New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[alsetalokin4017]

So at 3 or 4 sample counts per second it could take an hour or more for the measurements to stop, or it could take as little as one minute or even less.

Welp ... I let mine go for about 1.6 hours - over 20k counts and it kept right on truckin'. I saw no sign of the stats freezing so I stopped it. I doubt I'd ever use it like that for that long anyways. 

But - some people might let it run all night.

However, I will use your setup file and conduct a test later this afternoon. Be interesting to see what happens. If it does freeze ... be interesting to speculate on the reason.

Stay tuned ... 

I use the scope in my work and it is often on continuously for four hours or longer or even overnight, depending on the kinds of testing I am running.

Can you do a display of your complete System Information screen so we can see your scope's full software suite?  To get this display you have to press, in the Trigger area, Menu>Menu>Force>Menu very rapidly, then in Utility>System>System Info. If you don't succeed at first, press the button sequence faster.

[xrunner]

I loaded your setup file and did another test. It hung up at 3466 counts. So, it's interesting that using the same signals, it couldn't get nearly as far. I wonder what the quirk is about it? See attachments.

Can you do a display of your complete System Information screen so we can see your scope's full software suite?  To get this display you have to press, in the Trigger area, Menu>Menu>Force>Menu very rapidly, then in Utility>System>System Info. If you don't succeed at first, press the button sequence faster.

Please see attachment.

[alsetalokin4017]

I loaded your setup file and did another test. It hung up at 3466 counts. So, it's interesting that using the same signals, it couldn't get nearly as far. I wonder what the quirk is about it? See attachments.

Can you do a display of your complete System Information screen so we can see your scope's full software suite?  To get this display you have to press, in the Trigger area, Menu>Menu>Force>Menu very rapidly, then in Utility>System>System Info. If you don't succeed at first, press the button sequence faster.

Please see attachment.

I wonder too. You could go through the settings in my .stp file and compare them with yours to see if there is some critical difference lurking in there. We both seem to be running the same software suite at least.

I just turned on the scope to see if positioning the Math trace at the bottom instead of the center made a difference... and the Measurements froze after only _12 counts_ after I turned the Math on, a new "low record" for me. I sure wish there was another way to get them back without power-cycling the scope. By far most of the start cycles on my present unit are due to this bug.

Thanks for persevering, sorry that you have the bug too. But at least Rigol are working on it... supposedly...   

[xrunner]

Post-hack data update

Before hack -

@ 1 MHz: Vpp = 208 mV
@ 50 MHz: Vpp = 178 mV (-1.3 dB)
@ 100 MHz: Vpp = 138 mV (-3.5 dB)

The true -3 dB bandwidth was 95 MHz


After hack (using same ref voltage)-

@ 1 MHz: Vpp = 208 mV
@ 50 MHz: Vpp = 194 mV (-0.6 dB)
@ 100 MHz: Vpp = 162 mV (-2.2 dB)
@ 150 MHz: Vpp = 136 mV (-3.7 dB)

The official -3 dB bandwidth now occurs @ 135 MHz (147 mV).

[Ysjoelfir]

I recently ordered the DS1054Z and can't await its arrival! Since this is my first digital scope (but I am used to analog scopes) I wonder if there are some tips and advice you could give me, or point me towards some introductional videos, since I didn't find anything except this thread: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/common-misunderstandings-about-digital-oscilloscopes/msg724585/#msg724585
I am quite sure this was discussed before, maybe even from dave himself, but I really can't find what I'm looking for.

I would love to use the spare time while waiting for it to arrive to learn how to really use a DSO correctly to avoid this -> 

Any advice is very much apreciated! thanks!

[Fungus]

I would love to use the spare time while waiting for it to arrive to learn how to really use a DSO correctly

Download the manual and read it...?

to avoid this ->    Any advice is very much apreciated! thanks!

It's no more likely to break then an analog 'scope. The same precautions apply.

[Ysjoelfir]

Hi fungus,
At first I have to say that I already watched the video some weeks before as I am going through all his videos right now. But I actually knew that already, I did even find a mistake in one of the lab experiments we do at university which lead to random distruction of the tek DSOs they are using because the experiment wanted you to measure the mains with one channel and a circuit connected to mains with the other channel.. And the experimental mains outlet and the outlet for the oscilloscopes were both mains earth referenced.. So I actually know how not to fry my scope shouldn't have used that emoticon I guess..

So what I wanted to know was mainly, if there are some special points in handling the rigol scope, or if there are common mistakes done by CRT to DSO switchers that could be avoided. Stuff beyond the manual I mean.

