Infiray Flip PH35-Best '640' bang-for-the-buck since Therm-App Pro discontined?

[Dark Volter]

https://www.infiray.com/products/flip-ph35-thermal-imager.html
 
I spotted this, and am not sure how i missed it since it's been out for a bit- but I see it's at about $2800 (actually , $2200 at aliexpress, crazily enough) - $2800 generally- and i didn't think i'd see a non-thermal scope thermal imager at this spec level under 3K for ever- after watching the Therm App Pro go from 4k to 3k, then back to 4k (when i snagged it)- before the Therm-App lineup was discontinued


But 50 hz and 640X512 smells like a thermal scope core was used in this- but at that price point, in this form factor, it's picking up a area only the old Therm-App Pro had at that level
And even though I have a Therm-App Pro, this is tempting as hell

Does anyone on this Forum have one? How is the software? Does it let you control the camera well? How is infiray's software in general?

the Biggest thing, i've learned, is software can make or break a thermal camera- can you control the span, and range of the camera, or if not can you connect it to a computer and control  it? My therm-App Hz and Therm App Pro i use thermappplus 95% of the time because the OEM software doesn't let you control the span unfortunately
and therm-viewer has some control but it's finnicky and not as much...

And my FLIR pathfindir II is awesome 95% of the time- except the 5% when it rains heavily and drops get on the lens and the software adjusts the span the wrong way and the image gets dark, and i can't control it at all and it's hard to use- while my therm-apps, if water drops are on the lens incidentally, i use Therm-app plus to adjust the span- and see right through rain- and that makes all the difference with the amounts of money we throw at these.

Thoughts? Or did this escape everyone's attention?

Interesting , it's a stick with a GIANT FLIP screen

[Vipitis]

that's a curious product. The sensor being marketed as limited to 8100 units is really strange. Also Datasheet says it's a 20μm pixel pitch, which I have only seen in lens catalogs before.
If it could record lossless video it would be a really great product for my needs.

[Bill W]

A 20µ pitch and 35mm f/l lens gives the correct FoV for 640 horizontal so is consistent

That also means it must be displaying using only 640x360 to fit on the screen and give 21x11° FoV

[ArsenioDev]

The sensor being marketed as limited to 8100 units is really strange.

I'd bet this is "tail end" components of a manufacturing run that were surplus being rehomed into a unit to make extra profits on overstock, hence the limit and older pixel pitch (20um is fairly old at this point)

[Bill W]

I'd bet this is "tail end" components of a manufacturing run that were surplus being rehomed into a unit to make extra profits on overstock, hence the limit and older pixel pitch (20um is fairly old at this point)

20µm might be old (and also odd) but bigger pixels helps with S/N and lens design is less critical.  Even just the 35mm f/1 might be worth a fair chunk of the price.

[homestea]

I bought one of these on eBay for $1700 a few days ago.   I’ll report back when I get it with some videos and photos.  Looks like a pretty cool camera. 

[Dark Volter]

Looking forward to this-

Curious how it fares in different situations as it seems to only have a 35 mm lens, which...if that's like my Therm App/Therm app Pro 35 mm lens, is more for zoom/ranged work only and not really useful in closer-range situations(but i have multiple lenses for that, for the Flip, wondering if it has varying zoom or whatnot)

[homestea]

Here are a few initial test videos I just uploaded to YouTube.   

https://youtu.be/vurldF8MA8c

https://youtu.be/7iWjiygj0Oc

Initial Impressions:  the unit has a nice solid feel.  Not too heavy but not too light either.  The screen is quite large and very bright.  I had no problems navigating all the menus after a few minutes of use.  It has zoom levels of 2x, 4x, and 8x.  It has manual focus and can focus down to about 3-4ft minimum to infinity.  It has 64GB of internal storage that will store a TON of photos and videos.  The refresh rate is quite snappy at 50HZ with almost no discernible lag.  The picture quality looks better in my opinion than that generated by a Flir T640BX I have.  It also comes with a quite nice  latchable foam carrying case with a handle.  I’ll post some close up photos of the device soon. 

Update: the attached photos look they they may have a bit of compression applied to them as those pictures look slightly better on the device than these uploaded here.   Also forgot to mention that this unit supposedly has up to a 9 hour battery life. Also has built in Wi-Fi so you can directly record to a phone and download photos or remotely view what the camera is capturing.

