Author Topic: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?  (Read 1656 times)

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Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« on: August 23, 2023, 08:24:32 pm »
I have a, 5V, design that uses a Lattice GAL16V8D in a DIP, to do some combinatorial logic... so today I went to build a few more and found I don't seem to have any!

I then looked on my normal supplier sites... and there aren't any!

I seem to have a few Atmel F16V8C... not sure where I got them from... and I can see that Farnell has 159 in stock...

My GAL design is very simple and is written in ABEL... which I compiled using ispLEVER to get my JEDEC file for the GAL16V8D-10LJ...

Can I assume that a 16V8D is not a F16V8C and hence I cannot just load the fuse map from one into another?

Now ispLEVER has support for GAL16V8C... would that be compatible?  Or is a Lattice GAL16V8C not the same, fuse wise, as an Atmel F16V8C?

Very confused!





 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2023, 09:18:43 pm »
I think the base 16V8 fuse maps are compatible.
One simple check is to select both in your programmer, and check the fuse count.  *
You can also pgm the ATF16V8C you have, and simply try it.

Does your JED file have test vectors ?
If it has those, you can functionally test the SPLD after pgm to ensure the logic works as expected.

The Atmel software for creating ATF16V8 files is called WinCUPL you can download that, if the above does not work.

* Addit : fired up my pgmr  :  they have identical fuse counts of 2194, so you shoul dbe ok to just pgm the ATF16V8C
Manufacturer:LATTICE, Device name:GAL16V8C  Package Info.:DIP20, Device size:2194,
Manufacturer:ATMEL,   Device name:ATF16V8C Package Info.:DIP20, Device size:2194,
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 09:48:21 pm by PCB.Wiz »
 

Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2023, 10:53:32 pm »
Using my JED file...

I tried programming the F16V8C using my MiniPro programmer (TL866A) and it showed an error and on testing the device it did not pass my tests when I tickled its inputs.

 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2023, 11:04:29 pm »
Using my JED file...

I tried programming the
 F16V8C using my MiniPro programmer (TL866A) and it showed an error and on testing the device it did not pass my tests when I tickled its inputs.
It should not give an error, as the fuse maps are identical, what exactly does the error say ?  I presume it loads the JED file ok, but fails pgm somehow ?
Is the SW up to date ?
Can you try another programmer with the JED file ?
 

Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2023, 11:07:11 pm »
1858165-0

see photo

This is the only programmer I have that can do 16V8 devices.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2023, 11:12:20 pm by NivagSwerdna »
 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2023, 11:25:14 pm »
This is the only programmer I have that can do 16V8 devices.
that shows ATF16V8B, but you said you have ATF16V8C ?
Try to select the exact device, as the algorithms do bounce around on these generation of parts.
 

Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2023, 11:31:47 pm »
That's as close as I can get...

 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2023, 11:39:51 pm »
That's as close as I can get...
Hmm.
if that's the newest Sw for that model, you may be limited to sourcing the exact 16V8 variants the programmer supports. (or buy a newer programmer)
I presume that error is the first non-zero fuse it encounters ?


Addit: another thread on here suggests TL866II plus? is ok with ATF16V8B parts

addit2: and I did find this via google, but this is for TL866-II, not the TL866A the OP mentions.

Quote
TL866II Upgrade History:

Version: V8.07 Support:15401--2018.10.23

ADD: ATF16V8C ATF16V8CZ ATF16V8CEXT
ATF22V10C ATF22V10C(UES) ATF22V10CEXT
ATF22V10CQ ATF22V10CQ(UES)
ATF22V10CQZ ATF22V10CQZ(UES)
ATF22V10CZ ATF22V10CZ(UES)

Version: V8.05 Support:15360--2018.10.20

ADD: ATF20V8B ATF20V8BL ATF20V8BQ ATF20V8BQL
ATF22V10B ATF22V10BL ATF22V10BQ ATF22V10BQL
next step: will add more PLD chips.
FIXED: GAL22V10B M95320W M95128W

TL866 Upgrade History:

VERSION: V6.85 Support:14337--2018.10.19
ADD: ATF20V8B
FIXED: GAL22V10B M95320W M95128W
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 01:21:48 am by PCB.Wiz »
 

Online moffy

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2023, 01:05:16 am »
On this forum: https://www.applefritter.com/content/v2-analog  one of the responders states:
"I have had no trouble finding Atmel or Lattice 16V8 not any issues programming them with my Minipro TL866-II.  I don't use the Windows software though (don't have Windows), I use the Open Source software on Linux." Perhaps if you could set up a Linux machine you might have better success.

