Author Topic: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703  (Read 21993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6442
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #175 on: October 15, 2017, 03:31:30 am »
I assume this is a new feature added to the 1703 that was requested by the masses.   Often now when starting the OS, it kicks off their store.  It's never done this the year prior to the 1703 forced upgrade so I assume it is new.   What's interesting is they start out trying to talk to their servers and all I get is a stupid spinner.   As I continued to monitor the traffic, they seem to switch to Akamai's and get the store to show a LinkedIn ad.   

I left the store application open and changed the router tables to include this entire block.  I then tried to access the store and after several minutes it fails.  So it does appear they will use the CDM for a backup.  Shutting down this block from Akamai did not seem to effect anything else, so far.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Red Squirrel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2470
  • Country: ca
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #176 on: October 15, 2017, 03:37:26 am »
I actually WANT to like windows 10, because 8 was so terrible, but the more I have to work with 10 the more I hate it and the more I'm glad I switched to Linux for my own stuff.
They are all frustrating.

I love Linux, but I have never once been able to successfully been ably to do a version upgrade to an Ubuntu derivative without a non-working result. Quite often, the GUI never starts properly after updating. I am sure it works for some people - particularly if they are only using standard applications, but I now have to just clean install for a version upgrade. If you do not update the Linux versions, it usually means you cannot run the latest versions of applications unless you compile them yourself. That could mean you are not getting the latest security updates and bug fixes for applications.

For this reason, I love the idea of the rolling updates - like Arch Linux derivatives - but at some point, the rolling updates will break things. No good for ordinary users. For example, a year or two ago, Samba (Windows network file sharing in Linux) decided to remove functionality from one of their services because they really wanted you to be using a different service to do that job. All of a sudden, perfectly working Windows shares stopped working.

I did suspect that Windows 10 was going to be a 100% rolling update, but now we have discovered that Windows 10 is actually a new Windows version every year. This year, it is TWO new versions (the Fall Creators Edition is coming out this Tuesday I think). I like using WSUSoffline so I can update PC's offline, but with Windows 10, the updates seem to be largely combined in 12 massive files (many 1Gbyte in size), so downloading the latest Windows 10 updates for 32 and 64 bit involves 5 to 10GBytes of downloads.

Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

I am still using Windows 8.1. It is better then Windows 7 as long as you configure it right so I don't have to use Metro (except for 1 window). If you like the Windows 7 interface, then the Windows 8.1 desktop is mostly the same, but the differences mostly improve it. I could not use Windows 8.1 "out of the box".  Windows 8.1 will be supported until Jan 2023, but Microsoft have killed my ability to recommend it as they will end non-security updates next year on current Intel processors. 8.1 has over 5 years of life. They are crippling it!  |O

Just as a guide, here are the current sizes of the WSUSoffline updates (for Win32 and Win64 together):

Windows 7: 5.9Gbytes
Windows 8.1: 7.1Gbytes
Windows 10: 12.2Gbytes

The Windows 7 updates are for 8 years of updates.
The Windows 10 updates are for just over 2 years of updates.

Most of the Windows 10 updates is for functionality that most of us do not need or want.

Yeah Linux has it's issues too, one thing that frustrates me the most about it is the permission system especially over networks, it's really not scalable if you want multiple users to be able to have different permission levels.  Ex: I can't imagine trying to manage it in a corporate environment.   That and I hate how UID/GIDs have to match across all systems, that is the stupidest thing. It does not even care about the username/password. There's ways to set it up differently but it's very convoluted and I could not imagine having to go through all those steps on each and every machine, if there was a lot to do. I guess you could script it though... that's where Linux shines, it's easier to automate stuff.

As far as windows 10 rolling updates I can't imagine how messy that is going to get over the years.  Patches on top of patches on top of patches etc... Well, I guess even new releases are basically that. :P   I don't understand how their OSes are so bloated though.  Like how do you possibly have THAT much more code every time without really having anything to show for it?  It's crazy.   Heck, they even remove stuff.  Like newer versions of windows don't have telnet, and other simple apps like that.  Super annoying.  You can install it, but if I'm troubleshooting something on a computer that's not mine, it's nice if it's already on there.
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15397
  • Country: za
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #177 on: October 15, 2017, 06:54:32 am »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.
 

Offline Buriedcode

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1293
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #178 on: October 15, 2017, 02:21:53 pm »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.

You can turn this off, although I do believe it is on by default.  Like so many annoying things about windows 10, you do have some control over them, you just have to go through the settings to turn off what you don't want/need.  Ads, 'game recommendations', error reporting etc.. can all be turned off, the settings for which are not hidden away.