[homestea]

Here are a few photos of the unit:

[ArsenioDev]

WOW that is fantastic resolution and great images

[homestea]

I took the unit on a walk outside at about 9pm tonight. it was past sunset and dark. The temperature earlier in the day was about 95 degrees and it was about 80 degrees or so when these were taken. During the video I capture people, cars, rabbits, and even an airplane while experimenting with different settings including color pallet, sensitivity, zoom, etc. Sorry for the bad shakiness in some parts of the video. This video should give you a good feel for how the image quality looks.  The camera automatically splits the video footage into 5 minute long chunks.  Here are the 3 parts of the video

Part 1:  https://youtu.be/Jtet9KfipXg
Part 2:  https://youtu.be/_erSBxM3jVI
Part 3:  https://youtu.be/Vh1z1RVgjrg

So far overall I’m very pleased with the performance of this device given its relatively low cost.  The quality of the picture is equal or better than all FLIR brand devices I have ever owned including M18, M24, T640, P640, etc. and better than most other brand devices I have used as well.  The picture quality seems on close or on par with most 640 DRS core instruments I’ve used in the past too. 

[Dark Volter]

This is pretty insightful- and that's cool! It does look spectacular


Interesting that it zooms out well- i didn't expect it to perform so well zoomed out, for the widest view of a scene

-that's a little easier than me changing lenses on my Therm App Pro

-That 5 minute video limit though- hurts extremely badly, OOF- no way to get around that??

Also, can you control the span and push it up or down, for when in areas with hot things or fire, and cold stuff? Just curious

[Dark Volter]

wanted to inquire if anyone else has picked up one of these very interesting units- I see Infiray's site no longer has them (tho the UK site still lists them)- and that aside from 3rd party sellers, these are running out of stock very fast. Was hoping to get a little more info on the, but might go ahead and get one before it's gone, to compare to my Therm App Pro


I REALLY don't see any other thermal cameras that have this nice a form factor  for the price (which has gone down even further- must be because places are getting rid of them)

-Shame it takes like every 5+ years for a  thermal camera to come out that's not 5 figures of a cost, or a thermal scope form factor

[zrq]

Apparently the PH35 is being replaced by PH35+, using 17 um sensor instead of 20 um of the original.

[Dark Volter]

Considering the main Infiray sites no longer list it, ...is the Plus version something actively being made? Or did they indeed stop making all variants? Hmm

[encryptededdy]

Can you get the full 640x480 (or 512) resolution out of this?

All the videos I see online are cropped to 16:9 (so 640x360). Also, can you view the full 640x512 image on the screen? Or is it cropped to the 16:9 display aspect ratio?

[Dark Volter]

I tried to pick one up from B and H photo Video a month ago- they had listed the Plus variant still in stock- I just got told the order is cancelled , because the manufacturer may be out of stock?

So, Did the last 640X 480 high-hertz Thermal Camera that's not a scope- just end it's run? This is sad if so- as it took a long while for Infiray to get going after Opgal did in 2014- alas, it might be a decade or more before price competitive non-thermal scope form factor thermals with midgrade specs become available. FLIR systems sure is not competitive capability wise at the Infiray Price points.

[gamerpaddy]

maybe these things popping up on ebay use the same sensor https://www.ebay.com/itm/176460951341
im not too sure about ordering something this expensive from china, but if they had a EU stock for 10..20% more, i would have bought one allready.

[Dark Volter]

So, I just took the plunge on this and snagged one form Aliexpress, since they're now nearly gone completely, as mentioned before-

And have the device- I have the PH35+, which has a near-infrared Laser Rangefinder 


The immediate cons- it's all in chinese, in the device menus and settings. (though a lot of Icons as well which are obvious)

-I asked Infiray- and apparently while English prototype manuals are floating around (I got one of these from B and H photo video before they canceled my order due to not having any cameras)

- All Flips are in Chinese only.
Good thing it's easy enough to 100% figure out all the controls anyway................... Did not expect this

Wish they would make a Firmware update changing it to English

Aside from that- so far so good. Frame Rate is very fast

Am comparing it to my Therm App Pro and HZ- (mainly the Pro)- and while it's not as customizable (since i have all 3 of the apps made for the Therm app serie,s which offer a lot of options)-

The Infiray Flip seems to have some switches that make it easier to see in trickier conditions- looking forward to using those at some point  in adverse conditions to see how it affects the image

Aside from that,i 'ts a oversized, thermal camcorder lol- but it does fell well built
Theses are my initial impressions

Solid, but be warned, none were made with English in the menus (though the outside markings on the device are all English)



....

I also look forward to the far future when another ultra cheap device of this level of specs- that isn't a scope, but some other form factor, comes out

[Dark Volter]

Something else I wanted to mention- turns out the Infiray FLIP does not record Audio- when taking video

....Little surprised at that , and wanted to let others know who might get it.

-So in that regard my Therm App Pro is better- but of course the Therm App pro has a phone with a mic on it...

It really seems like it's hard to get a (non-thermal scope form factor)Mid grade thermal for a competitive price with good capability and no missing features/gotchas, today- unlike the past decade sadly....

I do wish those who'd gotten one of these would have piped up, so we'd know about the chinese language / no audio bits though.

It's solid and clearly more geared towards outdoor stuff, so i'm really surprised people who use thermal scopes/do outdoor things haven't acquired one and maaybe chimed in here(since this is the only place on the web that talks about it)