I received my DS1074Z-S late last week and have been playing around with it when I have time after work. Quite impressed with it over the DS1052E. Obviously 4 channels is nice to have but the entire look and feel of the scope is nicer. Having a higher resolution and slightly larger LCD screen helps. The update rate is the biggest improvement.
I have taken a couple of quick clips (more to come - needs to be edited and uploaded - 1mbit upload is sloooow)
Boot up time isn't amazingly quick, but it's not unbearably slow either.
Waveform update rate
DS1052E isn't the greatest at capturing the frequency here, as the trigger pulses are quite short. Measured 25,000 wfps with one channel active. This appears to drop equally by the number of channels active. 25k -> 12.5k -> 8k -> 6k
I have a bit of footage looking at the function gen part of it that I still need to upload. Does anyone have a particular request at what you would like to see?
This scope will be going back to the supplier next Monday as it has an annoying hardware issue where it will just spontaneously reboot. Apart from that, everything works perfectly. There's always going to be some kind of failure rate with early production models and it does have a 3 year warranty
I received my DS1074Z-S late last week and have been playing around with it when I have time after work. Quite impressed with it over the DS1052E. Obviously 4 channels is nice to have but the entire look and feel of the scope is nicer. Having a higher resolution and slightly larger LCD screen helps. The update rate is the biggest improvement.
I have taken a couple of quick clips (more to come - needs to be edited and uploaded - 1mbit upload is sloooow)
Boot up time isn't amazingly quick, but it's not unbearably slow either.
Waveform update rate
DS1052E isn't the greatest at capturing the frequency here, as the trigger pulses are quite short. Measured 25,000 wfps with one channel active. This appears to drop equally by the number of channels active. 25k -> 12.5k -> 8k -> 6k
I have a bit of footage looking at the function gen part of it that I still need to upload. Does anyone have a particular request at what you would like to see?
This scope will be going back to the supplier next Monday as it has an annoying hardware issue where it will just spontaneously reboot. Apart from that, everything works perfectly. There's always going to be some kind of failure rate with early production models and it does have a 3 year warranty
Thanks for posting the videos. In many respects the scope looks excellent.
Any chance you could make another video showing the video record/navigate/analyze features (some are standard and some are options?), or comment on these capabilities on the 1000Z?
Also, another question/request for the OP and also/especially for others who have been (understandably) enthusastic advocates of 4 channel scopes (such as the 1000Z) vs 2 channel scopes (such as the DS2000 series): What are the chances that the various use cases for 4 channels will be sufficiently supported when the wfps drop from 25k -> 12.5k -> 8k -> 6k ? How much useful work can really be done with 12.5k, 8k and 6k wfps?
Excuse me while I have a laugh at the sad state of social media sites ... I was reading this thread and decided I'd like to post my own videos on Youtube so I needed to make an account with Google ... well, it wasn't too painful, I did have to unnecessarily enable scripting but it was clean enough and the number of tracking scripts were minimal, according to Ghostery at least, and the process didn't require anything real apart from a valid email address, so I used a trash one along with rubbish almost random other info, didn't even have to re-choose the name ...
The wacky part came after I'd validated and relogged to view the OP's videos and ... what the hell happened to the list of related vids on the right hand side!?, they were totally random stuff all of sudden! All the times I've surfed Youtube and actually enjoyed the related videos .. but now it's not related at all!
Why, even when I have no history with Google, would the algorithm choose to give me links to topics unrelated to the video itself? I guess this shows the logged in algorithms don't at all target the subject matter at hand. I find that as disturbing as it is broken.
PS: Metalphreak, Sorry to hear it's dying on you. Mine's never done a reset. I purchased the same DS1074Z-S model about the same time as you from eyou.com.au. Possibly even arrived in the same shipment.
Evan
Any chance you could make another video showing the video record/navigate/analyze features (some are standard and some are options?), or comment on these capabilities on the 1000Z?
