Author Topic: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope  (Read 68668 times)

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Offline bd139

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #325 on: June 07, 2022, 09:49:56 am »
Their marketing team are clearly of the red fluffy hair and large shoes variety. I hope they can all fit in their tiny car.  :palm:

Now I've seen it in the flesh though, it's one ugly looking thing. Looks more like cheap muso gear.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #326 on: June 07, 2022, 10:12:23 am »
I'm sorry, but to me, shiny membrane keyboards scream kitchen appliance..
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #327 on: June 07, 2022, 10:15:24 am »
It's already on the Tek website! So much for the embargo  :-//
https://www.tek.com/en/products/oscilloscopes/2-series-mso
So now we can see some more details....
Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.
I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:

Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:20:17 am by Someone »
 
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Offline scoper007

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #328 on: June 07, 2022, 10:22:24 am »
Micsig in a hurry  :box:
 
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #329 on: June 07, 2022, 10:26:53 am »
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.

Why would you want to use the VESA mount with either of the stands? That makes no sense  :-//
The metal stand and VESA mount is the best thing about this scope IMO, it's very nicely integrated.
And the battery pack does have the VESA mount extended on the back of it, so they have clearly thought about this.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:29:30 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #330 on: June 07, 2022, 10:32:16 am »
Are we going start a pool on pricing?  :popcorn:

I'll say $3500 USD for the entry level 2-channel, 70Mhz model, rising to about $12000 for fully-loaded 4-channel 350Mhz MSO with all options (probes sold separately...)

Serial decoders? $1200 for RS232/I2C+SPI, another $1200 for CAN.
Battery option? "The price of a Micsig for the adapter+one battery and an extra $250 for each additional battery"
Rubber bumpers? $300
Not far off!
Battery slot + 1 battery $700, extra battery $300.
Case, bumper, kickstand, $300
All serial decodes, $650

2500$ for basic i bet. 12K for fully loaded one? No way. 7K max. Well maybe 500 MHz will bump the price.
There is only one serial bundle and CAN is included according to datasheet.
See below, 2700/10700 scope only, fully loaded $13k....

500MHz probes sold separately even if you order the higher end models! They might be shipping all the boxes to the distributors/retailers with the same hardware config and TPP0200 200MHz probes.

I don't care for this bullshit let's compare it to other 2000 series.. Only comparison is by price.
Yep, misleading comparisons to scopes half the price, thanks Tek + fanboy/booster/influencer Dave
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 10:44:46 am by Someone »
 

Online Hydron

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #331 on: June 07, 2022, 10:36:24 am »
Some cherry picking and outright deliberately misleading omissions in the "Compare" section on the Tek page, though I do like that it has a VESA mount (do the Micsigs?)
 

Offline Someone

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #332 on: June 07, 2022, 10:39:31 am »
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.

Why would you want to use the VESA mount with either of the stands? That makes no sense  :-//
The metal stand and VESA mount is the best thing about this scope IMO, it's very nicely integrated.
And the battery pack does have the VESA mount extended on the back of it, so they have clearly thought about this.
The quote is right there in full, have at it again:
Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.
I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
[picture]
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.
I said it was going to be a set of hard mounting points that would preclude it from being portable if mounted. You said "nah uhh, I know the secret and its awesome". Oh look its not awesome, clever, or anything special. Just a straight out VESA mount that is mutually exclusive with portability.

But you want to argue you were still "right" somehow?

Marketing nonsense it exactly what you used to say you were immune to and would see through, but here you are trying to defend it.
 

Online tv84

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #333 on: June 07, 2022, 10:39:58 am »
It's already on the Tek website! So much for the embargo  :-//
https://www.tek.com/en/products/oscilloscopes/2-series-mso

Dave, it's time for you to update the title of the thread and make it more meaningful regarding the subject in question.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #334 on: June 07, 2022, 10:52:50 am »
I don't care for this bullshit let's compare it to other 2000 series.. Only comparison is by price.
Yep, misleading comparisons to scopes half the price, thanks Tek + fanboy/booster/influencer Dave

Me a Tek fanboy? I absolutely savaged their MDO 3 series scope when it came out, so much so they didn't talk to me again until this.
And I have made absolutely no claims about price or comparisons, other than I said it was on par with the RTB2000 series base price.
The base model 70MHz 2CH version is US$1800 and the 4CH 70MHz is US$2740
The 2CH 70MHz RTB2002 is US$1730 at Tequipment, and US$2400 at Element 14, and the 4CH 70MHz RTB2004 is $2635, exactly on par in pricing as I said.
Yes the extras are expensive, it's Tektronix, only a fool would expect anything less.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #335 on: June 07, 2022, 10:54:37 am »
Dave, it's time for you to update the title of the thread and make it more meaningful regarding the subject in question.

