Tesla & other EV's and hybrids are dangerous!

[Analog Kid]

For US/Canada we only signal when about to exit the roundabout, not when entering. So in your example the southbound car should wait if it can't safely enter before the other car.

https://dot.ca.gov/caltrans-near-me/district-3/d3-popular-links/d3-roundabouts

Interesting: that's the first I've read of that rule or convention:

Use your turn signals when you change lanes or exit the roundabout.

Changing lanes in a multilane roundabout I can see, but why signal when exiting? Unless that means changing lanes.
Hmm; thinking about it, I guess that would be a courtesy to cars entering since they then know that you're not going to pass in front of them. So that would make sense. (Although the old "trust, but verify" thing would be the way to go, so as not to collide with a driver who put their turn signal on by mistake ...)

[Mr.B]

For US/Canada we only signal when about to exit the roundabout, not when entering. So in your example the southbound car should wait if it can't safely enter before the other car.

Seems strange to me.

The southbound car has no idea if the car entering from the south is going north or west.
If the southbound car waits it is holding up traffic if the car entering from the south is actually going north.

In New Zealand you are required to indicate your intentions.

@Analog Kid
We are allowed to enter an intersection while other traffic is in the circle.
I guess thats the significant difference here.

[Monkeh]

Changing lanes in a multilane roundabout I can see, but why signal when exiting?

To inform drivers waiting to enter of your intention to exit, allowing them to proceed to enter sooner. Roundabouts are not stop signs, keeping moving is the goal, not waiting for eveyone else to disappear.

On smaller roundabouts you do this on approach to inform drivers before you arrive (because you yield to what will be there. Everything is done in advance, because things are in motion..).

We are allowed to enter an intersection while other traffic is in the circle.
I guess thats the significant difference here.

They're allowed to there, too, but the concept of giving way without stopping is a little lost on them after decades of abusive stop sign overuse.

[Analog Kid]

@Analog Kid
We are allowed to enter an intersection while other traffic is in the circle.
I guess thats the significant difference here.

Well, so are we, just not so as to present a danger of colliding with traffic already in the circle. I mean, you still have to yield if a car is about to pass in front of you, right?

[Mr.B]

... the concept of giving way without stopping is a little lost on them after decades of abusive stop sign overuse.

LOL...

[Mr.B]

...you still have to yield if a car is about to pass in front of you, right?

My point is that in NZ we let them know we are about to pass in front of them by using our indicators...

[Monkeh]

Well, so are we, just not so as to present a danger of colliding with traffic already in the circle. I mean, you still have to yield if a car is about to pass in front of you, right?

You do, but if they give (and you can prove, of course) a misleading signal as to their intention, they're at fault partially or wholly, depending on the circumstances.

This is no different to waiting at a T junction or crossroad for traffic - you may proceed if they signal they'll be exiting and therefore not conflicting with you. Assuming, of course, you're sufficiently confident their signal is to exit prior to reaching you, not for the next turning or a driveway just past you or pulling to the side of the road just past you.. This is why all signals are a call to pay attention to their actions - speed and position.

[themadhippy]

for those not familiar with roundabouts best ya avoid milton keynes, and  swindon

[langwadt]

Changing lanes in a multilane roundabout I can see, but why signal when exiting? Unless that means changing lanes.

imagine the round is infinity large, then it is just a straight road with exits, you don't signal that you intend to keep going straight, you signal when you intend to exit the straight road

[Analog Kid]

...you still have to yield if a car is about to pass in front of you, right?

My point is that in NZ we let them know we are about to pass in front of them by using our indicators...

Wellll, ackshooly you let them know you're about to pass in front of them by not using your turn signal ...

[Analog Kid]

for those not familiar with roundabouts best ya avoid milton keynes, and  swindon

So a Yank flies into Gatwick, rents a car at the airport, ends up at the Magic Roundabout, first time driving on the "wrong side of the road".
Yikes.

[Mr.B]

Wellll, ackshooly you let them know you're about to pass in front of them by not using your turn signal ...

I'm not quite sure we are both on the same page.
Never mind.

Below is the requirement in NZ, albeit driving on the left side of the road.