Record, yes. Playback, sure. Analyze,
not available on the 1000Z, AFAICT. (Assuming the documentation is correct. An owner can confirm or refute that.) This may be the biggest downside to this unit, since the ability to scan and set markers in a large capture, based on a set of conditions, is a powerful capability on the DS2000 series. Navigate... just simple step fwd/rev, and fast scroll through the frames (or play back at various speeds).
...another question/request for the OP and also/especially for others who have been (understandably) enthusastic advocates of 4 channel scopes (such as the 1000Z) vs 2 channel scopes (such as the DS2000 series): What are the chances that the various use cases for 4 channels will be sufficiently supported when the wfps drop from 25k -> 12.5k -> 8k -> 6k ? How much useful work can really be done with 12.5k, 8k and 6k wfps?
Hopefully, quite a bit, since even the DS2000 runs at <6k wfps on half of its timebase settings, even when running only a single channel and optimized sample length. [Check out marmad's excellent
chart].
This scope will be going back to the supplier next Monday as it has an annoying hardware issue where it will just spontaneously reboot. Apart from that, everything works perfectly.
Problem with PSU?
There's always going to be some kind of failure rate with early production models and it does have a 3 year warranty
I am not sure if these are early production models... It has been sold in China for 6 months or so, right?
http://youtu.be/xDY7IDstMvwThe boot up time is very similar to my DSOX2002A. The Rigol DS1000Z-S LEDs seem to be more bright to me than in DS2000.
The 0.000000000 ps (picoseconds?) reading looks funnny. But it is common at many Rigols.
Any chance you could make another video showing the video record/navigate/analyze features (some are standard and some are options?), or comment on these capabilities on the 1000Z?
Record, yes. Playback, sure. Analyze, not available on the 1000Z, AFAICT. (Assuming the documentation is correct. An owner can confirm or refute that.) This may be the biggest downside to this unit, since the ability to scan and set markers in a large capture, based on a set of conditions, is a powerful capability on the DS2000 series. Navigate... just simple step fwd/rev, and fast scroll through the frames (or play back at various speeds).
...another question/request for the OP and also/especially for others who have been (understandably) enthusastic advocates of 4 channel scopes (such as the 1000Z) vs 2 channel scopes (such as the DS2000 series): What are the chances that the various use cases for 4 channels will be sufficiently supported when the wfps drop from 25k -> 12.5k -> 8k -> 6k ? How much useful work can really be done with 12.5k, 8k and 6k wfps?
Hopefully, quite a bit, since even the DS2000 runs at <6k wfps on half of its timebase settings, even when running only a single channel and optimized sample length. [Check out marmad's excellent chart].
Mark_O, Thanks for the comments on the Nav function - it is hard to know from reading Rigol's User Guides just exactly what the products do in some areas, so feedback from actual users (and other study-ers) is really valuable. I had a hunch that the big Nav dial on the 2000 series gets all that front panel real estate for some good reasons and seeing it disappear on the 1000Z is causing some thinking/research/questions.
If I understand correctly, on the 1000Z you cannot search based on particular conditions and you can't set an icon-type marker that would facilitate a subsequent return to the marker, but is it possible to specify a particular point in time (ie, enter a time value) for the waveform and then rapidly access that point in time? Also, any info on what the 1000Z can do
with and without the REC-DS1000Z ("Waveform Record and Play") Option would be most helpful.
If anyone can shed more light on the specific differences between the 1kz and the 2k series with respect to analysis and navigation that would be great.
Regarding the wfps peformance you raise an interesting point - if the 2nd/3rd/4th channels on the 1kz are comparable to the 2nd channel on the 2k series then maybe it's no big deal. It is clear from reading the zillion posts on the DS2k that it is a fantastic scope - hopefully the 1kZ will live up to it's potential as member of the Rigol scope family.
Any more reports from users or thoughts from interested potential users would be good!
I wonder whether it has segmented memory like its big brother the DS2000? How loud is the fan, considering the noisy 1052E? Signal fidelity is obviously not going to be as great as on DS2000, but how much better is it than on the 1052E?
