Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[arcitech]

Can someone confirm my suspicion (based on manuals) that the SDS1000X-E series does _not_ allow users to dim the overall LCD brightness?

Looks to me like SDS2000X+ or HD would deliver the ability to dial back the brightness, but not the SDS1000X-E... idk whether I'll ever hear back from yday morning's emails to info@ & sales-usa@ but prime day prices are near the end...

(IMO LCDs sans dimming should be outlawed.)

[bdunham7]

Can someone confirm my suspicion (based on manuals) that the SDS1000X-E series does _not_ allow users to dim the overall LCD brightness?

If by overall brightness you mean the backlight, then AFAIK no.  There are other adjustments that seem sufficient and I've never, ever felt the need to try and reduce the brightness on this scope.  The background is mostly black and there is an intensity control for the traces.

[Martin72]

Looks to me like SDS2000X+ or HD would deliver the ability to dial back the brightness

Correct, you can dim the backlight on them.

[arcitech]

If by overall brightness you mean the backlight, then AFAIK no.  There are other adjustments that seem sufficient and I've never, ever felt the need to try and reduce the brightness on this scope.  The background is mostly black and there is an intensity control for the traces.

Useful info for most, but in this case there's backlight bleed + contrast edge bleed that are filtered out by most brains, but astigmatism thwarts that filter, sometimes on its own, but especially when amplified by other visual sensitivities. "Ever endure a video shot by someone oblivious to how greasy their camera lens is? Like that."

(or so I'm told...)

[tautech]

Can someone confirm my suspicion (based on manuals) that the SDS1000X-E series does _not_ allow users to dim the overall LCD brightness?

Looks to me like SDS2000X+ or HD would deliver the ability to dial back the brightness, but not the SDS1000X-E... idk whether I'll ever hear back from yday morning's emails to info@ & sales-usa@ but prime day prices are near the end...

(IMO LCDs sans dimming should be outlawed.)

If by overall brightness you mean the backlight, then AFAIK no.  There are other adjustments that seem sufficient and I've never, ever felt the need to try and reduce the brightness on this scope.  The background is mostly black and there is an intensity control for the traces.

Useful info for most, but in this case there's backlight bleed + contrast edge bleed that are filtered out by most brains, but astigmatism thwarts that filter, sometimes on its own, but especially when amplified by other visual sensitivities. "Ever endure a video shot by someone oblivious to how greasy their camera lens is? Like that."

(or so I'm told...)

OK so you have a LCD edge bleed problem do you ? In some early models we had the odd problem with this however to know if yours really has a problem we need pics from normal viewing angles.

An assortment of Display adjustments for the 4ch X-E follow, some of which show how important it is to have the Graticule brightness a little higher than normal for them to show up well in screenshot.

[arcitech]

OK so you have a LCD edge bleed problem do you ?

Nope, no SDS to have one on, but thanks regardless. Was just trying to sort out whether the SDS1000X-E series allowed for overall (backlight) dimming like the bigger siblings have. The bleed I was citing was just a general LCD backlight leakage through the pixels themselves (pixel closed but backlight still leaking past, worse on some panel technologies than other shallower ones, obviously OLEDs avoid this entirely and dimmable zones on newer/larger LCDs lessen it). That, and general contrast, screen or no.

Neither is typically an issue for most people just tends to be troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences.

[tautech]

Was just trying to sort out whether the SDS1000X-E series allowed for overall (backlight) dimming like the bigger siblings have.

No they don't as seen in the Display setting menu above however study of the first 2 screenshots give some idea of the display changes you can make with just trace and graticule brightness and transparency with the last screenshot being close to my preferred settings.
With the more advanced and touch display siblings, the brightness control (Multifunction encoder or mouse hover over the numerical brightness box) affects all display settings in some way and is probably the better feature for overall display control although you certainly can address each parameter one by one.

Please share more about 'troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences' for the designers to consider for existing and future products. 

[arcitech]

Please share more about 'troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences' for the designers to consider for existing and future products. 

Discussing sensory phenomenology (ineffable by definition) seems a bit futile and truly I've gotta wonder if you're having a laugh.

The only consideration I'd suggest designers take into consideration is a dimmable backlight, if that somehow wasn't clear. That helps accommodate those with astigmatism (as mentioned before) as well as other sensory differences experienced by those with albinism, macular degeneration, retinal aberrations or thinning etc. I can't speak directly to all those conditions. I'll leave the numerous neurological issues that can impact vision unlisted.

Aside from that backlight request, basic consideration of the common (two?) variants of color blindness would probably be good practice. It doesn't help me in particular but I'm not just on a quest to self-serve.

