Flying Tesla Roadster

[Psi]

a detailed 1:8 RC scale model of the car with gas bottle that can do the flip trick & stick to walls.
$ for toy manufacturers  one for adult collectors 

Hehe. Anything with that much compressed air would rip your skin off at point blank.

[Gyro]

I wonder if the cold gas thrusters will be legal to operate on the road - even if just for forward momentum - or if it will be strictly off road only?  I am imagining now that we will get even more videos where Tesla drivers wipe the pants off people who have powerful ICE cars at the lights.

There are probably no laws that actually prohibit them ( yet!)

It's called a "reckless driving" charge. No need for new laws.

In my state of NSW:
AI Summary:
You commit this offense if you drive a motor vehicle on a road:
• Furiously (with great haste, anger, or aggression, such as high-speed tailgating or lane-weaving)
• Recklessly (with an actual awareness of and indifference to a real risk of serious harm)
• At a speed or in a manner dangerous to the public

As long as you stay under the speed limit, 0-60 in 0.8 secs, under control, seems just fine!

Until the exhaust totals the car behind you at the lights.

Just adding insult to injury after the driver has turned on the downforce fans, excavating the contents of the nearest pothole and firing it out of the back.

[tszaboo]

The upside down part driving was more impressive/impactful for me than the compressed air jump.
But I can already see an issue with it. So the car is sucking air from the bottom to provide more downforce, for more cornering speed. For a race truck, maybe. I can already see how gravel, loose rubber, dirt water and everything else could wreak havoc on such a system. It's an idea that sounds too easy, others must have had this before. But then, others have done it apparently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray_Automotive_T.50

A distinctive feature of the GMA T.50 is the 8.5 kW 40 cm aerodynamic fan integrated into the rear of the car, powered by a 48 volt electrical motor. Inspired by the Brabham BT46B Formula One car, it is purpose-built to significantly improve the ground effect of the T.50. As the T.50 makes use of very aggressive and steep angled rear diffusers, this in turn creates substantial turbulent or semi-stalled air passing over the diffuser when the T.50 has its fan inactive. By utilising the integrated aerodynamic fan, the T.50 can suck the air under the car at a 90-degree angle and provide a significant increase in overall downforce as it provides a laminar flow of air passing over the rear diffuser, thus, creating a greater level of suction in tandem with the Venturi effect, created underneath the car, ahead of the steep rear diffusers.

[Randy222]

The upside down part driving was more impressive/impactful for me than the compressed air jump.
But I can already see an issue with it. So the car is sucking air from the bottom to provide more downforce, for more cornering speed. For a race truck, maybe. I can already see how gravel, loose rubber, dirt water and everything else could wreak havoc on such a system. It's an idea that sounds too easy, others must have had this before. But then, others have done it apparently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Murray_Automotive_T.50

The only way to go fast on 4wheels where the vehicle is basically an airplane wing, is to create the counter downforce needed to keep the wheels on the ground.

You cited Murray, but the worlds fastest with biggest vacuum-fan on fastest car, The McMurtry Spéirling.

My Fav vid of the car
https://youtu.be/TptzkkbC1vE

https://youtu.be/OWYaxh4wPPw

https://youtu.be/0xv5Fm0rPJQ



So, again, old tech folks.

As for the Tesla, it almost appeared that it was in a track holding wheels to ramp, but if that was a suction fan, nothing new at all.

[Randy222]

a detailed 1:8 RC scale model of the car with gas bottle that can do the flip trick & stick to walls.
$ for toy manufacturers  one for adult collectors 

Hehe. Anything with that much compressed air would rip your skin off at point blank.

A small power washer from std box store can do serious damage, cutting down to bone if you make a mistake.

[Cyclotron]

These guys are really breaking new ground on this Roadster. I can't wait to see more details on the compressor/scrubber systems.

I wonder if they use nozzles that can be vectored. I doubt they are.  I'm guessing they've had to do a lot of materials analysis, I know they used some coatings from the SpaceX team.

