New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[Datman]

Hi eblaster
Ch1 (yellow) on my pictures 16 and 17 is good for me. I have been disappointed for the residual sampling noise.

Uhmm... It should be not so tricky avoiding a -40dBfs interference for an experienced company. I can not think they are not able to solve that problem.
A cheap instrument can not be as good as more expensive instruments of the same company... I wouldn't be astonished if they made something to add noise, making the DS1000 series worse than more expensive series!

[ebastler]

I am not thinking of it as "-40 dB interference", but as "1 LSB discretisation noise". That seems hard to avoid, especially when an input signal sits "on the edge" between two levels of the A/D converter.

(Although, as mentioned above, it should be avoidable for the 0V level, by proper auto-calibration of the input offset. It has been observed before that Rigol seem to get the 0V offset systematically wrong in the DS1000Z scopes; after auto-calibration, "0V" seems to end up somewhere at the upper end of the noise level. As a consequence, even minimal noise will be quite likely to trigger a change between two adjacent bit levels...)

[Datman]

That's right, but noise is higher than the 2nd LSB (about 5/256) and it is not random, but it has the sampling frequency or strictly related.

[ebastler]

Yes, 5 counts of noise would seem a lot. As mentioned above, I don't think the screenshots you had shared recently show more than 2 counts for the worst channel. Has the higher noise level (which had disappeared after a firmware update, I seem to recall) reappeared?

You are right that the noise seems to be periodic, when looking at the screenshots. 8 ns per period (in the 10 ns/div screenshots, both yours and mine). So I may have to think "interference" after all, rather than "discretisation noise" ;-)  I will have another look at my DS1054Z tonight, looking at some single-shot noise patterns, and whether the noise period changes with sampling frequency in 2-channel and 1-channel mode.

[Datman]

>> I don't think the screenshots you had shared recently show more than 2 counts for the worst channel.

If the peak level is 1/5 of a square, it is 1/50 (10 squares) of 256 (8 bit vertical A/D converter resolution)

[ebastler]

If the peak level is 1/5 of a square, it is 1/50 (10 squares) of 256 (8 bit vertical A/D converter resolution)

Sure, but which of your screenshots shows the noise filling 1/5 of a square? With the exception of the ones captured at 2mv/div or 5mV/div (where you start to see the actual noise of the input stage),  I see only traces with two line-widths (4 pixels), which seems to correspond to 1 digit of noise. That's also supported by your image number 4, which shows a single-shot trace alternating between just two discrete states. The light-blue channel is an exception, with an extra digit of noise, in your scope.

I am curious to find out how Rigol does the scaling on the screen. On a local scale, it seems to be 2 pixels per digit, but that does not pan out with the 400 pixels for the full vertical scale, of course. Maybe the ADC only counts to 200??  I will try to capture a ramp signal in pixel-mode and count the discrete states...

[DanielS]

If the peak level is 1/5 of a square, it is 1/50 (10 squares) of 256 (8 bit vertical A/D converter resolution)

The easiest way to check that and be certain beyond reasonable doubt would be to export data to CVS and see how many different readings you get. Put that on a spreadsheet and you can do a histogram and do other statistical analysis on the reading distribution.

Maybe the ADC only counts to 200??  I will try to capture a ramp signal in pixel-mode and count the discrete states...

Do a one-shot capture, export it to CVS, then do a histogram with 256 bins to see if you have any missing bins. Missing bins would indicate missing counts.

[JohnnyBerg]

Is there already a thread with some fancy/nice/special screen dumps from the scope?

I see that display mode has some influence on the lsb noise of the "beam", not sure yet how to interpret ate that.

[ebastler]

Do a one-shot capture, export it to CVS, then do a histogram with 256 bins to see if you have any missing bins. Missing bins would indicate missing counts.

OK, here we go. I connected a ramp signal to channel 1 of my DS1054Z and captured a single shot in normal acquisition mode, sin(x)/x off, dot display. Screenshot and CSV data are attached. The CSV data has 1500 points, as expected from the sample rate (I had all 4 channels on to get a sparse dot display, enabling me to see the individual dots on screen better). But it only has 200 different vertical values, all spaced equidistantly without extra gaps.

