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I find it amusing that people look at this deal and find all sorts of things to complain about. Green board, $5 free shipping. Where's the beef? Personally I like black or red but for $5, I'm ecstatic about green. Heck, I could love pink on those terms...
I put a board through yesterday. Green, free shipping. At checkout they dinged me for $0.49 to use paypal. Gasp! They lied! String them up.
I'm queueing up a couple more boards to fire off if this works. I'm insanely happy to have such a low cost deal, assuming the quality is decent (and I expect it will). If they are unusable, I'll skip a couple of cups of coffee to make up for it.
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#26 Reply
Posted by
sleemanj
on 31 Oct, 2017 22:43
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Anybody know do they accept diy tab-route (mousebite) for a single PCB, or does that cost extra.
Ie, if I submit this 50x50, will that go through for the $5 as a "single design" or would they call it a panel and charge more.
(DirtyPCBs it's fine to do this for the protopacks FWIW)
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I'd try and see, but i suspect you'll get some charges applied.
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#28 Reply
Posted by
wraper
on 31 Oct, 2017 23:12
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Anybody know do they accept diy tab-route (mousebite) for a single PCB, or does that cost extra.
Ie, if I submit this 50x50, will that go through for the $5 as a "single design" or would they call it a panel and charge more.
(DirtyPCBs it's fine to do this for the protopacks FWIW)
Most likely you'll pay more than for ordering these PCBs separately. No chance it will remain $5.
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yup, the 1 deisng on 100x100 for 10pces is $5 2 designs is $37, and 4 is $49.00
If you really want to exploit this, spin this in a differnet direction.. Panelise the same pcb on the 100x100 panel. Looks like you'd get 4 of some, etc.
you could then get 40 or 50 of the same pcb, for $5! shipped.
the pricing of these $5 boards is entirely promotional to get you to try out the service. But you can't use that as a basis for negoiating a deal on 5000!
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#30 Reply
Posted by
fcb
on 02 Nov, 2017 15:30
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I just got some boards through from ALLPCB.
Qty: 10, 55x40mm, standard green/white/1.6mm PTH, I have to say these are pretty good - and very impressed with their service (placed order @ 1230hrs on 29th October (a Sunday!) and TNT just delivered them (1500hrs on 2nd November) - for $5.49
They are obviously making a loss on these, but I'd be happy to place some test production orders with them on this basis, help support this great prototype service. My only criticisms are:
1. Material looks like TG130, be nice to have a TG140/170 option.
2. Their online production tracking is in Chinese and doesn't work - mainly a confidence thing for me.
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1. Material looks like TG130, be nice to have a TG140/170 option.
Its KB6160A TG130. Not so much of an issue if you are using Lead based solder. Once you start hitting 260C for lead free, you might be pushing things. I've been very sucessfully using it with our Vapour phase system. No problems there. But i agree, it woudl be nice.
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I just got back a small PCB from them. Looked pretty good though there was a slight misalignment off the drills. Not terrible and for 5.50 (half a buck paypal surcharge) delivered, I can live with it. Time from order placed to boards in hand was 5 days.
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#33 Reply
Posted by
invzim
on 06 Nov, 2017 18:54
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Grabbed the opportunity with free shipping and did a respin of a design I'm working on. 4 Layer board, ordered 10 - got 15 - need 2..
Quality is ok, about the same as pcbway I would say. The soldermask alignment is good, but they won't do soldermask on 0.5mm pitch. They did include it on a 0.65mm pitch part though. The HASL seems a hair thick, but nothing unworkable - and for the price it can't be beat.
Pictures:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/a2ZYza3SxlUgftHG3
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I've since done 3 more boards through them and they all came back acceptable. In fact, drill alignment seems much better than the first one.
One thing to note, the default HASL is not lead free. If you pick lead free HASL, price goes up. So, Lead Free isn't free...
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Quality is ok, about the same as pcbway I would say. The soldermask alignment is good, but they won't do soldermask on 0.5mm pitch. They did include it on a 0.65mm pitch part though. The HASL seems a hair thick, but nothing unworkable - and for the price it can't be beat.
