Author Topic: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B (Read 351171 times)

rwb · « **Reply #50 on:** March 09, 2016, 07:17:14 am »

Yea, I have a 3x4 foot cnc machine and it's using a screw drive.

ServoKit · « **Reply #51 on:** March 09, 2016, 12:31:55 pm »

Ok, guys, got a nice shipment from Digikey today and took the opportunity to place some resistors:

https://youtu.be/RjAU077Dsmc

First half with machine speed at 50%, second at 100% (watch table shake...). No vision, obviously.

Had to use double sided tape or the little critters would just fly off. Resistors are 0805, the smallest part we will be using for our current project but I think that at least 0603 would be ok too.

Regards, Axel

matseng · « **Reply #52 on:** March 09, 2016, 01:19:43 pm »

Nice, but the 50% speed seemed so slow that I almost think I can do it by hand and faster :-)

Can you repeat the run at 100% speed and have it use both heads?

ServoKit · « **Reply #53 on:** March 09, 2016, 01:23:02 pm »

I could but I only have one No. 1 nozzle (the smallest size), the larger nozzles don't work with 0805. 100% is actually not the highest speed, it goes up to 120%...

Regards, Axel

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #54 on:** March 09, 2016, 01:47:02 pm »

Like the Neoden, looks like the speed setting is dumb and applies to all movements - there's no reason to slow down when there is no part on the nozzle (though probably useful to have the option).

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #55 on:** March 09, 2016, 01:48:43 pm »

PS look for clearer double-sided tape, so you can see the pad positions better. I also found that the white stuff I had was a total nightmare to remove.

ServoKit · « **Reply #56 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:12:06 pm »

Ok, I found that I can use the No. 2 size nozzle with 0805 if I switch off the pressure sensor (probably wouldn't want to do this in a production setting).

Here you go, two nozzles:

https://youtu.be/6SSU50hn_zI

Regards, Axel

matseng · « **Reply #57 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:36:14 pm »

Looks like it does 3600 CPH utilizing both heads, no vision and the shortest possible distance between the pcb and the reel.
I wonder how the setup must look like to get the 7000 CPH they claim in the specs? Crank it up overdrive at 120% will not take you all the way.

http://www.zjyingxing.com/e_products/TVM802A-126.html

ServoKit · « **Reply #58 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:47:32 pm »

I think it's more like 5000 cph, it does the fiducial recognition before starting to place parts which only has to be done once and after that we get to 1.5parts/sec. or thereabouts. Also, the parts are rotated, that takes time too.

There are a few more arcane settings in the software I didn't explore yet but I think it's safe to say that for all practical purposes the video shows the max. achievable speed. More than fast enough for our purposes, really, but YMMV.

Regards, Axel

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #59 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:49:57 pm »

Quote from: matseng on March 09, 2016, 02:36:14 pm

Looks like it does 3600 CPH utilizing both heads, no vision and the shortest possible distance between the pcb and the reel.
I wonder how the setup must look like to get the 7000 CPH they claim in the specs? Crank it up overdrive at 120% will not take you all the way.

http://www.zjyingxing.com/e_products/TVM802A-126.html

Maybe parts that happen to be placed in pairs spaced apart by the nozzle distance so it doesn't need to move between placements, and a very small PCB right next to the feeder

ServoKit · « **Reply #60 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:53:45 pm »

Good point; I'm curious how the parts are exported from the EDA software. Are close together parts exported as pairs? Maybe an Altium or Eagle user can clarify this. The machine's software does no optimization as far as I can see, the parts are picked in order.

Regards, Axel

matseng · « **Reply #61 on:** March 09, 2016, 02:55:54 pm »

Looks like it starts the placement @5 seconds and is done @21 so 16 seconds to place 16 parts giving aboutish 3600 cph.

I'd be happy with that speed if I get a PnP some day - then it would only take 20 minutes to populate each my memory pcbs for my (so far only on the drawingboard (and some small real-part tests)) computer made of of discrete transistors and diodes..... Need 128 of them so it will take a while.

SimonD · « **Reply #62 on:** March 09, 2016, 04:49:20 pm »

Hi Axel,
Looks interested machine.
Have you try with LQFP Package Devices ?
and if yes, how is the result ?

Thanks !

ServoKit · « **Reply #63 on:** March 09, 2016, 05:35:23 pm »

Not tried. I will try 28 pin TSSOPs with 0.65mm pitch next and report back. That's the highest density which we use in the current project. I did already try SOICs with 1.27mm pitch and they work fine.

