Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Shock]

Depends what their plans are and which tools they want to keep going forward. Their product line up may not necessarily stop at the MBT360 and it's not called the MBT450 which sort of indicates there may be another product to come, I have no evidence of this though other than a hunch.

The common tweezer tips, vacuum tips and soldering tips aren't so expensive to migrate over unless you have the whole range but some of the more exotic removal tips are. So this as well gives customers an upgrade path to keep their Sensatemp handpieces. They are still selling new PRC2000 systems anyway which are all Sensatemp, and there is nothing else to replace that system on the market. If we see an Accudrive version of a Sensatemp tool it becomes a bit more obvious.

[tooki]

Sure, but being common in NATO defense contracts is essentially the same thing, riding off of the largesse of a captive market. Anyway, they should advertise louder that the MBT350/360/301 series have both vacuum AND hot air pump capability. It's not obvious -- makes the $$ a lot easier to bear. Probably worth picking up.

It’s not a hot air rework station, though. Like all the predecessors, the Thermo-Jet handpiece is a precision hot air tool with a tiny nozzle suitable for hot air soldering, but not desoldering.

It's unclear to me why they couldn't have upgraded all of the old tools to accudrive or have some sort of combo port like they were able to do previously. Keeping an old protocol on one channel doesn't give me a lot of confidence in them upgrading the air-based tools to accudrive.

Both of those are easy to answer:
1. Why not AccuDrive? The whole point of AccuDrive, as far as has been stated publicly, is that it doesn’t need calibration, i.e. that it’s got precision thermal management. With vacuum desoldering tips, it’s physically impossible to put the temperature sensor at the very end of the tip, as you do in precision soldering tips. So you simply can’t have quite as accurate temperature control as with soldering tips. This eliminates any advantage AccuDrive would have over SensaTemp. (Remember that other than the TD100, ALL “IntelliHeat” handpieces are still using SensaTemp control, just in a different connector together with HeatWise.) Other than marketing (to people like you who think newer must always be better) there’s zero advantage in migrating the hot air stuff to AccuDrive control, since hot air is inherently extremely imprecise in regards to temperature control.
2. A newer combo connector would mean having three different control systems within one connector. That’s more pins, more circuitry, and thus more cost, all for little practical advantage.

[tooki]

Sure, but being common in NATO defense contracts is essentially the same thing, riding off of the largesse of a captive market.

Oh, honey… you do realize Switzerland isn’t a NATO member, right, and thus not party to NATO purchasing contracts? (Nor is civilian aerospace, where Pace is also well represented.) Nonetheless, here we are, with Pace quite popular in those industries here.

It’s almost as though Pace is purchased because of the robustness, reliability, and long parts and service availability, and not because of made-up explanations of contractual “buy USA” nonsense.

And it’s not as though Pace is any more expensive than its competitors. JBC, Weller, Ersa, Hakko, Metcal, etc. are all equally expensive, often more.

[helius]

(Remember that other than the TD100, ALL “IntelliHeat” handpieces are still using SensaTemp control, just in a different connector together with HeatWise.)

TD100 + MT100 + TP100.

the Thermo-Jet handpiece is a precision hot air tool with a tiny nozzle suitable for hot air soldering, but not desoldering.

It can desolder small SMDs up to SOICs. The main limitations are the power (51 W) and air flow (8 lpm). It should be obvious that is not sufficient for (e.g.) BGA rework, but that's not the point.

[Shock]

The Thermojets are mentioned in the Pace catalog. I think they are becoming more useful with smaller pcbs and recently smaller preheaters becoming a thing.

I've noticed the TJ70 has better workflow compared to a hot air station, no heating/cooling cycle, easier to rack in the stand and change hot tips over. But yes it's totally at the other end of the spectrum to a full BGA rework station. A non profile controlled hot air station that is BGA capable would sit somewhere in the middle for me.

They are sort of like tweezers in that regard, you don't need them necessarily for "one offs" but going in multiple times or swapping tips on hot air to remove something smaller is quite painful.

[Hydrawerk]

My ADS200 cartridge stand is finished.

[grantb5]

The cushioned landing is a nice touch.

[Shock]

Yeah great idea, you can just pull and dump em.

[Hydrawerk]

Accudrive soldering cartridges for the ADS200 station are now hard to buy. Lead time is long. Most of them are sold out on Farnell. https://de.farnell.com/w/search/prl/ergebnisse/2?ost=accudrive&produktpalette=accudrive-blue
I think that NATO and US Army is buying a lot of them nowadays.

[Hydrawerk]

On 15. 5. 2022 I ordered 4 Accudrive cartridges. I was getting an email with a delay announcement every week. I have attached some of them. According to the last email (not attached to this post), three cartridges will be delivered in this week. One last cartridge delivery time is unknown. 