[crispy_tofu]

I would love to use the spare time while waiting for it to arrive to learn how to really use a DSO correctly

Might be useful: https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys193/Labs/XYZs_of_Oscilloscopes.pdf 

[vk6zgo]

Hi fungus,
At first I have to say that I already watched the video some weeks before as I am going through all his videos right now. But I actually knew that already, I did even find a mistake in one of the lab experiments we do at university which lead to random distruction of the tek DSOs they are using because the experiment wanted you to measure the mains with one channel and a circuit connected to mains with the other channel.. And the experimental mains outlet and the outlet for the oscilloscopes were both mains earth referenced.. So I actually know how not to fry my scope shouldn't have used that emoticon I guess..

So what I wanted to know was mainly, if there are some special points in handling the rigol scope, or if there are common mistakes done by CRT to DSO switchers that could be avoided. Stuff beyond the manual I mean.

I don't have any type of DSO,but from the various threads on this forum,it seems like the DS1054Z,& modern DSOs in general,are fairly
user-friendly------much more so than the early ones,which were nightmarish!

[Fungus]

So what I wanted to know was mainly, if there are some special points in handling the rigol scope, or if there are common mistakes done by CRT to DSO switchers that could be avoided. Stuff beyond the manual I mean.

No.

[Ysjoelfir]

Might be useful: https://courses.physics.illinois.edu/phys193/Labs/XYZs_of_Oscilloscopes.pdf 

That is definitely usefull, there is that type of detail information I was looking for! Thanks a lot!

I don't have any type of DSO,but from the various threads on this forum,it seems like the DS1054Z,& modern DSOs in general,are fairly
user-friendly------much more so than the early ones,which were nightmarish!

Yeah, I know.. I have a LeCroy 9400A which was for its time quite nice I guess, but hell it's a pain in the ass to use! I actually printed some instructions, to example "how to get to single shot mode". But I guess that is as always a questioin of familiarisation, and since the LeCroy died (again... I repaired it just some weeks ago) last week I am sick of it and decided to get a decent real digital scope.
But it's good to know that the general usability of modern DSOs is quite nice compared to old ones, so I guess I shouldn't have to much struggle getting used to it

No.

ok

[alsetalokin4017]

Yes.   

Expecting more precision than is actually delivered by the scope's A-D converter system... and being fooled by waveform aliasing artifacts...

What you see on a DSO is not always what your actual signal should look like. This topic is covered to some extent in the scope's manual, but there really isn't room there for a comprehensive treatment. There has even been some discussion here as to whether or not the DS1054Z correctly implements the sin(x)/x interpolation algorithm properly.

Some DSO signal artifacts can approach "art":


Also, a low-end DSO like the DS1054Z doesn't do as well in the X-Y mode compared to even a basic analog scope. You can see the difference in various videos that compare the display of the "oscillofun" track between DSO and analog scope.


Still... you'll like using the DSO very much. I'm hardly ever using my analog scopes any more.

[Mark]

Is there any way of saving all of the screens captured during a "waveform record" session? 
I have 200 waveforms at a time and currently only save off the interesting looking ones, but it gets time consuming if there are a lot of such waveforms.  Ideally I would like all the captures saved off automatically as screen prints.  Any way to do this or should I get my camera out and record the screen as the oscilloscope plays the waveforms? 

[doktor pyta]

Below You will find step response of my hacked Rigol DS1054Z (100MHz). This test was performed using Tektronix 284 70ps pulse generator to check if there is any ringing.
Pictures for time base settings: 5ns/div and 50ns/div.
Results: quite good.
Edit: Especially for Fungus I'll read the risetime measurement shown on the upper picture: 3,2ns.

[Fungus]

Below You will find step response of my hacked Rigol DS1054Z (100MHz). This test was performed using Tektronix 284 70ps pulse generator to check if there is any ringing.
Pictures for time base settings: 5ns/div and 50ns/div.
Results: quite good.

"quite good" isn't an engineering term.

There's a button over on the left that displays a value labelled "rise time" on screen... 

[Maf]

First things first - hi everyone!

I have a question to the DS1054Z users: despite all the recent problems with the scope (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/), is it still worth buying it? Are there any known "big" problems that make the daily usage of the scope problematic? Is Rigol known for fixing their bugs? The Christmas is coming and I still didn't decide whether to buy the scope and hope for the fixes or wait/buy another model.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.

[nanofrog]

First things first - hi everyone!

I have a question to the DS1054Z users: despite all the recent problems with the scope (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/), is it still worth buying it? Are there any known "big" problems that make the daily usage of the scope problematic? Is Rigol known for fixing their bugs? The Christmas is coming and I still didn't decide whether to buy the scope and hope for the fixes or wait/buy another model.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Despite the bugs, it's still quite usable and one heck of a bargain as well (can't be beaten on value ATM in fact). As per fixing the bugs, Rigol has been working on it (firmware release notes from 6/16/2015 are attached as an example as they're not the latest).

