Elon Musk (No Politics)

[McCarthy]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

Not playing troll games.

[Psi]

That being said, it makes little sense to discus him, let alone hate him. He is who he is, and there is not a single person on this forum that has archived more, or paid more taxes.

There could have been someone in history who has done more work in their life. That one is a bit harder to prove. Achievements are not always so grand and obvious, or in the public eye. But yes, he's definitely way up there, at least for recorded history.

[Psi]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

It really does depend how you define "achieved".

If you start a company, or you buy a company and turn it into a huge company that has a big positive effect on the world. Did you achieve that or did your employees?

There is a valid argument that if you didn't do it it wouldn't have happened so yes, you achieved it.
But there are other view points that have some validity.

It's absolutely true that some companies achieved greatness because of their awesome CEO and management team while others achieved greatness despite having a horrible CEO and management who keept trying to ruin everything and just got lucky due to their employees being so good at defusing stupidity.

[brucehoult]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

It really does depend how you define "achieved".

If you start a company, or you buy a company and turn it into a huge company that has a big positive effect on the world. Did you do achieve that or did your employees?

"You didn't build that" -- Barack Hussein Obama II

And he was utterly wrong.

If it wouldn't have happened without you, then you built it.

You don't have to hammer every nail and make every weld personally.

[Psi]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

It really does depend how you define "achieved".

If you start a company, or you buy a company and turn it into a huge company that has a big positive effect on the world. Did you do achieve that or did your employees?

"You didn't build that" -- Barack Hussein Obama II

And he was utterly wrong.

If it wouldn't have happened without you, then you built it.

You don't have to hammer every nail and make every weld personally.

I agree, but not in a fictional example of a company achieving greatness despite having a horrible owner/CEO/management who kept trying to ruin everything and just got lucky due to their employees being so good at defusing stupidity.
In this case i don't think the horrible owner/CEO/management achieved anything except pain and suffering.   

I'm not talking about Elon here, just using an example to show that you don't always get to claim you achieved something simply because you started the company. or ran it or whatever.

[Cyclotron]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

It really does depend how you define "achieved".

If you start a company, or you buy a company and turn it into a huge company that has a big positive effect on the world. Did you do achieve that or did your employees?

"You didn't build that" -- Barack Hussein Obama II

And he was utterly wrong.

If it wouldn't have happened without you, then you built it.

You don't have to hammer every nail and make every weld personally.

I would agree with you. Soldiers are required to win wars; leaders determine how they will be used, and their decisions are what decides the fates.

[Analog Kid]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

Not playing troll games.

OK, I get it, my bad: it's a typo.
Couldn't you have just admitted as much? Sheesh.

[EEVblog]

Unless you're an employee, and then it's 100% loyalty and commitment or GTFO.

Yeah,  I do think he drives his employees a little too hard.
It gets results but that doesn't necessarily make it ok.
I guess the only real way to know for sure will be to ask someone who worked super hard for Musk 5 years after the fact about that time in their life and if they thought it was a positive or negative. 

Ping @FreeElectron
He was at Tesla for more than 5 years.

- I think some would say that working that hard and accomplishing things (like booster landing) gave them so much drive and satisfaction in their abilities that it allowed them to go on and create great things later than might not have been possible without that time.
- While others would probably say that it broke them and caused their health to decline and they regret it.

The real question is, what would the percentage of each be? Since it's all about the average and if it's overall a beneficial thing or not. There will also be some people who have a bad experiences and since it was their choice to work there you can't really hold edge cases up as evidence of wrong doing.

If you look at the SpaceX Starship launch videos you often see the staff cheering, and it looks like most of them are young, probably single, without kids or other commitments, just looking to work on something cool. They probably sleep under their desk half the time so they don't have to commute.
This was (still is?) common in the tech industry, was even at Altium when I worked there 14 years ago. You got free food (breakfast lunch and dinner), a concierge service to do chores for you, free gym membership nearby, massages, games room, all designed to keep you at work as long as possible. Elon's businesses are no different.

[brucehoult]

"Archived more"? Please explain.

Not playing troll games.

OK, I get it, my bad: it's a typo.
Couldn't you have just admitted as much? Sheesh.

It's too consistent to be a typo. Maybe an ESL issue. I know a lot of foreigners, such things don't even register with me any more ... I know what they meant.

[Analog Kid]

OK, I get it, my bad: it's a typo.
Couldn't you have just admitted as much? Sheesh.

It's too consistent to be a typo. Maybe an ESL issue. I know a lot of foreigners, such things don't even register with me any more ... I know what they meant.

Consistent? The guy* used it once here.
My problem, I guess, is I read "archived" and I think "archived".

