Siglent SDS1104X-E and SDS1204X-E Mixed Signal Oscilloscopes

[PatrickB]

My last oscilloscope had display problems and the manufacturer, even in China, did not respond to my emails.    They knew that this problem could not be solved...
This display problem was not a software problem but a hardware design flaw.

But this oscilloscope broke down and the importer was forced to accept the return to his workshop (free return costs).
I asked for a refund for this device that I had had for 1 year. 
Making the importer listen to reason was not easy, imagine what would have happened if I had bought my oscilloscope from a store that did not offer support.

Now I have another Chinese oscilloscope purchased from an authorized distributor near me. 

[WPE]

Thank you Tautec - that could be my best option.  I saw both products at SiglentNA/Amazon - but you have to click the "see Siglent Technologies store" tab to find the 'scope.  (I'm partly guessing that I'm still in the SiglentNA store at that point.) 

[tautech]

My last oscilloscope had display problems and the manufacturer, even in China, did not respond to my emails.    They knew that this problem could not be solved...
This display problem was not a software problem but a hardware design flaw.

But this oscilloscope broke down and the importer was forced to accept the return to his workshop (free return costs).
I asked for a refund for this device that I had had for 1 year. 
Making the importer listen to reason was not easy, imagine what would have happened if I had bought my oscilloscope from a store that did not offer support.

Now I have another Chinese oscilloscope purchased from an authorized distributor near me. 

Name and shame the reseller please.

In France you have 3 authorized resellers all answerable to Siglent Germany.
Did you not buy from them ?

[YurkshireLad]

I bought a brand new SDS1104X-E - are they supposed to come with the screen protector that you have to peel off? Mine didn't. Just wondering in case I got a returned model.

[rf-loop]

I bought a brand new SDS1104X-E - are they supposed to come with the screen protector that you have to peel off? Mine didn't. Just wondering.

No. What protector this real glass surface need in this case. Just no any reason to add it. It is very different case if surface is just naked TFT plastic surface as in some monitors etc.

[YurkshireLad]

I bought a brand new SDS1104X-E - are they supposed to come with the screen protector that you have to peel off? Mine didn't. Just wondering.

No. What protector this real glass surface need in this case. Just no any reason to add it. It is very different case if surface is just naked TFT plastic surface as in some monitors etc.

Ok thanks.

[pope]

I noticed that when the self calibration button is pressed (and you get that tab on the screen that says to press the "single" button) the only option you have is to do the self cal. In other words, it's impossible to cancel the operation (and make the tab disappear) unless you restart the scope.

Can someone confirm please?

My oscope is up to date in terms of firmware and OS.

Thanks

[tautech]

Without firing up mine I'm sure there's a cancel, try Run/Stop.

[pope]

Without firing up mine I'm sure there's a cancel, try Run/Stop.

OK, I must be stupid because although I was sure I tried the Run/Stop yesterday, I clearly didn't because it seems to work fine. So, please ignore me.... 

[tautech]

Investigations.
1. Powering from DC might be possible however even ramping voltage to 100V @ 2A wasn't enough to let my SDS1104X-E wake up.
So that's a fail for portability however with the low cost of 12V inverters there are other options:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114897623156

2. Encoders
Only 2 are detented, V/div and s/div of course and all others at first glance appear the same footprint, Trigger level, Hpos, Vpos and the much maligned Multifunction control.
All encoders are branded LJV but with zero further markings that I have spotted. 
Dongguan LJV Industry Investments Co., Ltd., Guangdong, China

They are 2 plus 3 pin types with a further 2 mounting lugs, all with hole centers of 12 x 15 mm and D form 6mm shafts with total height above PCB of 20mm.

As seen in the attached pic only V/div and s/div are metal shaft while the other 4 are plastic shafts of some sort.
Encoder body height is different for the 2 types used (2 detented @ 4.6mm H vs 4 not detented @ 6mm H)

These look much like those used for V/div and s/div which BTW are 20 clicks/rev <checked !
https://www.ecplaza.net/products/11mm-heavy-rotational-torque-rotary-encoder_3039870

Can we presume the other 4 encoders are also 20 pulses/rev, checked, they are 20 also.
This is a good match for them:
https://www.ecplaza.net/products/12mm-rotary-encoder_3036320

Notice one is listed as 11mm and the other 12mm yet from my measurements the pinout seems the same.

