Tobiscope design (with instructions from the CIA)

[TimFox]

The human body is not ohmic:  therefore, the measured "resistance" will be a function of all those variables--voltage or current, and frequency.
What you actually measure is the current as a function of voltage (which is non-linear) or vice-versa, and that depends on frequency since high frequencies do not penetrate the conductive body fully.
The last point is well known in MRI, although it only becomes important somewhere around 10 MHz and above.

[Kim Christensen]

The Tobiscope was only designed to measure the resistance. Why did you mention voltage, current or frequency?

Because ohmmeters work by passing a current through whatever they're testing and measuring the resultant voltage drop across it. Voltage/Current = Resistance.
Usually it's a small DC current, but an AC current could be used in special situations.

[Kim Christensen]

There is nothing magic about wireless telemetry. This is where the writer starts drawing erroneous conclusions from bad data. Perhaps the FM signal had some interference or phase noise. Or maybe just a small 1mV galvanic effect, amplifier offset, etc:

[Kim Christensen]

The high frequences were taken from the baseline around 1mV. In transistors-based amplifiers in the 1970s. What are the baseline noises? Is it in mV or microV?

Considering that a cassette tape head output is in the range of 250uV at full volume, I don't think there should have been any problem in the 70's detecting 1mV audio signals.
Plus, transistor radios in those days would have RF receive sensitivities down on the 1 microvolt range as well.

Can the so called "small 1mV galvanic effect" be frequency dependent? How can amplifier offset create them?

Because they used the term "continuous millivoltage signal" I mistakenly thought they meant DC signal/offset.

But unless the whole experiment is isolated in a faraday cage, it's anyone's guess where this mystery signal (That you yourself can't detect) came from in Valerie's experiments.

Why is there a >-50dBV or >-41dBV in the Vertical 10-30 decibels (power)?

Decibels by themselves are simply a ratio. If you say 10db it is meaningless unless you specify a reference or are using it as a gain/loss.
That's the reason for the V at the end of -50dbV. It means -50db relative to 1V or in other words:
0dbV = 1V
-50dbV = 3.162 mV

[Kim Christensen]

Don't know about Mu Rooms, but I worked daily inside a faraday cage for several years with no ill effects. (Didn't spend the entire 8 hours in there. But 5-6hrs a day was common)
Faraday blocks EM fields such as radio signals which is what we used it for. Might have had Mu shielding properties too, but I'm not sure about that.
Possibly being locked in a smaller room for long periods would have psychological effects and that's what Valerie was really seeing and not due to the lack of Earth's magnetic field etc...

[Kim Christensen]

Actually, with any magnetic "shield", the magnetic flux is actually channeled through the material. Mu metal is a brand name like Kleenex... It's mostly nickel with some other metals. Mild steel also works pretty well at "shielding" against static magnetic fields. Not a bad summary here.

Faraday shielding depends on the material, it's thickness, and the frequency you're trying to block. It comes down to "skin depth".

[Kim Christensen]

I don't know anything about ghosts. Only electronics.

If there is a voltage gradient on the skin, or between inserted probes, you should be able to measure that.
Most of the articles you are quoting talk about small AC signals below 2Khz. So you could filter out any RF signals with low pass filters so there'd be no need for a faraday type cage unless you were really close to a large radio tower or something. What you'd need is a magnetic shielded room, either Mu metal or just mild steel to keep out low frequency electromagnetic interference. You could confirm this by having your test setup in such a room, shutting the door with no one inside, and letting the equipment record any signals. (Maybe attach some short wires to the probe ends to simulate a body acting as an antenna) Once you determine your noise baseline, and are happy with it, you could put a person in there and measure once again.

[Kim Christensen]

What is wrong if you don't filter the RF signals?

Strong RF signals can swamp/overload the amplifier so that low frequencies can't be seen. RF could also make it look like there is a low frequency signal when there isn't. (Strong RF could get demodulated by the PN junctions inside the ICs) (R3 R4 C1 C2 C3 do filter out some RF)

I just need to acquire audio range (0 to 20,000 Hz) frequencies.

