Battleborn - hazard by design -

[eTobey]

I am a bit surprised, that this video hasnt made its way into this forum:


Here is an answer from the manufacturer:


I wonder how many fires this battery has started, since this design is 6 years old. Also I wonder how nothing happend in all those years in regards to the design. There was one user in the comments, saying, that he has reached out to the manufacturer, and nothing happend. I am truly blown away, by the answer from the company. Companies these days... 

[OldBeginner]

Yes you're right

[tggzzz]

The creator of those videos is interested in gathering clicks and selling your eyeballs to advertisers[1].

It would be more useful if he showed the text of the correspondence with the manufacturer, rather than a pictures of his head and mouth nattering about an unclear screenshot.

[1]

"FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:
Every video includes paid promotion or sponsorship (such as free products for review). Some links on this YouTube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com

[eTobey]

It would be more useful if he showed the text of the correspondence with the manufacturer, rather than a pictures of his head and mouth nattering about an unclear screenshot.

When I see the quality of this product, then I would not question the response, if it has the same "quality", for now.

Are you saying, that he just made it up, or is saying it a bit differently?

[tggzzz]

It would be more useful if he showed the text of the correspondence with the manufacturer, rather than a pictures of his head and mouth nattering about an unclear screenshot.

When I see the quality of this product, then I would not question the response, if it has the same "quality", for now.

Are you saying, that he just made it up, or is saying it a bit differently?

I am saying what I wrote.

[eTobey]

It would be more useful if he showed the text of the correspondence with the manufacturer, rather than a pictures of his head and mouth nattering about an unclear screenshot.

Actually i had a look: the screenshot can be read. You may want to use some better devices to read it. 
You dont like him, do you?

[mikerj]

The creator of those videos is interested in gathering clicks and selling your eyeballs to advertisers[1].

It would be more useful if he showed the text of the correspondence with the manufacturer, rather than a pictures of his head and mouth nattering about an unclear screenshot.

The screenshot is quite easily readable on my old 1080p 24" monitor.  He didn't misrepresent anything the manufacturer said within that email:

"The aluminium nut used in our 100Ah packs' positive terminal is a purpose-built thermal failsafe.  It is engineered so that the plastic deforms and disconnects when excess heat is present at the terminal"

This is blatant excuse to try to explain away a serious design problem.  If you wanted to add thermal protection to a high current device, would you design in a high resistance contact that generates enough heat to melt the housing which may or may not result in a circuit disconnection depending on the external mechanical force on a terminal, or would you use a thermal fuse?

[eTobey]

More of the design. 

[mtwieg]

The creator of those videos is interested in gathering clicks and selling your eyeballs to advertisers[1].

Certainly true, but there is certainly a design defect in this battery, and a very severe one IMO. The response from Battleborn is particularly shocking in its gaslighting.

That being said, the youtuber is being far too reckless when discussing safety. That's the kind of mistake which could easily open you up to a lawsuit.

[oPossum]

[thm_w]

Its just common sense that you don't have a plastic interface involved in a high current circuit, as Prowse says.

It looks like they did this mechanically to hold the pack and cells together, and hold that busbar up high. Probably reduce assembly time and cost too. But there are 100 other ways to do it without clamping directly on the plastic.

There is no way that this is an intentional thermal failsafe, but presumably they wanted to double down instead of redesigning the pack and sending out replacements.

[eTobey]

There is no way that this is an intentional thermal failsafe, but presumably they wanted to double down instead of redesigning the pack and sending out replacements.

It was said in the response of the manufacturer, that indeed this is a "feature". In other words: it was intentional (as they said).

[mikerj]

There is no way that this is an intentional thermal failsafe, but presumably they wanted to double down instead of redesigning the pack and sending out replacements.

It was said in the response of the manufacturer, that indeed this is a "feature". In other words: it was intentional (as they said).

Because they are trying to hide the fact that it is a serious design flaw.  The clamping force on the bus bar is already inadequate from new (because the plastic creeps) and gets hot enough to soften the plastic at currents below it's rated maximum, reducing clamping force further and entering a molten plastic death spiral.