While I have it apart please advise best method to check pulses/rev for the non-detented encoders so we can be sure to find the correct type in a detented version. < checked with DMM continuity tester and count # for half one revolution for a 20p/rev result.

[robert.rozee]

excellent photo and description!   

so there are 2 'metal' (detented) encoders, and 4 'plastic' (detentless) encoders. do you reckon that one could fit the 'metal' (detented) encoders in place of ALL of the plastic ones? checking my own SDS1104X-E scope, there is a distinct difference in the feel of the 'metal' vs 'plastic' encoders that goes beyond the detent. the metal ones feel far more solid and of (dare i say it) better quality.

lets say a customer had a broken encoder, where for some reason the shaft had broken off. could/would Siglent be willing to supply a replacement decoder as a spare part? i'd certainly be happy to pay a very fair price for 4 'metal' decoders.


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Calambres]

Regarding detented encoders and in this very topic:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/1725/

[pope]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients 

[tautech]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients

Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.

[pope]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients

Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.

Have you seen the date next to it?

[tautech]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients

Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.

Have you seen the date next to it?

Are you questioning my eyesight ?

[pope]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients

Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.

Have you seen the date next to it?

Are you questioning my eyesight ?

I don't need to.

The date is "2022/5/27" and the update was uploaded a couple of days ago.

BTW, you were the one "attacking" me by assuming I hadn't read the .pdf

You need to chill a bit.

[BillyO]

The date is "2022/5/27" and the update was uploaded a couple of days ago.

Does not surprise me.  That date would represent when the final version of the code for the new hardware was completed.

It may well have taken many months for the new hardware to undergo final testing and to make it into the queue for production.

[Neutrion]

Do we know what the HW changes are actually? Is there really a new ADC in the new ones? Would be nice to see a teardown and compare the new with the old.
It seems to me that the old version had less offset. At least mine is pretty good compared to what I see in the last posts, but to get the best results I actually turned the quick cal off.

[WPE]

MUCH THANKS to those who responded to my questions, and for the many helpful comments and reviews on EEVBLOG > I finally decided on the Siglent SDS1204X-E with the SDG2042X, from Saelig, after looking hard at the SDS2104XP which was $400 off at the time - hard choice. 

As mentioned by others, both arrived without the screen protectors they used to ship with.  The only consequence was a small faint diagonal band on the left side of the 'scope display where the matte finish is worn slightly less matte - barely visible. 

As others expected, I am very pleased with what I received, especially with such a broad spectrum of novel features - even datalogging. 

I've done an abbreviated "Acceptance Test" with everything going well.  My noise, DC offset, and channel skew are within very reasonable limits - grateful for all the blogs so I knew what to expect, and what to look for. 

I enjoyed trying out the FFT - impressed with being able to see the rather complex response of a 5.3 MHz filter for old GE COMM radios (GE MASTR2) using MAX HOLD.  Just like Dave Jone's review - that worked out better using RF SWEEP instead of NOISE from my SDG.  FFT showed me that the square wave harmonics from my SDG2042X stop at 40 MHz - and the HARMONICS function doesn't extend beyond 40 MHz. 

FFT also showed  the SDG2042X has NOISE output all the way to 120 MHz - very glad of that (also saw it on my TinySA). 

I was very pleased with Bode Plot 2 performance - seeing great detail in that same filter - tried it with 50, 200, and 500 points.  AND very pleased that variable automatic gain provides a much larger dynamic range. 

To get a good plot, I had to add a 100k ohm resistor to isolate the end of my x10 probe, which greatly improved things - but for the SDG output I just tied it directly to the (higher Z) filter input with no obvious distortions - all quick and simple.  (I didn't use any 50 ohm terminators - and much of what I measure won't be at 50 ohms.) 

I welcome any comments about proper matching to both input and output of various filters - especially regarding 455 kHz IF transformers, so that I see the actual response without confusing artifacts. 

