Pace ADS200 soldering station

[Hydrawerk]

It depends on what you are going to solder. ADS200 has many advantages over the Hakko FX888D. There is a short tip to fingers distance for example.

[Shock]

Question:  Has anyone here ever gone from a Hakko FX888D to a Pace ADS200 and concluded that their life improved, or at least their soldering results or their soldering skills improved noticeably?

I've been soldering for several decades, have a bunch of gear (including several Hakko) and the Pace ADS200 makes everything faster and easier for me. There are strong indicators that moving to better tools allows you to advance your skill, but you still have to make a concerted effort to improve no matter what tool you use.

The biggest distraction is being lured in by soldering station gimmicks like fancy displays, usb connectivity and software menus. They unfortunately will not help you produce better soldering results. You are soon left with the important stuff like how fast it heats up and how fast you can change the temperature or tip. Then it's how long the tips last and how much they cost to replace.

[Hydrawerk]

Somebody might prefer a JBC soldering station like CD-2BQF with a T245 handle. It looks more modern. Changing cartridges is even faster. I use an old JBC AM station with a T245 handle at work.
But basic JBC cartridges are twice the price of PACE ADS200 cartridges. (It might depend on the country where you live. There might even be a ban on USA products in your country or so.)
17USD https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/C245067/Tips/?search=true
41USD https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/1130-0035-P1/Tips/

https://www.jbctools.com/cdb-soldering-product-1605.html
I am not a fan of graphic LCDs but they might work well for 10 or more years.

[Hydrawerk]

On the other hand, PACE ADS200 special soldering tips are more expensive than JBC C245 series.
A 10mm blade:
53USD  https://www.tequipment.net/JBC/C245914/Tips/

83USD  https://www.tequipment.net/Pace/1130-0501-P1/Tips/
On the PACE website the price is even higher, 90USD!!
 https://paceworldwide.com/blade-tip-108mm

And I think that thermal performance is better at JBC. Lifespan is OK, I use it at work for lead and lead-free soldering.

If you want to buy many special tips, you might consider JBC.

[Shock]

The prices are all over the place for specialty tips on all brands, you have to look at the exactly what you're buying and compare totals.

I think you will find with the Pace ADS200 on special with half a dozen tips works out approximately half the cost of doing it on the JBC, again depends on region and where you go. If you extend your standard tip range or replace some over time the total cost of ownership gets better and better. The cost difference of a few specialty/rework tips (unless you are going absolutely crazy) becomes less significant to the overall price.

If you are going to invest that much into JBC it makes more sense to save up another few hundred and get the Metcal MX5200 dual channel station. Over time it's cost of ownership also looks more favorable than JBC's, especially if considering another tool.

The JBC CD series are compact designs and integration and expansion is one of it's biggest downsides. They all look a bit oddball when you plug in an extra tool and stand (hunting for the socket at the back each time).

With regards to the JBC tip swapping system, it seems to me flawed. Ejecting them face down riskier for finer tips and no good dropping out tinned tips like that. If you have multiple tips you lose track of them face down.

Racking them immediately avoids all that but if you use the JBC system then rack later or search for which tip is which, you are double handling. I personally think the whole reason they do this is to turn the handpiece off to avoid damage to the station.

Lastly on the subject of small increments in performance, none of this really matters. At lot of focus in youtube videos is given to heating up massive targets with small tips. It's just not best practice, you use a larger tip and appropriate temp or preheating.

However, compared to the Hakko FX888D the cartridge systems from Metcal, Pace and JBC all have double the effective power and their heat up and recovery times are multiple times faster. That is a substantial jump in performance and ease of use due to the speed and cartridge swapping.

So that is more pertinent to Electro Fan's question, hope that helps.

[grantb5]

*INSTANT* set back?  I bought me ADS200 a few years back, including the set back stand. In my case it does not do the set back until a time out period has elapsed and I prefer it that way. Please tell me the INSTANT set back stand can do the same thing. I'm trying to take advantage of the sale for a coworker.

EDIT: Nevermind. I found my original order ($229!) and it was always called the Instant set back stand. 

[Shock]

Instant setback is configurable between 0-240 seconds (instant to 4 minutes delay).

[Hydrawerk]

Shock
Yes, you can set the time.

