camera, I discovered that it most likely accesses the camera by using the libuvc and libusb-1.0 libraries. So I put together a little c++ program to access the camera, but it did not work until I replaced the default usbvideo driver in windows with a libusbK driver using the Zadig tool. This also killed the ability of the cam to be used as a webcam, but after replacing the driver, I was able to get images via libuvc, extract the lower RAW data part of the image and convert the contained 14 bit data by normalizing the image, rescaling it to 8 bit and doing some sharpening, resizing and color mapping. It is worth mentioning that the obtained image looked good, but not as sharp as the P2 Pro's own gray-scale image in the upper part of the frame, which seemed to be sharper and produced better contrasts in darker areas.

Until now, I have found no way to change the sensor range, activate the sensor protection or activate a NUC function on my P2 Pro (does it even have shutter control?). The latter would be especially useful, since the P2 Pro has a pronounced noise pattern, which becomes very visible in the image when rotating the camera. I also discovered a seemingly sensor temperature dependent blotch in the lower left corner of the images of my P2 Pro that seems like there is kind of a spec on the sensor or the internal lens (see attached images). It is very subtle when starting the camera in a cold state, but gets more and more pronounced as the camera temperature is rising after a few minutes. I am pretty sure this blotch was not there during the first two days of use and it is also visible in the RAW data portion of the images(the green part with the inadequate YUY2 conversion). Has anybody else spotted something like that on their P2 Pro? Or maybe it is a sensor defect and I should get my P2 Pro replaced?

[smile]

I would like to report a bug on app version 1.0.9.230213

This is latest version available today 2023-11-01.



This bug when editing taken images in P2 pro editor, the dots and rectangles used to measure temperature show incorrect temperature.

I attach image demonstrating this bug.



Image 1698859252119 is original image, max temperature is 105.5C

Image 1698861648444 is same image edited, max temperature is 80.5C

 

This is 20C less then first image for same image.

[smile]

Hello, fellows hosting "fake" "electronics repair" channels like:

Jason from STS Telecom
Learn Electronics Repair
Electronics Repair School

I'm sure I can get this list going like +20 more. You all received and reviewed the Infiray P2 Pro.
You praised it and said it's best since sliced bread. You also said you use it in your workshop.

But how did you miss this bug above? because you could not notice that editing images later shows incorrect temperatures up to 20C for 100C temperature. And this is not new bug. It's been since release of the camera in
2023-Jun at least this is the time I got it. I have a FLIR capable phone so I used it for that. But this is ridiculous as is.

On the other hand I understand that when your income is Youtube, you can't be good repair tech to begin with. At least when you constantly complain about monetization. And these channels did just that. I was amazed at first.

So nothing personal, to the owners of these channels. Just business.


Bug been confirmed by Infiray and soon to be fixed.
"I have reported this to our engineers and this will be fixed soon. Will keep you updated."

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hello, fellows hosting "fake" "electronics repair" channels like:

Jason from STS Telecom
Learn Electronics Repair
Electronics Repair School

I'm sure I can get this list going like +20 more. You all received and reviewed the Infiray P2 Pro.
You praised it and said it's best since sliced bread. You also said you use it in your workshop.

But how did you miss this bug above? because you could not notice that editing images later shows incorrect temperatures up to 20C for 100C temperature. And this is not new bug. It's been since release of the camera in
2023-Jun at least this is the time I got it. I have a FLIR capable phone so I used it for that. But this is ridiculous as is.

On the other hand I understand that when your income is Youtube, you can't be good repair tech to begin with. At least when you constantly complain about monetization. And these channels did just that. I was amazed at first.

I use the P2 a lot and have never saved an image,
Not covering every single feature does not render a reviee worthleds as you seem to be implying.

[smile]

I use the P2 a lot and have never saved an image,

Well any pro user will take shots on site, then edit analyze them. Quickly changing conditions demand editing later.
Comparing different palettes also demand editing later.

If you never use editing, then contact CAT tell them how stupid their editor is demanding GPS to be ON for it to save reports.

Not covering every single feature does not render a reviee worthleds as you seem to be implying.

Well for a hobby review yes that is true, if you get paid to do reviews it's stupid (why look stupid in your own reviews) and disrespectful for the brand you are reviewing. Just pray next time you go to the doctor that the doctor does his job better then reviewer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I use the P2 a lot and have never saved an image,

Well any pro user will take shots on site, then edit analyze them. Quickly changing conditions demand editing later.
Comparing different palettes also demand editing later.

You seem to be oblivious to the fact that different people use the product for very different purposes.
For example I, and likely many others here, use it on the bench, not on site, typically for relative measurements for realtime faultfinding.

To make broad statements about what 'any pro user' would or would do is meaningless without context of the application.

[Cliff Matthews]

Mine will be delivered next week. Any suggestions for use on Linux? Will a 6.2 Kernel already have the drivers I need?