My main interest for now is sweeping IF's in antique radios with elaborate multistage variable BW IF's.  For adjusting, I might use the old sweep-gen and demodulator routine - then go back to Bode Plot 2 for a closer look.  OR I might just see how fast BP2 can be with fixed gain and 20-50 points.  (I've been stuck lately because I wanted an accurate "as-found" IF plot for these radios before actually changing anything.) 

Other uses are already nudging me - I may need it to analyze unexpected audio distortion in a preamp.  AND 4 channel datalogging has got to be handy for finding intermittents in antique radios!  These new instruments open up a whole new world, and simplify a lot of things. 

[Ziemnianin]

Thank you Siglent, You build in a feature requests and don't even make note of it.. 

There was a uprising amount of stuff added, its about 3MB extra on the main application alone.

We have all new Bode Plot SCPI commands 

BODE:SW BODE:SWITCH Query / Command
BODE:AWG Query / Command
BODE:STIM BODE:STIMULUS Command
BODE:SWP BODE:SWEEP Command
BODE:SWP:EDIT BODE:SWEEP:EDIT Command
BODE:DUT Command
BODE:OPER BODE:OPERATE Command
BODE:DIS:APM BODE:DISPLAY:APM Command
BODE:DIS:PHA BODE:DISPLAY:PHA Command
BODE:DIS:ASET BODE:DISPLAY:ASET Command
BODE:DIS:CRS BODE:DISPLAY:CRS Command
BODE:DATA Command

Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
C1:POffs Command / Query   
C1:PDAC Command / Query
C1:PDelta Command / Query                     
C1:PIntc C1:PIntercept Command / Query
C1:PCali C1:ProbeCalibrate Command / Query
C1:PInfo C1:ProbeInfo Command / Query
C1:ProbeSN 
C1:PType C1:ProbeType
C1:PRes C1:ProbeRes
C1:PCap C1:ProbeCap
C1:PBW C1:ProbeBW
C1:PGain C1:ProbeGain

And just way too much new stuff around decoders and triggering for me to dig through tonight, its about 4 pages worth of commands, more or less breaking out every available settings, Good work devs,

I am working on automatically getting bode plot data via LAN to PC with SDX1204X-E and SDG2042X. I already achieved connection to SDS and can send SCPI command in python (like getting screen dump).
I am trying to find Siglent description of SCPI commands necessary to get bode plot in any numeric format via lan. Probably it will also require stopping and starting Run of bode plot (you can't save data to pendrive with SDS if bode plot is in run state).
It seems that EEVblog forum is the only place where you can find any reference to those commands in web and I can't guess how to use them.
The SCPI command 'BODE:SW?' is only one which I can make work, probably the rest of cmd for bode plot lacks of additional arguments/syntax.
Can you please share with me documentation or some example/reference of using bode plot with SCPI commands  ?

[Ziemnianin]

Hey, I used some hacks from this forum to automate collecting bode plot data from Siglent, in attachment you can find script in python that uses LAN SCPI command engine vxi11 (free for commercial use) and telnet for communication with instruction how to use it (at bottom of file are some notes about running it). That took me a while as I couldn't find syntax for not documented commands and is a little bit backdoor method. Hope it will help someone, nice forum you have .

Works for setup with (and of course I am not responsible for any harm for user or equipment ):
-Windows machine with lan connection to Siglent and python 3.8
-Oscilloscope Siglent 1104X-e (Software version 6.1.37R8, Uboot-os 8.3)
-Generator Siglent 2042X

How to use it:
Setup IP connection on your Siglent
Turn off oscilloscope
Plug pendrive with siglent_device_startup.sh and remount.sh from Paul_GD post (should be empty beside that, otherwise siglent won't like it) https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/unlocking-siglent-sds1104x-e-step-by-step/msg4292821/#msg4292821
Turn on oscilloscope (it will start telnet server)
Setup your bode plot measurement, script need to have CH1, CH2 and CH3 in use (better read that: https://siglentna.com/application-note/bode-plot-filter-oscilloscope-generator/ )
Start Run of bode plot
Don't touch your oscilloscope buttons (it uses interface for interaction)
Set IP in script (line 324, SDS_instance = SDS1104X_E("192.168.0.210")
Run script, it should save every bode plot cycle of oscilloscope to file and display oscilloscope screen
Note: if you use low frequencies (~10Hz) you may want to regulate some variables in script (siglent responses have lags in this case)

Thanks for Rerouter priv help and those posts:

Thank you Siglent, You build in a feature requests and don't even make note of it.. 