Done.
 
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Online tv84

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #336 on: June 07, 2022, 11:00:28 am »
Taken from the video.
 
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Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #337 on: June 07, 2022, 11:05:07 am »
I see it the same way. Compared to RTB2004. Retail price, no promos etc.
And as with everything, price is a relative thing. For some that is expensive, for some that is pocket money.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #338 on: June 07, 2022, 11:17:38 am »
I keep dreaming they will make a killer entry-level scope for the educational market, but I won't hold my breath, lol.

Killer, entry-level, pick one.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #339 on: June 07, 2022, 11:19:54 am »
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.

Why would you want to use the VESA mount with either of the stands? That makes no sense  :-//
The metal stand and VESA mount is the best thing about this scope IMO, it's very nicely integrated.
And the battery pack does have the VESA mount extended on the back of it, so they have clearly thought about this.
The quote is right there in full, have at it again:
Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.
I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
[picture]
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.
I said it was going to be a set of hard mounting points that would preclude it from being portable if mounted. You said "nah uhh, I know the secret and its awesome". Oh look its not awesome, clever, or anything special. Just a straight out VESA mount that is mutually exclusive with portability.

But you want to argue you were still "right" somehow?
Marketing nonsense it exactly what you used to say you were immune to and would see through, but here you are trying to defend it.

Why all the anger? It's as if you are personally offended that Tektronix didn't make the exact product you demaded at the price you demanded  ::)

You clearly don't understand what's happening here.
VESA mounts are on the back of the scope AND battery pack, so you can mount the scope WITH or WITHOUT the battery pack to EITHER the sexy metal handle stand which has 4 angles of viewing depending on which (very nice) thumb screws you use and which way you orient it. Or you can use the plastic kick stand on EITHER the battery back version or direct on the scope.

You are demonstrably wrong that "Just a straight out VESA mount that is mutually exclusive with portability". Absolutely wrong. I have it here in front of me.

 

Offline Sighound36

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #340 on: June 07, 2022, 11:20:11 am »
Understand what they are trying to acheive here, but as per past Tek launches it fails yet again. Suspect this is aimed at setas of learning and faceless companies that can make a phone to the 35+ years association with their bearded Tek rep circa 1972 and order 50+ bean counters won;t be whinging once the 35%+ discount kicks in for that kind of order. Yawn.
Seeking quality measurement equipment at realistic cost with proper service backup. If you pay peanuts you employ monkeys.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #341 on: June 07, 2022, 11:22:59 am »
I see it the same way. Compared to RTB2004. Retail price, no promos etc.
And as with everything, price is a relative thing. For some that is expensive, for some that is pocket money.

Apart from the educational targeted TBS scopes that almost no one but educational instritutions buy, Tektronix have never offered true entry level prices scopes.
They have clearly targeted in pricing against the RTB2000 and Keysight 2000, as thier product comparison demonstrates:
 
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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #342 on: June 07, 2022, 11:26:30 am »
Aannnnnnd I've gone and lost the battery pack screws  :palm:
 
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Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #343 on: June 07, 2022, 11:33:53 am »
I'm 99% sure that I'll put one on order. It looks perfect for my everyday work.
It feels like an RTB2000 with nice form factor and that is what I'm after.

I was thinking about micsig, and after seeing this, I will also consider getting one privately. (But here I would get cheapest 4channel and pray for someone to crack it  :-DD)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 11:36:05 am by KrzysztofB »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #344 on: June 07, 2022, 11:40:05 am »
Understand what they are trying to acheive here, but as per past Tek launches it fails yet again. Suspect this is aimed at setas of learning and faceless companies that can make a phone to the 35+ years association with their bearded Tek rep circa 1972 and order 50+ bean counters won;t be whinging once the 35%+ discount kicks in for that kind of order. Yawn.

Out of curiosity, in your opinion how does it "fail"? Sounds like it's pricing?
 

Online pdenisowski

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #345 on: June 07, 2022, 11:56:56 am »
They have clearly targeted in pricing against the RTB2000 and Keysight 2000, as thier product comparison demonstrates:

Their product comparison is incorrect regarding trigger types on the RTB2000:  the RTB has a setup and hold trigger (called "Data2Clock"), can trigger on logic patterns, and can also trigger on parallel data. 