[Aku]

Hello everyone.
Got me a T2 pro with USB-C for android. Got Xiaomi mi 8, OTG is on. Application just doesn't see camera. Only original application says Xinfrared says "this version is not compatible with android 10". PC apps from manufacturer's website also don't see it. Support tries to give me another version of APK, but it's all the same. They already suggest to try another phone. Some random samsung also didn't react. Only PC sees it as web camera. Telegram shows some green noise as image, it does even react in a way on hand wave.
Any advice on what to do? Return to store?

[Evi]

Exactly the same thing.

[Pinörkel]

@Aku & Evi: Did you ensure to give the camera and the app all necessary access rights? The P2pro app was not able to detect the camera on the devices I tried, unless I also gave it permission to access location based services.

[Aku]

@Pinörkel
I press yes on any it wants. Switched forced OTG and USB debugging. Or do I need something else?

[Evi]

Quote from: Pinörkel on Today at 02:16:32

@Aku & Evi: Did you ensure to give the camera and the app all necessary access rights? The P2pro app was not able to detect the camera on the devices I tried, unless I also gave it permission to access location based services.

P2pro - the only that works.

[ergya]

Hi everyone, I've just got a P2 Pro. Works but noticed the unit itself is making random clicking noises (either the shutter or the focus) every 10-30 seconds or similar (rather random), even if I don't move the camera (-> focus) at all. There is an option called "Video Automatic Shutter Switch", I tried both state, not changing anyhting. Anyone else having the same or knows how to fix this?

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hi everyone, I've just got a P2 Pro. Works but noticed the unit itself is making random clicking noises (either the shutter or the focus) every 10-30 seconds or similar (rather random), even if I don't move the camera (-> focus) at all. There is an option called "Video Automatic Shutter Switch", I tried both state, not changing anyhting. Anyone else having the same or knows how to fix this?

This is normal.

[tautech]

Hi everyone, I've just got a P2 Pro. Works but noticed the unit itself is making random clicking noises (either the shutter or the focus) every 10-30 seconds or similar (rather random), even if I don't move the camera (-> focus) at all. There is an option called "Video Automatic Shutter Switch", I tried both state, not changing anyhting. Anyone else having the same or knows how to fix this?

This is normal.

Good normal or normal = weird ?

[Pinörkel]

Good normal. That is just the shutter closing and opening for non uniformity correction (NUC). Without that, you would only see an extremely noisy image. The periodic NUC calibration is necessary to account for the changing sensor and device temperature. After a cold start of the camera, you can actually see a non-NUC corrected image before the first shutter click.

[ergya]

Good normal. That is just the shutter closing and opening for non uniformity correction (NUC). Without that, you would only see an extremely noisy image. The periodic NUC calibration is necessary to account for the changing sensor and device temperature. After a cold start of the camera, you can actually see a non-NUC corrected image before the first shutter click.

Thanks everyone for helping, interesting to know. Wonder though how "badly" this will reduce the lifespan of the P2 Pro.

[Bob_McBob]

Is there any way to record video on an Android phone without using a screen recorder? It's completely broken in the P2 Pro app in any recent version of Android, and it doesn't seem like they ever intend to fix it. Does this affect other Infiray products? Is there a similar alternative product I should consider? Very frustrating since it's quite reasonable otherwise.

[Pinörkel]

Thanks everyone for helping, interesting to know. Wonder though how "badly" this will reduce the lifespan of the P2 Pro.

Mechanical parts are, of course susceptible to mechanical damage caused by using them. Camera internal shutters have the additional disadvantage that they are very inaccessible to repair attempts, while external shutter assemblies in more expensive setups can be replaced. If you are interested in some understanding of shuttered and shutter-less operation of thermal cameras, maybe this article contains some useful information: https://www.axiomoptics.com/blog/understanding-shuttered-vs-shutterless-operation-of-an-uncooled-lwir-camera/

[Evi]

My P2 Pro does not click the shutter.
But image is OK

[blargg]

Is there any way to record video on an Android phone without using a screen recorder?

nExt Camera works with my P2 Pro and records very smooth 25 FPS video (and audio with the mic!), just no temperature information. The Topdon TC001 app also works with my P2 Pro and has all the temperature tools (The Topdon unit basically uses the same Infiray camera as the P2 Pro).

[Bob_McBob]

nExt Camera works with my P2 Pro and records very smooth 25 FPS video (and audio with the mic!), just no temperature information. The Topdon TC001 app also works with my P2 Pro and has all the temperature tools (The Topdon unit basically uses the same Infiray camera as the P2 Pro).

nExt Camera works for me, but there doesn't seem to be a way to rotate the video to the correct orientation, and without temperature display it isn't a whole lot of use unfortunately. The TC001 app just displays a black screen and temperature of zero kelvin. My P2 Pro is brand new, perhaps they made a change that breaks compatibility?