Tesla and Spacex are really at the cutting edge in both of their domains and word is they may be merged. Then we can expect the next moon lander to include a Tesla moon rover.

I've been reading up on the advancements and the dual side cooling and weight reduction are great aspects that I'm sure will be introduce into mass market EVs. It's a no brainer. They switched from steel casings on the cells to aluminum for weight savings and greater heat dissipation.

They are claiming the dual drive has 1/3 more power than the Plaid at half the mass. That's some returns on engineering investments. And the dual cooling

I'd love an RC scale model. They should make them and Musk could give away a Roadster2 or SpaceShip RC with each stock he's claiming he will give to each US child. 

[Psi]

I'm pretty sure the main reason to merge is to regain control over the company instead of having to pander to a board of directors.

It's kind of weird how the general people tend to be hardcore against massive single-owner companies and want them run by a board of directors instead, but then how boards are terrible at making good decision, or responding to market changes, or actually getting anything done. They tend to just suck away the companies profit while trying not to rock the boat and trying to maximize short term profits before they leave for their next position.
Dictatorships in Government = evil.  Dictatorships in companies = innovation/progress/long-term-profit. At least IMHO.

[Randy222]

Tesla and Spacex are really at the cutting edge in both of their domains

29 other eV makers worldwide say the same thing about their eV vehicles.
Can a Tesla be controlled from a handheld Android? BYD has been doing cool-neat shit for many years now, and now Chery is coming into Canada.

The only thing I know of about Tesla that is/was actually a great engineering piece of work, was their e-motors. But that too has massive competition.

So big picture is, ..... worldwide, not just Tesla.

[Cyclotron]

Tesla and Spacex are really at the cutting edge in both of their domains

29 other eV makers worldwide say the same thing about their eV vehicles.
Can a Tesla be controlled from a handheld Android? BYD has been doing cool-neat shit for many years now, and now Chery is coming into Canada.

The only thing I know of about Tesla that is/was actually a great engineering piece of work, was their e-motors. But that too has massive competition.

So big picture is, ..... worldwide, not just Tesla.

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?). You're certainly welcome to your opinion, although I don't share your assessment.
You've repeatedly professed how unimpressed you are by all this, yet continue returning with much the same refrain. I was beginning to think "what's for dinner?" was going to become your signature engineering analysis.

You selectively quoted my observation that Tesla and SpaceX are at the cutting edge of their respective fields, then countered with 29 other EV manufacturers. Well, how many of those 29 are developing reusable orbital rockets? 

More importantly, you skipped the actual engineering observations surrounding that quote: compressor and scrubber systems, possible thrust vectoring, materials, dual-sided battery cooling, reduced cell weight, and the claimed power-to-weight improvements.

Instead, we get:

Can a Tesla be controlled from a handheld Android? BYD has been doing cool-neat shit for many years now, and now Chery is coming into Canada.

  A car imported to Canada is innovative? 

I'm delighted there's worldwide competition and innovation. Nobody suggested Tesla has a monopoly on either. You can stop making up arguments to argue against now. 

But pointing to other manufacturers doing interesting things doesn't somehow erase what Tesla's engineers have accomplished.
There's plenty of legitimate engineering to discuss here without turning every development into another opportunity to flog the Musk horse.

[Analog Kid]

One point of confusion for me: folks have been writing about how the suction system creates "downforce" to keep the car on the upside-down part of the ramp.

Shouldn't that be "upforce" instead? I mean, it's allowing the car to cling to the bottom surface of the ramp against the force of gravity, yes?

[Psi]

29 other eV makers worldwide say the same thing about their eV vehicles.
Can a Tesla be controlled from a handheld Android?

? yes, since the 2016 Tesla summon feature.

[Analog Kid]

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?).

By the same token you reveal yourself to be a quite uncritical Musk fanboi by your repeated postings here.