I know all this because I'm about to release a few more installments in the "Getting Started with the RTB2000" series on the R&S YouTube channel and in one of the videos I explain how to configure and use all of these triggers  :)

And funny how they didn't include boot time in the comparison with the RTB  .... hmmmm ..... :)

« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 12:00:58 pm by pdenisowski »
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Free online test and measurement fundamentals courses from Rohde & Schwarz:  https://tinyurl.com/mv7a4vb6
 

Offline KrzysztofB

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #346 on: June 07, 2022, 12:00:45 pm »
I know all this because I'm about to release a few more installments in the "Getting Started with the RTB2000" series on the R&S YouTube channel and explain how to configure and use all of these triggers  :)
And funny how they didn't include boot time in the comparison with the RTB  .... hmmmm ..... :)
Looking forward to it  :-+ :-+ :-+
And boot time on RTB.... LOVE IT!

But just out of curiousity, tek distributor told me that long boot on TEK is related with selftesting. How is that in RTB?
 
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Offline Someone

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Re: NEW Next Gen Tektronix Scope
« Reply #347 on: June 07, 2022, 12:02:56 pm »
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.

Why would you want to use the VESA mount with either of the stands? That makes no sense  :-//
The metal stand and VESA mount is the best thing about this scope IMO, it's very nicely integrated.
And the battery pack does have the VESA mount extended on the back of it, so they have clearly thought about this.
The quote is right there in full, have at it again:
Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
We could equally take aim at your blind fanboy/marketing take, VESA mounts are notoriously not seamless for moving between mounted and mobile: "VESA mounting points on rear of instrument" of the standard type that is held in with screws. Perhpas if there were some tidy clip on/off accessory or mount that easily swapped with the battery pack you might have a point (particularly integrating power delivery), but there is nothing to suggest that in the material available.
I think the integral VESA mount is an excellent idea and will be well received. You might be a tad embaressed when you see how well it's all integrated.
And the VESA mount is exactly as expected, just 4 hard screw mounts on the back of the scope shell, which get blocked by attaching other (optionally available for extra charge) stands:
[picture]
Not seamless, not integrated, another checkbox for marketing that although useful is massively overblown/misleading. Not embarrassed at all with my accurate prediction.
I said it was going to be a set of hard mounting points that would preclude it from being portable if mounted. You said "nah uhh, I know the secret and its awesome". Oh look its not awesome, clever, or anything special. Just a straight out VESA mount that is mutually exclusive with portability.

But you want to argue you were still "right" somehow?
Marketing nonsense it exactly what you used to say you were immune to and would see through, but here you are trying to defend it.

Why all the anger? It's as if you are personally offended that Tektronix didn't make the exact product you demaded at the price you demanded  ::)

You clearly don't understand what's happening here.
VESA mounts are on the back of the scope AND battery pack, so you can mount the scope WITH or WITHOUT the battery pack to EITHER the sexy metal handle stand which has 4 angles of viewing depending on which (very nice) thumb screws you use and which way you orient it. Or you can use the plastic kick stand on EITHER the battery back version or direct on the scope.

You are demonstrably wrong that "Just a straight out VESA mount that is mutually exclusive with portability". Absolutely wrong. I have it here in front of me.
You keep making it out to be somehow counter/different to what I said. Its really simple....

there is a VESA mount
it could be attached to a standard monitor arm/stand
or one of their accessories
and is duplicated on the back of the battery pack so you can still use the same accessories when its fitted

.... then its a matter of interpretation. You pushed the marketing nonsense about it, and I quote verbatim:
Name another scope that:
- Moves seamlessly from bench use to portable use, with VESA mount and rack mount option.
It doesn't move seamlessly from bench to portable use, nothing clips on/off in a smooth motion. There is a VESA mount that things can be screwed onto, and to swap mount/position/use you need to unscrew the current mount and then screw on another (or in another position).

1000% not seamless, it looks like a stand is pretty much mandatory to use this scope with (such as the one included that offers different set/mounted angles) which immediately uses up the VESA mount. The stands/configurations are mutually exclusive, you can't pick it up off the tilting mount and have it sit flat. As others pointed out the size/weight of this makes the power cabling and probes a significant force (common to many of these small plastic scopes).

The only thing going for it is that it does have the VESA mounts. But you keep talking like they are more than just a set of dumb threaded holes. A nice feature, but not some ingeniously integrated design wonder that is making me embarrassed for correctly guessing they would be just some holes on the back of the scope.