[jonovid]

Wellll, ackshooly you let them know you're about to pass in front of them by not using your turn signal ...

I'm not quite sure we are both on the same page.
Never mind.

Below is the requirement in NZ, albeit driving on the left side of the road.

back when I was a driver-
 navigating a roundabout was an essential skill   your turning indicator is key to right then left to exit.
older vehicles had a mechanical lock-out that prevented the turning indicator from working in the
opposite direction to the steering wheel. the auto return would fight with your turning indicator as you exit a roundabout.
as IMO others need to know your know your intentions.

[Psi]

When it comes to indicator rules at roundabouts, there's what the road rules say, and what is the safest to do.
They're not always the same.

Usually the road rules don't distinguish between small vs large or single lane vs double lane with regard to indicating.
IMHO indicating at very small double lane roundabouts is risky.
It's super easy for other drivers to misinterpret what your indicating means.
Larger roundabouts or single lane are much better suited to indicating.

[newbrain]

[...]
Keep in mind the rule that cars already in the circle have priority over those entering.
In other words, all cars entering must yield to those in the circle. (That's why they say "Look left". In your country that would be the opposite.)
So it's on the southbound driver to wait until all traffic is clear before entering. Hence no need to signal.

Is that a global rule in USA?

At least in Italy, the usual priority rules are valid: give way to vehicles coming from your right.
This means that cars entering the roundabout have priority UNLESS there's a "Give Way" sign at the access.

Source: my wallet, I recently got a 900 € reimbursement from my insurance, as an a**hole did not give way while I entered the roundabout.
(Links to Italian regulations and case law on request).
Note, though, that 90% (figure pulled from thin air) of roundabouts do have the give way sign.

[Siwastaja]

[...]
Keep in mind the rule that cars already in the circle have priority over those entering.
In other words, all cars entering must yield to those in the circle. (That's why they say "Look left". In your country that would be the opposite.)
So it's on the southbound driver to wait until all traffic is clear before entering. Hence no need to signal.

Is that a global rule in USA?

At least in Italy, the usual priority rules are valid: give way to vehicles coming from your right.
This means that cars entering the roundabout have priority UNLESS there's a "Give Way" sign at the access.

Source: my wallet, I recently got a 900 € reimbursement from my insurance, as an a**hole did not give way while I entered the roundabout.
(Links to Italian regulations and case law on request).
Note, though, that 90% (figure pulled from thin air) of roundabouts do have the give way sign.

Interesting differences. Here it's the same as said by Analog Kid - those coming in to the roundabout always yield to those already driving in the roundabout. However there is a subtle detail: roundabout in itself does not define the priority order; having to yield is always signaled with the usual yield sign (upside down triangle). Rather, it's a guarantee that these yield signs will always exist at roundabouts. Law itself defines roundabout as a series of intersections, and places some special rules such as disallowing stopping in the roundabout (from which you can indirectly see that not having the yield signs would cause a serious conflict). However the yield signs are not mentioned in the law explicitly.

[u666sa]

Went to a rescue a couple of week's ago
Driver had manged to lock them selves in a car and flatten the battery , couldn't get out so called the fire brigade.
The only manual release on this car is the rear hatch witch the driver could not get to
ended up popping the bonnet and connecting a external battery.
The regulators have been caught with there pants down on stupid designs like this.
and what moron at the manufacturers thinks this is a good idea.

There!

Thank you!

Now imagine if car was smoking -- NOT ON FIRE. Guy would be dead before you arrive.

roundabouts

We have a roundabout here at NE 175th street and NE 10th Avenue, in Miami. Do check it out on google street view! 
There is a round about, there are four entrances/exists into it, and each one has a stop sign. Okey. 
On top of that there is electronic camera that catches people that don't stop for stop signs.

 

Before there they made a roundabout, there used to be a normal 4-way stop sign intersection and it worked just fine.

[Monkeh]

Went to a rescue a couple of week's ago
Driver had manged to lock them selves in a car and flatten the battery , couldn't get out so called the fire brigade.
The only manual release on this car is the rear hatch witch the driver could not get to
ended up popping the bonnet and connecting a external battery.
The regulators have been caught with there pants down on stupid designs like this.
and what moron at the manufacturers thinks this is a good idea.

