Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[tautech]

Full screen XY? Get an old scope from the last millennium. Those can do this. 

Why would anyone in their right mind wanna go backwards to solve a problem when all they need to do is learn how to use their scope and its attributes.

I am happy to learn how i can get a fullscreen XY on that scope... but i guess there is nothing to learn, because there is nothing behind your statement.

The information about the XY function in the manual is also virtually nothing... 

All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.
We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

Webserver screenshot.


Using the webserver and Full screen mode for XY OTOH provides a 240mm grid on a 24" display, much larger than anyone's ancient CRO. 


Full screen


We could go a step further and screenshot Full screen mode if/when documentation images are required.

[EvgenyG]

For anyone who might want a soft carry or storage case for your SDS800X, Amazon US has one which fits perfectly. Nicely padded all around. It has a large front pouch which holds probes well, and side pouches for whatever. Less than USD$25. Looks pretty much the same as the one Siglent sells for $65.

Great find! I wanted to get one, but shipping to Australia is more than the bag itself Ended up finding same on AliExpress, currently $23 AUD GST inc.

[mikes]

Ended up finding same on AliExpress, currently $23 AUD GST inc.

An even better deal. Note that they used plastic D-rings and there's a complaint about that in the Amazon reviews. Probably best to not use the shoulder strap. The rest seems well suited.

We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

There's no reason Siglent couldn't provide a setting where everything but the graticule/trace disappears after a timeout, returning with any user action. They already do something similar with some bits of the UI.

[tautech]

We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

There's no reason Siglent couldn't provide a setting where everything but the graticule/trace disappears after a timeout, returning with any user action. They already do something similar with some bits of the UI.

The Hide Menu feature only hides the RH menu bar of a dropdown menu.
The overhead options and channel tabs are always available except when we restrict them from saved screenshots.

The 70x70mm XY display seems adequate for basic XY use but can be pushed to 240x240mm to provide greater detail in webserver full screen mode on a 24" monitor for example.


Is a bump to say 100x100mm using your suggestion going to be of high value to someone constantly using XY mode ?

[mikes]

The 70x70mm XY display seems adequate for basic XY use but can be pushed to 240x240mm to provide greater detail in webserver full screen mode on a 24" monitor for example.

Increasing the size does not increase the resolution (detail).

[ebastler]

The 70x70mm XY display seems adequate for basic XY use but can be pushed to 240x240mm to provide greater detail in webserver full screen mode on a 24" monitor for example.

Increasing the size does not increase the resolution (detail).

Indeed. It's the low resolution -- which seems to be just 240 * 240 effective pixels in XY mode -- which I find most limiting.

[2N3055]

Scopes are not general purpose computers.
Not everything is possible or easy to add.

There are some dedicated areas of the screen that never change.
Scope as it is now does not support  full screen rendering of waveform.
Is is possible?
Probably, if they redesign some parts of internal workings of the scope..

Effort - benefit?
Just for X-Y to gain 15% more vertical dimension?
I'm not sure that is high on priority list...

Thing is, 800xHD is small scope. As in smaller screen, compared to its larger brethren...
On 10" screens Siglents X-Y mode looks big enough.
Like a friend of mine says "It's the price of the price"...

OTOH, my Keysight MSOX-3104T X-Y mode is marginally larger than 800xHD.
With distinction, that 800xHD has superior looking X-Y mode, Keysight being 8 biter and low res LCD...

[tautech]

Scopes are not general purpose computers.
Not everything is possible or easy to add.

There are some dedicated areas of the screen that never change.
Scope as it is now does not support  full screen rendering of waveform.
Is is possible?
Probably, if they redesign some parts of internal workings of the scope..

Effort - benefit?
Just for X-Y to gain 15% more vertical dimension?
I'm not sure that is high on priority list...

Thing is, 800xHD is small scope. As in smaller screen, compared to its larger brethren...
On 10" screens Siglents X-Y mode looks big enough.
Like a friend of mine says "It's the price of the price"...

OTOH, my Keysight MSOX-3104T X-Y mode is marginally larger than 800xHD.
With distinction, that 800xHD has superior looking X-Y mode, Keysight being 8 biter and low res LCD...

Indeed.

Yet the discussion is valuable and could spur further improvements from Siglent for their DSO product range.
I might get out a SDS1000X HD and have a deeper look at what its XY mode offers.......

[ebastler]

I might get out a SDS1000X HD and have a deeper look at what its XY mode offers.......

I would venture a bet that it's the same 240*240 pixels. If I remember correctly, the 1000X HD uses the same vertical pixel binning in regular Y(t) mode as its little brother. In XY mode that binning seems to apply to both axes (not too surprising), resulting in that pretty basic resolution. I find it most noticeable in the X direction, where -- unless I have overlooked some control option? -- every other column just stays black. 

[tautech]

............
All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.
We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

SDS1000X HD models with their 10" display offer an XY display of 105mm.

[mikes]

............
All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.
We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

SDS1000X HD models with their 10" display offer an XY display of 105mm.

... and have exactly the same 1024 * 600 "resolution" as the SDS800X HD models.