Regards, Axel

rwb · « **Reply #64 on:** March 10, 2016, 04:38:45 am »

Here is a video if this same machine I came across while on Taobao.com

http://cloud.video.taobao.com/play/u/2381895619/e/1/t/3/p/2/32102185.swf

http://world.taobao.com/item/521022603339.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.BsG7LM#detail

The sale page has this machine listed for $2600 and it says it can place .5mm pitch IC parts.

ServoKit · « **Reply #65 on:** March 10, 2016, 04:53:59 am »

That seems to be the manufacturer's page, QiHe. I'm still in the market for a printer and a larger oven, can anyone comment on those offers:

Printer ($260): http://world.taobao.com/item/525291626153.htm

Oven ($1050): http://world.taobao.com/item/525259351947.htm

Addendum: Aha, the devil is in the details. They quote free shipping but only to mainland China. For overseas destinations it's 90yuan/kg (at least for the printer and oven, for the TVM802A it says contact the seller; at 60kg and this rate this would come to Y5,400 = $830)

Regards, Axel

thommo · « **Reply #66 on:** March 10, 2016, 05:05:50 am »

I'm about to buy one of those Stencil Printers, and as for the Oven, I know that the Neoden guys have discontinued carry it. Can't help with better alternative but i suspect it's very much a matter of getting what you pay for re the oven.

I'm considering a small conveyor from Torch, but more expensive.

Quote from: ServoKit on March 10, 2016, 04:53:59 am

That seems to be the manufacturer's page, QiHe. I'm still in the market for a printer and a larger oven, can anyone comment on those offers:

Printer ($260): http://world.taobao.com/item/525291626153.htm

Oven ($1050): http://world.taobao.com/item/525259351947.htm

Regards, Axel

ServoKit · « **Reply #67 on:** March 10, 2016, 05:11:56 am »

Quote from: thommo on March 10, 2016, 05:05:50 am

i suspect it's very much a matter of getting what you pay for re the oven.

That's what I figured. The printer looks solid to me, with shipping that would come out at $600 or so.

Regards, Axel

ServoKit · « **Reply #68 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:00:26 am »

Ok, here's a high speed test with optimized part list:

https://youtu.be/4HvR1EBtv18

Speed 100%, hand-made part list where the space in x between parts is exactly the distance between the nozzles. Parts are resistors 0805. Space in y between parts 3mm. No vision, no rotation, no pressure sensor, no fiducial recognition.

Places 50 parts in a little under 50secs which comes out at somewhere obove 3600 cph. With the 120% speed setting we would get to around 4300-4400 cph.

Interesting observation: The nozzle #2 (right) has clearly more consistent placement than #1, it's the bigger size (No. 2). I wonder if that's because it has better grip on the part.

Regards, Axel

rwb · « **Reply #69 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:04:09 am »

Nice little test.

Swap nozzles and see if the effect is the same with the nozzle on the right instead of left.

ServoKit · « **Reply #70 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:16:58 am »

I will. - Apparently the software does some sort of optimization; for the video I had hard coded which nozzle to use; when I leave it to the software (specify nozzle "1/2" rather than "1" or "2"), the machine places the parts column wise, left column first, right column second. This takes a little longer (3-4 secs.).

Regards, Axel

rwb · « **Reply #71 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:22:59 am »

So can you mill out your own custom part trays and have the machine pick parts from those custom trays?

I'm wondering if you can use half your work area for custom part trays if you needed that many parts or if you just run out of feeders.

ServoKit · « **Reply #72 on:** March 10, 2016, 07:35:09 am »

Yes, tried that already and it works as expected. I'll post more about it later today.

You can basically use up the whole space that's not occupied by PCBs; obviously there are some constraints from the rods that guide the PCB holder.

Regards, Axel

ServoKit · « **Reply #73 on:** March 10, 2016, 08:42:03 am »

Here's a pic of a sample 3D printed tray.

It has 8 pockets for TSSOP-28 (0.65mm pitch). The little dimples indicate Pin 1 (eventually they will be inlaid with white paint or so).

Note the hole in the center of pocket #1. Using the down camera I can pinpoint the location of the tray as detailed in this blog post:

http://servokit.com/blog/2016/03/09/tvm802a-coordinate-systems/.

Of course eventually any trays will have to be bolted down, for now it's double-sided tape.

Regards, Axel

ServoKit · « **Reply #74 on:** March 10, 2016, 10:13:14 am »

Sample video using custom tray at 35% effective speed.

https://youtu.be/c6dBbCXtRzo

0.65mm pitch, perfect placement, no vision required.

Regards, Axel


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Author Topic: Pick and Place Machine TVM802A / TVM802B (Read 351171 times)

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