Elon Musk (No Politics)

[jpanhalt]

@KE5FX  @Electrodynamic

All that's needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.  If you really have facts, rather than delusions, why don't you report what you know to the authorities?.

In any civilized country with enforced laws like Canada what Musk/Tesla have done is illegal ...

Tesla and other Musk entities have a presence in your country and are subject to its laws.  Do something.  Report your facts to your authorities.  Help save Canada from his evil. 

[KE5FX]

Report Musk to Trump?  What good would that do?  He hasn't broken any major laws that I'm aware of, at least not in the US.  You're allowed to run a cult.

[jpanhalt]

Report Musk to Trump?  What good would that do?  He hasn't broken any major laws that I'm aware of, at least not in the US.  You're allowed to run a cult.

Cowards die a thousand times.

[NE666]

Cowards die a thousand times.

And all men are lions behind their keyboards.

[Analog Kid]

My criticism of Musk is nothing like your diatribe. Think of it this way, what if Ford Motor Company...
1)Claimed to have working technology they don't and tested the new technology on customers putting their lives at risk killing some.
2)Manipulated the stock price based on these lies or deceptions claiming a fake trillion dollar evaluation.
3)The conflicted board members then gave themselves a huge raise and the CEO 56 billion and 1 trillion dollar pay packages at the share holders expense. Said value taken from shareholders based on lies and stock manipulation.

In any civilized country with enforced laws like Canada what Musk/Tesla have done is illegal and all involved would be in prison. Tesla would have been shut down the moment these vehicles started killing the drivers and innocent pedestrians.

This blatant corruption has a two fold effect, one it gives Musk/Tesla a grossly unfair advantage creating manufactured monopolies at the taxpayers expense. Two it destroys any real competition who actually have to follow the laws and regulations.

So this has nothing to do with jealousy or hate which may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard. My objections are with lies, stock manipulation, grifting and corruption. Is that so hard to understand?.

Pretty much what you wrote.
Plus I would add his recent performance as "DOGE" headchopper, rampaging through the entire federal government's expenditures on a wild-goose chase for "graft, corruption and waste" which only made things worse for folks who receive certain crucial services from the gov't. (like, say, Social Security). All while his companies feed at the federal trough. Oh, and this little escapade gave him and his henchmen the chance to peek into federal financial databases, which, one could easily imagine, allowed him to glean information that would give him and his companies unfair advantages in all sorts of ways.

All of which, if we sum it up, could be grounds for prosecution.
In some imaginary world, perhaps, but not this one, unfortunately.
I think the chances of Musk (or his companies) ever facing civil or criminal charges are vanishingly small. Even if the opposition party somehow wrests control in the next administration or two.
Ain't gonna happen.

[UnijunctionTransistor]

Elon Musk; the Brown Noser in Chief;

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1414251973406253&id=100044643900067

It is like a bad soap opera. The off again, on again relationship.

[vk6zgo]

It's not possible to actually know this, but I am super curious what percentage of the musk hate is rational vs irrational hate.

On Bluesky it's gotta be 100% irrational 

Like the adoration on X.

[tom66]

I'm curious how many people on here who dislike Musk can admit that they used to respect/like Musk but have since changed their opinion on the man.

In the early days I was a proper Tesla fanboy, I always wanted a Model S, followed the early release of the 3/Y, got a few test drives, watched most SpaceX launches, watched the keynote speeches, laughed at the socially awkward Elon (who I can 100% believe has some kind of autism) but ultimately saw a guy who seemed to be trying to pull off what others thought as impossible.

But... I think it was him buying Twitter, and before that all the COVID-conspiracy shit he was going into, and then his political stances, that just made me realise: this guy is not making the planet a better place any more.  That's purely my opinion - beyond any factual assessment there.

On the one hand I'd like to believe that he was once a "good guy" and something corrupted him. Ketamine abuse has been suggested, as has his kid (now Vivian Wilson) coming out as trans, as reasons for why he seemed to shift.

