CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations

[DavidAlfa]

Don't worry too much, I'll take a break, and then check what the hell is screwing up the regulation.
Meanwhile, test the available versions thoroughly, so I can know the code version causing the issues.

The problems started because I found a dead end. More filtering caused slow oscillation, less filtering caused more noise.
It was getting really hard to get any better. When some people were fine, others didn't. Always the same.
So again, I spent hours trying to figure out a better way, in the end it only added tons of new adjustments, leading to a much more complex tuning.
For a single line of code, maybe there have been 3 hours of testing to find out the best path.

What you should understand once for all is that these little spikes only happen at the sensor, mainly when the power is removed and it suddenly cools down to the real tip body temperature.
You shouldn't expect a perfect regulation, since there's a lot of power and usually a poor tip body-TC bond, so it'll always cause a very little oscillation when changing the setpoint. It's okay if it's just 1/2 second little spike and then gets stable.
This also happens with original fw, althought you don't see it, but if you see the pwm signal or hear carefully, it's a lot more caotic.
Mabe you buy JBC or any other professional brand and you think "it's just fine" because you set 350 and see 350.
Do you reallly thing that's the real thing? There are tiny differences all the time. I'll put both hands in fire if I'm wrong.
I'm seriously thinking in hiding the temp after the setpoint is reached, only showing it when it deviates more than 10-15ºC.
As they say, eyes that don't see, heart that doesn't feel.

What I can't do anymore is keep trying random settings and building everytime just to see if it gets any better.
It's not a matter of buying a ksger, because the same model works better for some people.
Being "lucky" I'll get a problematic model, but also it might work perfectly and do nothign with it.
Same with Quicko, I have 100% the same hardware as some users here, but they get a little oscillation while mine does perfect.
The owners of the "offended" stations need to do try the existing versions and find out the stable ones. Also try to tune the PID.
I know it's not easy, but it's much harder for me to tune a station that only exists in my mind.

2021-08-01 (Agressive PID?)
2021-08-01 (Reduce PID and filter values)
2021-08-2c  (Last build before switching to new PID)
2021-08-04a (Last build before adding new filter method)
2021-08-04b (New filter method)
2021-08-05
2021-08-06
2021-08-07
2021-08-10
2021-08-11

[Cuboy]

Don't worry too much, I'll take a break, and then check what the hell is screwing up the regulation.
Meanwhile, test the available versions thoroughly, so I can check the code affecting that.
What I can't do anymore is keep trying random settings and building everytime.
It's not a matter of buying a ksger, because the same model works better for some people.
Being "lucky" I'll get a problematic model, but also it might work perfectly and do nothign with it.
Same with Quicko, I have 100% the same hardware as some users here, but they get a little oscillation while mine does perfect.

The owners of the "offended" stations need to do try the existing versions and find out the stable ones. Also try to tune the PID.
I know it's not easy, but it's much harder for me to tune a station that only exists in my mind.

2021-08-01 (Agressive PID?)
2021-08-01 (Reduce PID and filter values)
2021-08-2c  (Last build before switching to new PID)
2021-08-04a (Last build before adding new filter method)
2021-08-04b (New filter method)
2021-08-05
2021-08-06
2021-08-07
2021-08-10
2021-08-11

I dont know if i'm lucky or not (regularly i have more bad luck than good one) but in this case for me the fw works flawlessly as i said on a previous post. My ksger has the built in converter so i dont need a power brick.


I dont get any crazy oscilations, no crazy behavior, for me its on point. Lets wait for more ksger users feedback.

[DavidAlfa]

With the current version? The "spiky" edition? 
Somewhere in the future, showing a "KSGER" logo to electronics engineers will make them run like scalded cats.
Run for your lives! Ksger is back! 

With the current one I get a little of overshooting in my Quicko.  +7ºC for 1 second and it settles down.
Of course, the tip doesn't even notice. Not only that, it's still colder.
I used it a lot during this week, I really noticed the 5ºC drift when soldering (ironic mode on).
I'm tired dude, people thinks they can get a JBC for $30, and while it's great performance per buck, they gave to undertand the limitations.
No current sensing, no proper tip detection, crappy board layout susceptible to noise, cheap sensor amplifier, cheap thermocouple compensation...
When you all see a 5ºC error, think it's 100uV. 0.0001V error at the input of the amplifier. Damn it, it's already great for what it is!