[BillyO]

Note that they used plastic D-rings and there's a complaint about that in the Amazon reviews. Probably best to not use the shoulder strap.

Easily replaced for not much money.

I have LowePro camera bags that have plastic 'D' rings that have not failed in decades.  I usually carry much more weight than the SDS804.

[eTobey]

All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.

It might be already used, but surely it isnt used in an efficient way.

We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

Half of the dropdown menus are irrelevant in this mode anyway, and there i plenty of space besided the xy view...

The xy view could also have at least used the whole horizontal space.

It seems like wanting to stick to the old analog feeling, where the screen would be square. Just dont be innovative....

[Furna]

It seems like wanting to stick to the old analog feeling, where the screen would be square. Just dont be innovative....

 ... or don't go too far so to loose "more experienced" customers.

[2N3055]

All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.

It might be already used, but surely it isnt used in an efficient way.

We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

Half of the dropdown menus are irrelevant in this mode anyway, and there i plenty of space besided the xy view...

The xy view could also have at least used the whole horizontal space.

It seems like wanting to stick to the old analog feeling, where the screen would be square. Just dont be innovative....

X-Y display is square by definition.

[Conrad Hoffman]

Thanks @tautech and others- I got that little nano-router and my scope now powers up with the correct time and date!

[eTobey]

Thanks @tautech and others- I got that little nano-router and my scope now powers up with the correct time and date!

Until you have network problems...

[RAPo]

Reference?

X-Y display is square by definition.

[2N3055]

Reference?

X-Y display is square by definition.

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

[RAPo]

Rigol could do it: a square x/y plot, but different pixel sizes in x,y direction.
But then again I asked for a reference not an example.

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

[mikes]

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

It would look exactly the same. A non 1:1 aspect ratio does not imply a non 1:1 scaling factor, it just give you more headroom in one axis.

Take your 1:1 aspect ratio and apply different scaling to each axis, then tell us what your circle looks like.

[2N3055]

Rigol could do it: a square x/y plot, but different pixel sizes in x,y direction.
But then again I asked for a reference not an example.

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

Aha you want to argue semantics... No I don't have an encyclopedia quote that claims that.
But you misunderstood.
This is one of those things that look obvious to me.

I didn't say "Defintion of X-Y mode is such....."

I used idiom "by definition" which has a meaning "because of the nature of someone or something"..
English.... I know...

As for Rigol and their new scopes...

I see all the time companies in consumer space trying to do new things all the time to attract attention to how they "innovate"..
Sometimes they replace "old" with "new" at the detriment of function and quality.. Just to show how they are making things that are modern and new.

Unfortunately, Rigol is making many decisions lately that I would classify as such type of behaviour.
I would not consider them as an reference example...

[2N3055]

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

It would look exactly the same. A non 1:1 aspect ratio does not imply a non 1:1 scaling factor, it just give you more headroom in one axis.

Take your 1:1 aspect ratio and apply different scaling to each axis, then tell us what your circle looks like.

Think about it.

You set both CH1 and CH2 at 1V/div.
That is ±4V dynamic range.
How do you plot that on the screen?
Symmetrically.

And on X axis there is NO data outside of that. ADC has none.
So yeah, square it is...

Unless you plot at 10mm/div vertically and 20mm/ horizontally in which case, an ellipse..

[mikes]

Think about it.

You set both CH1 and CH2 at 1V/div.
That is ±4V dynamic range.
How do you plot that on the screen?
Symmetrically.

And on X axis there is NO data outside of that. ADC has none.
So yeah, square it is...

Unless you plot at 10mm/div vertically and 20mm/ horizontally in which case, an ellipse..

You're making assumptions and not thinking about it. What if the grid is scaled to match the aspect ratio? e.g. ±3 divisions for X, ±4 divisions for Y.

I'm not necessarily arguing for that, or even for more display area, just pointing out that it's possible if one doesn't limit their thinking. There is no need for an X-Y display be limited to a square area - (most?) analog scopes don't impose that limit.

[2N3055]

Think about it.

You set both CH1 and CH2 at 1V/div.
That is ±4V dynamic range.
How do you plot that on the screen?
Symmetrically.

And on X axis there is NO data outside of that. ADC has none.
So yeah, square it is...

Unless you plot at 10mm/div vertically and 20mm/ horizontally in which case, an ellipse..

You're making assumptions and not thinking about it. What if the grid is scaled to match the aspect ratio? e.g. ±3 divisions for X, ±4 divisions for Y.

I'm not necessarily arguing for that, or even for more display area, just pointing out that it's possible if one doesn't limit their thinking. There is no need for an X-Y display be limited to a square area - (most?) analog scopes don't impose that limit.

I am not making assumptions. Thinking is fine as long as they are not just flights of fancy...
If you take both channels and set them to same V/div, which you want to to keep ADC in optimal scale, you get 1:1 aspect ratio.
Not an analog scope..
Simple as that.

There are always practical considerations too. You are not plotting math from an analytical function with infinite detail and no noise.
Also X-Y is time critical, so it is nice if value/pixel mapping can be done as simplistic as possible.