There's been a years-long push on the web dev front called a11y and, while it doesn't directly translate to all digital canvasses, it should help initiate those for whom accessibility isn't fully understood.

If product designers aren't aware of core accessibility tenets in the HMI domain, then I have to wonder whether they're product designers at all. Or, maybe I just spent too much time in northern California, where delicate flowers for the landscape, and helping them thrive is atop seemingly every technical company's list.

Whether you're having a laugh or not, thanks again for confirming the other helpful initial responses to my question, even if it did take a weird detour through LCD edge bleed land.

[tv84]

Discussing sensory phenomenology (ineffable by definition) seems a bit futile and truly I've gotta wonder if you're having a laugh.

No question to laugh about. Unfortunately we all will suffer from it albeit in different levels...

[tautech]

Please share more about 'troublesome for those with certain eyeball and/or neurological differences' for the designers to consider for existing and future products. 

Discussing sensory phenomenology (ineffable by definition) seems a bit futile and truly I've gotta wonder if you're having a laugh.

Certainly not, do you expect the EE's that design this stuff to be optical experts, I don't and hence I asked for some guidance as I well know they can read English. 

Aside from that backlight request, basic consideration of the common (two?) variants of color blindness would probably be good practice. It doesn't help me in particular but I'm not just on a quest to self-serve.

The higher range siblings do account for a vast array of display combinations to suit most any want or fashion in the Display menu as these pics I posted long ago in another thread demonstrate:





SDS2000X Plus and all higher spec models have these ^ user selectable trace colors.

[arcitech]

Certainly not, do you expect the EE's that design this stuff to be optical experts, I don't and hence I asked for some guidance as I well know they can read English. 

If these product designs involve only EEs and nobody serving as an HMI / UX expert, that explains a lot. (...which I say as an owner of zero SDS, but with an SDL & SPD). I think the Siglent scopes, based on what I've seen at least, have a bit more attention to UX than the boxes in my lab though.

IMO if an EE's designs are invisibly shuffling electrons, then EE domain knowledge is all they need to be successful. If an EE designs a box containing their boards/circuits, and that box has buttons and a screen, then that EE either needs to be a polymath, or needs to be working closely with someone who has relevant HMI/UX domain expertise.

I don't know how closely you work with Siglent, but I truly hope it's not just a group of EEs and the random bean counter.

[Sully9]

Hi Folks,

I've got an SDS1104X-E, stock OS 8.1 and FW 6.1.25R2 (if I remember correctly) that won't go past boot screen.

I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success.  Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair.

Is it reasonable/safe for me to try
1) prepping a USB drive with an OS update
2) Can I feed the web server an ADS file

Nothing particularly crazy done to it.  About a year ago, I added  ntpd  using a method similar to what wpwrak described here
   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1812089/#msg1812089
Yesterday I was contemplating a change that I ultimately decided to leave well enough alone.  I can't rule out having started into it and set /usr/bin/siglent as rw before I decided to not bother.  So, there's a chance it never got switched back to ro.  Would have said it went through one reboot since then, but I left it running overnight and used it most of today before I rebooted and got here.


Here's more excruciating details in case any of it's useful:
- I get Siglent logo on screen and keys lit up (Run/Stop is orange, so R+G LEDs) for about 8 seconds, then they all turn off for half a second and all come back on.  (With a proper bootup, after blanking, I'm used to seeing the channel buttons light up in sequence).  I've let it sit for a few hours, no change.

+ Scope gets IP from DHCP server
+ Scope responds to ICMP pings
- SCPI and SOCKET ports 5024 and 5025 refuse connections
+ Web server is working, but
   - SCPI commands fail ("*IDN?" gets a "Device can not  be connected" response)
   - On Information section, "Instrument Model", "Software Version" and "Serial Number" are all empty
   - Instrument Control section just shows that spiffy Siglent logo
      + I can expand the controls section and the "Version Update" button appears to work
      + "Screen Save" and "Bin_to_CSV_Tool" buttons are functional, but not sure how much behind the web server are actually active.
      - "Waveform Save" obviously does NOT work.
+ if I put a USB drive in the front or back USB ports, once the logo is displaying, the drive does show activity as though it's being enumerated, and maybe files system is being checked.
- I have a thumb drive with a "siglent_device_startup.sh" to launch telnetd, but this appears to do nothing.

Thanks   

[tautech]

Hi Folks,

I've got an SDS1104X-E, stock OS 8.1 and FW 6.1.25R2 (if I remember correctly) that won't go past boot screen.

I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success.  Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair.