Whilst I still prefer windows 7 - because as we get older we become more resistant to change - I don't like the idea of running an OS that no longer has support, and still has published vulnerabilities that will never be patched. Look at the regular wave of breaches for XP systems (that still has a significant market share in the UK  :palm: - it won't be long before it could happen to 7/8.1

Give it a year, and I'm sure there will be more information about customizing ones OS, optimizing memory usage and size making it more tolerable.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6442
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #179 on: October 15, 2017, 03:12:57 pm »
Remember Win10 also will use your internet connection as part of a form of bittorrent network to distribute patches and updates ( and who knows what else as well either way) to other machines. Thus best to say the network connection is metered, as that does turn it down a lot.
You can turn this off, although I do believe it is on by default.
I played around with it when they were pushing the 1703 update, just for the local.  Imagine the security problems if you could not disable it.  Although, I have seen them re-enable features like this that I have disabled.   Take the update service for example.  When I just ran services, it was no longer set to disabled and was running.  I disabled it, again.   :-DD 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Buriedcode

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1293
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #180 on: October 15, 2017, 03:34:18 pm »
Services will often be re-enabled after an update.  If you defer updates, and allow them to install one by one manually, you can keep track of it.  In some ways this is annoying, as you may have to do this every time, but on the flip side, it is part and parcel of keeping things 'up to date' for security.   I imagine they reset some settings because users may turn off features vital to security, then forget they have done so, leaving themselves open - and of course, if they lose valuable data they will blame the OS, despite the user turning off features designed to prevent that.
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6442
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #181 on: October 15, 2017, 03:47:03 pm »
To be clear I had disabled the update service after 1703 was installed, after blocking all the ports except for the three listed and after changing the router's tables to basically block all the traffic with Microsoft.   Enabling the auto updates does not seem to do much except generate unanswered traffic.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #182 on: October 15, 2017, 07:52:30 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?
 

Offline Red Squirrel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2470
  • Country: ca
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #183 on: October 15, 2017, 11:18:30 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?

Pretty much this, data is now worth more than anything now days.  And they know they have most people by the throat and most people are not going to switch to Linux, so they don't really care if they piss off people.  What makes it worse is that the majority of people don't even care and just say "I have nothing to hide" and accept it. 
 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 13853
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2017, 11:30:17 pm »
For the Windows 10 Pro haters, here are 2 ways to get Windows 10 Enterprise:

1. Get a license key here: https://digitalsguru.myshopify.com/products/windows-10-enterprise-product-key-code-32-64bit-full-version?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=36370201296
It's technically not compliant with EULA since you don't have SA agreement, but from MS activation server's perspective, there's no difference, so as long as you can keep your employees' mouth shut, it should be okay.

2. MS sells a Windows 10 Enterprise as service offering, called Windows 10 Enterprise E3/E5, managed by a MS "trusted" cloud service partner (so the CDP serves as domain controller, and your client computer runs Windows 10 Enterprise client version). This starts from $84 per year.
 

Online rdl

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #185 on: October 16, 2017, 01:30:05 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

2. Not interested in untrustworthy cloud anything, but $84 a year? I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.

For the Windows 10 Pro haters, here are 2 ways to get Windows 10 Enterprise:

1. Get a license key here: https://digitalsguru.myshopify.com/products/windows-10-enterprise-product-key-code-32-64bit-full-version?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=36370201296
It's technically not compliant with EULA since you don't have SA agreement, but from MS activation server's perspective, there's no difference, so as long as you can keep your employees' mouth shut, it should be okay.

2. MS sells a Windows 10 Enterprise as service offering, called Windows 10 Enterprise E3/E5, managed by a MS "trusted" cloud service partner (so the CDP serves as domain controller, and your client computer runs Windows 10 Enterprise client version). This starts from $84 per year.
 

Offline BradC

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1678
  • Country: au
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #186 on: October 16, 2017, 02:44:43 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

Before you do that, why not put a KMS server on another PC on your network and install Win 10 Enterprise with a KMS key? That'll get you up, running and activated. Then you can try all the telemetry disabling stuff to see if it's worth spending the $20 to illegitimately get a "legit" key.
 

Offline anishkgt

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 753
  • Country: qa
    • George Hobby
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #187 on: October 16, 2017, 07:30:35 am »
Sorry to hear Joe.  I use Veracrypt with 1607 and all is well.  WinPE or WinRE don't recognize the Veracrypt bootloader to load 1703 so it falls back on 1607 and prevents the Win10 "upgrade" .