By limiting the bandwidth, you can improve the signal to noise ratio. So if you had modified that 40Hz lowpass to be a 25Khz lowpass filter it would have been better than just disabling it.
Also, frequencies that are outside your PC's spectrum analyzer capability could also appear as strange anomalies. Depends on the hardware and software on the PC.

I'm trying to acquire the original equipments used by Valerie but only found Bio-sentry telemetry Receiver at ebay. Perhaps pure transistor only amplifiers can detect something (or aspects) our ICs can't? is this possible?

ICs have transistors or FETs inside them anyway so I don't think there's many magic to be gained by using discrete transistor amplifiers. As long as the noise floor is same/lower, dynamic range same/better, the frequency response is same/higher, etc, then the IC circuit should be just as good.

[Kim Christensen]

If I put the circuit inside a Faraday Cage. Would it work without using RF circuit filter (for example entirely removing the Butterworth low pass filter)?

The problem is, that the wider the bandwidth, the more difficult it is to pick the signal out of the noise. To get the best sensitivity you should limit the bandwidth to be slightly wider than the frequencies of interest. All amplifiers and circuits generate some noise.

Also she said "as strong as the millivoltage of a resting muscle". But the ABC of EMG article said there should be no voltage in a resting muscle. What you make of all this?

I really have no idea. 

What is really the baseline voltage of a resting muscle? Not even in microVolt?

"ABC of EMG" paper seems to say 10-15uV baseline which would be when the person is completely at rest (including their muscles).

[Kim Christensen]

What Faraday Cage for circuits do you know?

It's simply a metal box or mesh containing the circuit.

But I don't know what would happen if you drill a hole.

Depends on the size of the hole. The hole in the cage needs to be much smaller than the shortest wavelength you want to block.

Does circuit Faraday Cages have holes for wires?

They can. You'd have to put RFI filters at the entry point, otherwise the cage is useless.

If the current is floating in the air. How are you supposed to measure them.

You'd use an antenna or coil to pick the signal "out of the air"...

[Kim Christensen]

You mean in your last message about coils is only coils that measures magnetic field can measure negative charges just moving in the air with its own lines of force or conduits?   Or did you mean coils to pick up the EM field? But the negative charges moving is not the EM fields.

I meant that the coil would pickup any varying magnetic field. You seemed to think before that auras and monopoles would influence magnetic and electric fields.

Also about your "Strong RF signals can swamp/overload the amplifier so that low frequencies can't be seen."
Did you mean AM/FM radio stations in the air, or cellphones that are being used in the vicinity? Or even Wifi signal can disturb the amplifier?  Is there just no corner in the house that the amplifier won't be exposed to the "strong RF signals"? Or is this only temporary depending on locations?   Also In what aspect can they swamp/overload the amplifier? It can clip it you mean? Thanks.

Yup:  AM/FM radio stations, cellphones, wifi, lightning, plus any source of an electric spark such as motors, light switches, vehicle ignition systems, etc... Anything like that could overwhelm a system designed to detect signals in the microvolt range if it's inputs were not properly shielded and filtered.

Unfiltered signals, even if they don't saturate the amplifier, but are higher than the sample rate of your computer's ADC (Sound card?) will alias and appear as ghost signals at a lower frequency. See page 5 of this document.

[Kim Christensen]

What is the most sensitive conventional electronics with coils (that doesn't use superconductors) that can pickup the weakest magnetic field and what is range of the magnetic field or voltage/current possible? Is there a readily available system? I don't want to build it using breadboards because breadboards introduce other noises.

Using a coil was just one example. You'd probably buy a fluxgate magnetometer or something if you wanted to measure magnetic fields.

You mention in the microvolt range. No. It's just between 0.33mV and 0.66 mV or less than 1 millivolt but more than 0.33 millivolt. Not microvolt. How would that change your statements?

