Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B

• #50 Reply
  Posted by rwb on 09 Mar, 2016 07:17
• Yea, I have a 3x4 foot cnc machine and it's using a screw drive.
• #51 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 12:31
• Ok, guys, got a nice shipment from Digikey today and took the opportunity to place some resistors:
  
  https://youtu.be/RjAU077Dsmc
  
  First half with machine speed at 50%, second at 100% (watch table shake...). No vision, obviously.
  
  Had to use double sided tape or the little critters would just fly off. Resistors are 0805, the smallest part we will be using for our current project but I think that at least 0603 would be ok too.
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #52 Reply
  Posted by matseng on 09 Mar, 2016 13:19
• Nice, but the 50% speed seemed so slow that I almost think I can do it by hand and faster :-)
  
  Can you repeat the run at 100% speed and have it use both heads?
  
• #53 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 13:23
• I could but I only have one No. 1 nozzle (the smallest size), the larger nozzles don't work with 0805. 100% is actually not the highest speed, it goes up to 120%...
  
  Regards, Axel
• #54 Reply
  Posted by mikeselectricstuff on 09 Mar, 2016 13:47
• Like the Neoden, looks like the speed setting is dumb and applies to all movements - there's no reason to slow down when there is no part on the nozzle (though probably useful to have the option). 
• #55 Reply
  Posted by mikeselectricstuff on 09 Mar, 2016 13:48
• PS look for clearer double-sided tape, so you can see the pad positions better. I also found that the white stuff I had was a total nightmare to remove.
   
• #56 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 14:12
• Ok, I found that I can use the No. 2 size nozzle with 0805 if I switch off the pressure sensor (probably wouldn't want to do this in a production setting).
  
  Here you go, two nozzles:
  
  https://youtu.be/6SSU50hn_zI
  
  Regards, Axel
• #57 Reply
  Posted by matseng on 09 Mar, 2016 14:36
• Looks like it does 3600 CPH utilizing both heads, no vision and the shortest possible distance between the pcb and the reel.
  I wonder how the setup must look like to get the 7000 CPH they claim in the specs? Crank it up overdrive at 120% will not take you all the way.
  
  http://www.zjyingxing.com/e_products/TVM802A-126.html
  
• #58 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 14:47
• I think it's more like 5000 cph, it does the fiducial recognition before starting to place parts which only has to be done once and after that we get to 1.5parts/sec. or thereabouts. Also, the parts are rotated, that takes time too.
  
  There are a few more arcane settings in the software I didn't explore yet but I think it's safe to say that for all practical purposes the video shows the max. achievable speed. More than fast enough for our purposes, really, but YMMV.
  
  Regards, Axel
• #59 Reply
  Posted by mikeselectricstuff on 09 Mar, 2016 14:49
• Quote from: matseng on 09 Mar, 2016 14:36

  Looks like it does 3600 CPH utilizing both heads, no vision and the shortest possible distance between the pcb and the reel.
  I wonder how the setup must look like to get the 7000 CPH they claim in the specs? Crank it up overdrive at 120% will not take you all the way.
  
  http://www.zjyingxing.com/e_products/TVM802A-126.html
  

  Maybe parts that happen to be placed in pairs spaced apart by the nozzle distance so it doesn't need to move between placements, and a very small PCB right next to the feeder
• #60 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 14:53
• Good point; I'm curious how the parts are exported from the EDA software. Are close together parts exported as pairs? Maybe an Altium or Eagle user can clarify this. The machine's software does no optimization as far as I can see, the parts are picked in order.
  
  Regards, Axel
• #61 Reply
  Posted by matseng on 09 Mar, 2016 14:55
• Looks like it starts the placement @5 seconds and is done @21 so 16 seconds to place 16 parts giving aboutish 3600 cph.
  
  I'd be happy with that speed if I get a PnP some day - then it would only take 20 minutes to populate each my memory pcbs for my (so far only on the drawingboard (and some small real-part tests)) computer made of of discrete transistors and diodes..... Need 128 of them so it will take a while.
• #62 Reply
  Posted by SimonD on 09 Mar, 2016 16:49
• Hi Axel,
  Looks interested machine.
  Have you try with LQFP Package Devices ?
  and if yes, how is the result ?
  