On the other hand it's been said he was always like that, he just hid it well and/or it wasn't so prominent.  It takes a certain "killer instinct" to rise to the levels Musk is at, and with that can come certain... views and psychological issues. 

So I am very much in this category of former Musk fans.  I used to respect the guy and I still think Tesla and SpaceX are doing important things and slowly changing the world (although Tesla is much less important today than it was a decade ago).  If it popped up in the news tomorrow that he had a sudden brain aneurysm or whatever... I'd not mourn the guy.  I wouldn't actively cheer for his death - that's immoral and wrong.  But I don't think he's a positive influence on the world or even his companies any more.

[jpanhalt]

Well, the usual suspects sitting at their keyboards are here.  Waiting for a couple of more.  Basically, you are jealous of Musk's success and your own failures.  So, you project.  He is not a criminal -- certainly no more so than Henry Ford was.*  If your lived in Australia, you might be called cunts. 

Me?  I am very proud of my country.  I respect Musk.  He seems to make a better choice in women than your Democrat scion, Bezos.  The only thing I have reservations about is his goal to populate the World little Musk's, but then, he can afford that luxury. 

*Electrodynamic cites the Ford Motor Company in contrast to Tesla.  He needs to read Henry Ford's history.

[KE5FX]

I'm curious how many people on here who dislike Musk can admit that they used to respect/like Musk but have since changed their opinion on the man ... I don't think he's a positive influence on the world or even his companies any more.

That's my take as well.  I'm not into EVs, but in the early days, I remember wishing Tesla sold something I needed or wanted... just so that I could help support his efforts to keep SpaceX funded and moving forward. 

In my case, what broke the spell was the episode with the cave diver in Thailand who had the temerity to tell him, "Thanks, but no thanks, we don't need your submarine."  I still can't believe he got away with defaming that poor fellow, but he did, and that was just the beginning of a recurring pattern of getting away with things that no one else could have, should have, or would have.  Musk and Trump are two peas in a pod, endowed with unerring instincts that tell them just how badly they can behave short of triggering actual consequences. 

Speaking of temerity, there's a great passage in Ian Fleming's original Moonraker novel from 1953:

Bond's eyes were turned inwards, remembering. "He seems to have disappeared for about three years after
the war," he said. "Then the City started to hear about him from all over the world. The Metal Market heard
about him first. Seems he'd cornered a very valuable ore called Columbite. Everybody was wanting the stuff.
It's got an extraordinarily high melting point. Jet engines can't be made without it. There's very little of it in
the world, only a few thousand tons are produced every year, mostly as a by-product of the Nigerian tin
mines. Drax must have looked at the Jet Age and somehow put his finger on its main scarcity. He must have
got hold of about £10,000 from somewhere because the Express says that in 1946 he'd bought three tons of
Columbite, which cost him around £3000 a ton. He got a £5000 premium on this lot from an American
aircraft firm who wanted it in a hurry. Then he started buying futures in the stuff, six months, nine months, a
year forward. In three years he'd made a corner. Anyone who wanted Columbite went to Drax Metals for it.
All this time he'd been playing about with futures in other small commodities--Shellac, Sisal, Black Pepper--
anything where you could build up a big position on margin. Of course he gambled on a rising commodity
market but he had the guts to keep his foot right down on the pedal even when the pace got hot as hell. And
whenever he took a profit he ploughed the money back again. For instance, he was one of the first men to buy
up used ore-dumps in South Africa. Now they're being re-mined for their uranium content. Another fortune
there."

M's quiet eyes were fixed on Bond. He puffed at his pipe, listening.