[Bob_McBob]

I did some further testing. Apparently support for the P2 Pro was removed from the TC001 app at some point. I'm using an older APK from January and it records video fine and functions perfectly. I also tried some older versions of the actual P2 Pro app with no success. Videos come out looking like this no matter what I do. I'm not sure if it makes sense to keep the P2 Pro if I have to rely on old versions of the wrong app continuing to work in Android. It would be a bummer to lose the macro lens, but there are somewhat more expensive standalone products, as well as the TC001 of course.

[ksxx]

I did some further testing. Apparently support for the P2 Pro was removed from the TC001 app at some point. I'm using an older APK from January and it records video fine and functions perfectly.

Can you tell the source for the old APK? I couldnt find it yet. thanks!

[ksxx]

ok, I found it on apkpure... 

[Bob_McBob]

ok, I found it on apkpure... 

Yep, APKPure is very handy for this. Note that you have to disable auto updates for the app and decline whenever it asks you in the app itself.

[bostwickenator]

That video corruption issue is present on the pixel 8 devices. Not sure about other pixel phones. Doesn't happen on Samsung. I tried reverse engineering their app but they've made it non trivial. Looks to me like they have flipped the row and column lengths they supply to their internal FFmpeg library.

[christosnc]

Hello,

I have a P2 Pro and I'm trying to read the raw temp data. Thank you to all members who provided so much info!

TLDR: I get the bottom half of the image (raw data) but there are some issues. I see some clipping zones, and also the first row is completely wrong.

This is the ffmpeg command I use (I'm on a mac, change -f avfoundation to something else if you are on another platform)

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -f avfoundation -framerate 25 -pixel_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i 'USB Camera' -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -framerate 25 -i - -vf 'normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48'

I also wrote a small program to get some readings, and the temp data (min, max, average) are about the same as in the android app. Except the first row (first 256 pixels), which is way off (~78ºC instead of ~20). The same can be also seen with the ffmpeg command shown above (white line on top).

The other obvious issue is the clipping/noise (you can clearly see it in the image, around the fingers). Those clipping patterns/areas are also visible in the greenish wrongly-parsed preview as well, exactly in the same positions but more pronounced.

I am just getting the bottom half of the stream, treating it as 2-bytes per pixel, little endian and that's it. In code I also tried to do some linear AGC scaling but the clipping/noise areas are still there. They do change on each calibration (shutter cycle of the camera)

Any help? I'm I missing something, is there some further processing that has to be done? (Thanks!)

[EDIT]

It looks like the issue is with ffmpeg. Somehow it messes-up the data, not giving actual raw values (or maybe the options I pass are not correct). With opencv I'm able to get proper data.

[smile]

Since IRCAM Thermal Viewer gone commercial by surprise and author is greedy bastard, I found worthy alternative for PC users.
PCXthermDemo
https://mega.nz/file/ViokiDjY#Ks6oYCTqVYnPhxVKK8ScOpNL2IhrvqTerYp8FLyuWOc


Sharp Infrared Analyzer 0.6.3 updateable
https://www.upload.ee/files/16057777/SharpInfraredAnalyzer-Setup_0.6.3.rc.exe.html

[Evi]

PCXthermDemo_v2r9 and PCXthermDemo_v2r11 crashed on Win10.

Sharp Infrared Analyzer 0.6.3 seems to work

[Pinörkel]

Attention there... that Sharp Infrared Analyzer 0.6.3 file is ringing every virus scanner bell available in this part of germany.

Aside from that, from Windows 7/10/11, I found that a quite reliable way to get data from the P2 Pro is by installing libusbK with zadig and then use libusb to get the image data. I am also digging my way to get a solution working that includes the command interface. For this, I contacted the surprisingly good customer support at Infiray and got two seemingly beta state SDK compilations. The older one has all the code for the command interface and the newer one is encapsulating that in a separate lib with no source available, but with a better usable set of interface functions. The SDK is a modified version of  libuvc and among other things adds still image support and the command interface. The catch is: the current state does not work out of the box, but needs some bug fixing. Apart form one bug in the startup code or the resource management, which temporarily locks up the camera, I managed to solve the issues and communicated the solutions back to Infiray. In contrast to what everyone in the "IRCAM Thermal Viewer" bubble is willing to communicate, the command interface is no longer a repurposed UVC standard function for setting the absolute zoom that is fed with some 4-digit hexadecimal commands. Instead, the RTS5840/5830 chip  is used to relay I2C commands to the Tiny1C IR assembly. Once I get this working, I will forward the solution to Infiray, to make it available for everyone for free. Until now, they seemed pretty motivated to make the P2 Pro a great experience for everyone.