So it seems that the DS1054Z limits its data acquisition and display to a sub-range of 200 counts out of the full 256, only. This of course maps nicely onto the 400 pixel net vertical range of the display. Cheating just a little bit; we've got ourselves a 7.6 bit ADC here...

-- Edit: Something strange going on in addition here. I had intentionally set the ramp amplitude to clip at the beginning and end of the displayed range, to establish a baseline. But I just realized that
(a) the CSV data do not show the clippling, but a strange dip and then a continuation of the linear ramp, and that
(b) I can switch the scope to the next lower sensitivity, while still showing the captured single-shot scan, and it will then display without the clipping.
So do the 200 levels in the CSV actually correspond to a larger vertical range, which even goes beyond what's on the screen in the screenshot below? But that would not make sense; what about the nice "200 counts = 400 pixels" correspondence?? Confused; need to look more closely...

[cryptos]

hello
I recently purchased the Rigol ds1054z and makes me think things but not sure since it's my first oscilloscope is normal this happen ?.




Thank You

[Teneyes]

So it seems that the DS1054Z limits its data acquisition and display to a sub-range of 200 counts out of the full 256, only. This of course maps nicely onto the 400 pixel net vertical range of the display. Cheating just a little bit; we've got ourselves a 7.6 bit ADC here...

So do the 200 levels in the CSV actually correspond to a larger vertical range, which even goes beyond what's on the screen in the screenshot below? But that would not make sense; what about the nice "200 counts = 400 pixels" correspondence?? Confused; need to look more closely...

Hi Folks ,
As I think the DS1000Z is based on the DS2000 , here is some information that may be helpfull.
For the DS2000 the 8 bit ADC is scaled, but only 200 counts are shown on the Display
The 256 points are used for over range , but are stored in the Data BUffers
in the 1st DIsplay I show a 1 Vpp saw tooth waveform at 100mV/DIv so only 800mV are shown but the DSO does measure the 1Vpp accurately as you can see from the Measurement (using the display Data Buffer)

But using a Utility that Marmad wrote (RUU), one can see the full range of 256 as 10 vertical divisions
See Pix #2

I hope that helps
as for noise, I used High Res or Averaging to see how well Calibration did.

Pix #3 is another display RUU can capture!
A capture of frames in 3-D , a Frequency sweep 4-40MHz with 20MHz BW filter

[DanielS]

So do the 200 levels in the CSV actually correspond to a larger vertical range, which even goes beyond what's on the screen in the screenshot below? But that would not make sense; what about the nice "200 counts = 400 pixels" correspondence?? Confused; need to look more closely...

I actually see 201 bins with one or more counts in them by making my bins in 0.04V increments from -5.1V to +5.1V, so it looks like the ramp has 55 missing counts in it.

The second graph shows the histogram of class sizes for the first histogram to show which counts per class are most frequent. Ideally, if the full dynamic range had been used, the most common class size should have been six with 150+ hits.

[Teneyes]

I recently purchased the Rigol ds1054z and makes me think things but not sure since it's my first oscilloscope is normal this happen ?.

@ cryptos
I think your Keyboard is not working
on the DS2000 there is a hidden Utility to test the Keyboard, is this on the DS1000Z also??
Report and get RMA from Rigol

I have had a Keyboard failure and sent my DSO back for repair.

[FRob]

Ex.: I'm watching a 200us signal on 50us timescale. I tried to compensate by setting hold-off to a large value, e.g. 1s. However, this only results in the waveform standing still for one second while the 200us signal that triggered it is already off-screen. Is this the intended behavior? At work I use AUTO mode all the time, yet on DS1054Z it kind of becomes useless for random probing, because it's easy to miss a trigger event when nothing on-

From the User's guide:
"Note: When the horizontal time base is set to 50 ms/div or greater, this Auto trigger mode allows the absence of trigger signal."