"Of course," continued Bond, lost in his story, "all this made the City wonder what the hell was going on. The
commodity brokers kept on coming across the name of Drax. Whatever they wanted Drax had got it and was
holding out for a much higher price than they were prepared to pay. He operated from Tangier--free port, no
taxes, no currency restrictions. By 1950 he was a multi-millionaire. Then he came back to England and
started spending it. He simply threw it about. Best houses, best cars, best women. Boxes at the Opera, at
Goodwood. Prize-winning Jersey herds. Prize-winning carnations. Prize-winning two-year-olds. Two yachts;
money for the Walker Cup team; £100,000 for the Flood Disaster Fund; Coronation Ball for Nurses at the
Albert Hall--there wasn't a week when he wasn't hitting the headlines with some splash or other. And all the
time he went on getting richer and the people simply loved it. It was the Arabian Nights. It lit up their lives. If
a wounded soldier from Liverpool could get there in five years, why shouldn't they or their sons? It sounded
almost as easy as winning a gigantic football pool.

"And then came his astonishing letter to the Queen: 'Your Majesty, may I have the temerity...' and the typical
genius of the single banner-line across the Express next day: TEMERITY DRAX, and the story of how he
had given to Britain his entire holding in Columbite to build a super atomic rocket with a range that would
cover nearly every capital in Europe--the immediate answer to anyone who tried to atom-bomb London.
£10,000,000 he was going to put up out of his own pocket, and he had the design of the thing and was
prepared to find the staff to build it.  The Queen was graciously pleased to accept the gift on behalf of
the people of Britain, and conferred a knighthood on the donor."

Bond paused, almost carried away by the story of this extraordinary man.

"Yes," said M. "Peace in Our Time--This Time. I remember the headline. A year ago. And now the rocket's
nearly ready. 'The Moonraker'. And from all I hear it really should do what he says. It's very odd." He
relapsed into silence, gazing out of the window.

He turned back and faced Bond across the desk.

"That's about it," he said slowly. "I don't know much more than you do. A wonderful story. Extraordinary
man." He paused, reflecting. "There's only one thing..." M. tapped the stem of his pipe against his teeth.

"What's that, sir?" asked Bond.

M. seemed to make up his mind. He looked mildly across at Bond.

"Sir Hugo Drax cheats at cards."

[tom66]

In my case, what broke the spell was the episode with the cave diver in Thailand who had the temerity to tell him, "Thanks, but no thanks, we don't need your submarine."  I still can't believe he got away with defaming that poor fellow, but he did, and that was just the beginning of a recurring pattern of getting away with things that no one else could have, should have, or would have.  Musk and Trump are two peas in a pod, endowed with unerring instincts that tell them just how badly they can behave short of triggering actual consequences. 

I totally forgot about that!  You're right, that was insane.  You had a guy who had literally dived through caves for pretty much all of his life telling Elon that his stupid contraption wouldn't work, because the caves are so tight at some points that they had to take their oxygen tanks off and swim with them in front of them, and Elon thinks its this way because in his mind this guy diddles kids.  Like, what the fuck, his ego was insane.  And I think it's sad that the jury was fooled by that, but defamation cases are always hard ones.

It's also very sad that the rescuers lost one of their own in the rescue (possibly a second as well due to a blood infection that was fatal a year later), though the outcome of saving the kids was a great result.

I suppose you could brush that moment off as if Elon's ego was just a bit too strong, but being egotistical isn't necessarily uncommon in people like Musk and maybe isn't a horrible trait.  But it was a clue to what was coming next.

[Monkeh]

I am very proud of my country.

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

He seems to make a better choice in women

Or that.

Democrat

Or that.

Bezos.

Or that?

The crazies come out on both sides, and somewhere in the middle are those with their brains functional, just trying to survive the onslaught..

[jonovid]

If things went differently for the 2018 cave rescuers -would have been a real life International rescue from the 1960s TV series Thunderbirds.
with Musk's rocketry & tunnel drilling equipment on tank tracks.

[wraper]

In my case, what broke the spell was the episode with the cave diver in Thailand who had the temerity to tell him, "Thanks, but no thanks, we don't need your submarine."  I still can't believe he got away with defaming that poor fellow, but he did, and that was just the beginning of a recurring pattern of getting away with things that no one else could have, should have, or would have.  Musk and Trump are two peas in a pod, endowed with unerring instincts that tell them just how badly they can behave short of triggering actual consequences. 