[Cyclotron]

One point of confusion for me: folks have been writing about how the suction system creates "downforce" to keep the car on the upside-down part of the ramp.

Shouldn't that be "upforce" instead? I mean, it's allowing the car to cling to the bottom surface of the ramp against the force of gravity, yes?

We can just say they use "The Force"

They are also coming out with a new bus, see attachment.

[Cyclotron]

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?).

By the same token you reveal yourself to be a quite uncritical Musk fanboi by your repeated postings here.

I think you're lying. Because you're hurt due to being a Randy222 fanboi. Love's in the air?

Did you just skip the post where I critiqued Musk?  That's the thing about reading the covers and having your biases AK, you only see and read what you want. Do tell me if you need me to point you to the post.

[Randy222]

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?). You're certainly welcome to your opinion, although I don't share your assessment.

No hate, just calling out the obvious.
Nobody was attempting to convince you of sharing my assessment.
I most definitely cant stand crapple, a company that just keeps ripping people off and touting their stuff like its light years ahead of Samsung or others. But the story is the same, it's your money, waste it any way you like.

I think when EVs were being pushed around as if the govt was telling everyone everywhere that the days of gasoline were over, most loved Elon and Tesla then. As soon as that BS went in the garbage and Elon took a side, then all the love for Elon turned into hate. Very strange how that works.

I would rather Tesla focus on making EVs that use more advanced power system, not toxic battery crap. Lets see some 1-off HFCEV items, then it will become interesting. Until then, it's kinda like going to the circus.

One point of confusion for me: folks have been writing about how the suction system creates "downforce" to keep the car on the upside-down part of the ramp.

Shouldn't that be "upforce" instead? I mean, it's allowing the car to cling to the bottom surface of the ramp against the force of gravity, yes?

I suspect you already know........
I guess for the engineers its a vector normalized nomenclature in some way, so perhaps roof to tires is always the "down force". The "up force" is there too, roadway pushing back on the tires.
I suspect you already know.

[Cyclotron]

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?). You're certainly welcome to your opinion, although I don't share your assessment.

No hate, just calling out the obvious.
Nobody was attempting to convince you of sharing my assessment.
I most definitely cant stand crapple, a company that just keeps ripping people off and touting their stuff like its light years ahead of Samsung or others. But the story is the same, it's your money, waste it any way you like.

I think when EVs were being pushed around as if the govt was telling everyone everywhere that the days of gasoline were over, most loved Elon and Tesla then. As soon as that BS went in the garbage and Elon took a side, then all the love for Elon turned into hate. Very strange how that works.

I would rather Tesla focus on making EVs that use more advanced power system, not toxic battery crap. Lets see some 1-off HFCEV items, then it will become interesting. Until then, it's kinda like going to the circus.

One point of confusion for me: folks have been writing about how the suction system creates "downforce" to keep the car on the upside-down part of the ramp.

Shouldn't that be "upforce" instead? I mean, it's allowing the car to cling to the bottom surface of the ramp against the force of gravity, yes?

I suspect you already know........
I guess for the engineers its a vector normalized nomenclature in some way, so perhaps roof to tires is always the "down force". The "up force" is there too, roadway pushing back on the tires.
I suspect you already know.

You want the company that won the battle between EVs (Tesla) and Hydrogen Fuel Cells (Toyota) to switch?  That's an interesting, though fairly unreasonable wish. Tesla has invested, and yes, created the EV market and its recharging network. Why would they want to go back on the bet they made on EVs?  They won.  Even Toyota has given up on Fuel Cells in the passenger car market.  Where ya been?  I think they are still doing something in heavy industry/trucking. Maybe ask your android driven friends over at BYD to switch their focus to Fuel Cells? As you said, they were innovative enough to get one imported to Canada.

Because it's too slow to go crawl manually and my memory among other things is too short I asked google gemini on the web to create a bullet list of the wholly invented, innovations, or market creation things Tesla has done.  I know it doesn't align with your view that Tesla is not innovating but hey, facts are facts.  And yes, the Roadster2 as a demonstration of new engineering is also innovation.