[Pinörkel]

Just in case you would find this useful: I just fiddled together a pull request for LeoDJs P2 Pro python project (https://github.com/LeoDJ/P2Pro-Viewer), that can access the camera via OpenCV and send some commands to the P2 Pro. The pull request adds commands for shutter control, basic NUC calibration (against shutter or background), and gain switching. There are additional Windows(7/10/11) specific add-ons for that in my fork of the project (https://github.com/Pinoerkel/P2Pro-Viewer), including a little command interface. Because this uses OpenCV, it should work without additional drivers in Windows, and with minor changes in LINUX as christosnc confirmed.

[ksxx]

The auto update thing is a bit of a pain with the Topdon app. In case of an accidental update the older version is quickly reinstalled though. I tested the versions available on apkpure and the last one that works and is available as an apk (and not apkx) is the Mai 31 version (2.00.003).
Unfortunately the original P2pro app is utterly garbage when it comes to measurements. The point and rectangle measurements and the provided statistics are obviously not correct while the topdon app gives reasonable values. Things get much worse when one tries to analyse existing images. Then the measurement data is completely useless. Also a recent update of the infiray app did not change anything in this respect. If had known this before I would have choosen the topdon or some other camera instead.

[mikepcw]

Code: [Select]

ffmpeg -input_format gray16le -video_size 256x384 -r 25 -i /dev/video0 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2), normalize=smoothing=10, pseudocolor=p=inferno' -pix_fmt yuv420p -preset ultrafast -c:v libx264 -f rtsp rtsp://127.0.0.1:8554/path

How can I add @aurel's postprocessing filters (drawtext and graph) that use ffplay into your rtsp output?
I would like to create a stream for my frigate to consume.

[Bob_McBob]

The auto update thing is a bit of a pain with the Topdon app. In case of an accidental update the older version is quickly reinstalled though. I tested the versions available on apkpure and the last one that works and is available as an apk (and not apkx) is the Mai 31 version (2.00.003).
Unfortunately the original P2pro app is utterly garbage when it comes to measurements. The point and rectangle measurements and the provided statistics are obviously not correct while the topdon app gives reasonable values. Things get much worse when one tries to analyse existing images. Then the measurement data is completely useless. Also a recent update of the infiray app did not change anything in this respect. If had known this before I would have choosen the topdon or some other camera instead.

I'm going to return my P2 Pro because of the app issues. This isn't just a minor bug, it's been a year and they haven't fixed it. I'll have to rethink my options, because clearly you cannot rely on app support for these devices. Annoying because the macro attachment is handy.

[smile]

Attention there... that Sharp Infrared Analyzer 0.6.3 file is ringing every virus scanner bell available in this part of germany.

The Nod32 antivirus is silent, Kaspersky also silent.

[smile]

To me the biggest problem is that infiray does not respond to emails, like I tried 3 different emails. How can one trust such company?

[ksxx]

My p2pro seems to give reasonable temp readings at 20C and above (tested and compared with other thermometers). Today I tried it outside at T~-1C. It gave readings for the houses wall of -30C and the window region of -10C! I checked both the p2pro and the topdon app - same result. Then I tried to measure the freezer (inside the house) with its door open. This should be somewhere around -18C. Also getting -30C here. While the temp readings are wrong, I still get a good image contrast, so the problem seems to be in the conversion function and not the sensor itself. Finally I did a series of measurements warming up a cup of cold water, starting at 1C. See the results in the table below. Clearly the error increases drastically towards 0C. Maybe infiray did confuse 0C vs 0K as the absolute zero.... Anything seems possible. Has anyone else with a P2Pro observed this behaviour or is my camera defective???

| ref | P2 |
| ---- | ---- |
| 1 | -5 |
| 2 | -3 |
| 4 | 1 |
| 5 | 2 |
| 6.5 | 4 |
| 7 | 5 |
| 7.5 | 6.5 |
| 9 | 8.5 |

[jdubs]

I'm getting antsy waiting for iPhone 15 support of the native USB-C P2 Pro. If anyone happens to be at CES this week, would you mind stopping by Infiray's booth and maybe poking them about it a little? Thanks!

[PositiveAltitude]

Well, I think the major problem here is physics  . At low temperatures the IR emission is low and the reflected radiation becomes the dominant factor. I just tried to take a look in my freezer - the numbers are all over the place despite I think everything there is relatively the same temperature. Why? because different materials reflect & emit IR at different rates. Ideally, you should use proper emission values in the sensor setting when you take measures of a specific material. And because the emission depends on temperature exponentially this is crucial at low temperatures. So technically I think the low-temperature limit of the device is just a temperature where errors become too much. Maybe you can have more-or-less good results at -10C but you MUST calibrate for material in this range while in +20C it is not that critical.

[ksxx]

all valid arguments but I think this does not explain the wrong temperature readings. Consider the outside experiment for example. There the whole environment (all heat sources except my body) was around -1C and the window areas a little warmer. No reason here to show -30C. For the open freezer the temperature should be higher if there was much reflection from heat sources around it and not lower.

