new killer scope in town - a true game changer from R&S - RTB2002 & RTB2004

[Darkover]

Olaf - try FW 2.000 or earlier while you wait for the parts (see my post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg3246780/?topicseen#msg3246780). Ping me if you need a copy.

Of course, I am not old enought to have 2.0. I started with 2.4. However I can't understand how it would help, because when I switch back later to newer firmware it needs another self calibration and I think it will fail again in this case. And even if this works, it may probably help with ch0 wich only has a relative small offset, but channel 3/4 have a massive offset of 20%.

Olaf

p.s: Today I read that R&S developed new radio for the German army, but the army reject it, because it was to complicate to use and it can not resist the noisy voltage inside a tank. So perhaps they have some bigger problem now than our scope.

[Hydron]

I suggested FW 2.000 only as a temporary patch to allow use of the scope while waiting for the PGA ICs to arrive. I found on my faulty unit that this FW allowed the calibration to pass (I assume looser limits on offset), while the newer FW failed as you've seen, and caused an even larger offset than the fault originally caused (I assume due to loading some default values on failure or something). Up to you if you want it, DM me if you do (too large to attach). It's easy to swap back and forward btw. If you don't need to use the scope while you wait then just leave it (I had urgent work to finish when mine went bad )

[Darkover]

I suggested FW 2.000 only as a temporary patch to allow use of the scope while waiting for the PGA ICs to arrive.

Okay, thank you, I understand, fortunatly I did not suffer from the to-less-scope-syndrom. I have a few others to choose from.

In the meantime I soldered some testboard with ADF4158 and ADF4106 (I think same housing than LMH6518) on a PCB with 2mm copper core. 
I expect the exchange of the LMH won't be to easy, because I expect some good amount of copper in the RTB board, expecially for a circuit that needs 1W, sigh.
However, I will write about it when it happend.

Olaf

[salomonander]

Are there any settings i need to change if i want to connect an active differential probe? Actually, i already did so but the noise went up like crazy. Kind of the opposite of what i was expecting. Im a newbie so most likely a user error. Its a hameg hz109 probe.

[Darkover]

Are there any settings i need to change if i want to connect an active differential probe?

You should switch of the 10:1 setting you probably use every day and you should think about a strategy in case your probe needs a 50R resistor inside of the scope, because R&S in there huge stinginess forget to implement some important things we can expect in a 500Euro scope.

Olaf

[salomonander]

Thanks! I think the probe has a 50ohm output. Do i still need to use the 50ohm adapter? I have one of those. Also, i get crazy overshoot when connecting to the square wave output on the scope. Its even worse in 10:1….

[edavid]

Thanks! I think the probe has a 50ohm output. Do i still need to use the 50ohm adapter? I have one of those.

No, if you look in the manual, the probe does not need 50 ohm termination.

Also, i get crazy overshoot when connecting to the square wave output on the scope. Its even worse in 10:1….

Let's see a photo of how you have the probe connected, and the scope display.

[salomonander]

Dont know what changed, but it looks good now. Maybe i had a bad connection somewhere… the edge of the square is not perfect but i guess good enough? Please correct me if im wrong. Could this come fron the probe being slightly slower than the scope? The probe is around 9/12ns while the scope is something like 1ns i think. This pic was taken with a 1:1 setting on the probe.

Is there a way to limit the bandwidth further down from the 20mhz option? Id love to just measure the audible range up to 20khz

[Hydron]

Dont know what changed, but it looks good now. Maybe i had a bad connection somewhere… the edge of the square is not perfect but i guess good enough? Please correct me if im wrong. Could this come fron the probe being slightly slower than the scope? The probe is around 9/12ns while the scope is something like 1ns i think. This pic was taken with a 1:1 setting on the probe.

Is there a way to limit the bandwidth further down from the 20mhz option? Id love to just measure the audible range up to 20khz

Maths functions have a lowpass option. Kinda slow though

[Darkover]

Maths functions have a lowpass option. Kinda slow though

This is one of the things I realy missed from the smaller brother of the RTB, the older Hameg/R&S HMO2024. They had a rotary encoder for this. You turn it to the position when your measurement looks good in 1s, all the noise is gone, but the important details still there. :'(

Olaf

[Xyphro]

> Would be good to ask on e2e referencing those 2 links :-)

Nice idea. I opened the question there, too. :-D

https://e2e.ti.com/support/amplifiers-group/amplifiers/f/amplifiers-forum/1569255/lmh6518-offset-problem-with-lmh6518

Olaf

Seems not only offsets drift but also time: 1 day got 11+ days :-)

(Yeah, the poor guy will have underestimated the overhead of discussing this with the BU in his first reply).