1. Original Tesla inventions and proprietary engineering
- North American Charging System (NACS)
- Supercharger hardware and charging architecture
- Octovalve thermal management
- 4680 tabless battery cell architecture
- Tesla structural battery pack
- Tesla proprietary battery management systems
- Tesla Etherloop
- Tesla 48V electrical implementation
- Tesla custom motor designs
- Tesla proprietary inverter designs
- Tesla gigacasting manufacturing processes
- Cybertruck stainless-steel air-bending process
- Cybertruck steer-by-wire implementation
- Tesla FSD AI hardware
- Tesla Dojo architecture
- Tesla dry-electrode battery manufacturing processes
- Tesla vehicle software architecture
2. Major innovations Tesla introduced or popularized
- 2008 Roadster
- 2012 Model S
- Over-the-air vehicle updates
- Software-defined automobiles
- Mass-market centralized touchscreen controls
- Integrated EV skateboard architecture
- Long-range battery-electric performance
- High-volume cylindrical-cell battery packs
- Integrated route planning and charging
- Automatic battery preconditioning
- Plug-and-charge Supercharging
- Mobile-app vehicle integration
- Remote vehicle diagnostics
- High-volume EV gigafactories
- Advanced heat-pump integration
- One-pedal driving
- Consumer EV energy efficiency
- Extensive camera-based driver assistance
- EV safety engineering
- Large-scale grid battery systems
- Residential battery integration
3. Substantial industry and societal impacts
- Forced an automotive industry transition
- Changed consumer perception
- Created widespread competitive pressure
- Established a major North American charging standard
- Expanded high-speed charging infrastructure
- Accelerated battery investment
- Accelerated battery cost competition
- Transformed automotive software expectations
- Changed automobile manufacturing methods
- Advanced automotive electrical architectures
- Changed automotive dealership expectations
- Accelerated charging interoperability
- Helped establish residential energy storage
- Advanced grid-scale energy storage
- Increased pressure to improve EV performance
- Influenced automotive engineering talent and investment

Did you miss dinner?

[CatalinaWOW]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today.  There are many models around the world that are debatably better in some metric, but most are relatively recent to the market.  Tesla has been producing them in quantity for more than a decade now.  SpaceX's Falcon9 is clearly the lowest cost to orbit rocket at the moment.  And has either the best or second best safety record depending on who is keeping score.  I don't see how there can be any debate that these are front runners in world technology. 

The flying car debate is driven by the same motivations.  Yes flying cars have been around for 75 or more years.  With qualifiers.  Some had to trailer their wings in car mode.  All had to stop and do a fairly complex conversion involving wrenches.  Much more recently, something like 15-20 years ago as I remember someone came up with one that converted at the push of a button.  But it still required pulling off the road and doing the conversion and then required a fairly long runway to get off the ground.  Those are very different accomplishments than what Tesla just demonstrated.  The deprecation of this accomplishment is much like saying the newest iPhones are doing nothing new, that hand held devices doing similar things have been available since the late 1980s or early 1990s (Apple Newton for example).  Is the Tesla totally different than anything before.  No.  Thruster lifted vehicles have existed for decades, with maybe the most famous and developed being NASAs lunar landing trainer of the 1960s.  But the integration of systems and precision of control is new and impressive.   There is a reason that every backyard tinkerer and ambitious tech company (or Evel Knievel type showman) hasn't done this previously.  It is hard.  Is it useful?  Maybe in some very unusual and contrived situations, but just like every other flying car over the last 75 years it isn't headed for everyone's driveway.  And I don't think that Tesla is advertising that.   At most it will be an ego buy for a few uber rich who will almost surely park it and brag about it rather than trying to drive it.  Maybe a Red Bull show now and then.  In that it is like the "flying belts" that have been around since the 1960s that have been used in shows, stunts and movies and nowhere else.

