New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[Datman]

Firmware of mine is 4.02 sp4.
I've done some other pictures, this time using the "print screen". I'd like to compare them with others of your scopes in the same conditions. Thanks!

Pictures 1 & 2: Test signal; you can see noise and a the defective switch of a probe of the 4.
Picture 3: noise on ch.1
Picture 4: in the moment of switching timing
Picture 5: ch.1, 200mV/div.
Picture 6: 4 channels, 500mV/div.
Pictures 7 to 10: 4 channels, 2 to 20mV/div.

You can also see that the tracks are not aligned with the arrows on the left. Calibration had no effect.

[KNA]

Thanks for the replies. I got one today and the "upgrade" worked fine, first shot from here.

For future reference, firmware the scope came with was: 00.04.02.SP4
Board version: 0.1.1

Were you still able to "upgrade" to all options? I read that 00.04.02.04.07 the "upgrade doesn't work https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-ds1054z-with-firmware-00-04-02-04-07-hackable/

Not sure why there is so much confusion around this. The firmware version you mentioned is the latest one (which the scope indicates as "00.04.02 SP4" in the system information). The key generator for upgrades still works fine with that version.

I wanted some recent information which I couldn't find in this thread. I assumed the code worked as there are no recent posts describing failures.

[Datman]

Can you post some noise pictures?
Thanks!

I attach my noise measurements in a xls table.

[ebastler]

Can you post some noise pictures?
Thanks!

Hi Datman,

Your most recent screenshots look much better to me. I get very similar results on my DS1054Z (with "upgrade" to 100 MHz). The four screenshots below correspond to the last four you posted: All channels with grounded 1:1 inputs and 20 MHz bandwidth limit, at 2 mV/div to 20 mV/div.

Some channels are in better shape than others; on my scope, channel 1 shows most noise. Maybe the AD converter is just sitting "on the edge" for this channel, with the LSB flipping back and forth? A stopped screenshot shows that it is just alternating between two discrete states, one trace width (2 pixels) apart. That behaviour actually persists up to 10V/div. I have not tried re-running the auto-calibration yet, which might change this (and maybe make another channel worse?), as the current performance is fine for me.

[tequipment]

Just a quick FYI.  We are finally getting our 2 shipments of ds1054z.  After backorders we will have about 250 units in stock.

We will have all back orders cleared and stock in hand in the next 10-12 days or so.  The port delays in the US really slowed things down by several weeks!
http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/DS1054Z/Digital-Oscilloscopes/


Thanks
Evan Cirelli

TEquipment.NET

[Datman]

Thank you, eblaster.
I see your channels 3 & 4 are very quiet.
The seller asked me to ship the scope for a test at no charge (excluding shipping from me to him). Also, the switches of the 4 (!) probes are defective in position x1, then i have 2 reasons for shipping. How are your probes? Do they work without any problem at 1x? Please test series resistance, because problems do not appear on the scope until resistance is under several kohms.

[ebastler]

Also, the switches of the 4 (!) probes are defective in position x1, then i have 2 reasons for shipping. How are your probes? Do they work without any problem at 1x? Please test series resistance, because problems do not appear on the scope until resistance is under several kohms.

Same problem here: In the 1x position, all four probes are pretty useless. I have to "massage" the switch to get a series reistance of 1 kOhm or so. But for all four probes, as soon as I let go of the switch, resistance is all over the place, jumping from several kOhm to MOhm. (As far as I can tell from the ever-changing DMM display.)

Where did you order your scope -- Batronix, by any chance? I had concluded that I would use my 30-year-old 20 MHz probes if I need 1x sensitivity at low bandwidth, but come to think of it, maybe I should ask them to swap the probes for a set that works as advertised...

Cheers,
Jürgen

[DanielS]

How are your probes? Do they work without any problem at 1x?

Out of my two DS1054Z, I have one probe with an effectively broken 1X switch (almost never works), two with somewhat flaky 1X (wiggling the switch may cause them to break contact and go 10X) and another probe where the needle tip "nub" the hook attachment clips onto sometimes gets stuck inside the attachment.

That makes it four out of eight probes with significant electrical or mechanical issues. Still usable but not impressed.

[Datman]

>> In the 1x position, all four probes are pretty useless. I have to "massage" the switch to get a series reistance of 1 kOhm or so
>> I have one probe with an effectively broken 1X switch (almost never works), two with somewhat flaky 1X (wiggling the switch may cause them to break contact and go 10X) and another probe where the needle tip "nub" the hook attachment clips onto sometimes gets stuck inside the attachment.

If I'm searching for a problem in a circuit, I have to have a reliable test set!

[Datman]

Where did you order your scope -- Batronix, by any chance? I had concluded that I would use my 30-year-old 20 MHz probes if I need 1x sensitivity at low bandwidth, but come to think of it, maybe I should ask them to swap the probes for a set that works as advertised...

I've bought my scope from ALLDATA here, in Italy.
A set of 4 "well-working" 100MHz probes is not very cheap...

[Mark]

My humble apologies if I have missed this, but I was wondering if there is a way of setting the date and time on the DS1054Z? 
When I save a wave pic to USB drive the date is 1/1/1980. 