[Electro Fan]

In summary vs. the Hakko FX888D, the Pace ADS200 is going to:
1. Have a somewhat better User Interface (the 888D is not highly intuitive but once you learn it, it does what's needed).
2. Heat up much faster.
3. Keep the heat more stable at the target temp.
4. Have a better handle with an easier to manage shorter distance to the tip.
5. Set back in a way that preserves/lengthens tip life.
6. Change out tips (with their cartridge) easier and faster.
7. Cost ~3x the 888D by the time several tips are included (closer to 4x if we don't hop on the July sale).

Missing anything?  Thx

PS, can someone PM me the latest EEVblog TEquipment discount code if that's still a thing?  Thanks, EF

[Shock]

A few more things...

All metal design (as opposed to plastic), larger tip range, USA made (not outsourced), can fully hot swap the cartridges without cooling, config is hidden at boot (no accidents), calibration free design, cool running handpiece, intuitive buttons, heavy stand, cheap consumables, comes with silicon pad and tip tool, station will run their nice (but a bit pricey) tweezers. Handpiece compatibility with other Accudrive stations.

Free integrated heater inside every cartridge brought (hehe). But yeah you have to consider there is an extra cost that comes with the integration of the heater and tip.

[Electro Fan]

A few more things...

All metal design (as opposed to plastic), larger tip range, USA made (not outsourced), can fully hot swap the cartridges without cooling, config is hidden at boot (no accidents), calibration free design, cool running handpiece, intuitive buttons, heavy stand, cheap consumables, comes with silicon pad and tip tool, station will run their nice (but a bit pricey) tweezers. Handpiece compatibility with other Accudrive stations.

Free integrated heater inside every cartridge brought (hehe). But yeah you have to consider there is an extra cost that comes with the integration of the heater and tip.

Shock, I love the enthusiasm but to be somewhat objective .....

All metal design (as opposed to plastic) - looks good, sounds good, but the FX888D is plenty durable (although it's still blue and yellow); btw/fwiw, the FX888D is slightly taller (16mm, 120mm vs 104mm) but the FX888D has a smaller footprint than the ADS200 (100mm vs 130mm width and 120mm vs 152mm depth) = about 40% smaller footprint for the FX888D 

larger tip range - this might be debatable, look at the collection of tips for the FX888D, in some shapes/sizes Hakko might offer more choices

USA made (not outsourced) - that is a bonus for people in the U.S.

can fully hot swap the cartridges without cooling - it can hot swap with a tool; with my 1960s pliers I can hot swap a tip on the FX888D, probably not as easily but once you get the process down you don't have to wait to swap tips

config is hidden at boot (no accidents) - not sure how many people if any have ever had a boot accident with FX888D

calibration free design - good if you don't need or want to calibrate but maybe nice if you needed to or wanted to

cool running handpiece - I haven't found this to be an issue with the FX888D

intuitive buttons - ok, no one is going to give this one to Hakko but it's also not that big of a deal once you know how it works

heavy stand - the FX888D stand is plenty heavy (but it's blue and yellow)

cheap consumables - not sure what consumables really matter but FX888D tips are about 1/3 the price of ADS200 tips

comes with silicon pad and tip tool - how much are those worth?  get a pad and a pliers

station will run their nice (but a bit pricey) tweezers - might be interesting if you need a tweezers

Handpiece compatibility with other Accudrive stations - always good when handpieces are compatible with stations

Net, net:  These are somewhere between a push and not really advantages and maybe some disadvantages, and a few modest value adds.  Meanwhile the price is 3-4x.

But, despite all that, for someone who is a pro and solders a lot where time is real money, or maybe for an amateur who works on valuable equipment, or for an enthusiast who just really enjoys soldering, or for someone who is maybe a TEA member - then the ADS200 makes sense.

Having said that, before I admit to a possible TEA affiliation, how do we deal with these?

https://youtu.be/42sa3wkQUIE
- 5 years later and the only explanation is faulty tips?
- given the comments, seems like it wasn't just Mike, others apparently had similar issues

 https://youtu.be/TGaTJmuy21U
- this was only a year ago, and from the comments it also appears that it wasn't just the reviewer who was underwhelmed

Shock, you are a great Ambassador for Pace, and I'd kind of like to give the ADS200 a try but between the price and the issues, to be square, if it wasn't for you and your never ending Pace PR I might have moved on to something else by now.  So give us your best closing argument.    