I still get periodic fixes for 1607 layered on Veracrypt.  I would hope by the expiration of support for 1607, 1703 would have all bugs worked out.


Could you please share more on the VeraCypt. I did checkout what it was but since its related to security and encryption, i wish to know more about it. Windows does an encryption app called the BitLocker Drive encryption.
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15386
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #188 on: October 16, 2017, 08:27:12 am »
Just a heads up with enterprise edition. It still has baseline security telemetry when everything else is turned off. That means it farts off binaries in your system via windows defender and smart screen randomly.

This is why we’re making steps to kill it. Even via MDM/GPO it can’t meet our security policy.
 

Offline rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3934
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #189 on: October 16, 2017, 06:55:58 pm »
Why can't Microsoft sell us what we really want - a stable and lean OS that can run programs? Have a much cleaner and faster update process - say like Arch Linux's Pacman. It would be great to have a Windows OS that can be simply set to never talk to anyone on its own accord. I would pay real money for that, but just once. Microsoft no longer want to tolerate users who pay them $100 for an OS and then never give them anything for the next 10 years.

They don't want money.  They've got money.  They want data.  Your data.

It turns out you can have enough money, but you can never have enough data.  Who knew?

Pretty much this, data is now worth more than anything now days.  And they know they have most people by the throat and most people are not going to switch to Linux, so they don't really care if they piss off people.  What makes it worse is that the majority of people don't even care and just say "I have nothing to hide" and accept it.
Quite interesting take indeed. It looks to me that Windows has become a "free" shopping/advertisement platform. I wonder if that is one more nail in the coffin of desktop computing for the common man, given that mobile has been much more prevalent for this audience these days?

One can only wonder...
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline HoracioDos

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 335
  • Country: ar
  • Just an IT monkey with a DSO
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #190 on: October 16, 2017, 09:17:04 pm »
 
The following users thanked this post: Tom45

Online Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9382
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #191 on: October 17, 2017, 12:52:19 am »
1. For $20 I may buy one just to see if it actually works.

2. Not interested in untrustworthy cloud anything, but $84 a year? I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.
You're forgetting about the "Software as a Service" part. Everyone does it now. Why have people spend money once, when you could have them spending it forever?
 

Offline KE5FX

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: us
    • KE5FX.COM
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #192 on: October 17, 2017, 01:22:03 am »
I'm used to buying OEM Windows once and using it for 5 years or more.

Thank you for your report, User.  This bug has been scheduled for attention at the highest level of priority.  We are pleased to report that it will be fixed in the next release. -- Microsoft
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6442
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #193 on: October 18, 2017, 02:38:26 am »
Was going to watch some TV and about 10 minutes into it, there was that stupid update popup.   This time it offered a hide button, so I selected that and went back to watching.  Whole show disrupted now.  Settled back in and again about 10 minutes later, the popup shows up.   This time I tell it to go ahead and give up on using the PC.  Thanks again Satya Nadella for taking a PC that has ran fine for a few years and rendering it useless.   

Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup.  This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht!  It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number.   At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.   

Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router.   The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.     
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2156
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #194 on: October 18, 2017, 08:59:59 am »
i just found out yesterday, a lot of modern laptops have a rootkit in the UEFI bios that phones home and downloads a load of crap into your windows install!!
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15386
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #195 on: October 18, 2017, 10:10:09 am »
It’s a shit show isn’t it?

I actually installed freebsd on a spare desktop pc I have lying around yesterday. See if there is a decent spice variant in the ports collection ...
 

Offline joeqsmith

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6442
  • Country: us
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #196 on: October 18, 2017, 11:37:13 am »
See if there is a decent spice variant in the ports collection ...

Please post what you find for SPICE.  Maybe start a new thread for it.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15386
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #197 on: October 18, 2017, 12:00:10 pm »
Will do.
 

Offline stj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2156
  • Country: gb
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #198 on: October 18, 2017, 12:29:13 pm »
LTspice ??

i dont use it, but remember seeing it in repo's for years.
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4200
  • Country: ca
Re: Windows 10 Creators Update 1703
« Reply #199 on: October 18, 2017, 01:45:11 pm »
Several more minutes pass and up comes the popup.  This time it says that it can't get the patch. No sht!  It want's me to contact MS tech support with some number.   At that time, I removed every patch that had been installed in the last few months.   

Strange is my desktop has never popped up with anything after the changes to the router.   The laptop must have been contaminated with more updates as I had left it off that router for a few days while I was sorting it out.   

Looks a typical scam to me, i once in awhile see it on exactly tv watching web sites. May have nothing to do with MS. You really think MS support wants to talk to you ?
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf