This is why we should all leave the EU

[rolycat]

A habit shared by both sides of this argument.  The (let's call it) liberals are oppressors because we want to limit your options in portable hurricane generators.  Likewise, the (for the sake of labels) conservatives are willing to consume more than their fair share of finite resources so they can say they have the right to do so.

The 'fair share' thing is a subjective argument that the oppressors use to justify their actions.  It's well established that oppressors usually comes with a 'justifications'. This is how the 17th century La Fontaine described it (translated to English):

The reason of those best able to have their way is always the best:
We now show how this is true.

[remainder of fable deleted]

Well established by Osama Bin Laden, for example.
This is Aesop's fable The Wolf and the Lamb, which Bin Laden used to justify the 9/11 attacks.

[Galenbo]

For the oppressors, liberty is a dirty word.

Its fascinating how the people that mind their own business are called 'extremists' and the ones that calls for oppression are called 'enlighten'. That's the real Newspeak.

+1

[Galenbo]

What's your function in life? I can't imagine ist's something useful, maximum something contemplative.
Payed by the state, more than you could get elsewhere, that's clear too.

Nope. I am a electrical/firmware engineer who makes industrial products, working for a private company.

Very hard to believe, but I will keep on trying. Maybe someday I will succeed.

[SeanB]

Baen free library ( yes it really is free for certain works) and download Freehold and read it. Very good to give a view of both sides.

[TerraHertz]

Sorry if this was posted before. I didn't read this thread due to a. Too busy, & b. reading more safety/green/AGW fascist rubbish makes me angry.

Anyway...

EU to ban high-energy hair dryers, smartphones and kettles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11061538/EU-to-ban-high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Talking about banning 'high power' smartphones? Something's not smart there.

I wonder if there are exemptions in the regulations for cases where someone is generating all their electricity via solar? In which case by what right does the State have any say at all, in how much of their own electricity people use and for what purpose?
Somehow I doubt it.

Also 'lower power hair dryers' is moronic too. As people will just use the lower power dryer for longer. Same eventual total Watt-hours to dry the hair.

[gildasd]

EU to ban high-energy hair dryers, smartphones and kettles
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11061538/EU-to-ban-high-energy-hair-dryers-smartphones-and-kettles.html

Talking about banning 'high power' smartphones? Something's not smart there.

You idiot.

- It's the Torygraph, a well known source of balanced and reliable information about the EU (hint: sarcasm)
- The article says "smartphones" in the headline but not in the body of the article, and you fell for it
- The study they linked to is just that, a study to see if it is worth doing these things and not an actual plan to do them
- Much of it is about requiring reasonably efficient power supplies, like we already do with PF correction etc.
- As the study points out, phone chargers use about 20 PJ of energy per year
- You didn't read the comments explaining the limit on vacuum cleaner power, which also explain why you don't really need a 2300W hairdryer when most of the world copes with 900W just fine

I can't believe people who otherwise appear to be of at least average intelligence keep falling for this kind of thing. BTW, those Nigerian prince emails are a scam too. 

In any case, even if was 100% factual, anything that promotes less energy waste THUS reducing our arse licking position to Russia and Gulf States, is very good indeed.

Is it more ecological? Debatable (if you dislike the rules of thermodynamics and evidence based science) but secondary.

[Rufus]

I can't believe people who otherwise appear to be of at least average intelligence keep falling for this kind of thing.

Says the man who buys 100% green energy - lol.

[TerraHertz]

You idiot.

- It's the Torygraph, a well known source of balanced and reliable information about the EU (hint: sarcasm)

I'm well aware of that source's characteristics. However flatly rejecting information without examination, based purely on source unreliability is never wise. That's why one should check references. Like THIS ONE http://www.ecodesign-wp3.eu/sites/default/files/Ecodesign%20WP3_Draft_Task_3_report_11072014.pdf given in the article.  Well how about that - they didn't just make it all up.

- The article says "smartphones" in the headline but not in the body of the article, and you fell for it.

Actually it does mention phones in the article body. Also mentioned 278 times in the pdf.
Also, define 'fell for it'. If by that you mean ridiculing the phrase 'high power smartphones' as absurd, then yep, totally fell for it.