As an example of the ego buy market, check out the "Pivotal Helix" aka "Blackfly".  A person in a neighboring town has purchased one.  He takes it to air shows and occasionally flies it.  Mostly just talks about it to anyone who will listen.  As far as I know it has never commuted anywhere.

[Cyclotron]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today.  There are many models around the world that are debatably better in some metric, but most are relatively recent to the market.  Tesla has been producing them in quantity for more than a decade now.  SpaceX's Falcon9 is clearly the lowest cost to orbit rocket at the moment.  And has either the best or second best safety record depending on who is keeping score.  I don't see how there can be any debate that these are front runners in world technology. 

The flying car debate is driven by the same motivations.  Yes flying cars have been around for 75 or more years.  With qualifiers.  Some had to trailer their wings in car mode.  All had to stop and do a fairly complex conversion involving wrenches.  Much more recently, something like 15-20 years ago as I remember someone came up with one that converted at the push of a button.  But it still required pulling off the road and doing the conversion and then required a fairly long runway to get off the ground.  Those are very different accomplishments than what Tesla just demonstrated.  The deprecation of this accomplishment is much like saying the newest iPhones are doing nothing new, that hand held devices doing similar things have been available since the late 1980s or early 1990s (Apple Newton for example).  Is the Tesla totally different than anything before.  No.  Thruster lifted vehicles have existed for decades, with maybe the most famous and developed being NASAs lunar landing trainer of the 1960s.  But the integration of systems and precision of control is new and impressive.   There is a reason that every backyard tinkerer and ambitious tech company (or Evel Knievel type showman) hasn't done this previously.  It is hard.  Is it useful?  Maybe in some very unusual and contrived situations, but just like every other flying car over the last 75 years it isn't headed for everyone's driveway.  And I don't think that Tesla is advertising that.   At most it will be an ego buy for a few uber rich who will almost surely park it and brag about it rather than trying to drive it.  Maybe a Red Bull show now and then.  In that it is like the "flying belts" that have been around since the 1960s that have been used in shows, stunts and movies and nowhere else.

As an example of the ego buy market, check out the "Pivotal Helix" aka "Blackfly".  A person in a neighboring town has purchased one.  He takes it to air shows and occasionally flies it.  Mostly just talks about it to anyone who will listen.  As far as I know it has never commuted anywhere.

I agree with your sentiment. I have been in a few Tesla cars and honestly, I'm not a fan of the fit and finish. I think the technology is fantastic. I probably won't buy one anytime soon if ever?  I don't know. I have Lexus and the wife drives a Subaru and neither of us have a commute. We went a long time with only one car but that didn't really work out.

But, I've been in a Tesla in Fully Autonomous mode and its pretty cool. I've also ridden in most if not all the automated taxies around and they are really cool. I'll finally get to try the Zoox in 3 weeks while I'm in Vegas. I think the Waymo is probably the most advanced thing I've ridden in yet.

Oh, I hate hidden door handles. I can't imagine taking something so mundane to such a horrible design regardless of the coolness, and aerodynamics.  And while I'm not a fan of the Tesla interior (The ones I've been in), the led lights, the window that moves to open the door, I am impressed with the engineering and technology.  From the chassis to the battery pack, the cooling, and management, its an amazing feat of engineering all around. Also, not a fan of most of the Tesla's styling to be be honest. I thought the Cybertruck would grow on me but, nope. A friend has one and he loves it. He bought the "Beast" I think. I'm amazed at how fast that thing is. It feels like a trash can (my wife calls it a trash can) with a rocket engine.

I don't have much to compare it to. I've only ridden in Tesla EVs. Hybrids yes and I like a lot of those. I travel a lot so I have the opportunity to ride in or drive many.
This being an international board, I'd be curious what other's have seen in innovation and experiences in EVs. Is Tesla tops or meh?

I really like the Rivian styling but for those damn headlights. I'd seriously considering buying one if they changed those but they probably won't.

[tszaboo]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today. 