P.S. Had a look at the source code: https://gitlab.com/DavidGriffith/minipro  and in "infoic.xml" the ATF16V8C is listed as a device.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 01:58:51 am by moffy »
 

Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2023, 06:40:18 am »
Ah... OK so maybe I just don't have programmer support for the device in hand....

Can anyone suggest a relatively cheap contemporary programmer that has good GAL support?

My "TL866A" was an eBay purchase approx 10Y ago at a time when Dave reviewed it on the channel. It may well be a copy/clone and I'm pretty sure the firmware hasn't moved on (or cannot move on)

Maybe I should just update to a XGecu T48?
 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2023, 08:39:31 am »
Ah... OK so maybe I just don't have programmer support for the device in hand....

Can anyone suggest a relatively cheap contemporary programmer that has good GAL support?

My "TL866A" was an eBay purchase approx 10Y ago at a time when Dave reviewed it on the channel. It may well be a copy/clone and I'm pretty sure the firmware hasn't moved on (or cannot move on)

Maybe I should just update to a XGecu T48?
If you have a linux machine you could try the open source code linked just above ?
Otherwise, the T48 does not look a bad price ?
The T56 has more devices, but that comes with a step in the price too !

I should check their latest SW... been a couple of years since I tried it.

Hmm.. It seems they still do not support JED vector testing ?
I loaded a JED file with test vectors included, and it has no options for post program read/run of the JED test vectors. Shame.

 Strangely, they do have vector test of logic ICs, that has almost all commands WinCUPL uses.
I see 0,1,H,L,Z,X, G, V,  and C (= _/=\_ ) but missing is K (= ==\_/==) negative clock, and N = power pin

Addit : I see someone also asked for 'K' test back in 2021, 'coming' ?
and JEDEC test vector handling was asked for again in May 2022
http://forums.xgecu.com/redirect.php?tid=537&goto=lastpost
so they do know it is needed ?

« Last Edit: August 24, 2023, 09:48:53 am by PCB.Wiz »
 

Offline uliano

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2023, 08:13:13 am »
I have T48, ATF16V8B and still the verification fails and the reading gives completely different result from what's written.

Up to now I made just a silly test and the chip seem to follow what I programmed.

EDIT:

however ANYTHING more complex has been failing...  |O
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 09:37:11 am by uliano »
 
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Offline dobsonr741

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Offline NivagSwerdnaTopic starter

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2023, 03:59:58 pm »
In the end I bought a T56 XGecu and my programming problems disappeared.

I've also added some 16V8 stock from https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/splds/1278208 to keep some of my projects alive.
 
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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2023, 07:10:07 pm »
I have T48, ATF16V8B and still the verification fails and the reading gives completely different result from what's written.
Up to now I made just a silly test and the chip seem to follow what I programmed.
EDIT:
however ANYTHING more complex has been failing...  |O
You could report the issue on their forum, with the exact part numbers, and date code of the parts?
Response is not quick, but hopefully you go into the queue.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 07:15:49 pm by PCB.Wiz »
 

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Re: Lattice GAL16V8D availability?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2023, 07:13:06 pm »
In the end I bought a T56 XGecu and my programming problems disappeared.

I've also added some 16V8 stock from https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/splds/1278208 to keep some of my projects alive.
Good to see a working point.
Do you run test vectors ?
Can you give your atf16v8 date codes, which may help #11?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2023, 07:14:47 pm by PCB.Wiz »
 


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