There!

Thank you!

Now imagine if car was smoking -- NOT ON FIRE. Guy would be dead before you arrive.

And this has nothing to do with EVs or hybrids, just bad design.

[u666sa]

And this has nothing to do with EVs or hybrids, just bad design.

Learn to use quotes properly, your answer looks like something spergs write.

/
People choose with dollar. If a vehicle poses safety risk people tend not to buy it. In the United States at least.

[Xena E]

[...] If a vehicle poses safety risk people tend not to buy it. In the United States at least.

And that's what made the Ford Pinto the best selling small car in the United States for ten years...

Oh, wait...

 

[Monkeh]

And this has nothing to do with EVs or hybrids, just bad design.

Learn to use quotes properly, your answer looks like something spergs write.

I know how to use quotes properly, I quoted the context. Your problem is with the message conflicting with your agenda, not the quote or the facts.

[Gyro]

It appears that the Chinese government has weighed in on flush electric door handles and lack of mechanical release - with a ban.

China bans hidden car door handles over safety concerns

China has banned hidden door handles on electric vehicles (EVs), making it the first country to stop the use of the controversial designs that were made popular by multi-billionaire Elon Musk's Tesla.

It comes as EVs are facing scrutiny from safety watchdogs around the world after a number of deadly incidents, including two fatal crashes in China involving Xiaomi EVs in which power failures were suspected to have prevented doors from being opened.

Under the new regulations, cars will only be allowed to be sold if they have a mechanical release both on the inside and outside of their doors, according to state media.

The new rules are due to take effect on 1 January 2027.

The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology rules require the outside of every passenger door except the boot, to have a recessed space measuring no smaller than 6cm (2 in) by 2cm by 2.5cm to allow access to the handle.

Inside the car there must be signs measuring at least 1cm by 0.7cm to show how to open the door.

Cars that have already been approved by authorities and are in the final stages of entering the Chinese market will have another two years to update their designs.

Hidden handles are widely used in China's new energy vehicle (NEV) market, which includes EVs as well as hybrid cars and those powered by fuel cells.

They feature in about 60% of the top 100 best-selling NEVs, according to data cited by government-controlled newspaper China Daily.

Although the measures will only apply to models sold in the Chinese market, the country's huge presence in the global car industry means the move is likely to have an impact around the world.

Tesla's door handles are already being investigated by US safety regulators and authorities in Europe are considering their own rules.

In November, the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) opened a probe focused on Tesla's electric-powered door handles, responding to reports that they suddenly stopped working, leaving children trapped in the cars.

The NHTSA said it had received nine complaints about the handles in Tesla's 2021 Model Y cars, the company's flagship model.

In four of the cases, the car owners resorted to breaking the window to resolve the issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp37g5nxe3lo

[Siwastaja]

It appears that the Chinese government has weighed in on flush electric door handles and lack of mechanical release - with a ban.

Thumbs up to the Chinese government on this. Hopefully EU will follow, and this stupidity is put to an end.

It was kinds fun when it was a gimmick by Tesla, because Tesla is a "special snowflake" full of gimmicks like this - that their customer segment wants. Plus, disruptive ideas are beneficial, sometimes things shot down "by common sense" end up being good (or stepping stone to some other innovation) despite all naysaying. We need Teslas, even though I would prefer something else.

However when everyone else started to copy Tesla it started to get boring pretty quick. There are no real upsides to these handles - only downsides, and some dangerously so. We know it now for sure, so we can now stop, and start thinking about the next disruptive idea.

Consumers hate them. Car journalists hate them. Car manufacturers themselves probably hate them, and are just waiting for the right moment they can obsolete them, without making themselves lose face by indirect admittance of fault by dropping them soon after introducing them. A ban helps them out of this, and everyone's happy.

[Gyro]

Interesting that China, where this will potentially have the most effect on car makers and, rightly or wrongly, we tend to associate with lax standards, is the first country to take decisive action on this nonsense. Whilst the US safety regulators and Europe are still 'thinking about' doing something. Time for the regulators to get up to speed and grow teeth.

[Haenk]

about time

While jammed doors, even in an accident, are rare now, electrical gremlins are not.