UI is terrible where the speed is not in front of you, but on the infotainment.
Which will blow up if you drive a lot because they write the firmware flash the same place over and over again, and ask for you for money for a repair.
The panel gaps are uneven.
Quality was quite bad, although AFAIK they got that under control.
Tesla cars are at the bottom of reliability ratings.
Headlights are outright safety risk for the other drivers.
They made the first car since Lancia that rusts half a year after owning it.
Repairs are expensive, to the point where repairing the back door of a Model X was more than getting another brand (other brand) new car.
2 year warranty? Korean and Japanese brands have started to come with more than a decade...
I'm sorry, but calling them the "among the best cars" is a hyperbole. They are very flash-y yes, and some people find them desirable.

[Randy222]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today. 

...... and the most expensive.

See the theme.

We can certainly look at Tesla like upper tier of Benz, Lexus, Audi, but very few people actually need that level.

You want the company that won the battle between EVs (Tesla) and Hydrogen Fuel Cells (Toyota) to switch?  That's an interesting, though fairly unreasonable wish.

I suspect you do not live in a small box.
Toyota is doing heavy R&D in the HFCEV space, and is one of the leaders in the H consortium.
What you see today is Toyota being smart by 1) not embracing all-batt EV, and 2) capitalizing on Hybrid.
Toyota is in their transition plan, their next step will be HFCEV, and they are timing it with H innovations to market (supply & delivery).

Tesla is considered niche. Only 7.8% of EV worldwide, and only 0.53% of all vehicles.

[Cyclotron]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today. 

...... and the most expensive.

See the theme.

We can certainly look at Tesla like upper tier of Benz, Lexus, Audi, but very few people actually need that level.

You want the company that won the battle between EVs (Tesla) and Hydrogen Fuel Cells (Toyota) to switch?  That's an interesting, though fairly unreasonable wish.

I suspect you do not live in a small box.
Toyota is doing heavy R&D in the HFCEV space, and is one of the leaders in the H consortium.
What you see today is Toyota being smart by 1) not embracing all-batt EV, and 2) capitalizing on Hybrid.
Toyota is in their transition plan, their next step will be HFCEV, and they are timing it with H innovations to market (supply & delivery).

Tesla is considered niche. Only 7.8% of EV worldwide, and only 0.53% of all vehicles.

I don't know why you called Tesla "niche." Again, you refuse to admit your own hate of Musk and Tesla by association, so I assume this is just more of that. Tesla won the EV vs. Hydrogen race and leads the EV market technologically. Denying that is just B.S. and reflects a critical-thinking disability. Maybe this is a symptom of EDS, a sort of Tourette-like thing that produces these ad hoc comments.

I am a Toyota fan and own their product as my primary vehicle. I follow their engineering advancements and have a close friend who works on their Safety Engineering team.  I am not aware of Toyota planning any new designs or re-entering the passenger car market with hydrogen fuel cells.  You're implying you know they are, so please share the details or links.

Toyota is trying to find a market for its fuel cell investment. That is 100% focused on heavy transport, and I know of no plans for hybrids or passenger cars.

The Hydrogen supply and delivery network has contracted and continues to spiral down.  The biggest fans of the market you claim is coming, those who already own them, are pretty frustrated, and Toyota has even had to step in and offer a rental program for Mira owners.

Clean energy media is full of articles about the failures of the market you claim Toyota is working on, its failure to appear, and Toyota's pivot away from it.

Imagine the sting of losing 65% of your hydrogen-fueled car's value in one year.  I doubt those owners are very happy. But the good news for fanboys like you is you can get one cheap. Let us know how you love it.

So do share if you have sources that counter Toyota's own CTO in saying the Toyota endeavor in fuel cell passenger cars was a failure and that they are pivoting to heavy transport instead.

Dinner must not be ready, but I'm waiting to see what your EDS Tourettes produces next. 

[CatalinaWOW]

Somewhere between the haters and the fanboys is the truth.  Tesla cars are among the best in the world today. 