[G28]

My p2pro seems to give reasonable temp readings at 20C and above (tested and compared with other thermometers). Today I tried it outside at T~-1C. It gave readings for the houses wall of -30C and the window region of -10C! I checked both the p2pro and the topdon app - same result. Then I tried to measure the freezer (inside the house) with its door open. This should be somewhere around -18C. Also getting -30C here. While the temp readings are wrong, I still get a good image contrast, so the problem seems to be in the conversion function and not the sensor itself. Finally I did a series of measurements warming up a cup of cold water, starting at 1C. See the results in the table below. Clearly the error increases drastically towards 0C. Maybe infiray did confuse 0C vs 0K as the absolute zero.... Anything seems possible. Has anyone else with a P2Pro observed this behaviour or is my camera defective???

| ref | P2 |
| ---- | ---- |
| 1 | -5 |
| 2 | -3 |
| 4 | 1 |
| 5 | 2 |
| 6.5 | 4 |
| 7 | 5 |
| 7.5 | 6.5 |
| 9 | 8.5 |

FWIW, I have the Topdon TC001 (which supposedly uses the same internals as the P2 Pro) and wrote my own C/C++ app based from Les Wright's Python script.

https://github.com/92es/Thermal-Camera-Redux

When I tested it on my frozen goods, it measured the same as my freezer thermometer.  Granted, neither are lab grade, but both were in sync. 

The app is free and you are welcome to see if it performs any better than the OEM app.  It has already been run on a P2 Pro.

Also, if you have a known delta curve, I could add an optional calibration filter to the app, similar to microphone calibration filters.

[ksxx]

When I tested it on my frozen goods, it measured the same as my freezer thermometer.  Granted, neither are lab grade, but both were in sync. 

Looks like cool a app - thank you! Since I am on windows and have no real hardware Linux box around I cannot test it at the moment (and I dont know how to compile it on windows). However this triggered me to look at the older python code and I tried to get it to work for me. The simple linear temperature conversion posted here in this thread earlier works well, but again I see the same temperature error at low temperatures as with the manufacturer apps. Looks like both the topdon and the infiray app display the normal (upper) video stream as an image. This image looks ok and has contrast also for cold objects. The raw stream (lower half) clips to -30.2C for everything below ~0C and is completely featureless in the cold areas.
If my camera is not an exception, this may point to an internal problem of the Infiray models but I have to do some more testing here. It would be nice if someone with a P2Pro could test their camera on frozen objects to clarify this issue.

stripped down python code to stream video from the cam and temperature conversion here (using the cv2 package)
https://gist.github.com/ks00x/af520dbba1ada0fbdc5e5d6582b22e55#file-p2prolive-py-L10

[G28]

When I tested it on my frozen goods, it measured the same as my freezer thermometer.  Granted, neither are lab grade, but both were in sync. 

Looks like cool a app - thank you! Since I am on windows and have no real hardware Linux box around I cannot test it at the moment (and I dont know how to compile it on windows). However this triggered me to look at the older python code and I tried to get it to work for me. The simple linear temperature conversion posted here in this thread earlier works well, but again I see the same temperature error at low temperatures as with the manufacturer apps. Looks like both the topdon and the infiray app display the normal (upper) video stream as an image. This image looks ok and has contrast also for cold objects. The raw stream (lower half) clips to -30.2C for everything below ~0C and is completely featureless in the cold areas.
If my camera is not an exception, this may point to an internal problem of the Infiray models but I have to do some more testing here. It would be nice if someone with a P2Pro could test their camera on frozen objects to clarify this issue.

stripped down python code to stream video from the cam and temperature conversion here (using the cv2 package)
https://gist.github.com/ks00x/af520dbba1ada0fbdc5e5d6582b22e55#file-p2prolive-py-L10

I believe the original python script had some bugs in it with respect to temp calculations.  It was not calculating all the temps consistently using both bytes.

You can try this one to see if it behaves any better.

[ksxx]

I believe the original python script had some bugs in it with respect to temp calculations.  It was not calculating all the temps consistently using both bytes.

I never got the original script to run and also not your version 🙁. On my windows installation with cv2 4.8.0 the cap.read() method returns a 1D array if the automatic color conversion is switched off to get the raw data. I needed to reshape the array myself to index the pixels and bytes. However as far as I can see, the  temp conversion is exactly the same as what I did (https://gist.github.com/ks00x/af520dbba1ada0fbdc5e5d6582b22e55)

[G28]

I believe the original python script had some bugs in it with respect to temp calculations.  It was not calculating all the temps consistently using both bytes.

I never got the original script to run and also not your version 🙁. On my windows installation with cv2 4.8.0 the cap.read() method returns a 1D array if the automatic color conversion is switched off to get the raw data. I needed to reshape the array myself to index the pixels and bytes. However as far as I can see, the  temp conversion is exactly the same as what I did (https://gist.github.com/ks00x/af520dbba1ada0fbdc5e5d6582b22e55)

I am running 4.51 of OpenCV on Linux.  Wonder if it is the Windows version or the 4.8.0 version of OpenCV that is causing the different return format.  I guess I will find out sooner or later.