JBC cartridges are easier to buy nowadays, but they are expensive as expected.

[ataradov]

It probably depends on location a lot. I have no problems getting ADS-200 tips from TestEquity (https://www.testequity.com/category/Electronic-Production-Supplies/Solder-And-Desolder/Solder-And-Desolder-Tips/Solder-Tips).  I have not checked what is there and what is not, but they have all the tips I use in stock.

[darik]

I still think something is wacky with the Pace control loop though. I tried again with a high thermal load and a current clamp and it just doesn't put out more power when the temperature drops, very similar to in Dave's video #1106. 

Did you try straight dipping just the tip in cold water? Not sure if anyone here has tried that. If you do that and it does not hit 90W+ continuous then there is something screwy.
I can see it not hitting 120W continuous due to dead time requirements of measuring the thermocouple, but any dead time more than 10% is questionable. Looking at the mbless schematic, they have some capacitance at the input of the thermocouple amplifier (C35), as well as a lack of clipping diodes, but I can't see this being HW limitation, that would be a serious oversight.

Metcal will sit at ~90W and Hakko T12 at 50-55W in terms of input power, with the top ~3mm of the tip submerged in water. JBC should as well, as yours and Daves testing showed.

So I know this is from a year ago but it doesn't look like anyone ever tried this water test and posted results. I've been curious since this was brought up so I finally got around to it yesterday with my ADS200 and a Kill-A-Watt and it hovered in the 89-92W range.

[Hydrawerk]

4 cartridges were ordered on 15. 05. 2022 and 3 of them were delivered on 04. 08. 2022. They are OK and working. The 25mm flat blade will be delivered much later probably. 

[Hydrawerk]

I sent an email to Farnell support on 14/08/2022:

Subject: delayed delivery
Query: Dear sir or madam, I would like to ask when this https://cz.farnell.com/en-CZ/pace/1130-0532-p1/soldering-tip-flat-blade-25mm/dp/3023191
will be delivered to me. The order was placed on 15. 05. 2022. The order number is XXXYYY. Is there a problem with the manufacturer? I can wait a few months when necessary.
Thank you.

They answered on 15/08/2022:

Dear Customer,
I am sorry about the delay
I have requested our warehouse to check the lead time and will let you know once I have any information
Best Regards,

Now it is 28/08/2022 and there is still no reply from them. The flat blade tips from PACE are impossible to buy nowadays.  The customer support from Farnell is OK, but PACE does not deliver flat blade or special soldering tips.

The 1130-0532-p1 is still back ordered but nothing is happening. Please see attached picture.

[Hydrawerk]

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/1130-0503-P1/Tips/
The 1130-0503-P1 tip is out of stock even at Tequipment from USA! In fact most special tips are out of stock! Please see attached picture.
https://www.tequipment.net/product-comparison/?Items=698224,698225,698226,698234,664164
What is going on??

[Hydrawerk]

Well, if you want a soldering station with a big range od tips available today, then you should probably buy a JBC soldering station for the C245 cartridge range. https://www.jbctools.com/c245-long-life-cartridge-range-product-19-design-iron.html
Many tips are on stock at TME.eu. Please see attached picture with some flat blade (=shovel) soldering tips.

[Shock]

Call or email Pace or the distributor, it's all you can do. If Pace has stock the distributors are probably not putting proper orders in, having shipping delays or have improper minimum stock or ordering levels set, so nothing happens.

Specifically with consumables and stations, they often are initially sold together. So if one or the other are out of stock, it slows down sales. Newer products suffer from this, JBC has had two products fail to launch recently. No company is immune from logistic issues, especially during an economic/health crisis.

[jduncan]

Where can I get a replacement sponge, anyone know?

[Hydrawerk]

Buy any soldering iron sponge and cut the rectangle hole when the sponge is new and not wet yet.

[Shock]

Replacement sponges P/N 4021-0013-P3 three pack.

https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/4021-0013-P3/Soldering-Accessories/

[Hydrawerk]

I contacted PACE via Facebook. I am wondering what to do now. Probably I should buy directly from them, but then I might have to pay an import tax. I live in European Union.

[labjr]

I contacted PACE via Facebook. I am wondering what to do now. Probably I should buy directly from them, but then I might have to pay an import tax. I live in European Union.

Not sure if it would be less expensive for someone in the US to re-ship you the tips, but I'd be willing to help out if you're stuck.     

[Hydrawerk]

Are you an distributor or do you work at PACE?

[labjr]

Are you an distributor or do you work at PACE?

No, I was just wondering if it was less expensive to have someone re-ship from the US.

[Hydrawerk]

I did nothing. Farnell sent me an email. The 1130-0532-P1 Accudrive tip might be delivered on 24. 10. 2022. We will see. The order was placed on 15. 05. 2022.