[aveekbh]

... I was wondering if there is a way of setting the date and time on the DS1054Z? 

There is no real time clock on the unit. I'm not sure why they left it out.

[DanielS]

There is no real time clock on the unit. I'm not sure why they left it out.

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

[aveekbh]

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

How much would that cost in volume - $5-10, perhaps? Additional design effort would be small, because they could just reuse the design from another series. I suppose they wanted to keep the BOM cost below some threshold, otherwise they could have just increased the price by $10.

[edavid]

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

How much would that cost in volume - $5-10, perhaps? Additional design effort would be small, because they could just reuse the design from another series. I suppose they wanted to keep the BOM cost below some threshold, otherwise they could have just increased the price by $10.

RTC modules are less than $1 from AliExpress, so I doubt the BOM cost would be more than that, but they would have had to design in a battery holder and door.

[pickle9000]

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

How much would that cost in volume - $5-10, perhaps? Additional design effort would be small, because they could just reuse the design from another series. I suppose they wanted to keep the BOM cost below some threshold, otherwise they could have just increased the price by $10.

RTC modules are less than $1 from AliExpress, so I doubt the BOM cost would be more than that, but they would have had to design in a battery holder and door.

It's interesting how you draw the "price point" line on things like this. The housing and metalwork probably cost as much as the electronics, but no skimping there. Even the cost of the packaging and shipping adds in of course.

One thing I think they could do to increase sales is to modify the software (or make a variation) targeted at the educational market. I'm sure they could sell them there more and that would require no hardware modification. Apple wouldn't be where they are today without that market.

A simple scripting routine that could boot off and sd card would be good and easy to implement.

[MAS3]

Why would they want to sell more at the moment.
They can't keep up with demand right now.
I've been told by a company selling these, that a price raise is coming up.
Don't know if that is due to the Euro going down with respect to the US Dollar, some regional raise or a worldwide thing initiated by Rigol.

[justinDavidow]

My humble apologies if I have missed this, but I was wondering if there is a way of setting the date and time on the DS1054Z? 
When I save a wave pic to USB drive the date is 1/1/1980.

Interesting,  I hadn't known this!

Using the desktop software to grab images over the network stamps the date correctly, and the date/time is included in the filename. (though I PRESUME it's based on the computer time.)

[Datman]

If the computer saves a file, the file will have time and date from the computer...

[Monkeh]

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

How much would that cost in volume - $5-10, perhaps? Additional design effort would be small, because they could just reuse the design from another series. I suppose they wanted to keep the BOM cost below some threshold, otherwise they could have just increased the price by $10.

RTC modules are less than $1 from AliExpress, so I doubt the BOM cost would be more than that, but they would have had to design in a battery holder and door.

Why would it need a door? A properly designed RTC should run for many years on a single cell. Long past warranty, at which point, who cares?

[edavid]

Adding it in would cost a battery, an RTC chip, a crystal and a few other support components. No budget for that on a $400 scope!

How much would that cost in volume - $5-10, perhaps? Additional design effort would be small, because they could just reuse the design from another series. I suppose they wanted to keep the BOM cost below some threshold, otherwise they could have just increased the price by $10.

RTC modules are less than $1 from AliExpress, so I doubt the BOM cost would be more than that, but they would have had to design in a battery holder and door.

Why would it need a door? A properly designed RTC should run for many years on a single cell. Long past warranty, at which point, who cares?

Perhaps.  What did they do on the DS2000?

[Monkeh]

Perhaps.  What did they do on the DS2000?

Just a battery holder on the board. Should last 5+ years easily.

[ebastler]

There is no real time clock on the unit. I'm not sure why they left it out.

I think it is most likely that Rigol left out the RTC quite deliberately, despite the low cost of adding one. Like almost all companies, Rigol need to find good ways to segment their market -- take as much market share from the competition, but make sure that they do not cannibalize their higher-end scopes too much.  Adding all the measurement and analysis features which make the DS1000Z series an "offer you can't refuse" in the amateur, entry-level and educational market, but leaving out a few features which professional users find important, is a perfect way to do that.

CAN decoding functionality is probably another example: Could have been added without extra hardware cost, and maybe even sold as a separate upgrade option -- but it is not available, since it is a typical requirement for the professional space. "If you need that, buy a 2000 series or higher model"; makes perfect commercial sense. I can't blame Rigol for that; they are in this business to make money...

[Marooned]

Hi there

Could someone have a look on this short movie I recorded and tell me if my Rigol has an issue or is it only my lack of knowledge?


My trigger source is set to CH2 somewhere around middle point and this is simple PWM from Arduino. CH1 is mosfet output. Everything is good until I enable CH3 (connected to square test output) or CH4 (not connected). Triggering get lost until I shift its level higher (even above actual source signal).
This looks for me like an issue but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

[electr_peter]

Could someone have a look on this short movie I recorded and tell me if my Rigol has an issue or is it only my lack of knowledge?

Seems like you have not set a proper trigger (trigger is far too low) and scope just happens by luck to refresh it's memory in required frequency. Having more channels changes refresh speed slightly. Or the trigger is just set on the very edge and adding new channel shifts waveform a bit and trigger fails.

Check your trigger and try again.