I wonder whether it has segmented memory like its big brother the DS2000?
Yes. Up to 60,000 frames, vs 1,000 on the 1052E.
Signal fidelity is obviously not going to be as great as on DS2000, but how much better is it than on the 1052E?
Depends on what aspect of signal fidelity you're referring to. With respect to sample rates, the 1000Z is basically twice as fast as the 1052E, when running the same number of channels. Also, twice the sensitivity, 24x as much memory, and (obviously) twice the # of channels.
Display updates are up to 30,000 wfms/s, vs ~800 on the 1052E (both single channel mode, but the 1000Z does better even with all 4 channels running than the 1052E with just one). However, even this is a bit deceptive, since the 1052E has no color grading as the 1000Z has, to enable differentiating between frequent and rare occurrences. So you're far more likely to miss a sporadic glitch there.
The 1052E has dual-timebases though, which the 1000Z (and 2000) lack. It also has ET sampling mode (for repetitive signals) up to 10 GSa/s, which neither of the newer models supports.
If I understand correctly, on the 1000Z you cannot search based on particular conditions and you can't set an icon-type marker that would facilitate a subsequent return to the marker,...
Yes, that's correct. Unless Rigol simply decided it wasn't worth putting in their manual.
...but is it possible to specify a particular point in time (ie, enter a time value) for the waveform and then rapidly access that point in time?
Not a point in time, but you can quickly dial up frame 2146, e.g., if you had some reason to do so (perhaps to return there after examining other frames). Beyond that, nav is limited to next/previous.
Also, any info on what the 1000Z can do with and without the REC-DS1000Z ("Waveform Record and Play") Option would be most helpful.
That's what we're discussing. Rigol's version of a Segmented capture mode. Without the option, you can't do these acquisitions at all, and they can dramatically expand the ability to capture transient or sporadic issues.
One last difference there is that the 1000Z doesn't support the Open or continuous Record mode (whatever it's called), where it will continue to acquire frames and wrap around in memory. With that mode, you always get the latest N frames. Versus getting the first N, then stopping.
Oh, and one more big thing the 1000Z is lacking, which marmad pointed out was really vital with the DS2000 segmented captures... it doesn't appear to have the option to display the Date/Time stamp for each frame. So you know that something happened a certain # of times, and can go look at each frame to examine the details. You just can't tell WHEN each event happened. That may not be critical in every situation, but it's certainly helpful.
If I understand correctly, on the 1000Z you cannot search based on particular conditions and you can't set an icon-type marker that would facilitate a subsequent return to the marker,...
Yes, that's correct. Unless Rigol simply decided it wasn't worth putting in their manual.
...but is it possible to specify a particular point in time (ie, enter a time value) for the waveform and then rapidly access that point in time?
Not a point in time, but you can quickly dial up frame 2146, e.g., if you had some reason to do so (perhaps to return there after examining other frames). Beyond that, nav is limited to next/previous.
Also, any info on what the 1000Z can do with and without the REC-DS1000Z ("Waveform Record and Play") Option would be most helpful.
That's what we're discussing. Rigol's version of a Segmented capture mode. Without the option, you can't do these acquisitions at all, and they can dramatically expand the ability to capture transient or sporadic issues.
One last difference there is that the 1000Z doesn't support the Open or continuous Record mode (whatever it's called), where it will continue to acquire frames and wrap around in memory. With that mode, you always get the latest N frames. Versus getting the first N, then stopping.
Oh, and one more big thing the 1000Z is lacking, which marmad pointed out was really vital with the DS2000 segmented captures... it doesn't appear to have the option to display the Date/Time stamp for each frame. So you know that something happened a certain # of times, and can go look at each frame to examine the details. You just can't tell WHEN each event happened. That may not be critical in every situation, but it's certainly helpful.