[ksxx]

I finally got the code for the reading of the raw temperature data from the P2Pro jpeg files (native app) working properly. Check out https://github.com/ks00x/p2proviewer
I also made a small web app  to view files and export the data as a csv file. On the github page there is a link to an online version of the app.

[ksxx]

Pizza time! Here is an example of the odd low temperature readings with my P2Pro. The upper half of the image is the normal picture from the app and a line profile cutting the pizza in the center. The values in the graph have no physical meaning. The lower part shows the temperature data extracted from the raw data in the file. The line profile values are in deg C. I did measure with an infrared thermometer as a reference and the plastic wrap at the right side of the pizza was ~ -4C and the unwrapped part was ~ -12C. The temperature in the exposed pizza area is totally clipped to -30C. That is also what the native app shows in this area.

[cynfab]

Well, trying not to be in the realm of the man with 2 watches, Here is what I tried.
Got out my 4 chan thermocouple meter and connected up 4  probes, then taped them to a block of aluminum as a stable thermal mass. I used black electrical tape as it has good emissivity. I then stuck the block & probes into the freezer and let it soak for an hour or so. After a while the 2 identical probes were within .1F of each other. I then put the block under the P2 Pro, wiped the condensation off the tape and took the following pictures.
After 15-20 min the block had warmed up to ~40F, the 2 probes were still within a degree or 2 of the P2 Pro.
This is using G28's software.

[ksxx]

After 15-20 min the block had warmed up to ~40F, the 2 probes were still within a degree or 2 of the P2 Pro.
This is using G28's software.

Thank you! This looks convincing and demonstrates that the P2Pro can do the job also at lower temperatures. I would be happy if the temperatures would be somewhat real but I have to assume that my cam is not working properly. Did you also try the readings with the original app as well?

[cynfab]

No, I did not. I got caught up in the middle of my wife wanting to clean out the freezer. So further tests will have to wait a bit.

[G28]

Well, trying not to be in the realm of the man with 2 watches, Here is what I tried.
Got out my 4 chan thermocouple meter and connected up 4  probes, then taped them to a block of aluminum as a stable thermal mass. I used black electrical tape as it has good emissivity. I then stuck the block & probes into the freezer and let it soak for an hour or so. After a while the 2 identical probes were within .1F of each other. I then put the block under the P2 Pro, wiped the condensation off the tape and took the following pictures.
After 15-20 min the block had warmed up to ~40F, the 2 probes were still within a degree or 2 of the P2 Pro.
This is using G28's software.

Thanks for the test.

So the software + P2 Pro appears to be tracking with your thermal probes ?  If so, that is good news.

FWIW, you can add up to 13 user defined temp locations by clicking on the image in user temp mode in addition to the Min/Avg/Max temps to sample other areas of the project.

[cynfab]

Yes, the P2 Pro tracks my thermocouples well, the setup wasn't perfect but the probes were in as intimate contact with the aluminum block as I could manage, the electrical tape was as good a black body as I could find. I would have liked to get the block colder. It actually warmed up from about 6F to 13F in the 2-3 minutes it took to get from the freezer to my lab setup. I wiped the condensation off the tape without touching it with anything other than the wipe so as to not add any heat to the tape. In the picture you can see that the tape that is not in contact with the block is slightly warmer than the tape the measurement is taken from.
Right now the P2 Pro is measuring 66.4F and the thermocouples 64.6F and 64.4F.
The setup has been running continuously for over 2 hours.

[tankslapper]

I finally got the code for the reading of the raw temperature data from the P2Pro jpeg files (native app) working properly. Check out https://github.com/ks00x/p2proviewer
I also made a small web app  to view files and export the data as a csv file. On the github page there is a link to an online version of the app.

This is really useful. If I could make a suggestion - the ability to set the min/max temperature manually would be quite powerful, as that is something missing from the P2 app. Being able to adjust it afterwards makes would make it less of an annoyance.

[ksxx]

This is really useful. If I could make a suggestion - the ability to set the min/max temperature manually would be quite powerful, as that is something missing from the P2 app. Being able to adjust it afterwards makes would make it less of an annoyance.

Yes I agree - Done! Controls are in the sidebar. However one must be a little careful with the interpretation if the manual range is smaller than full range. The colormap 'blackbody' kind off indicates highlight clipping.

The web app can be found here: https://p2proviewer.streamlit.app/

[tankslapper]

Ah you did it already! That works really well.

It will be quite useful for images which include the clear sky which always pulls the scale way out and makes it hard to see smaller differences, say on the outside of a building. It seems that the native app does quite a bit of image processing to make it look a bit smoother, but the raw data is still quite usable.