There was a uprising amount of stuff added, its about 3MB extra on the main application alone.

We have all new Bode Plot SCPI commands 

BODE:SW BODE:SWITCH Query / Command
BODE:AWG Query / Command
BODE:STIM BODE:STIMULUS Command
BODE:SWP BODE:SWEEP Command
BODE:SWP:EDIT BODE:SWEEP:EDIT Command
BODE:DUT Command
BODE:OPER BODE:OPERATE Command
BODE:DIS:APM BODE:DISPLAY:APM Command
BODE:DIS:PHA BODE:DISPLAY:PHA Command
BODE:DIS:ASET BODE:DISPLAY:ASET Command
BODE:DIS:CRS BODE:DISPLAY:CRS Command
BODE:DATA Command

Some new probe commands that hint at digital probes
C1:POffs Command / Query   
C1:PDAC Command / Query
C1:PDelta Command / Query                     
C1:PIntc C1:PIntercept Command / Query
C1:PCali C1:ProbeCalibrate Command / Query
C1:PInfo C1:ProbeInfo Command / Query
C1:ProbeSN 
C1:PType C1:ProbeType
C1:PRes C1:ProbeRes
C1:PCap C1:ProbeCap
C1:PBW C1:ProbeBW
C1:PGain C1:ProbeGain

And just way too much new stuff around decoders and triggering for me to dig through tonight, its about 4 pages worth of commands, more or less breaking out every available settings, Good work devs,

Just a small tip as to how to get root access the easiest on the SDS1104X-E

This works on the latest Uboot 8.3 and 6.1.37R9 firmware

Simply put the two scripts I attached on the root of your USB stick, the scope will automatically open up a root telnet on port 9999 while booting.
When in telnet, you can use the remount.sh script to change the USB from r/o to r/w.

Don't forget to remove the file after playing around, we don't want exposed root shells on the network!

But to cover myself, I of course take no responsibility for any damage that may occur to the user or the scope by using my script.

I hope this can help some people who didn't have success flashing a custom Uboot ^^

[Rerouter]

It has been so long since I last looked, but happy to see I take up a decent chunk of the patch notes on a firmware version

[Martin72]

Anybody knows what's included in the new firmware update?

Siglent don't seem to care to share this information with their clients

Only because you are not downloading it and opening the OS Revision History PDF.
It states:
The hardware was updated to version of 09(). The OS was also updated to version of 3 to support this new hardware.
If SDS1xx4X-E hardware has version below 09, you don’t need to update SDS1xx4X-E OS.

And it will be ignored by the scope ?
Before reading this, I've copied the files to an empty 8Gb stick, put it to the scope and let it boot.
But nothing "happens" so I guess, if its not necessary it will be ignored...

[mushroom]

About OS 3 ?
My scope came with OS3.
Not understanding the crazy OS versioning, I updated the scope with the latest OS/firmware I could find on Siglent website, as soon as I received the parcel (SDS1204X-E as I didn't want to bother with the hack) ; as a result, I downgraded it to OS 2 ! 8.2 means OS 2, 8.3 means OS 3. Everybody on this planet knew it, except me ! Of course, no warnings at install time.

Asked the reseller (welectron), no answer (ask the importer, blah blah). No answer here.

I found an answer on the Siglent USA Youtube channel :

Scroll down : you'll find a thread with 27 answers. It seems OS 3 is there for some WiFi dongle support very few care about... WiFi hater : slow, flaky, and I'm generating enough EMF myself, no need for more.

Still running OS 2, don't care anymore. Real men use wired Ethernet.
Unless I learn something interesting about OS 3, I won't upgrade (restore...).