Thanks, EF

[helius]

5 years ago there were faulty tips. What other explanation is required?
I don't put too much stock in Internet reviews of any product (especially video reviews). The problem is that video creators need to generate clicks for adshare revenue, and so the reviews are really just a form of clickbait. Not always, but it's a good assumption until you get more data. On a random Google search for reviews the odds are even worse, because most top search results are SEO trash sites written in Jakarta.

[Electro Fan]

5 years ago there were faulty tips. What other explanation is required?
I don't put too much stock in Internet reviews of any product (especially video reviews). The problem is that video creators need to generate clicks for adshare revenue, and so the reviews are really just a form of clickbait. Not always, but it's a good assumption until you get more data. On a random Google search for reviews the odds are even worse, because most top search results are SEO trash sites written in Jakarta.

Thanks, helius.  Fair comments and plausible explanation but it would be interesting to know some details of what was faulty.  Tip material, cartridge design or manufacturing, sensor feedback system, firmware?  Lots of reviews with comments and various articles out there but no explanation other than Pace rallied and made it better for high profile users.

But but then we get to the second video.  The reviewer has done his share of reviews on various products and seems like a straight shooter; both the reviewer and some of his commenters didn’t seem like they were getting top notch performance - and that was only about a year ago.

The ADS200 might be great when you get a good one with good tips but to abandon a properly working FX888D and a good tip collection for a new station and tips that will cost 3-4x the original investment there needs to be some Ronald Reagan trust by verify.  Just sayin’

It would be great to hear from some FX888D users who made the switch to a ADS200 and are very happy they did.

[ataradov]

It would be great to hear from some FX888D users who made the switch to a ADS200 and are very happy they did.

I'm one of those users. I'm very happy with the switch. All those items listed above are not a big deal, and both UIs suck.

The biggest thing for me that justified the switch alone is cartridge tips. I'm never going back to using pliers to change the tips.

I've used it since 2018 and the tip I use the most is PACE1130-0035-P1 (Angled MiniWave, 2.11mm). In that time only one tip died. I ordered 5 more of them and I figure they would last me a long time.

I have a number of high thermal capacity tips, which don't get a lot of use, but I've seen no issues with them either.

Overall, I'm not too happy with the variety of the tips. There are a lot of them, but for regular work only 2-3 that are really useful. I really wish there was a better variety on the miniwave side.

I switched when the price was more reasonable - $220. I'm not sure that it is still a good deal at the current price, but I have not evaluated other options either.

[Hydrawerk]

A miniwave / minispoon tip is a must for me. There is probably no such tip at Hakko T18 tip range, that is compatible with FX-888D.
https://hakkousa.com/products/soldering-iron-tips/t18-series.html?p=3

[gnavigator1007]

The ads200 was a significant step up for me from the 888d. The original unit I received acouple years back was faulty, but Pace handled it an an acceptable manner. Never had any tip issues. I ended up buying the tweezers too and while expensive, i think I've gotten my money's worth at this point. I only have the 1 station power source and am kind of tired of switching back and forth between the iron and tweezers. Probably going to pick up another ads200 with this sale, but wish they had just the power source available. I know they usually sell it, but been getting "Access Denied" since the sale started 

[Electro Fan]

It would be great to hear from some FX888D users who made the switch to a ADS200 and are very happy they did.

I'm one of those users. I'm very happy with the switch. All those items listed above are not a big deal, and both UIs suck.

The biggest thing for me that justified the switch alone is cartridge tips. I'm never going back to using pliers to change the tips.

I've used it since 2018 and the tip I use the most is PACE1130-0035-P1 (Angled MiniWave, 2.11mm). In that time only one tip died. I ordered 5 more of them and I figure they would last me a long time.

I have a number of high thermal capacity tips, which don't get a lot of use, but I've seen no issues with them either.

Overall, I'm not too happy with the variety of the tips. There are a lot of them, but for regular work only 2-3 that are really useful. I really wish there was a better variety on the miniwave side.

I switched when the price was more reasonable - $220. I'm not sure that it is still a good deal at the current price, but I have not evaluated other options either.