Is it reasonable/safe for me to try
1) prepping a USB drive with an OS update
2) Can I feed the web server an ADS file

Nothing particularly crazy done to it.  About a year ago, I added  ntpd  using a method similar to what wpwrak described here
   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg1812089/#msg1812089
Yesterday I was contemplating a change that I ultimately decided to leave well enough alone.  I can't rule out having started into it and set /usr/bin/siglent as rw before I decided to not bother.  So, there's a chance it never got switched back to ro.  Would have said it went through one reboot since then, but I left it running overnight and used it most of today before I rebooted and got here.


Here's more excruciating details in case any of it's useful:
- I get Siglent logo on screen and keys lit up (Run/Stop is orange, so R+G LEDs) for about 8 seconds, then they all turn off for half a second and all come back on.  (With a proper bootup, after blanking, I'm used to seeing the channel buttons light up in sequence).  I've let it sit for a few hours, no change.

+ Scope gets IP from DHCP server
+ Scope responds to ICMP pings
- SCPI and SOCKET ports 5024 and 5025 refuse connections
+ Web server is working, but
   - SCPI commands fail ("*IDN?" gets a "Device can not  be connected" response)
   - On Information section, "Instrument Model", "Software Version" and "Serial Number" are all empty
   - Instrument Control section just shows that spiffy Siglent logo
      + I can expand the controls section and the "Version Update" button appears to work
      + "Screen Save" and "Bin_to_CSV_Tool" buttons are functional, but not sure how much behind the web server are actually active.
      - "Waveform Save" obviously does NOT work.
+ if I put a USB drive in the front or back USB ports, once the logo is displaying, the drive does show activity as though it's being enumerated, and maybe files system is being checked.
- I have a thumb drive with a "siglent_device_startup.sh" to launch telnetd, but this appears to do nothing.

Thanks

Welcome to the forum and check your messages with our contact details so to fix this scope for you.
Don't try/use any other method than using the tools Siglent provide to us.

[Calambres]

...I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success.  Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair...

Never heard about that MATH button tapping. What's it for?... Any other secret key combinations to be aware of?

[tautech]

...I've made several attempts at the powerup while tapping the MATH button "2 - 3 times a second" - no success.  Probably no surprise I'm REALLY hoping there's a few other tricks I can try before sending off for warranty repair...

Never heard about that MATH button tapping. What's it for?...

See here:
https://siglentna.com/operating-tip/oscilloscope-hardware-reset/

Any other secret key combinations to be aware of?

Lots but sorry can't share.

Even EDUMODE shouldn't be shared on a public forum. 

[Calambres]

Thanks a lot anyway! 

[Sully9]

Welcome to the forum and check your messages with our contact details so to fix this scope for you.
Don't try/use any other method than using the tools Siglent provide to us.

Thanks tautech, that did the trick and I'm back in business.  Thanks for the assistance! 

[Sully9]

Thanks tautech, that did the trick and I'm back in business.  Thanks for the assistance! 

I've got one abstract follow-up:  the web interface now shows
   LXI Extended Functions      null
   LXI Version                        1.5 LXI Core 2017

I'm going from memory, but pretty sure before the scope was out-to-lunch, the "LXI Extended Functions" had non-null info and "LXI Version" was something "1.5.x Core 2019".  Curious why those are now different.  Is this not contained in the OS/FW?  A setting somewhere I'm overlooking.

Background:  With the unbricked scope, I'm finishing some data collection where I want no doubts of consistency.  I've got some scripted SCPI for automation, and I rely on some saved setups.  Might be silly, but not interested in chasing differences in support functionality etc. between FW versions, so following recovery I "restored" OS to 8.1 and FW to 6.1.35R2 (I mispoke citing 6.1.25R2 as the FW ver in my earlier post).

When I step up my SCPI / LXI game, which will include a upgrade to V2 OS and current FW, how do I ensure there's nothing missing here?

Cheers!

[tautech]

Thanks tautech, that did the trick and I'm back in business.  Thanks for the assistance! 

I've got one abstract follow-up:  the web interface now shows
   LXI Extended Functions      null
   LXI Version                        1.5 LXI Core 2017

I'm going from memory, but pretty sure before the scope was out-to-lunch, the "LXI Extended Functions" had non-null info and "LXI Version" was something "1.5.x Core 2019".  Curious why those are now different.  Is this not contained in the OS/FW?  A setting somewhere I'm overlooking.

Background:  With the unbricked scope, I'm finishing some data collection where I want no doubts of consistency.  I've got some scripted SCPI for automation, and I rely on some saved setups.  Might be silly, but not interested in chasing differences in support functionality etc. between FW versions, so following recovery I "restored" OS to 8.1 and FW to 6.1.35R2 (I mispoke citing 6.1.25R2 as the FW ver in my earlier post).