   Thanks !
• #63 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 09 Mar, 2016 17:35
• Not tried. I will try 28 pin TSSOPs with 0.65mm pitch next and report back. That's the highest density which we use in the current project. I did already try SOICs with 1.27mm pitch and they work fine.
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #64 Reply
  Posted by rwb on 10 Mar, 2016 04:38
• Here is a video if this same machine I came across while on Taobao.com
  
  http://cloud.video.taobao.com/play/u/2381895619/e/1/t/3/p/2/32102185.swf
  
  http://world.taobao.com/item/521022603339.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.BsG7LM#detail
  
  The sale page has this machine listed for $2600 and it says it can place .5mm pitch IC parts.
• #65 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 04:53
• That seems to be the manufacturer's page, QiHe. I'm still in the market for a printer and a larger oven, can anyone comment on those offers:
  
  Printer ($260): http://world.taobao.com/item/525291626153.htm
  
  Oven ($1050): http://world.taobao.com/item/525259351947.htm
  
  Addendum: Aha, the devil is in the details. They quote free shipping but only to mainland China. For overseas destinations it's 90yuan/kg (at least for the printer and oven, for the TVM802A it says contact the seller; at 60kg and this rate this would come to Y5,400 = $830)
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #66 Reply
  Posted by thommo on 10 Mar, 2016 05:05
• I'm about to buy one of those Stencil Printers, and as for the Oven, I know that the Neoden guys have discontinued carry it. Can't help with better alternative but i suspect it's very much a matter of getting what you pay for  re the oven.
  
  I'm considering a small conveyor from Torch, but more expensive.
  
  

  Quote from: ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 04:53

  That seems to be the manufacturer's page, QiHe. I'm still in the market for a printer and a larger oven, can anyone comment on those offers:
  
  Printer ($260): http://world.taobao.com/item/525291626153.htm
  
  Oven ($1050): http://world.taobao.com/item/525259351947.htm
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #67 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 05:11
• Quote from: thommo on 10 Mar, 2016 05:05

  i suspect it's very much a matter of getting what you pay for  re the oven.
  

  
  That's what I figured. The printer looks solid to me, with shipping that would come out at $600 or so.
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #68 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 07:00
• Ok, here's a high speed test with optimized part list:
  
  https://youtu.be/4HvR1EBtv18
  
  Speed 100%, hand-made part list where the space in x between parts is exactly the distance between the nozzles. Parts are resistors 0805. Space in y between parts 3mm. No vision, no rotation, no pressure sensor, no fiducial recognition.
  
  Places 50 parts in a little under 50secs which comes out at somewhere obove 3600 cph. With the 120% speed setting we would get to around 4300-4400 cph.
  
  Interesting observation: The nozzle #2 (right) has clearly more consistent placement than #1, it's the bigger size (No. 2). I wonder if that's because it has better grip on the part.
  
  Regards, Axel
• #69 Reply
  Posted by rwb on 10 Mar, 2016 07:04
• Nice little test.
  
  Swap nozzles and see if the effect is the same with the nozzle on the right instead of left.
• #70 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 07:16
• I will. - Apparently the software does some sort of optimization; for the video I had hard coded which nozzle to use; when I leave it to the software (specify nozzle "1/2" rather than "1" or "2"), the machine places the parts column wise, left column first, right column second. This takes a little longer (3-4 secs.).
  
  Regards, Axel
  
  
  
• #71 Reply
  Posted by rwb on 10 Mar, 2016 07:22
• So can you mill out your own custom part trays and have the machine pick parts from those custom trays?
  
  I'm wondering if you can use half your work area for custom part trays if you needed that many parts or if you just run out of feeders.
• #72 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 07:35
• Yes, tried that already and it works as expected. I'll post more about it later today.
  
  You can basically use up the whole space that's not occupied by PCBs; obviously there are some constraints from the rods that guide the PCB holder.
  
  Regards, Axel
  
• #73 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 08:42
• Here's a pic of a sample 3D printed tray.
  
  It has 8 pockets for TSSOP-28 (0.65mm pitch). The little dimples indicate Pin 1 (eventually they will be inlaid with white paint or so).
  
  Note the hole in the center of pocket  #1. Using the down camera I can pinpoint the location of the tray as detailed in this blog post:
  
  http://servokit.com/blog/2016/03/09/tvm802a-coordinate-systems/.
  
  Of course eventually any trays will have to be bolted down, for now it's double-sided tape.
  
  Regards, Axel
  

  ---

  
• #74 Reply
  Posted by ServoKit on 10 Mar, 2016 10:13
• Sample video using custom tray at 35% effective speed.
  
  https://youtu.be/c6dBbCXtRzo
  
  0.65mm pitch, perfect placement, no vision required.
  
  Regards, Axel