[Richard Harris]

Hello, I'm looking for product support on the P2 Pro camera.  I purchased a P2 Pro camera a few months ago, I've been having fun with it but I can't successfully record video. When I hit record video, everything looks fine on my phone, but then when I go to view it later there's no video, only a bunch of solid lines. Any help you can provide would be great, I'm using it with a Pixel 6a phone.

[ksxx]

If you are on Windows (or maybe Linux - not tried yet) and know a little bit of how to work with Python files, you may check out my live P2Pro app for the PC. Live temperature maps and a chart history view for min/max/mean/center with several options. Outputs to a web browser.
https://github.com/ks00x/p2pro-live

[masterx81]

After reading a lot of reviews of this device (also here on the forum) i've tried to buy the camera... and i'm happy with it. I've read about a lot of problems with the app, but on my samsung a52s works flawlessy.
I was worried about the lack of fusion mode of this type of camera, but the resolution and sensitivity is so high that i not feel the need of it. The macro lens allow crazy detailed photos of really small things.
The only thing that i not like too much is the compression used for the photos. The realtime image is much more detailed. I would love to have the ability to choose the compression level, or eventually get uncompressed images.
I know that they made some crappy marketing, but the product seem quite good, and compared to the other ir cameras that i have, is waaay better. And it's incredible as it's so small.
I was unsure if get the uni-t 260/271 or this one, that must be almost the same thing... i wanted a portable device with the macro lens, and i not liked the "gun" format. I've seen the tooltop t5 and t7 cameras (that must have the same sensor), but for have the macro, i've had to buy 2 cameras (t5 macro and t7 normal fixed focus), they not have the lens option.

[Fivefold]

This won't be of help to you since you return(ed) it, but maybe for someone else.

I've had no issues with the Topdon app on my phone, up to the latest version (2.32.002.231102). Both making pictures as well as video works as expected. I have a P2 (without the Pro) but I don't think that's a relevant difference.

My phone is a Oneplus 3T running LineageOS 18.1.

[andyB2022]

The most annoying fact about the P2 Pro Play Store App is that I can't rotate the app interface, all saved photos are up side down which is really annoying. Any fix you guys found for this?

Also the iOS app, has the temperatures displayed with white text rather than red (difficult to see).

[ksxx]

As the author of the earlier post below I can report that the problem was my particular camera! I got a replacement part from the shop and the problem is now gone. Thanks to the folks from the ELESHOP in the Netherlands for their awesome customer support!

Pizza time! Here is an example of the odd low temperature readings with my P2Pro. The upper half of the image is the normal picture from the app and a line profile cutting the pizza in the center. The values in the graph have no physical meaning. The lower part shows the temperature data extracted from the raw data in the file. The line profile values are in deg C. I did measure with an infrared thermometer as a reference and the plastic wrap at the right side of the pizza was ~ -4C and the unwrapped part was ~ -12C. The temperature in the exposed pizza area is totally clipped to -30C. That is also what the native app shows in this area.

[gumush]

@ksxx

Great work. It' will be great on all operating systems. But i have some problems on macos.

When i changed the file p2pro.py file

def __init__(self,cam_id) -> None:
    'module to read out the Infiray P2Pro camera'
    if sys.platform == 'win32': cam_id = int(cam_id)
    cam_id = int(cam_id)
    self.cap = cv2.VideoCapture(cam_id)         
    self.cap.set(cv2.CAP_PROP_CONVERT_RGB, 0) # do not create rgb data!
It look like find the camera.

ValueError: cannot reshape array of size 5760 into shape (2,192,256,2)

It looks like find the resolution of the camera but it returned error.

Python 3.12

[LiftedTrace]

Ive been wanting to get a thermal camera for some time now and after seeing posts on the interwebs pointing to github projects and eevblog forums about the TC001 working on linux, I thought to myself...."I have linux.......I want a TC001......Win Win", so I just got one.

I fear maybe Topdon got wind of these little projects because my brand new one doesnt seem to work with any of the options provided here. Even trying to access it with ffmpeg results in errors. Trying the latest python raw dump example results in an error message saying this is not a capture device.

Anyone know if Topdon pulled the plug on this open source project and implemented something in the camera firmware to block access to the device?

Edit:
Seems I was in error. My laptop lists /dev/video0 (my webcam) when nothing is connected when issuing 'v4l2-ctl --list-devices'.
Connecting the TC001 then shows /dev/video1 and /dev/media0. I assumed since /dev/video0 was already present, that my TC001 would be /dev/video1. I was wrong.
Using /dev/video0 along with @aurel commands from https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/infiray-and-their-p2-pro-discussion/msg4665403/#msg4665403 I was able to get mine working.

Now that I know it works, I can have some fun.

Thanks to everyone in this forums.

[Hundleton1]

It seems there is interest in using the P2 Pro as a USB camera on PC and interpreting the content of the video stream, so I will share the experiments I made after receiving mine.