All the features in the 2000 that are missing on the 1000Z would be nice to have but the ability to access the particular frame number might be just enough nav/review functionality to tip things in favor of the 1000Z (largely due to the 4 channels).
Just to be clear, there seem to be 4 options on the 1000Z:
MEM-DS1000Z Deep Memory Option 24Mpts (1 CH)/12Mpts (2 CH)/6Mpts (4 CH)Memory
REC-DS1000Z Waveform record option Real Time Waveform Record and Replay function
AT-DS1000Z Advanced Trigger option RS232/UART,I2C,SPI,Runt,Windows,Nth Edge, Delay, Time Out
SA-DS1000Z Serial Bus Analysis Option RS232/UART,I2C,SPI Trigger and Decoding function
Are you saying that REC-DS1000Z ("Waveform Record and Replay function) is the option that provides "segmented memory" (rather than MEM-DS1000Z)? Thanks
Just to be clear, there seem to be 4 options on the 1000Z:
MEM-DS1000Z Deep Memory Option 24Mpts (1 CH)/12Mpts (2 CH)/6Mpts (4 CH)Memory
REC-DS1000Z Waveform record option Real Time Waveform Record and Replay function
AT-DS1000Z Advanced Trigger option RS232/UART,I2C,SPI,Runt,Windows,Nth Edge, Delay, Time Out
SA-DS1000Z Serial Bus Analysis Option RS232/UART,I2C,SPI Trigger and Decoding function
Are you saying that REC-DS1000Z ("Waveform Record and Replay function) is the option that provides "segmented memory" (rather than MEM-DS1000Z)? Thanks
Yep, and all of the options are just soft switches for what is built in. Notably, the 100/70 MHz switch is not in the list.
MEM - says how much of the built in RAM you have paid to use. 12/24 were the only options available to me upon purchase.
REC - says if you can use the "Record" menus. This is the one that allows rapid capture of a series of low-sample count waveforms. Interestingly, my old scope has this as an automatic always capturing configuration, instead of in special menus, but I still never really use it. The deep memory catches all in a single pass anyway. If you are regularly looking as repetitive signals then it's likely far more useful.
AT - for those that want it all.
SA - this one also contains all the enhanced serial trigger modes from AT-DS1000Z.
This is the scope that's been on my radar for a while now, I'm just waiting for a full review video (or even better a teardown!) before pulling the trigger.
On another note, does anyone know if this 70MHz version might be susceptible to another 100MHz hack like in past rigols?
5min vid showing a bit of the function generator stuff. The sensitivity on the options rotary knob is way too high, there's no scrolling momentum/acceleration, and when you try to push the knob in to activate the button, sometimes it registers you rotating the knob... Other than that, the menus seem to be fairly well laid out, and it's fairly intuitive to use. The biggest downside to the built in function gen is the fact that it is indeed a built in function gen - all the controls are through softmenus. A standalone function gen usually has a dedicated numeric keypad and buttons for MHz, kHz, etc. For $200, if you're getting a DS1000Z scope and don't have a function gen, it's a serious consideration. If you have never used one before, it's a great introduction to what you can achieve with one, without having to spend big money (or buying a cheapie).
Also worth noting, is the fact there is no external modulation input, which you may typically find on a standalone function gen. There is an options menu to enable AM/FM modulation though, with custom freq settings. Probably a feature that won't be missed by me anyway
At my DSOX2002A the function generator has worse specifications, but the frequency setting is better. The rotary knob has speed acceleration. The setting is easy.
...
5min vid showing a bit of the function generator stuff.
Weren't you sending that thing back for repair?
The sensitivity on the options rotary knob is way too high, there's no scrolling momentum/acceleration, and when you try to push the knob in to activate the button, sometimes it registers you rotating the knob...
I was discussing a variant of this with a friend.
The menu function keys on the right edge of the display, when repeatedly pressed, change selection to the next option in the list, as opposed to just moving the cursor. It would be useful if this happened only when the option under the cursor was already the selected option.