Now we’re talkin’!

An objective long standing straight talking highly credible EEVer.

And the rest of you guys are pretty good too.

Seriously, thanks to everyone - this is such a great site!!

Special thanks to Shock and ataradov and Happy 4th of July to everyone!

PS, ataradov your feedback has just about nudged me to order the Pace, and thanks for the candid heads-up on the vaunted dramatically superior ADS200 UI.   Fortunately I think my UI skill be up to speed after having trained on the FX888D.   I’m not too worried as I’m guessing most of the solder joints will be made with the tips instead of the buttons.

[Hydrawerk]

Electro Fan
You might consider a JBC station with a T245 handle. You must decide what you need and what you like.

[Electro Fan]

Hydrawerk,

That is a good looking soldering station.  Very nice looking ergonomics.

https://www.testequity.com/product/10001025-CD-1BQF?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpaWU7aj2_wIVkSrUAR0CGw6sEAQYASABEgK-VfD_BwE

[Shock]

What I think happened with SDG. Pace had an extra distribution center in the UK and closed it around the time covid hit (probably not economically viable is my guess), shipping and customs delays were terrible at this time. SDG ordered some of the last stock at Farnell and I suspect somehow he just lucked out and got a dud tip, possibly overlooked from the recall or a mishandled return, who knows.

I have a really solid selection of cartridges and they are all working perfectly. It's not like your warranty ceases to exist and you can always contact them directly.

[Hydrawerk]

Hydrawerk,

That is a good looking soldering station.  Very nice looking ergonomics.
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Well, If you do not like the simple-military look of PACE, you might be happy with a JBC. Thermal performance is very good. The cartridges are very comfortable to change and to turn around in the handpiece.
But there are some drawbacks of CD-1BQF.
The power switch is on the back. The case of JBC CD-1BQF is probably NOT made of aluminium. Temperature cannot be adjusted when the handpiece is in the stand. Handpiece and stand must be kept clean to make good contact or the sleep function will not work. (Marked red on the attached picture.)

[Electro Fan]

Shock, I'm guessing I know what you will say, but just in case.....

What's your opinion on the ADS200 vs an AiXun T3A with a genuine JBC 245-A handle and genuine JBC tips?

I'm standing back.....

[Shock]

Electro Fan, I'd not buy the AiXun T3A as I just don't buy a lot of Chinese stuff, I can count on both hands the amount of Chinese products I've brought in 10 years. Neither am I interested in buying products with cheap Chinese made smps in them. I've watched many smps fail over the years so it's not worth the risk having an unexpected failure mode and something catching fire. I replace most cheap smps with properly specced branded models from my local supplier.

From a logical perspective if put in that situation I'd look at the price difference compared to what comes in the JBC box. Then factor in the risk and cringe against those perceived savings. I'm fairly confidant the smps won't last as long as a transformer. But at the end if you have wasted money you still have the JBC handpiece and stand (if original).

I setup gear either on the shelf or (like currently) the table next to me. Having a detached stand means I can move it closer to the work without dragging the station and power cable. The weight of the station is helpful to prevent it sliding around the table. Rear power switches are no longer a problem, I put in a managed power system a while back to avoid reaching over gear.

[Shock]

Just checked the prices looks like $319 for the ADS200 instant setback version at tequipment.net with free shipping, if the Eevblog 6% code can be stacked perhaps $299.

[bdunham7]

Just checked the prices looks like $319 for the ADS200 instant setback version at tequipment.net with free shipping, if the Eevblog 6% code can be stacked perhaps $299.

I spent a half-hour with their chat person (not a bot but possibly less useful) trying to get that $100 sale applied.  It looks like they fixed it now, but it isn't quite $100 off because TEquipment would discount these a little in the first place--the kit with 3 tips and ISB stand was $462 list and they sold it for $438.  Now it is $362, which is $76 less. 

Still, no complaints because AFAIK nobody else discounts them and perhaps their cost isn't going down the full $100.  Plus they even discount the tips about 5%.  I ordered the no-tips kit for $319, the website did allow me to stack the FREESHIP and (private eevblog code) so it was, in fact, $299.  Two Blue Ultra tips and CA tax came to $360.  Not as cheap as they used to be, but at least it will keep me out of the KSGER repair forums for now!