- The study they linked to is just that, a study to see if it is worth doing these things and not an actual plan to do them

Like tungsten light bulbs, I suppose? Do you care to place a bet on where this goes in a year or two?

- Much of it is about requiring reasonably efficient power supplies, like we already do with PF correction etc.

And the rest of it isn't. Pfft.

- As the study points out, phone chargers use about 20 PJ of energy per year

SFW. Oh and so you did already read the study mentioned, but still claim the telegraph article is just blowing smoke? Also, you missed all the mention of phones?

- You didn't read the comments explaining the limit on vacuum cleaner power, which also explain why you don't really need a 2300W hairdryer when most of the world copes with 900W just fine

Missing the point. The world copes just fine without such nitpicking intrusive egomaniacal regulation. Especially when the whole premise of such restrictions is based on the false (actually fraudulent) premise of AGW.

I can't believe people who otherwise appear to be of at least average intelligence keep falling for this kind of thing. BTW, those Nigerian prince emails are a scam too. 

Your form of address, attitude and 'reasoning' are offensive and trollish.

[rolycat]

The world copes just fine without such nitpicking intrusive egomaniacal regulation. Especially when the whole premise of such restrictions is based on the false (actually fraudulent) premise of AGW.

Wow, you were sounding quite rational until this point.

Rather than making ludicrous and unsubstantiated claims, could you point to a single scientific body with national or international standing which holds the phenomenon of anthropogenic global warming to be either false or fraudulent?

In case it needs to be spelt out, this excludes denialist propaganda factories such as the National Center for Public Policy Research.

[zapta]

You idiot.

-1

(not even bothering to read your arguments).

[lewis]

Missing the point. The world copes just fine without such nitpicking intrusive egomaniacal regulation. Especially when the whole premise of such restrictions is based on the false (actually fraudulent) premise of AGW.

+10^10^100

 

[SirNick]

Missing the point. The world copes just fine without such nitpicking intrusive egomaniacal regulation.

In the sense that life goes on, yes.  However -- once again -- half the world isn't even capable of powering these devices, and yet there's no shortage of dry hair and clean carpets.  For the 200V+ countries, there is such a huge amount of power on tap, you don't notice when the demands of your appliances are disproportionately large.  That ignorance is at least forgivable for the general populace, but you lot should know better.  SOMETHING IS WRONG when you're using a hair dryer with an equivalent amount of power to a small kitchen stove.  Not only is it gross overkill, but it has potential for real damage when something goes wrong -- not unlike the first time your twitch the throttle on a 1000CC motorcycle and realize you're one sneeze away from sending the bike to the nearest ocean, without its rider still attached.  This stuff has no business being on the market in the first place.

Regarding phone chargers, I'm inclined to agree that efficiency is probably not a big concern.  Consumers want them so small that not a lot of power can go to waste without other more immediate consequences, so that might be flogging a dead horse.  Safety regulation is another matter, and long overdue -- if not so easily enforceable.

[rolycat]

Missing the point. The world copes just fine without such nitpicking intrusive egomaniacal regulation. Especially when the whole premise of such restrictions is based on the false (actually fraudulent) premise of AGW.

+10^10^100

 

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

[lewis]

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

"SHRIEK! How can anyone agree with such abhorrent views! Death to anyone who has an opinion of their own! SHRIEK!"

[SirNick]

-1

+10^10^100

What is it with people and adding and subtracting points?  Are you guys saving up for a stuffed animal or pencil box or something? 

[zapta]

... The whole article is a troll.

This view point is expected. Socialists have hard time grasping the concept of personal liberty. For them it's just a nuisance.

[Rufus]

In the sense that life goes on, yes.  However -- once again -- half the world isn't even capable of powering these devices, and yet there's no shortage of dry hair and clean carpets.

No shortage of hot water either but I'm rather pleased I don't have to stand around waiting twice as long to make it.

For the 200V+ countries, there is such a huge amount of power on tap, you don't notice when the demands of your appliances are disproportionately large.  That ignorance is at least forgivable for the general populace, but you lot should know better.  SOMETHING IS WRONG when you're using a hair dryer with an equivalent amount of power to a small kitchen stove.

I sometimes dry my hair with a 3kW fan heater - nothing goes wrong. There is nothing to go wrong with a high powered hair dryer anymore than there is to go wrong using two half powered ones. The more power the faster it gets the job done.