I totally forgot about that!  You're right, that was insane.  You had a guy who had literally dived through caves for pretty much all of his life telling Elon that his stupid contraption wouldn't work, because the caves are so tight at some points that they had to take their oxygen tanks off and swim with them in front of them, and Elon thinks its this way because in his mind this guy diddles kids.  Like, what the fuck, his ego was insane.  And I think it's sad that the jury was fooled by that, but defamation cases are always hard ones.

The issue is that submarine's design was agreed upon with those who actually led the rescue operation, and Elon provided a lot of other stuff that was actually used in operation, power packs and pumps, for example. Vernon Unsworth actually was not involved in the rescue operation beside initial finding of the people entrapped in the cave.

"Thanks, but no thanks, we don't need your submarine."

It's not what Unsworth said. The actual phrase was: “He can stick his submarine where it hurts”. Which was totally uncalled for. Elon's reaction to that was bad but Unsworth should have applied his comment to himself rather than say it to CNN for to be broadcasted in the news globally.

[Analog Kid]

OK, I didn't even know all those juicy details about the Thai kids' rescue and the spat between Vernon Unsworth and Musk until now. Quite profound knowledge that I now wish I could un-learn.

So here's my take on that dust-up and on Musk's part in it:

• Unsworth was probably a dick for saying Musk could stick his submarine where it would hurt, although that was just an overreaction on his part to an annoyance (the submarine wouldn't have been helpful, therefore Unsworth was justified in his annoyance)
• Responding to that dickishness, Musk went full-on asshole with his uncalled-for retort, which was pure gratuitous schoolyard insult
• Based on that, the jury might have found in Unsworth's favor (but see below).

All in all, it's good that there was no finding against Musk. Not that he wasn't an incredible asshole here--he was--but we're talking about words here, not actual harms. This idea that you can sue someone (for real money!) because you're butthurt on account of something someone said about you is so ridiculously UK-ish. Sticks and stones and all that.

[KE5FX]

It's not what Vernon Unsworth said. The actual phrase was: “He can stick his submarine where it hurts”. Which was totally uncalled for. Elon's reaction to that was bad but Vernon Unsworth should have applied his comment to himself rather than say it to CNN for to be broadcasted in the news globally.

Well, that's not exactly how it transpired, is it?  Unsworth's insult came after Musk had attempted to elbow his way into a situation where he had no business interfering, no invitation to do so, and no relevant qualifications.

I didn't check the citations but this is basically how I remember it unfolding (link goes to Gemini 3).

All in all, it's good that there was no finding against Musk. Not that he wasn't an incredible asshole here--he was--but we're talking about words here, not actual harms. This idea that you can sue someone (for real money!) because you're butthurt on account of something someone said about you is so ridiculously UK-ish. Sticks and stones and all that.

I largely agree with you, but let's not kid ourselves about what would have happened to either one of us in Musk's shoes.  He has the devil's luck, the devil's lawyers, or more likely both.

[wraper]

It's not what Vernon Unsworth said. The actual phrase was: “He can stick his submarine where it hurts”. Which was totally uncalled for. Elon's reaction to that was bad but Vernon Unsworth should have applied his comment to himself rather than say it to CNN for to be broadcasted in the news globally.

Well, that's not exactly how it transpired, is it?  Unsworth's insult came after Musk had attempted to elbow his way into a situation where he had no business interfering, no invitation to do so, and no relevant qualifications.

Elon had the invitation from the actual rescue team. Unsworth is not a diver and was not even part of the rescue team, if we talk about qualifications to make comments like that.

[KE5FX]

Elon had the invitation from the actual rescue team. Unsworth was not even part of the team, if we talk about qualifications to make comments like that.

True, they took him up on his offer to send engineers and equipment.  But not to argue about conjuring up a submarine.

Point being, it wasn't unreasonable to expect a little more maturity from someone in his position.

[wraper]

Point being, it wasn't unreasonable to expect a little more maturity from someone in his position.

I agree that Elon's response vas immature, and IMHO Unsworth was not better that Elon in this situation and is not a victim.