[salomonander]

Can anyone comment on this waveform? I bought an older type of differential probe as i cannot afford the new version.
Im wondering if it works properly as the square wave looks a little undershot. But im pretty new to scopes and would appreciate someone more experienced to chime in. I did get a lot of overshoot in 10:1 mode, but limiting the bandwidth to 20Mhz took care of that. Makes sense i guess, as the probe only has a bandwidth of 30Mhz. Which is plenty for what i do. With the limit engaged the waveform now looks the same in 1:1 and 10:1. Still, there is this slight undershoot and no trimmer in the probe to adjust. I could still return it at this point. But it was only 100$ while the dedicated probe for the rtb is 2000$. Way out of reach for me. Here is a link to the probes manual:

https://scdn.rohde-schwarz.com/ur/pws/dl_downloads/dl_common_library/dl_manuals/dl_user_manual/HZ109_Manual_en.pdf

Thanks!

[Hydron]

That waveform looks reasonable, even good. Those sorts of probes with flying leads are never going to have a perfect step response.

[Sorama]

Wish every differential probe looked like that.

[KungFuJosh]

Based on that photo, I would have purchased one immediately if it handled higher voltage.

[salomonander]

Sounds great. Ill keep it. I never scope square waves anyways. Its always a sinus. Thanks guys!

[pdenisowski]

Can anyone comment on this waveform? I bought an older type of differential probe as i cannot afford the new version.

That looks really good to me!

But it was only 100$ while the dedicated probe for the rtb is 2000$. Way out of reach for me.

Honestly, that's a great price for that probe - for $100 I would have bought that with my own money (and I have unlimited access to every scope and probe that R&S makes  )

[2N3055]

That is a good probe for CAN bus and RS485 in general..... Just saying..

[Martin72]

Honestly, that's a great price for that probe - for $100 I would have bought that with my own money (and I have unlimited access to every scope and probe that R&S makes  )

https://www.ebay.com/itm/187063872361

179$ or best offer...
I would have bid, but once again, this is an offer where shipping outside the US costs an exorbitant amount—and that's for such a small device.

[Martin72]

Based on that photo, I would have purchased one immediately if it handled higher voltage.

As is almost always the case, scope manufacturers do not produce their own probes, but offer branded ones.
This is also true in this case; the original manufacturer is likely to be Elditest from Germany.
If you want higher voltages but the same signal quality, look for Elditest GE8100.
https://digchip.com/datasheets/parts/datasheet/2/5057/GE8100-pdf.php

[jjoonathan]

The killer scope is dead! Long live the killer scope!

https://www.rohde-schwarz.com/products/test-and-measurement/oscilloscopes/rs-mxo-3-oscilloscope_334309.html

Smart of R&S to do the app bundle deal again

[exe]

The killer scope is dead! Long live the killer scope!

C'mon, they can't even put a price on their website ("[price] Total: On request"). I guess can't afford it anyway, probably not even 100MHz model 

[richtoy]

The firmware is still there, I have not removed it.

Peter

Hi,

I don't find any working links, can someone please share again?

Such a poor service from R&S, I certainly won't buy again from them if I ever replace my RTB2004 or FPC1500

Richard

[jjoonathan]

Tequipment has pricing on the options but no MXO3 scope yet. Probably just launch day synchronization problems. That said, account creation still locked behind having a registered business and manual review? Yeah, that's rough for hobbyists, and really needs to be fixed to sell into this market.

Killer scope's death may have been greatly exaggerated.

In the meantime, RTB firmware + hashes
n0c7949a8eee6c80d86d119e32b16f5e164bcafdd5a9ec63ebda62c956ecf3015e  RTB200x_Firmware_V02.400.zip
m4lw4re4989a4f92f61b2e6f5cfc7cfd5653bc0326056d4edadbd962c12377511453dd9  RTB22_Firmware_v03.00.zip
1pr0m1se56de9016b75385af57d7d2e550ac682933edf67af0ff2956f920df96830d3d9c  RTB24_Firmware_v03.00.zip

[Martin72]

C'mon, they can't even put a price on their website ("[price] Total: On request"). I guess can't afford it anyway, probably not even 100MHz model 

https://www.batronix.com/versand/rohde-schwarz/MXO3.html