When I step up my SCPI / LXI game, which will include a upgrade to V2 OS and current FW, how do I ensure there's nothing missing here?

Cheers!

Yep, same as mine running latest OS and FW, see PC screenshot below.

Setups you should be able to Recall then Save again but to External for peace if mind and not loose them.
Likewise with personalized Default settings, Default and then Save as a Setup to External.

In reverse you can Recall Setups from External and then Save them to Internal.

[arcitech]

[...]
Even EDUMODE shouldn't be shared on a public forum. 

That's interesting. Is there an NDA that applies to "EDUMODE" or, barring that, any way those w/ access to the feature(s) to be aware of this prohibition?

[tautech]

[...]
Even EDUMODE shouldn't be shared on a public forum. 

That's interesting. Is there an NDA that applies to "EDUMODE" or, barring that, any way those w/ access to the feature(s) to be aware of this prohibition?

No, but students read the blog so we don't really need them knowing how to use or cancel such commands to shag around with their schools setups.
These 4ch X-E's have a lot of functionality so when in a classroom setup not all of it needs be accessible so needs be locked out.

[Sully9]

Hi there
Can anyone explain the meaning of the beep when starting the SDS 1104X-E?
My device sometimes beeps twice at startup? (Firmware version: V6.1.35R2)

It's like a POST test but if you don't like it in Utilities you can turn the sound OFF. Use Default and it will be back unless you make your personal Default settings and save then using the Set to Default feature in the Save/Recall menu.

On the 6.1.35R2 FW, this POST beep seems independent of sound settings (which is fine IMO).

But my question is: I can't seem to find any documentation that details how to interpret the beep(s)  - does any exist?  I'd swear I've heard it beep 1x or sometimes 2x.

Does 2 beeps mean coolant level is low and I need to refill?

[Willem2018]

Hello,

Here a method to measure the Q-factor of an L-C circuit with a scope:
https://www.picotech.com/support/topic41255.html  and a very good explanation of the math behind it:
https://www.giangrandi.ch/electronics/ringdownq/ringdownq.shtml

Maybe an idea for the Siglent developers

[luciof]

Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).


A) Measure with statistics on: counts and statistic values should be automatically reset when changing time base or channel gain, without the need to press Clear Sweeps every time. Otherwise the shown statistics would be meaningless and possibly misleading.


B) Probe attenuation settings is more involved than needed. The procedure to change from 10x to 1x is:

1) select the desired channel
2) press Next Page to select Page 1 (each channel remembers its last page)
3) press Probe 10x (SW button #4 from the left)
4) press Probe 10x (SW button #1)
5) press the General Purpose knob (otherwise press the #1 button 17 times...)
6) rotate the knob clockwise to select 1x
... done! (whew...)

Given that the most used attenuation factors are 10x and 1x by far, the UI could be improved in the following way:
after step #3 (pressing SW button #4 "Probe xx") we should have a 1x-10x option active on the same SW button #4, so that pressing it one more time would quickly select the other attenuation factor (between 1x / 10x, or maybe 1x / 10x / custom1 so that a custom quick option could be made available when using those weird 50x or 2000x probes).

My point is: I'm used to scopes equipped with auto probe readout (yes, I'm a little bit spoiled...), but I'm aware of the limitation and accept that this feature has to be be omitted in a budget instrument; but there is no excuse to make things more complicated than strictly necessary.


C) Entering values with the GP knob often is quite complicated and error prone, and the knob press is not always reliable - but that is. Neverthless in many cases it would be helpful to assign the default value to a long press of the knob.


D) Small weird (but non-critical) bug in Data Logger (see pictures):
1) Select Utility p.2 -> Data Logger -> Sample Logger -> Exit: the time base changes from 1 ns/div to 50 us/div without even having started data logging; but the strange thing is in the LABEL settings on the soft menu
2) Press Return (SW button #6): soft menu changes to CH4 page 3

[tautech]

Some notes from using the scope (SDS 1104X-E 6.1.37R9).

B) Probe attenuation settings is more involved than needed. The procedure to change from 10x to 1x is:
............

It doesn't need to be.
If starting at 1x (Factory Default), select channel and on P1 is the input attenuation menu that you can just keep tapping the button to increment to the correct attenuation needed.
When checking, channel assigning and compensating probes for every scope you sell you get pretty darn quick at this. 

Other alternatives are using a user defined User Default where any settings can be assigned as your own default which is in addition to the custom Setups you can create and save.
All this custom functionality is in the Save/Recall menus.