On a serious note here, how do you compile-build for different versions of the firmware once you add a piece of code?

I think it's pretty well explained here:
https://github.com/deividAlfa/stm32_soldering_iron_controller#building

Any change in code will be compiled everytime you run it.

[Cuboy]

With the current version? The "spiky" edition? 
Somewhere in the future, showing a "KSGER" logo to electronics engineers will make them run like scalded cats.
Run for your lives! Ksger is back! 

With the current one I get a little of overshooting in my Quicko.  +7ºC for 1 second and it settles down.
Of course, the tip doesn't even notice. Not only that, it's still colder.
I used it a lot during this week, I really noticed the 5ºC drift when soldering (ironic mode on).
I'm tired dude, people thinks they can get a JBC for $30, and while it's great performance per buck , you don't have 1/3rd of the circuitry.
No current sensing, no proper tip detection, crappy board layout susceptible to noise, cheap sensor amplifier, no proper thermocouple compensation...

Not the current version, the last version before this one.

We might not have a JBC, but it works great for 1/3 of the price. Also i have seen wickated using the c245 which is great. We might not have a jbc, but we have something built by the community and cheaper than a JBC.

Of course you will get lots of headaches dealing with that, lots of different feedback from different users with different problems. To deal with that I would suggest using GitHub issues (at least, you won't deal with drama, which sometimes by itself consumes lots of brainpower which could be used to deal with actual problems).


Edit: also yes, i saw the video,for some reason i thought i needed to do another thing when changing the code, thanks.
 

[dark_hawk]

Glad we are back to some rational talking instead of name calling and temper tantrums.

David, please understand, no one here is complaining about 5 degrees oscillations.
If someone new got his unit today and flashed it he will be happy with the performance. Thing is for others who have tested older versions, things at some point started to get worse. For example, for me with 31/7, things where great, no spikes, no oscillations, no overshoots, fast recovery from load, and stable ramp up curves. I even have 3 bad tips that can be tuned with minimal PID adjustments.
Jump forward a few versions, and we got spikes, and not just 5 degrees, more like 30 when recovering and when ramping up (onscreen), and yes, there are actual overshoots on the thermometer not just the screen (not the 30 on screen). A power meter that goes back and forth like it's on meth, and to reign everything you need to lower Kd to insanely low numbers to get it to start behaving. Note that's it's the same hardware, nothing changed expect for the firmware.

If you decide that you have spent enough time with the project and is happy with the performance of your unit, do move on to other projects with the best of luck and wishes. But if want to keep working on the firmware, please be more patient and respectable to your testers, at the end of the day no one here - including myself - expect you to fine tune his individual unit, but when more than one person with different hardware start reporting the same issues, you might want to start taking their feedback more seriously.

[DavidAlfa]

I know JBC works great. It's not a miracle, JBC tips are much easier to control than these crappy T12s.
You only need a capable power supply, the rest is plain easy.

I remember that part. I was getting complains due little oscillations in some devices. And see, it would have been better to not have touched it.
But this is the everyday trial and error.
I don't thing github ticket system would do better. After all, the message depends on who writes it. So it would be the same there and in the forum.
Anyone could flood github with silly feature requests, too.

People should be more self-capable, I can't fix every station out there.
You should always have taken note of the good one, and know the filter/pid/pwm values you were using.
If the next build, or the next 20 are wrong, the menu is there, the first step is to compare the settings and restore them if different.
Then, instead writing a hell of comments, report a concise report. Some people did great, it helps a lot.
- The problem
- Works restoring older settings? What happens when retoring them?
- Last version that did ok. Flash that version, test it and make sure it's true. A "maybe" will waste a lot of my time.
- Keep it clean.

I will wait for more feedback. Ensure to report the last version that worked ok. Always fully reset the station and try.
No need to calibrate everytime, just restore the tip calibration values.
Don't report bugs from older builds.

[Tugo]

Ksger user (David knows that  ):
I don't see any oscillation and I never saw it. But I must tell you that I didn't check all of my tips, I am using the one that I had the most problems with.
From 6th (or 5th) of July when you made a build that put everthing upside down (at least for me) I didn't have any problems.
But I followed your advise about PID settings. I didn't follow your advise about IRON settings (period, delay) and I still don't see anything better with those settings BUT!!!! I have to do a complete testing from the start which I didn't and I just used my old settings with your/mine period and delay to compare them.