No anger, just cutting through your fake shutting down of discussion by insisting you are the only voice. The selection of stands is something I see as a negative rather than a positive, they couldn't come up with a coherent design that covers the basic needs so instead offer "choices" that still aren't as practical/functional as the competition. Instead you keep chipping away and insinuating that I was somewhere incorrect, why post this constantly as contrary? We seem to agree on the actual facts, and disagree on your way of pushing them. I'll come back around with you doing again:

I don't care for this bullshit let's compare it to other 2000 series.. Only comparison is by price.
Yep, misleading comparisons to scopes half the price, thanks Tek + fanboy/booster/influencer Dave
Me a Tek fanboy? I absolutely savaged their MDO 3 series scope when it came out, so much so they didn't talk to me again until this.
And I have made absolutely no claims about price or comparisons, other than I said it was on par with the RTB2000 series base price.
The base model 70MHz 2CH version is US$1800 and the 4CH 70MHz is US$2740
The 2CH 70MHz RTB2002 is US$1730 at Tequipment, and US$2400 at Element 14, and the 4CH 70MHz RTB2004 is $2635, exactly on par in pricing as I said.
Yes the extras are expensive, it's Tektronix, only a fool would expect anything less.
and then almost immediately.... right back to making selective comparisons:
I see it the same way. Compared to RTB2004. Retail price, no promos etc.
And as with everything, price is a relative thing. For some that is expensive, for some that is pocket money.
Apart from the educational targeted TBS scopes that almost no one but educational instritutions buy, Tektronix have never offered true entry level prices scopes.
They have clearly targeted in pricing against the RTB2000 and Keysight 2000, as thier product comparison demonstrates:
That's you bringing up the aging Keysight 2000 series, as some desperate strawman. Who really would be thinking of a Keysight 2000 series in light of their 1000 series? Its marketing crap and you know it. Keeping on with that is why I'm calling this out as lazy pushing of the Tek marking points. No analysis, no independent view, regurgitated marketing non-lies (avoiding embarrassing truths).
 

Online Hydron

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #348 on: June 07, 2022, 12:05:51 pm »
They have clearly targeted in pricing against the RTB2000 and Keysight 2000, as thier product comparison demonstrates:

Their product comparison is incorrect regarding trigger types on the RTB2000:  the RTB has a setup and hold trigger (called "Data2Clock"), can trigger on logic patterns, and can also trigger on parallel data. 

I know all this because I'm about to release a few more installments in the "Getting Started with the RTB2000" series on the R&S YouTube channel and in one of the videos I explain how to configure and use all of these triggers  :)

And funny how they didn't include boot time in the comparison with the RTB  .... hmmmm ..... :)
Yeah this sort of thing is was what I was referring to with "Some cherry picking and outright deliberately misleading omissions" in their comparisons - while I don't have experience with the KS 2k series scope, the R&S has: actually 20Mpts max single-capture memory in half-channel mode (plus up to 160 across multiple captures in segmented mode), 10-bit depth etc, all of which is of course omitted as it doesn't make the Tek look good. Though I probably shouldn't just point the finger at Tek, I bet other manufacturers shovel similar BS.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope
« Reply #349 on: June 07, 2022, 12:12:22 pm »
I see it the same way. Compared to RTB2004. Retail price, no promos etc.
And as with everything, price is a relative thing. For some that is expensive, for some that is pocket money.

You seem to be missing the point.. This is not BMW forum where rich kids bulshit about which car is more fancy and they don't care how much it costs "because I'm worth it".. And daddy pays for it...
That thinking is maybe justified for a wealthy hobby user that likes expensive stuff as way of treating itself to a feelgood toys, without a need to make  real work and be cost effective.

For a professional user, price/performance is important, even for places that have no problem buying 250000 USD VNA if they have a business need for it and if it is necessary to do the job...

While this scope is a refreshing thing coming from otherwise very complacent Tek, it is very misguided product in a very Tek way.
They are competing  with RTB2000 and pricing it according to it? Why? RTB2000 itself has an identity crysis, where it is not really selling too well compared to other competitors on the market, so Tek decided to enter another contestant to a scope class that is "not really professional range, but too expensive for hobby market, and less capable than some other less expensive offerings".

I spoke to people on R&S booth some  years ago, and at the boot there were people who could discuss excruciating details about 150000USD VNA, but nobody seemed to know anything about RTB2000 that was standing right there... After a scope expert joined the conversation, he politely and under the voice said to me  that I should take a look at 3000/4000 series or up the range for serious work... He said RTB2000 is nice and all but for professional work a to limited...I actually appreciated honesty and if anything have great respect for them.

This Tek is just that. More form than substance.
And if this scope is good enough for your work, than a Micsig that costs 5-6x less is also good enough. And for the difference in money you buy something else you need. A "any moment to be released" new Siglent SDS2000X HD will be in price range (actually much cheaper as you go up the range) , and has 12Bit resolution, for instance..

And why is Tek (or anybody else for that  matter) even offering 70 MHz anymore...??
 
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