If the option under the cursor is not the selected option, when pressing it's function key, then it should be selected without moving the cursor.
This way when moving the cursor with the rotary knob, and you take your hand away while considering the highlighted option, you can either press the related function key or press the rotary knob to select that option.
Evan
...
5min vid showing a bit of the function generator stuff.
Weren't you sending that thing back for repair?
The sensitivity on the options rotary knob is way too high, there's no scrolling momentum/acceleration, and when you try to push the knob in to activate the button, sometimes it registers you rotating the knob...
I was discussing a variant of this with a friend.
The menu function keys on the right edge of the display, when repeatedly pressed, change selection to the next option in the list, as opposed to just moving the cursor. It would be useful if this happened only when the option under the cursor was already the selected option.
If the option under the cursor is not the selected option, when pressing it's function key, then it should be selected without moving the cursor.
This way when moving the cursor with the rotary knob, and you take your hand away while considering the highlighted option, you can either press the related function key or press the rotary knob to select that option.
Evan
It is quite inconsistent between the various options menus which can make navigation a bit difficult until you are used to using it. With the frequency setting, none of the softmenu buttons do anything of use. The entire row of 6 buttons on the left side of the menu could be used to set Mhz, khz, Hz, mHz for example. The softmenu buttons on the right could change to be +1 unit, +5units, -1 unit, -5 units, so you could quickly change between common frequencies.
Pressing in the rotary knob to make a selection is very difficult without ever so slightly rotating the knob, which registers a change.
I'm sending the scope back tomorrow (Monday). I wanted to spend some time using it first
It works perfectly fine apart from spontaneously rebooting every now and then.
Once I've had a fair bit of experience using it, I might compile a list of "bug fixes" or improvements, and send them to Rigol. Does anyone have a proper contact email address for them? (queries via the online webform appear to go unanswered).
As for what the options do, it comes with all the trials pre-activated, so it's hard to compare with the standard version until they expire.
Well, it looks like Rigol is about half a hardware company and half a software company and like many software companies it might not get the best or final version out the door with 1.0. How much of the feature set can or will be enhanced on the 1000Z as a result of user and overall market feedback remains to be seen.
Based on the DS2000 series it would seem that Rigol has plenty of ability to design and steadily enhance products - and achieve commendable results. Nonetheless, it is somewhat disappointing that Rigol doesn't engage a little more with respect to individual and overall market facing communications. For example, if someone at Rigol were to better/more fully address just exactly where the company is with their various power supply issues that might help Rigol gain even better product sales and it would probably give some extra confidence to existing owners who voted for Rigol power supplies with their wallets.
Some of the specific early comments on the 1000Z scope might be fixable in software/firmware - such as the functionality of some of the menus and buttons. Others might just be a function of the price/cost design point. For what it's worth, the first time I had a chance to use Agilent scopes (several in the DSOX2000 series) I was surprised how "twiddly" their knobs are - they didn't seem to operate with tremendous precision. I wouldn't say they felt cheap but they certainly didn't have the positive feedback of old Tektronix click stop reference knobs. Having said that, even on venerable Tek analog scopes some of the knobs were/are just "good" (not great) - although even the Analog Tek continuously variable knobs were probably slightly more solid feeling than what comes on the Agilent DSOX 2000 series. And no doubt, user knob turning and button pushing can be somewhat subjective.
I'm pretty sure that both Rigol and Agilent (and other scope manufacturers) are fighting tooth and nail to deliver as much thoughtful functionality as they can muster while keeping costs down so they can keep prices down and still make enough margin to stay in business. My guess is that when we want a ton of scope functionality for closer to $500 than $1000 something in the way of hardware might be less than state of the art or top-shelf quality. So hardware might be a smidgeon off (such as with some of the knobs), but there is no reason for not getting the software to a state where the user experience is enjoyable rather than frustrating. Certainly, when customers start sending products back for a refund rather than keeping something they had been looking forward to using and owning - that would indicate the product might need some help.