* assuming

[Psi]

If you look at the SpaceX Starship launch videos you often see the staff cheering, and it looks like most of them are young, probably single, without kids or other commitments, just looking to work on something cool. They probably sleep under their desk half the time so they don't have to commute.
This was (still is?) common in the tech industry, was even at Altium when I worked there 14 years ago. You got free food (breakfast lunch and dinner), a concierge service to do chores for you, free gym membership nearby, massages, games room, all designed to keep you at work as long as possible. Elon's businesses are no different.

Yep, I agree 100%.
I just like to make posts that are a bit inclusive of the views some people have that are opposite to me, try to pull them in and hopefully convert them. 

[brucehoult]

Consistent? The guy* used it once here.

Twice.

"Musk being on the spectrum explains literally everything he says, knows and archives."

"there is not a single person on this forum that has archived more"

[Cyclotron]

Unless you're an employee, and then it's 100% loyalty and commitment or GTFO.

Yeah,  I do think he drives his employees a little too hard.
It gets results but that doesn't necessarily make it ok.
I guess the only real way to know for sure will be to ask someone who worked super hard for Musk 5 years after the fact about that time in their life and if they thought it was a positive or negative. 

Ping @FreeElectron
He was at Tesla for more than 5 years.

- I think some would say that working that hard and accomplishing things (like booster landing) gave them so much drive and satisfaction in their abilities that it allowed them to go on and create great things later than might not have been possible without that time.
- While others would probably say that it broke them and caused their health to decline and they regret it.

The real question is, what would the percentage of each be? Since it's all about the average and if it's overall a beneficial thing or not. There will also be some people who have a bad experiences and since it was their choice to work there you can't really hold edge cases up as evidence of wrong doing.

If you look at the SpaceX Starship launch videos you often see the staff cheering, and it looks like most of them are young, probably single, without kids or other commitments, just looking to work on something cool. They probably sleep under their desk half the time so they don't have to commute.
This was (still is?) common in the tech industry, was even at Altium when I worked there 14 years ago. You got free food (breakfast lunch and dinner), a concierge service to do chores for you, free gym membership nearby, massages, games room, all designed to keep you at work as long as possible. Elon's businesses are no different.

That work environment is still prevalent in highly technical work environments. I have only worked in an office briefly over the last 20 years, but all the companies I have worked for in high tech offer these "amenities" and more. The job I had before my current one was at a start-up that had beer and wine on tap, and my current company has been known to brew and label beer named after the company for folks in the office.

The HR folks work feverishly on "culture" to push companies to pursue excellence and a nonstop work ethic. Leaders play a significant role in getting employees on board. The old saying is, "Don't leave work before the boss."

[brucehoult]

This was (still is?) common in the tech industry, was even at Altium when I worked there 14 years ago. You got free food (breakfast lunch and dinner), a concierge service to do chores for you, free gym membership nearby, massages, games room, all designed to keep you at work as long as possible. Elon's businesses are no different.

I've never gotten free massages or someone to do chores, but I've had meals provided in the office (or company cafeteria), free snacks and drinks through the day, even beer/wine after 5 PM at all of:

- Doyle Paterson Brown (stockbrokers), Wellington NZ, founded (and I agreed to join) Waitangi weekend 1987.

- Fay Richwhite (DPB was acquired). Also got a ride on the Americas Cup yacht.

- Mozilla 2009. Sandwiches pizza etc in the office, could also use the Google facilities across the road. After they moved to Castro St you could order (free) from local restaurants.

- Samsung R&D Moscow, 2014-2018. Choice of several paid cafeterias and cafes in-building, had a payment card with IIRC 650 rubles/day (US$10 at the time) which was enough to cover two meals if you didn't go crazy on the "cooked to your order while you wait" steaks or something.

- SiFive San Mateo CA, 2018-2020. Catered lunches every day, plenty of leftovers in the evening.

- Kami (PDF markup/sharing site for education), Auckland NZ 2021-2023

[Psi]

We just got an generous amount per week allocated for online shopping orders to keep the fridge stocked with whatever we wanted. Drinks and chips and stuff.  hehe, actually the amount never got reduced when the company downsized so it was quite large for the size of the team.
Sadly by that point I was a bit old to be drinking tons of soft drinks and chips every day.

[brucehoult]

We just got an generous amount per week allocated for online shopping orders to keep the fridge stocked with whatever we wanted. Drinks and chips and stuff.