If people want to spend their money on 2kW hair dryers or 1000cc motorbikes and the fuel for them then regardless of me agreeing with their choice I defend their right to choose.

BTW I happen to have a 1000cc motorbike and it is f**king awesome.....

The miserablist pricks of the world who don't have 1000cc motorbikes feel better about it when no one else is allowed to have one.

[rolycat]

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

"SHRIEK! How can anyone agree with such abhorrent views! Death to anyone who has an opinion of their own! SHRIEK!"

So quoting a bit of Weird Al's humorous verse to highlight your lack of originality is shrieking death threats in ALL CAPS now?

You really need to lighten up, chum 

[lewis]

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

"SHRIEK! How can anyone agree with such abhorrent views! Death to anyone who has an opinion of their own! SHRIEK!"

So quoting a bit of Weird Al's humorous verse to highlight your lack of originality is shrieking death threats in ALL CAPS now?

You really need to lighten up, chum 

I was paraphrasing you, dude!

[jlmoon]

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

"SHRIEK! How can anyone agree with such abhorrent views! Death to anyone who has an opinion of their own! SHRIEK!"

So quoting a bit of Weird Al's humorous verse to highlight your lack of originality is shrieking death threats in ALL CAPS now?

You really need to lighten up, chum 

Where might be the professionalism in all this?  Just a bystander making some observations!

[SirNick]

No shortage of hot water either but I'm rather pleased I don't have to stand around waiting twice as long to make it.

When did we start talking about heating water?  Is this to do with kettles?  I don't have an opinion there.  At a certain point, you will ruin the container before you heat your substance any faster, but aside from that, I don't argue that (for the most part) energy in is energy used regardless.  (See?  Not just trying to strip freedoms away.)

I sometimes dry my hair with a 3kW fan heater - nothing goes wrong. There is nothing to go wrong with a high powered hair dryer anymore than there is to go wrong using two half powered ones. The more power the faster it gets the job done.

Fallacy.  I have used ~1000-1200W hair dryers that I had to hold farther away because it generated too much heat to be useful in close proximity.  My favorite was a 600W beasty with a powerful fan.  The air was "warmish-hot", which was plenty, and it dried my (thick and long) hair without damaging it.  It was also small enough to tuck into the corner of a suitcase.  Since then, I just "decided" not to grow as much hair anymore, and haven't really needed a dryer in years.

The miserablist pricks of the world who don't have 1000cc motorbikes feel better about it when no one else is allowed to have one.

Your paranoia is showing, and you're projecting.  I truly don't care what bike you have.  If you want 1000CCs, well, that's still more fuel-efficient than a 6L SUV, so good onya.  I rode a friend's 800CC once and thought, "if I owned this thing, I would kill myself" and went back to my lower-powered bike, which is still hot enough to pucker my tailpipe when I yank the throttle too fast.  That is the beginning and end of my opinion on high-powered bikes.

[zapta]

You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

This JPEG is not useless. I am sure she would appreciate having it on the internet.  ;-)

[Galenbo]

Your form of address, attitude and 'reasoning' are offensive and trollish.

I'm normally a nice guy, ...

Must be when you are between other socialists, practicing groupthinking.

[rolycat]

"And posting 'Me too!' like some braindead AOLer
I should do the world a favor and cap you like Ol' Yeller
You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

"SHRIEK! How can anyone agree with such abhorrent views! Death to anyone who has an opinion of their own! SHRIEK!"

So quoting a bit of Weird Al's humorous verse to highlight your lack of originality is shrieking death threats in ALL CAPS now?

You really need to lighten up, chum 

Where might be the professionalism in all this?  Just a bystander making some observations!

With a title like "This is why we should all leave the EU", you surely didn't expect a purely rational fact-based engineering discussion?

The thread seems to have become something of a free-for-all platform for political posturing, and the fact that it was begun by a moderator may explain why it hasn't been shut down yet.

[rolycat]

You're just about as useless as JPEGs to Helen Keller..."

This JPEG is not useless. I am sure she would appreciate having it on the internet.  ;-)

[large photo of Helen Keller removed]

Nice try, but I'm afraid she died before either JPEGs or the internet were invented.