Long story short:
1. Rigol has the know-how to make excellent scopes
2. Rigol doesn't seem to consistently get their best out of 1.0 versions
3. Rigol has shown the tenacity to improve early versions but they go at their pace and with their priorities
4. Rigol could/should do a better job of communicating their awareness of customer feedback (at least on key features and functions) in a way that gives better confidence to existing customers and potential new customers, ie, Rigol should work harder/better to communicate that meaningful feedback from early customers will be addressed.
If Rigol doesn't step up more directly, then the role of their distributors (such as Tequipment, for example) becomes even more important. So far it appears that Tequipment and Rigol make good partners and together the combination is good for customers. It remains to be seen however whether companies such as Tequipment can become strong spokespersons for feature/function roadmaps, or whether they can just provide (good but) conventional sales and service support.
Overall, I'm cautiously optimistic that Rigol will step up their game another notch and further improve on what has so far been very good progress over their last several years in the test equipment business.
- If the DS1000Z garners user support and enthuisasm at the same rate or even more so than the DS2000 Rigol will have done their job well.
EF
Very interesting opinions in this thread. I was just about set to order a DS1074Z-S before reading this thread, and now I'm not so sure it's a great time to buy. I hate buying 'broken' software under the assumption it will just be patched later with an update..but I need a scope badly!
It's not broken, it can just be improved
it's an amazing scope for the price.
Very interesting opinions in this thread. I was just about set to order a DS1074Z-S before reading this thread, and now I'm not so sure it's a great time to buy. I hate buying 'broken' software under the assumption it will just be patched later with an update..but I need a scope badly!
It's not broken, it can just be improved it's an amazing scope for the price.
Agreed. I'm inclined to surface as many facts from user experiences as possible because as a "realistic optimist"
I think that can only lead to better buying decisions and also hopefully better product support. I certainly don't want to talk anyone out of a DS1000Z. I'm more interested in having Rigol step up and do their very best - which I think can be excellent. I'm betting they will rally and fix bugs as they are reported and bring feature improvements as they are reasonably suggested. Plus, being part of this forum and the informal (leading-edge?) User's Group that exists here we have a great ecosystem for learning, support, and hopefully gaining the ear of Rigol's product managers. I can't argue with anyone buying a DS2000 but I think if you need a 4 channel scope for anywhere near $500 the 1000Z is the way to fly.
To me it isn't a question of how good is the 1000Z is so far, it's a matter of how fast (through bug fixes and firmware enhancements) it can become legendary like the DS2000, or even better. The only other question is how fast can Rigol (and other scope manufacturers) truly dial-in the full potential for achieving cost-effective MSO functionality that enables users to easily, reliably, and powerfully manage both analog and digital signals with precise time correlation. I think we are on the path with both Rigol and Agilent.
The sensitivity on the options rotary knob is way too high, there's no scrolling momentum/acceleration, and when you try to push the knob in to activate the button, sometimes it registers you rotating the knob...
Same on the 2000. But
YES... momentum/acceleration is the best bloody idea I've heard for ages!
I realize this is COMPLETELY an unofficial opinion question, but do you think that if I bought a DS1074Z-S now, I would be eligible for future software updates as they updated these scopes in the hopefully near-future? I don't want to buy something only for it to become obsoleted by its own Rev. 2 model in just 3 months time..
You can get firmware updates as they become available. Just ask your supplier. I was told there isn't one available above the shipping version yet. Thought my issue might be firmware related but it's not. I doubt there'll be a hardware revision any time soon. The hardware updates on the ds2000 seem to be for the additional function gen models coming out.
The sensitivity on the options rotary knob is way too high, there's no scrolling momentum/acceleration, and when you try to push the knob in to activate the button, sometimes it registers you rotating the knob...
Same on the 2000. But YES... momentum/acceleration is the best bloody idea I've heard for ages!
Agreed - it would seem that momentum/acceleration would be a highly desirable feature on knob controls.