My recommendation is go ahead and buy one. 

[alsetalokin4017]

Below You will find step response of my hacked Rigol DS1054Z (100MHz). This test was performed using Tektronix 284 70ps pulse generator to check if there is any ringing.
Pictures for time base settings: 5ns/div and 50ns/div.
Results: quite good.

"quite good" isn't an engineering term.

There's a button over on the left that displays a value labelled "rise time" on screen... 

The doktor probably realizes that... since he has a rise time measurement from the left menu displayed on the screen....   

And I think "quite good" is engineering shorthand for "pretty good indeed for a 400 dollar instrument".....   

[alsetalokin4017]

First things first - hi everyone!

I have a question to the DS1054Z users: despite all the recent problems with the scope (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/), is it still worth buying it? Are there any known "big" problems that make the daily usage of the scope problematic? Is Rigol known for fixing their bugs? The Christmas is coming and I still didn't decide whether to buy the scope and hope for the fixes or wait/buy another model.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.

Despite the bugs, it's still quite usable and one heck of a bargain as well (can't be beaten on value ATM in fact). As per fixing the bugs, Rigol has been working on it (firmware release notes from 6/16/2015 are attached as an example as they're not the latest).

My recommendation is go ahead and buy one. 

I'd have to agree.

If you get one from current or recent production you most probably will _not_ have the Freeze Bug as described in the linked thread, since it seems to affect scopes with the earlier Boot Version 0.0.1.2 and not the current Boot Version 0.0.1.3.
 
It will still likely have the other bugs I've found but these are easy to avoid or work around if you know that they are there. Right now the major annoyance is this Measurement Fail bug that comes with the most recent Firmware Revision SP2, but yes, Rigol have said that they are working on a fix for this, and as I said it is fairly easy to work around.

If I were you I'd check with your vendor and make sure you don't get a unit with Boot Version 0.0.1.2.

[miguelvp]

"quite good" is an engineering term that means that is better than "good enough for government work" which is below plain old "good" and actually below "good enough".

But "quite good" is a bit below "excellent" but at a fraction of the price.

[Marcos]

How Rigol will manage Boot version 0.0.1.2 faulty oscilloscopes ?
AFAIK the boot version can not be updated or fixed without using an external programmer. Will they recall the scopes and replace them with newer versions?
I've bought mine from a third party re-seller and can't get any support from them.
Also asked Rigol about this but nobody bothered yet to reply to my question. So I will make my question public in here hoping that some guys from Rigol will take attitude and give us an answer.
Also, switching the timebase to anything higher than 1s keep the scope with a long delay before getting that timebase setting. Even with lower memory depth. Something is not right here.

[Marcos]

How Rigol will manage Boot version 0.0.1.2 faulty oscilloscopes ?
AFAIK the boot version can not be updated or fixed without using an external programmer.

Just as information, for my DS1074Z-S there was a boot firmware update.

Sparrow(ARM)update_00.04.00.00.00
Sparrow(Boot)update_00.04.00.00.00

Peter

Well, it will be nice if a similar patch will be available for 1054Z. Thanks for the tip 
BTW, which number you have now for your Boot ?

[Maf]

How Rigol will manage Boot version 0.0.1.2 faulty oscilloscopes ?
AFAIK the boot version can not be updated or fixed without using an external programmer.

Just as information, for my DS1074Z-S there was a boot firmware update.

Sparrow(ARM)update_00.04.00.00.00
Sparrow(Boot)update_00.04.00.00.00

Peter

So... is there a known way to update the bootloader on the DS1054Z? It's basically (AFAIK) the same hardware as DS1074Z-S.

[Marcos]

Seems that 1000z series received that boot update a long time ago when the firmware was 00.04.00.00.00
It will be interesting to know which number was before and after that boot update.

I've tried today to go back from (04_03_01_05) to (04_02_04_07)
Guess what, still not possible. So, the problem with downgrading the firmware is not only for the latest release (04_03_02_03) 

[Maf]

Seems that 1000z series received that boot update a long time ago when the firmware was 00.04.00.00.00
It will be interesting to know which number was before and after that boot update.

I've tried today to go back from (04_03_01_05) to (04_02_04_07)
Guess what, still not possible. So, the problem with downgrading the firmware is not only for the latest release (04_03_02_03) 

I am repeating here myself, but does this mean, that it's technically possible to update the bootloader in the 1000z series?