HASL is always a bit variable, I largely just use ENIG these days, though they are offering OSP as an option.. Both OSP and ENIG are pretty flat. The real reason i use ENIG Is not because it doe'snt corrode as much, but its becuase its super flat, and since i place a LOT of QFN packages, flat is critical.
Solder mask 'slivers' less than 0.18mm become quite unreliable. On your .5mm pitch, you have .~25 mm for the pins, you need about .10 clearnance between the edge of the pad and the mask.. THat leaves you a gap of about .15mm between pins. Just not enough space between the pins.. Some manufacturers will do it, but you risk, that the mask comes away from teh board during reflow, and you get this sliver of mask floating around all over the place.
With good technique of stencil printing this is not a problem, you'll not get bridging, and if you are hand soldering again good technique ( and good flux ) makes it not really a probem.
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#36 Reply
Posted by
harry4516
on 10 Nov, 2017 00:41
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just got my first delivery of 10pcs for $5. Delivery time was only 5 days from online order to arrival with DHL express.
How can they do that without charging shipping costs, great job.
PCB quality is fine, the board is running already, no problems.
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And i just had an order ship with 'free' shipping. ( actually it was just a discount of $24.00 shipping ) as it was quite a lot of stuff.. 4 layer boards ordered on Sat last last week, arrived today.
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#38 Reply
Posted by
sleemanj
on 16 Nov, 2017 10:06
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#39 Reply
Posted by
soubitos
on 16 Nov, 2017 10:15
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Depending on the country, does DHL charge any extra processing fees (something you have to pay when the item arrives) or is it all covered by the free postage?
DHL does not charge anything extra, but you may have to pay import duties, depending on your country.
Here in Greece if i get a package outside EU with DHL i will be called to pay close to 80 euro "fee" and on top of that any potential taxes. The same package delivered by for example China Post or Post in general IF worth over 40something euro, will cost 15 euro as fee plus taxes.... thanks but no thanks.... my poison of choice if i need something that fast would be EMS
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#40 Reply
Posted by
Rerouter
on 16 Nov, 2017 10:54
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Awaiting my boards, ordered sunday night, shipped Tuesday night, and passed through Australian customs today, hopefully i will see it tomorrow and can break it down, so far even without free shipping that turnaround time has caught my attention, I cant even get a local board house to do that for under $200,
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Two orders arrived this weeks from Allpcb with the free shipping. Yes its too good to last for ages, but its great while it does, and the product is pretty good and they have been consistently fast. Sadly they just were a bit agreesivee with their marketing. Hope they get to come back.
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#42 Reply
Posted by
soubitos
on 17 Nov, 2017 08:37
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Anybody know do they accept diy tab-route (mousebite) for a single PCB, or does that cost extra.
Would some other company accept this as a single pcb?
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#43 Reply
Posted by
sleemanj
on 17 Nov, 2017 10:02
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Anybody know do they accept diy tab-route (mousebite) for a single PCB, or does that cost extra.
Would some other company accept this as a single pcb?
DirtyPCBs, for 2 layer boards.
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#44 Reply
Posted by
tszaboo
on 17 Nov, 2017 10:41
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Yeah, its awesome. Just the fine print is that its 'free' up to 1kg on DHL to *most* countrys.. And if its more than 1kg, they are discounting the shipping by $24 per shipment.
This means you can get 10 100x100mm 2 layer pcbs, for USD$5 delivered in about a week. Thats great value.
And totally unsustainable...
They offer free DHL shipping, and 5 dollar manufacturing???
OK, I'm going to test them. Not the DHL part though, as I got extra processing fees with DHL in tha past, and never with HK post.
They charge extra .5 dollar "paypal fee" on a 5 dollar order. Still cheaper than ordering a pizza.
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#45 Reply
Posted by
Rerouter
on 17 Nov, 2017 11:25
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got my batch of boards this morning, so a 5 day turnaround, looking very good,
I'll whip the old camera out tomorrow, but for now i'll run down the basics,
Pad adhesion - normal soldering, even holding the iron in place at 350C for 30 seconds does not effect it, but rotational forces while hot can cause the pad to slide while still being adhered while cold, I only noticed this on an 0603 pad, however it appears its slightly weaker than say a recent Itead board, Possibly a concern for hacked together projects,
Hole registration is fine on 0.3mm hole, 0.6mm pad vias, the tenting has voids on a small fraction, but no copper is ever exposed.
plated hole wall thickness is slightly thicker than 0.5oz, at-least by material mass, uniformity on this kind of aspect ration is good, no signs of plugging or partial voids. the material is bonded in the holes far stronger than it is bonded to the board itself, likely due to the increased surface area.