Not really: 0.33mV is 330uV. Even at this higher level, you could still get EM interference in this signal range. I have no idea of how electrically noisy your area is.

Let's say I can detect Valerie high frequency EMG. Do I get a Nobel Prize?  Or not since Valerie is the original discoverer?  What you think? But she is dead already. I need the 1 million rewards money to create a lab (separate from the house) and buy superconductors to study all these in more details.

Not necessarily. The scientific community would have to replicate your results first (Pass peer review), and then it has to meet their criteria:
"Contributions that have conferred the greatest benefit to humankind in the areas of Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, Literature, Economics and Peace."

So you see some waveforms. What do they mean? You'd have to prove that your mystics can see these auras and that they correspond to the waveforms you observe. It's a pretty high bar.

[Kim Christensen]

How do you view the microvolt or millivolt at Audacity. What does the dB in the noise correspond to in millivolts?

Almost impossible to determine with the data provided. This device is made for recording music. I doubt it's calibrated in any way. But...
You could get a signal generator and feed a sinewave of known level into the ADC and check what Audacity displays. Verify the level with an AC millivoltmeter in parallel as well. (In case of loading)
You could also verify what happens when you increase the signal frequency beyond the sample rate.
ie: Gather your own calibration data for science.

[bd139]

I said I’d never post on here again but quite frankly this thread nearly gave me bowel cancer.

[SiliconWizard]

 bonyz: nice troll!

[Canis Dirus Leidy]

By the way. This thread remind me about classic prank from the times of "Golden Age of EEG": covertly set the bandwidth to 8-13Hz, so that the input noises looked like an real EEG signal. It was used in two versions: 1) measuring "electric brain activity" of the floor rag (usually applied to overly enthusiastic residents and other newbies); 2) same thing but with skull instead (and this was reserved for scientific journalists).

[EE54]

Do you just throw random junk at the wall and see what will stick?
Like every time someone question what are you on about, you bring up something else? Dipole, Medians, Dark Matter...
Are you just going with the turboencabulator method of jargon spamming in hopes of us taking this seriously?

[Kim Christensen]

Are you just going with the turboencabulator method of jargon spamming in hopes of us taking this seriously?

I did link a TE video in this post. Maybe he caught on? 

[Kim Christensen]

Question. If the signal comes out loud and clear using a simulator and RFI doesn't swamp it.  It means with real signal, the signal would also come loud and clear?

Under the same conditions, yes it would.

Please give graphic examples how exactly RFI can swamp the lower signals.. because I couldn't even detect the interferences, Also in the circuit. The butterworth filter is after the amplifier. It means even if the amplifier is swamped, the low amplitude signal is still there and that's why it can pass through the butterworth filter?

If the out of band RFI drives the amplifier into clipping, or into non linearity, then it will effect the low amplitude signal so that it's distorted/attenuated before it reaches the butterworth filter. Thus the low amplitude signal comes out of the butterworth filter also distorted/attenuated. (I'll draw a diagram if this doesn't make sense to you)

[Cyberdragon]

bonyz: nice troll!

What do you mean troll. I'm not trolling and just sharing to make you understand better because building a scanner to image "energy field" is even better and as Silicon Wizard. You may be able to do it. In the following is how a clairvoyant Barbara Ann Brennan, a NASA scientist who wrote the book "Hands of Lights" described how the clairvoyant seeing works (see attached images if the following doesn't load up):

Look, I have a very open mind, more than probably 90%-99% of the people here, I believe in some very "oogie-boogie" stuff (and NO, I don't care what anyone here thinks). But what I DON'T do is go galavanting personal beliefs as hard science on a technical forum, and even I think this is some wacky far fetched bullshit. When you come up with a bunch of nonsense explanations for unexplained stuff it just makes it worse, you muddy the line between what just needs research to figure out and what's "fringe science". You claim to come here looking to build an instrument, then start waffling on about third eyes an aliens which has NOTHING to do with your original question/research. So now, even if you wanted to research whatever it was as a science you've now lumped it squarely into the "woo-woo" bin and now no real scientists will ever touch it even if it is something that can be studied as a science.