I tested with 11th of Aug build, 4b from August (didn't test others in between) and i case you need me to test them about oscillation, please let me know.
Using my bad chinese K tip, FW from 2021-08-11, PID settings 100-30-10 with Imax 0.4 I don't see anything different in compared to older builds.
I also set PID to 100-60-20 and was ok.
On lower temperatures (for example 270) and coming from room temperature I see some overshoot (sometimes to 10, sometimes to 20, but only for a second or 2) on the soldering station. Tip is actually way lower and needs quite some seconds to get to desired temperature. On the graph I can see that power and temperature are stable even before the end of the tip is getting to desired value (on all temperatures 270-450C).
On 200/20 (period/delay) I see a little bit more power jumping (not really on the end of the tip!). On the 100/1 I see a little bit less or pretty much no jumping at all (again no differences at the end of the tip).
Measuring time to get to 350 C from "zero" it makes no difference on the same PID setting (compared 200/20 and 100/1 - period/delay).
I didn't test it long enough but I never got any problems.

To sum it up: I don't see any differences in old or new FW versions about stability or oscillations. My KSGER have no problems after 6th of July  .

David, if you have some specific test that I can do please let me know.

[tatel]

David, I was sure you wouldn't go away, even after being directly challenged to put your own words into practice. So could you please spare those pathetic shows? All you need is to say "I need a break"

If you want people collaborating, you must put your contempt two meters under ground and keep it there, even if you feel the comment/suggestion/report implies criticism of your work. Remember, those collaborators are doing it for free, too. I see it's a lot easier to ask for a new feature than to warn about some regression. That's your ego at work

So you have been warned by two different persons that the system is, from some days ago, quite a lot less stable than it was a week ago, and all you did was to show contempt. Then you were provided with the pictures to demonstrate it and a FW version that does it right. Then you choosed to ignore the report, answering wickated comment instead. That's your ego at work, again. Time for banderillas de fuego.

Now you are instructing people what to do to report a bug in your code, like if that info was never been provided to you in this case. All wrapped in a whole mountain of chinese cheap hardware mumbo-jumbo. But at least you are now doing the right thing: to revert git commits until the turd surfaces out.

Cuboy is right, we are all humans and errors can happen. What matters is what we do to amend those mistakes. I don't see any amend in your last posts. Contempt clearly is there again, now that your ego got somewhat massaged. You really need it, it isn't? Qué pobre hombre.

So I can only assume this project is flawed. And, if your statements aren't pure bullshit, it looks like I probably got lucky and to get a better working firmware on my station is impossible, since you say I got what I got because of some very unlikely astral conjuction of Saturn with Uranus, firmware and chinese hardware. Not that I think you're getting it right, but... in that case... then why should I waste my time collaborating with a toddler who mainly shows contempt to any criticism?

Anyway 2021-08-02a does all I need it to do, and I think it will do in the foreseable future too. No juju in electronics, wizard.

My collaboration -and this argument- ends here. But I'm not leaving. I will keep one eye here, and will happily download any new version, should it be better than 2021-08-02a. I'll probably be cloning your repository, too, just in case you throw another temper tantrum and delete some code (again). Then I would put it again on GitHub for the people to download/fork

Good luck guys

[DavidAlfa]

Wanna keep it just in case I delete my own code? Here it goes the drama again.
I never felt that pid working right, so why to keep it?
The current pid has been used 99% of the time, I'm just removing problem sources and simplifying things out, I was tired of going back and forth.
Do whatever you want, this is open source.
For sure you know how git works, drama(2), anyone can recover that code at any moment by checking the git log, which I usually document very well.

[tatel]

Drama is when you throw a tantrum, and anounce you deleted some code forever. Now this is stupidity. I already got it cloned and I can do it again no matter the reason why. Argument ended on my previous post. All people here has seen what happened. So you can keep masturbating as long as you need it. Not my problem any more.

Now I'm going to socialize a little bit. I have a life!

[Cuboy]

We need changes, this can't be ongoing.