Basically I played with ffmpeg to extract raw data from the video stream.

The main finding is that the USB UVC device is exporting 2 video streams
- a 256x192 yuyv422 stream that contains a grayscale 8 bits normalized video that is directly exploitable (the 8 bits luminance channel is the temperature data and both chrominance channels are fixed values to give a colorless/grayscale result)
- a 256x384 yuyv422 stream that contains an exact copy of the previous stream in the upper half of the image and a greenish picture in the bottom half. This greenish picture is actually the raw non-normalized sensor values that are actually encoded in gray16le format (just 16 bits per pixel, in one grayscale channel, little-endian).

Examples playing with those video streams on a linux box:

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# First of, find the device corresponding to your IR camera
v4l2-ctl --list-devices


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# Check that the normalized stream works fine
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x192 -i /dev/video4


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# Look a the combined streams
ffplay -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4


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# Use ffmpeg to grab the combined stream, crop to keep only the bottom half
# then pipe the raw data to ffplay and reinterpret it as gray16le.
# The resulting picture will be almost uniform gray due to the low range of
# the raw values in the 16 bits dynamic range.
# The raw values in a 0°C to 100°C environment ranges around 19000 to 24000
# (in a 0 to 65535 dynamic range).
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i -


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# To make the resulting raw stream more useful, you can add a normalization filter
# followed by a pseudocolor filter with typical IR camera colors
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno'


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# You can then play with pretty much infinitely long ffmpeg command lines
# For example, you can upscale the video stream, display the min and max raw
# values in the top left corner and add a time graph of the min and max values
# at the bottom
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'signalstats, split [main][secondary]; [main] normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno, scale=w=2*iw:h=2*ih, drawtext=x=3:y=3:borderw=1:bordercolor=white:fontfile=FreeSerif.ttf:text=MIN\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMIN}    MAX\\: %{metadata\\:lavfi.signalstats.YMAX} [thermal]; [secondary] drawgraph=m1=lavfi.signalstats.YMIN:fg1=0xFFFF9040:m2=lavfi.signalstats.YMAX:fg2=0xFF0000FF:bg=0x303030:min=18500:max=24500:slide=scroll:size=512x64 [graph]; [thermal][graph] vstack'



So the raw data from the sensor are very easily accessible. The only missing part is the conversion from raw values to actual temperatures. I don't know if some kind of calibration needs to be applied or if the raw values can be converted directly to temperatures with a simple fixed (linear ?) equation.
In my quick tests I derived the following equation to convert raw to °C but this is only a rough guesstimate: f(x) = (x - 19295) / 51.2857

Hi sorry to drag up an old post however trying the P2Pro software on an RPI4 and while I can get the bw thermal, the bw and green to come up I cant get the inferno color pallet option to work with your command, it just errors out for me.

This just does not work and I get Option P not found, error initiating filter pseudocolour

# To make the resulting raw stream more useful, you can add a normalization filter
# followed by a pseudocolor filter with typical IR camera colors
ffmpeg -input_format yuyv422 -video_size 256x384 -i /dev/video4 -vf 'crop=h=(ih/2):y=(ih/2)' -pix_fmt yuyv422 -f rawvideo - | ffplay -pixel_format gray16le -video_size 256x192 -f rawvideo -i - -vf 'normalize=smoothing=10, format=pix_fmts=rgb48, pseudocolor=p=inferno'

Any help would be amasing.

[smile]

P2Pro app on Android v1.1.3.240316 as all others since release have this bug where if you place marker to show temperature then open the same image with P2Pro app edit mode, the temperature for new placed marker will be 2x lower

Original 40C
Opened for editing 24C




Furthermore how come clicking edit in the P2Pro app deletes all markers, and shows image without any. is this bad joke. Infiray does not fix there reported multiple times problems, or is it just me?

[ksxx]

P2Pro app on Android v1.1.3.240316 as all others since release have this bug where if you place marker to show temperature then open the same image with P2Pro app edit mode, the temperature for new placed marker will be 2x lower

yes that is true, but I think the real errors are not as easy as a factor of 2. It is a complete mess. I made a small web app to analyze the images of the P2pro without such errors by reading the raw temperature data from the jpeg files. You may try it out here:
https://p2proviewer.streamlit.app/
https://github.com/ks00x/p2proviewer

[smile]

Wow this is well known problem, if you made an app to fix this somewhat. Yes the temperature error is non linear, usually around x2. If you contacted Xinfiray what did they reply to you? Why they do not fix this?

Clicking edit in the P2Pro app deletes all markers, and shows image without any. is this bad joke. Infiray does not fix there reported multiple times problems. I used CAT S62 Pro the FLIR app is way way better, but framerate is a joke, unusable for electronics repair, not to mention non existing close-up.

[Jane]

Anyone here uses this camera for electronics reparing?
Experience?