[eTobey]

There is a new video:

[MarkL]

I have eight of these batteries, six in my RV and two powering a UPS, purchased about 4 years ago.  I haven't had any issues, yet, but all these revelations are rather sickening given the price I paid.  I need to do some serious testing when the weather gets warmer here in the northeast US.

Battleborn's warranty service is apparently very risky from a cost perspective, according to this RV'er who had a bunch of failed BB batteries:

  http://grandadventure.tv/2026/01/28/ep-448-battle-born-battery-failure-warranty-reality-check-rv-lifepo4-lithium-batteries/

TLDW: Once BB approved a return RMA, he would need to prepay a return shipping fee of $235, which would be refunded only if they determine it was their fault.  PLUS he would also be charged a $300 labor fee if they determine it wasn't their fault.  Per battery.  And of course there's also the outgoing shipping cost, which is sunk in any case.

Given how BB has handled the PR on this so far, I don't think there's any chance they would admit fault.

The printed warranty that came with my batteries doesn't mention any of the extra fees.  The guy in the video decided to throw his batteries away (properly), and replace them all with another manufacturer for not much more cost than ONE rejected warranty claim.  Sounds like a good option to me.

[hackman]

If these teardown videos were done by someone with a bit more gravitas (purposefulness, humourlessness ?) they would be taken a lot more seriously, but while I can see the obvious problems with the batteries, I find the videos painful to watch.   

[Seekonk]

Hey, what do you expect.  These reviews are freebies.  He normally charges manufacturers $15K or more to do a review.  He has done quite well with this business model considering he was once homeless.  He communicates well with the technical level of the solar world without having any technical education.

[wraper]

Designed by some clown who has zero clue what they're doing. Tightening through a plastic a big no. Passing current through a screw is ridiculous. Interconnects between cell blocks are as bad, the same tightening through plastic issue. Also I bet that BMS is not fused like 99% of such Chinese BMS, they're not safe with no additional fusing. They should rebrand to Arseborn.

[thm_w]

Designed by some clown who has zero clue what they're doing. Tightening through a plastic a big no. Passing current through a screw is ridiculous. Interconnects between cell blocks are as bad, the same tightening through plastic issue. Also I bet that BMS is not fused like 99% of such Chinese BMS, they're not safe with no additional fusing. They should rebrand to Arseborn.

Yes he recommends using an external fuse or breaker: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/fuses.html
Since the case is sealed, having a fuse inside would not be great if it blows.

[wraper]

Designed by some clown who has zero clue what they're doing. Tightening through a plastic a big no. Passing current through a screw is ridiculous. Interconnects between cell blocks are as bad, the same tightening through plastic issue. Also I bet that BMS is not fused like 99% of such Chinese BMS, they're not safe with no additional fusing. They should rebrand to Arseborn.

Yes he recommends using an external fuse or breaker: https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/fuses.html
Since the case is sealed, having a fuse inside would not be great if it blows.

Fuse is the last resort if BMS fails. What's even more not great, it setting your house on fire.

[jheissjr]

USD $500 three years ago. Now $3. Time to buy?   https://www.cnn.com/markets/stocks/DFLI

[mtwieg]

Typically I don't look to stonks to evaluate a company or technology, but I am curious wtf happened there...

[wraper]

Another ridiculous design (in a different way). Like how difficult is it to actually connect cells to the busbars? I guess inventing square wheels is in fashion these days.

[eTobey]

And now think of that these batteries are quite expensive!
I am amazed, that this rubbish producing company even still exists!

[jheissjr]

 

I am curious wtf happened

Three months ago a boat company said they are starting to use of Battleborn batteries in their boats. Another company said they are starting to use the batteries in railroad cars. Battleborns reputation is ruined and somehow managers of these companies are using Battleborn batteries in their products. I don't know why they are so high in the clouds. I still haven't been able to uncover why the stock crashed to a penny stock.