Silk screen is readable, but slightly distorted on 0.5/0.5mm text,
Edge routing shows that they internally use mouse-bites on a 2mm routing bit, the bumps were filed, but not filed flush, for the price I don't mind, but something to be aware of it you need exact dimensions.
solder mask was expanded out to roughly 0.1mm expansion around both 0.5mm QFN package pins, and 0.65mm MSOP packages,
The 1.6mm board material appears to have an Er of about 4.3,
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1: What is the real 2-layer "on sale" service PCB thickness (or options if there are any options for this for the 2-L sale price)? I guess (the only?) one is "near" 1.6mm thick, but if anyone has a more specific number that would be helpful (transmission line calculations). I guess they use just a single double sided clad core with no prepreg? Or no?
just measured the ones i have got sitting on my desk, and they were all in teh range 1.57 - 1.60 mm. I'm guessing there is a bit of variation between sheets.
4: Do they specify what specific size tools are available in their drill rack?
The smallest size drills are 0.3mm, and they go up in 0.05 steps to 0.6, then 0.1mm steps to 2.00 I'll double check now its a good question,
5: Do they allow routed areas interior to the PCB for larger holes / slots / polygons / whatever?
yes
6: Do they allow castellations to be made along the outside edge of the PCB?
Yes, but not on the $5 boards.
7: What issues if any have caused your orders to be held / rejected / price increased / whatever? DFM? Drawing format / content / packaging? Gerber generation formats / settings? ...?
i rarely get a problem now, but i've got my DRC rules well tuned.
- holes / vias too small
- Spacing or tracks smaller than the design rules.
- solder mask silver issues.. ( mask width less than 0.18mm )
They are pretty good at checking, and will pick up things like 'antenna' traces ( a trace just going nowhere ).. If you've got one of those you need to tell them, other wise they will come back and query it. They will also query things that look plain odd, ( for example if you had a trace that looked like a short circuit.. ( this could happen because you'd accidently merged a couple of layers in your gerbers ). This is one of the things that i quite like about them, they do in general take some time to tryu to make sure you get what you intended. What is tricky sometimes is understanding the explainations that they give you.
Thanks!
1. Material looks like TG130, be nice to have a TG140/170 option.
Its KB6160A TG130. Not so much of an issue if you are using Lead based solder. Once you start hitting 260C for lead free, you might be pushing things. I've been very sucessfully using it with our Vapour phase system. No problems there. But i agree, it woudl be nice.
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#47 Reply
Posted by
sleemanj
on 21 Nov, 2017 08:40
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It is worth noting that even just silk-separated designs (not routed, not scored, just silk) are still counted as separate designs according to All PCB ("wendy1598" on reddit), eg this 50x50 with only silk separating would be counted as 2 designs ("PCB Kinds"), which blows the price up quite a lot (significantly more than just making 3 separate orders of 10pcs)
If you're a small-time-producer of small boards don't just go assuming that "buy more costs less", I assume they manufacturer in certain minimum numbers which causes the pricing variability with the sweet-spots at 10 (must be artificially discounted), 50, 100 and 150 pieces
Amortised prices for 50x50 including DHL where it wasn't free (to NZ)
5 = 100 cents
10 = 50c
15 = 113c
20 = 85c
25 = 80c
30 = 67c
40 = 60c
50 = 54c
75 = 60c
100 = 45c
125 = 48c
150 = 45c
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Mm DHL has been free for me to nz. Not sure if things have changed
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#49 Reply
Posted by
sleemanj
on 21 Nov, 2017 09:53
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Sorry I meant "where it wasn't free for the quantity ordered (being shipped to NZ)"
Once you hit a certain quantity (err, 75 from memory) they start charging for shipping again.