At Innaworks new hires brought with them "Fridge" software they'd developed for the grad student common room at the university. It kept a balance of what you'd spent on drinks, choc bars, chips etc (there was small computer next to the fridge). If you brought in something to stock the fridge with then you got I think a 20% bonus credit on the cost, so if you were like me one of the few who owned a vehicle it was pretty easy to get your own snacks for free.

[EEVblog]

The old saying is, "Don't leave work before the boss."

I remember leaving for home from Altium at 8pm on xmas eve so I could continue my work remotely from home.
I forgot my company credit card and needed to order parts urgently at midnight, I knew the founder Nick Martin would still be there, so I phoned him up and got him to go to my desk to get the credit card number. He was the only one left in the building.

[Cyclotron]

The old saying is, "Don't leave work before the boss."

I remember leaving for home from Altium at 8pm on xmas eve so I could continue my work remotely from home.
I forgot my company credit card and needed to order parts urgently at midnight, I knew the founder Nick Martin would still be there, so I phoned him up and got him to go to my desk to get the credit card number. He was the only one left in the building.

I suspect Musk doesn't have a "home"; he just has offices where he sleeps. The number of hours C-suite folks can put in is impressive.

People who want to join them often don't seem to realize the dedication and hours they put in.

[HuronKing]

Agreed, and I think he's acknowledged as much. 

"I'm actually making history tonight as the first person with Aspergers to host SNL. Or at least the first to admit it."

Kinda characteristically, Musk was again taking credit for other people's achievements. Dan Akroyd was the first person to host SNL with Aspergers and he admitted it back in the 2010s. I know that is adjacent to the overall point about Musk on the spectrum... but as an SNL fan it irritated me he claimed that.

https://childmind.org/blog/dan-aykroyd-says-being-on-the-spectrum-helped-him-make-ghostbusters/

[Psi]

I suspect Musk doesn't have a "home"; he just has offices where he sleeps. The number of hours C-suite folks can put in is impressive.

Yep, he has a tiny house at Starbase where he can sleep while working there. Or at least he did, not sure if that's still the case. I know there has been lot of real houses built near Starbase for employees. So its possible he uses one of those now.

https://www.austincapitalmortgage.com/elon-musk-s-tiny-home-property-in-boca-chica-south-texas-everything-you-need-to-know

[Bud]

One needs a place to not only sleep, but shower, shave, store clothing, eat, do all those "little" things. It is fairytales to me that he lives in his offices.

[EEVblog]

I suspect Musk doesn't have a "home"; he just has offices where he sleeps. The number of hours C-suite folks can put in is impressive.

Yep, he has a tiny house at Starbase where he can sleep while working there. Or at least he did, not sure if that's still the case. I know there has been lot of real houses built near Starbase for employees. So its possible he uses one of those now.

Tesla fans famously started a crowdfunder to buy him a couch after learning that he slept on the floor in a boardroom because the couch sucked.

[free_electron]

I guess the only real way to know for sure will be to ask someone who worked super hard for Musk 5 years after the fact about that time in their life and if they thought it was a positive or negative. 

10 years. Long hours, but it was amazing to see things come to life. Anything goes. No idea is too crazy to try ( provided it has a proper foundation. Hollow balloons get popped very fast. ). Managers stayed out of the way. They were there to make sure engineers could do their work. No endless meetings, no busywork. Not 50 layers of middle management like in old companies where middle managers have built their small imperium and are furiously protecting their little castle. No NIH syndrome (not invented here) . No holding back information to keep your butt in the comfy seat. Imperium building was grounds for immediate dismissal. If you need some information you did not have to go up the command chain to ask permission. Just go ask the people directly.

Seeing the cars , chargers, megapacks, stationary storage come to life was very fulfilling. But, 10 years was enough. I'm not the youngest anymore and it became hard to keep up with the young racehorses. I wanted something a bit slower. And then i ended up making rockets -facepalm- and eVTOL -facepalm-. More of the same race madness. 

And , yes, i can confirm he sometimes slept at the office. His desk ( yes, desk, not a cozy corner office with a door ) was like 3 rows over from where i sat. There was a small room behind that desk with a bed so he could crash there. Same at the factory. He'd sometimes spend the night on a couch in the breakroom. He does work 100 hours+ a week.

Then again, he has no commute problems or any other encumberances of life. There's always a car ready to take him to where-ever, including the airport where his jet is on standby.

[EEVblog]

One needs a place to not only sleep, but shower, shave, store clothing, eat, do all those "little" things. It is fairytales to me that he lives in his offices.

If Mrs EEVblog ever booted me out, I'd sleep at the lab.

[Bud]

That is what i was saying - where are you going to do all other things beside sleeping? Inevitably converting you lab into a living space. Then it is not a (dedicated) lab anymore.