Maybe try Normal trigger mode for intermittent pulses

Thanks for your response. However, I'm at 50µs, not 50ms. Surely, on smaller timescales, I should be able to see every trigger in AUTO mode? How does AUTO mode work for everybody else? Does anybody happen to see the current trigger being held a bit longer, like on Textronics?

[mcinque]

is normal this happen ?.

NO.

[Vostro]

Hi Folks,
I have just recently received my DS1054Z, which I am most pleased with, and the dealer, Telonic, were excellent.

I have been experimenting with the Riglol 'keygen' codes. My unit has the following fitted:-

Software Version        00.04.02 SP4
Board Version             0.1.1

The 'keygen' code DSFR did not work, it came up with an invalid code message!
However, the 'keygen' code DSER worked first time. The only difference between these codes, as far as I can discover, is that DSFR is supposed to activate all options including 500uV/div. The DSER code enables all that DSFR is supposed to do except for the 500u/div option.

Maybe Rigol have removed the 'buggy' 500uV/div option from the latest software/board issue!

Hope that this information is useful to EEVBLOG Forum readers.

73 Dick

Hi, I'm new here
I also just got a 1054Z Board Version 0.1.1 and Software Version 00.04.02.SP4

Where can get hold of the keygen please, help would be appreciated

Regards

[Lightages]

Here you go:
http://gotroot.ca/rigol/riglol/

Use option code DSEF. Do not use DSFR or DSBA - 500uV Vertical as this does not work and causes problems with the scope.

[Vostro]

Thanks

[JohnnyBerg]

Hmm .. is this forum supposed to support illegal activities.

[Lightages]

It is not illegal. If you are not comfortable doing it, then don't. Dave's stand on this is clear too, if you own it, it is your to do as you wish. Rigol even put Dave's video on how to hack the DS1052E on their website!

[JohnnyBerg]

It is not illegal.

I find that very hard to believe.
It is the same procedure as a keygen to unlock software. Is that legal?

If you are not comfortable doing it, then don't. Dave's stand on this is clear too, if you own it, it is your to do as you wish. Rigol even put Dave's video on how to hack the DS1052E on their website!

Then why then sell it?
Or is the world divided into smart asses that can hack stuff, and losers who pay for it?

[Lightages]

This is an international forum. You can't just make a statement that something is illegal and I can't say that it isn't, not everywhere. Some people actually think this is a marketing tactic by Rigol now.

[Vostro]

I'm not going to argue legalities.

But Rigol got me to purchase their Scope, and in the future a Rigol arb Generator.

And their Brand is growing, even in my Country, and they getting more exposure.

I'm sure they are going to do very well

[Muxr]

It is not illegal.

I find that very hard to believe.
It is the same procedure as a keygen to unlock software. Is that legal?

If you are not comfortable doing it, then don't. Dave's stand on this is clear too, if you own it, it is your to do as you wish. Rigol even put Dave's video on how to hack the DS1052E on their website!

Then why then sell it?
Or is the world divided into smart asses that can hack stuff, and losers who pay for it?

It's a gray area. On one side you should be able to hack and mod anything you own. Who cares if you move bits jail break whatever. You paid for it, you should be able to play with it, you're voiding the warranty perhaps.

On the flip side the hackability is one of the reasons Rigol is so popular right now. If there was a Siglent hack to unlock a 50mhz scope into a 100mhz one it would be more popular I guarantee it.

If you think about it, it lets Rigol push products in all the segments. Companies who buy their equipment aren't going to hack. So they are not cannibalizing their own sales to businesses by having cheap 100mhz scopes. But it also improves their market penetration and adoption because of the popularity in the community due to the hacks.

It's a win for Rigol and hobbyists.

[Howardlong]

I have bought two scopes, a spectrum analyser and a power supply from Rigol. I doubt I'd have done so if there wan't some after market fettling to be done, and two of those items were purchased before a fettle had even been published, anticipating that there might be one available, which indeed in due course there was.