[Monkeh]

All in all, it's good that there was no finding against Musk. Not that he wasn't an incredible asshole here--he was--but we're talking about words here, not actual harms. This idea that you can sue someone (for real money!) because you're butthurt on account of something someone said about you is so ridiculously UK-ish. Sticks and stones and all that.

Someone with a very high profile making accusations like that is quite capable of causing harm when you're not anonymous.

[wraper]

All in all, it's good that there was no finding against Musk. Not that he wasn't an incredible asshole here--he was--but we're talking about words here, not actual harms. This idea that you can sue someone (for real money!) because you're butthurt on account of something someone said about you is so ridiculously UK-ish. Sticks and stones and all that.

Someone with a very high profile making accusations like that is quite capable of causing harm when you're not anonymous.

Unsworth's insult was broadcasted all over the world and did actually harm Elon. On other hand, I really doubt anyone with half a brain have seen Elon's insult as anything more than insulting the guy for residing in Thailand.

[Monkeh]

All in all, it's good that there was no finding against Musk. Not that he wasn't an incredible asshole here--he was--but we're talking about words here, not actual harms. This idea that you can sue someone (for real money!) because you're butthurt on account of something someone said about you is so ridiculously UK-ish. Sticks and stones and all that.

Someone with a very high profile making accusations like that is quite capable of causing harm when you're not anonymous.

Unsworth's insult was broadcasted all over the world and did actually harm Elon. On other hand, I really doubt anyone with half a brain have seen Elon's insult as anything more than insulting the guy for residing in Thailand.

What harmed Elon more, having one of his bad ideas called out for what it was, or his response? If he doesn't want the truth to hurt, he should keep quiet instead of seeking fame.

[KE5FX]

The prospect of losing at bridge Diablo IV was evidently his real breaking point. 

[tom66]

Technically, Elon's statement could cause harm: he called him a "pedo guy" on Twitter, which had infinitely widely public distribution than Unsworth's comments which were made to a reporter and then published by CNN.  Libel law considers the spread and originator of information, and libel is something you can sue for in the UK (libel being written statements).  And Musk called him a pedo guy because he lived in Thailand, he had no evidence to the contrary and even hired a private detective to follow Unsworth around afterwards to dig up dirt on him, nothing further public came of that.  He behaved like a big bully when his ideas were said to not be useful.  In a rescue environment where time is essential, you cannot expect everyone to be polite especially if there's a guy there who seems to be doing the whole thing just for ego/PR. 

It's not what Vernon Unsworth said. The actual phrase was: “He can stick his submarine where it hurts”. Which was totally uncalled for. Elon's reaction to that was bad but Vernon Unsworth should have applied his comment to himself rather than say it to CNN for to be broadcasted in the news globally.

Well, that's not exactly how it transpired, is it?  Unsworth's insult came after Musk had attempted to elbow his way into a situation where he had no business interfering, no invitation to do so, and no relevant qualifications.

Elon had the invitation from the actual rescue team. Unsworth is not a diver and was not even part of the rescue team, if we talk about qualifications to make comments like that.

Unsworth was a diver.  He knew the caves well and was a regular there and could act as a subject matter expert even if he was not directly involved in rescue efforts.  He could probably easily see that the sub which was inflexible would not be able to fit through the tightest spaces in the cave system.

[tszaboo]

Point being, it wasn't unreasonable to expect a little more maturity from someone in his position.

I agree that Elon's response vas immature, and IMHO Unsworth was not better that Elon in this situation and is not a victim.

Elon posts a lot of bullshit about topics that he doesn't understand.
Like when he was talking about stealth airplanes, and how you can track them. Like yes, you can look up the sky and it's right there. Doesn't mean that the S300 radar from the 1980s will not have a hard time getting a target lock on it from 40 miles, letting that stealth plane launch a AGM-88 defeating the radar. Or how it outranges ever Gen 4 fighter. Completely misunderstanding what's the point of the stealth coating, not understanding what's the environment it's operating in.
He does these mistakes all the time. His starting point is "what could be" not "what is".