...... and the most expensive.

See the theme.

We can certainly look at Tesla like upper tier of Benz, Lexus, Audi, but very few people actually need that level.

You want the company that won the battle between EVs (Tesla) and Hydrogen Fuel Cells (Toyota) to switch?  That's an interesting, though fairly unreasonable wish.

I suspect you do not live in a small box.
Toyota is doing heavy R&D in the HFCEV space, and is one of the leaders in the H consortium.
What you see today is Toyota being smart by 1) not embracing all-batt EV, and 2) capitalizing on Hybrid.
Toyota is in their transition plan, their next step will be HFCEV, and they are timing it with H innovations to market (supply & delivery).

Tesla is considered niche. Only 7.8% of EV worldwide, and only 0.53% of all vehicles.

Statistics can be adjusted to tell any story you wish.  Tesla most expensive?  I can't speak for world pricing, but here in the US Tesla is middle to high end on pricing.   Not top end.   In the past year my wife and I both went electric.  Neither of us bought Teslas.  But the reason was not price for either of us.  My buy came down to Tesla and another vehicle, and Tesla lost out to my preference for more rear quarter visibility.  Nothing to do with any of the complaints you mention.  And we do owe Tesla some gratitude.  My car uses the Tesla charging connector, and hers comes with an adaptor that allows use of the Tesla charging network.  There is no question that availability of Tesla chargers is superior in the US.  Probably superior to all other public vendors combined.  Other vehicles we looked into included Rivians, GMC Sierra PU and a few models of Tesla.  Rivians are better vehicles but far pricier.   The electric PU was very nice, but just too big even for my American tastes and also very pricey.

Getting service on a Tesla is hard.  But my observation is that it is hard for all EVs.  Mine had a minor defect (USB ports not charging) and it took 6 weeks to get a scheduled appointment at the dealer for service, then 5 weeks after diagnosis of the problem for a replacement part to arrive, and then 4 more weeks to schedule the appointment for installation.  It seems that there is a shortage of technicians trained in the EV technology and a new and week supply chain for the components.  Not too surprising that it isn't as mature as the ICE chain which has been maturing for a century.

All in all I am very happy with my EV, but am sure I would also have been happy with the Tesla.

The small market share number is kind of meaningless to most of us on this forum.  Any non-Chinese EV will be a tiny fraction of the world market.  From street videos I have seen close to half the vehicles on the streets in China are electric, most from domestic suppliers.  No surprise, at this point in time China rules the world manufacturing space.  But here too Tesla gets some credit.  They shared many of their patents with all, and were a big part of the initial market for the batteries. 

[helius]

I was anti-Tesla since I heard the company's name: from the very first word. Why else name a company after a show-boating, part-time fraudster unless that was what you intended to emulate?

I should point out that I am aware that the name was chosen by the initial founders, before Elon Musk took it over. But he was the cornerstone initial investor and the company wouldn't likely exist without his involvement.

[Cyclotron]

I was anti-Tesla since I heard the company's name: from the very first word. Why else name a company after a show-boating, part-time fraudster unless that was what you intended to emulate?

I should point out that I am aware that the name was chosen by the initial founders, before Elon Musk took it over. But he was the cornerstone initial investor and the company wouldn't likely exist without his involvement.

Are you anti-alternating-current too?

[Cyclotron]

Randy, it is obvious you have a profound hate for Musk (EDS or just ED?).

By the same token you reveal yourself to be a quite uncritical Musk fanboi by your repeated postings here.

I think you're lying. Because you're hurt due to being a Randy222 fanboi. Love's in the air?

Did you just skip the post where I critiqued Musk?  That's the thing about reading the covers and having your biases AK, you only see and read what you want. Do tell me if you need me to point you to the post.

@Analog Kid, are you going to be a stand-up guy and make amends for your obvious mistake, or just let it ride?  It's your reputation, I guess. Do you care for Randy222 so much that you have to lie for him and call me names?