Do you just throw random junk at the wall and see what will stick?
Like every time someone question what are you on about, you bring up something else? Dipole, Medians, Dark Matter...
Are you just going with the turboencabulator method of jargon spamming in hopes of us taking this seriously?

Normally I wouldn't care, but some stuff gets unfairely lumped into the "woo-woo" bin, and while I personally don't think this is one of them, this kind of crap of going full "turboencabulor" on stuff is what does it. An example of something I personally think is unfairely "fringe science" and falls squarely in the known laws of physics is "earthquake lights" (did a college group paper on those) and the "Brown Mountain lights". I don't think there's anything mystical or "oogie-boogie" about it, just electrical discharges. But people like YOU keep on going "ooo aliens!" and whatnot which makes everyone else go "eh, it's probably just car headlights" (like the Paulding light is) without verifying it scientifically either. And what's funny is Norway has the Hessdalen lights, which I think are the same thing, and they have a whole research station set up! We have people throwing dynamite at rocks hoping to make them spark. (which is not what any of the papers on this stuff recommend doing, you need magnetohydrodynamic generators stationed at intervals then measure the feedback from the pulses to determine whether the ground has piezoelectric properties, and yet I see no equiment trucks out there) I'd rather people properly invest in learning about the natural world instead of verifying yet again that solar panels should not be flat and have stuff driven or sat on them.

I don't care what you believe, I have some wacky beliefs too, but which is it OP? Did you come here for science or just to tout your personal "woo-woo" beliefs on a technical forum where they have no place?! (something tells me that it can be scientifically proven to be the latter).

EDIT: No, I'm not a flerfer or conspiracy nut, I just like "oogie-boogie" stuff.

[AVGresponding]

I just like "oogie-boogie" stuff.

Please define "oogie-boogie"   

[Cyberdragon]

I just like "oogie-boogie" stuff.

Please define "oogie-boogie"   

For me, the usual "woo-woo", aliens/ghosts/cryptids etc. I do believe in weird stuff, and I want to, but I don't think anyone (this means OP) should go around harassing people with their personal beliefs (neither should anyone be harrassed for them as long as they don't go around trolling with a tinfoil hat, but OP has crossed that line). That's as far as I will elaborate, no debates please as it will end up going into religion/polotics and people might get banned or something.

[Kim Christensen]

Yes. Please draw any diagram because I can't find any illustration elsewhere of your ideas. Thanks.

Ok, I'll preface this by saying that my illustration is greatly oversimplified. But it should give you an idea of what I mean.
You have two frequency sinewaves. Red and green. When summed together (This is what would be coming from your probes) you'd get the black line.
You are only interested in the low level green sinewave but it's mixed in with the higher level Red sinewave. Combined, they drive the amplifier into clipping (Blue horizontal lines indicate the clipping level).
So when you pass this clipped black signal through a filter to get rid of the Red frequency component, you'll get the mangled green waveform below. It'll be uglier than that due to harmonics, etc but you get the general idea.
ie: So if EMI drives the first amplifier into clipping, it'll effect lower level signals that wouldn't drive the amplifier into clipping on their own.

[Bud]

. I know a pleasant woman and man who were raped by alligator like beings.

Did those charming people tell you what a reptiloid's genitalia look like? Shape/size, shaft/balls, anything unusual? Did the rapist alligators experience orgasm? Did the woman get pregnant with little alligators?

[Cyberdragon]

. I know a pleasant woman and man who were raped by alligator like beings.

Did those charming people tell you what a reptiloid's genitalia look like? Shape/size, shaft/balls, anything unusual? Did the rapist alligators experience orgasm? Did the woman get pregnant with little alligators?

[Insert scene from The Shape of Water where she tells her coworker she had sex with a seamonster]

OP sort of got the hint, but still did it again. I'm out!