If you keep this out of context, we won't advance anymore. This thread should be about technical discussions, testing, and feedback. Personal comments and opinions about each other are out of context. And those shouldn't be tolerated.
I don't really care about social life, personal events, or whatever, I'm here to try and contribute to a project I find interesting, that's it.

Then again, please, keep out all these personal comments because this wasn't what this thread was intended for.
Any help with stations, suggestions, any feedback, or technical discussion will be accepted, but not that bullshit we are dealing with right now.

[ricktendo]

One minor feature re-request, long press in menu goes back vs exit.

[Cuboy]

One minor feature re-request, long press in menu goes back vs exit.

Hello, I haven't understood it correctly, so when long-press in the menu it shuts down the station? instead of going to the temperature display

Seems like a good idea

[DavidAlfa]

Cuboy, he means going back to the previous menu/screen, instead exiting the menu.

It's impossible to make it for everyone's liking, so I hope you understand why I won't do that.
You can go back easily, it's always the last option, so simply scroll down.
Needing to go back 3 times to exit the menu is a lot more annoying, so it's way better like it is now.

[StephenR0]

I don't mean to pile on here, but I do like it as it is.  I'm pretty used to the current behavior. 

[mastershake]

i agree i honestly prefer it the way it is im fine with using the exit option.

[ygi]

The only usability feature I'd like to see is when turning the encoder fast, I want it to make bigger steps for numerical values. Ie: if I turn the encoder at less than 5 clicks/sec then it increases by 1. If it's faster than that, then it increases by 10. IMO, it would help a lot when manually entering calibration values.

[DavidAlfa]

That already exist, read the manual.

[Cuboy]

That already exist, read the manual.

I was scrolling through the code and saw commit 3f0f705 had a data->big_step on system_screen.c

Thanks.

[DavidAlfa]

Read the *** operation guide .
I really hate those silly questions everytime because lazy people don't want to read!
Rotate while pressed to use big step.

[Cuboy]

Read the *** operation guide

I see it  .

While editing the widget, normal rotation will make fine adjustement. Click and rotate will do coarse adjustment.


Also, for temperature it doesn't work
Isn't there a way to detect if the know is rotating faster or slower? like counting the number of rotations made in a second?

I saw the error, will make edit and make a pr just so i feel i contributed 

[DavidAlfa]

Everything could be done.
It actually counts the steps, but the system is so fast that you'll hardly make steps faster, so it'll mostly read every step as it happens.
You should know that click and rotate is used for other functions in the main screen, that's just extra hassle for nothing.
Nope, not going to break my head with that

I'm still waiting! Remember is up to you, the firmware will remain as it is until I get proper feedback of what versions worked better.
Some people doing drama, deciding to go away, should realize they're hurting themselves, I don't need help for fixing my own for my own station, and I don't care about bugs for features I don't use (That's why these bugs happen), it's them who aren't going to get any fixes

[ygi]

Read the *** operation guide .
I really hate those silly questions everytime because lazy people don't want to read!
Rotate while pressed to use big step.

My bad, I skipped that line it while reading through it for the 3rd or 4th time but I'm glad the feature was already there so thanks for that.
Gotta say though, if I could blow as much hot air as you do on a regular basis, I wouldn't need a soldering station.

[DavidAlfa]

I edited the message because I thought it would look like me being angry. Not that, I'm just a little tough, specially when I have to lose my time: once to write the readme, manual, FAQ... And then each time someone doesn't give a  *** about them and keeps asking because it's easier .

Sometimes I just repeat the same thing for 471849th time, while others I use the RTFM (read the fu*** manual) quote, it has existed since the beginning of the times, it seems the problem is nothing new

Yep, sometimes I don't need to power on the soldering station. Some hard words and it'll heat up by itself

[Cuboy]

I edited the message because I thought it would look like me being angry. Not that, I'm just a little tough, specially when I have to lose my time: once to write the readme, manual, FAQ... And then each time someone doesn't give a  *** about them and keeps asking because it's easier .

Sometimes I just repeat the same thing for 471849th time, while others I use the RTFM (read the fu*** manual) quote, it has existed since the beginning of the times, it seems the problem is nothing new

Yep, sometimes I don't need to power on the soldering station. Some hard words and it'll heat up by itself

I have a question, im trying to add big steps for temperature screen, so when click+rotation is done, it makes a big step. This time not for widgets but for temperature.

Where do you deal with that?