CFW for KSGER/Quicko STM32 Soldering Stations

[Tugo]

Some people are having problems with oscillation.
PIDs can have its own problems with some tips on default values.
That is why I suggested 45-0-0 to see how things are going and to see how iron settings are contributing to oscillations.
Trying different settings in iron along with different PID settings could be the solution. I know I had some problems at first and I had to lower PID values so that I had a stable response with different iron settings (in IRON menu). I used my worst tip that I had and tried so many times to see how it reacts to different settings. When I found it I tried PID settings as YOU suggested. You gave me a great advise regarding PID settings but that was possible after I set everything under IRON menu.
I tried many times to explain and you never liked it. I don't know if you even try to understand what I wrote so many times or you just know a lot better about this (I don't have any knowledge I just know I what I see) and I just had luck with my testing. It is your firmware and you are the boss (I understand that and I am fine with it) but please don't tell us to do some work and to share what we do if you don't like it then. All I explained here is how I did my settings when I had problems.

[wickated]

Please, just tell what's currently wrong, listing old bugs is simply confusing.

thats cuz i listed 1 bug before and that bug was not viable, but then i got another one and had to check if they have common source. newest build has fixes, i can even select temp while handle in stand. this makes me happy 

[DavidAlfa]

But you're runnign at 1mS, which is proved to not be correct 
With your suggested settings, I only get 100% power  if the temp is under 60ºC below the setpoint. The it drops to 50% 30ºC below, and only 25% 15ºC away.
So where's your power? Are you fine with that?
Let me explain what's happening: It's like if you put a giant delay before your magical 1mS number. The PWM has been already stopped for a long time befor the delay has even started. And that's why it works.
Some you guys hype about the lowest delay, fastest pwm, while that's not the important. The only thing that matters is doing it right!
Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but definitely 45-0-0 isn't a solution, just a cheap workaround. It's like if put a brick under the gas pedal in your car because it shakes when you push it too far.
There's something else that needs to be adjusted, probably timing.


I switched the filter calculation to floats to best accuracy.
Also, I took an old idea that was abandoned back then.
Resetting the Integrator acumulator when the difference is huge, so it doesn't overshoot like crazy.
But this time I used a different approach: Check for proportional output, if it's already saturating the pid output, clear the integrator.
When the temperature gets closer to the setpoint and the proportional starts going down, then the integral part starts working.

I've been tweaking the filter and pid settings for hours now. The new settings are amazingly accurate. For sure ksger will have trouble...
New builds available, hopefully they'll work ok.

[StephenR0]

So, I flashed the new version on my Quicko.  Not too much seems to have changed.  I like the new filter percentage.  I played around with that from up to 90% and down to 20%.  In the end, I went back to 65%.  Then I set Kd to 50.  Again, it seemed to cycle about four degrees, but the measured temperature seemed quite stable only varying about two maybe up to three degrees.

I did look into what it would take to change the opamp.  It looks like the one that I'd need to change is U4, which must be on the other side of the board under the screen.  U3 is called out in the schematic and is on the board where it's easy to get at.  But it says it's not connected to the handle.  Very inconvenient.    I think I'll run it this way for now.

[DavidAlfa]

I doubt it's the amp.
As far as I know only Ksger mounts crappy amps!
I wouldn't bother more for just 3°C oscillation.
When it's a slow oscillation, try lowering the filter %, might help.
But it's easier to make It much worse!

[Tugo]

But you're runnign at 1mS, which is proved to not be correct 

I believe you but I still don't know why.

With your suggested settings, I only get 100% power  if the temp is under 60ºC below the setpoint. The it drops to 50% 30ºC below, and only 25% 15ºC away.
So where's your power? Are you fine with that?

Actually, yes, I am fine with it and that is why I always wanted to have a smaller delay. Exactly for that reason. With 200/20 you get slow start where you need a full power. After you don't need full power it pretty much doesn't matter if you have 200/1 or 200/50.

Let me explain what's happening: It's like if you put a giant delay before your magical 1mS number. The PWM has been already stopped for a long time befor the delay has even started. And that's why it works.

This is what I always wanted to explain you in the first place but you never wanted to hear me. As I already told you I believe you could be correct but I really cannot see that. In case you have any kind of link or anything else so that I could understand why I am wrong (or you are correct) please give it to me because I would really like to know where my thinking is way off.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but definitely 45-0-0 isn't a solution, just a cheap workaround. It's like if put a brick under the gas pedal in your car because it shakes when you push it too far.
There's something else that needs to be adjusted, probably timing.

It is not a cheap workaround. It is something I explained why is this needed if my thinking is not wrong. Larger timing (20 or 20+) are not good on my PCB version.

I've been tweaking the filter and pid settings for hours now. The new settings are amazingly accurate. For sure ksger will have trouble...

Hoping for the best   
And thank you for a new build! 

[DavidAlfa]

200/20 slow Start? Are you kidding me?
Your way takes 30 seconds to fully heat

[Tugo]

I don't understand it how. Can you please explain how is that possible?

[wickated]

I don't understand it how. Can you please explain how is that possible?

u have to get some I and D to deliver full power to tip. and its more viable than fast pwn and so on

[DavidAlfa]

How what? 200/20 "only" puts 90% of the power, so it will heat really slowly, right?
While killing the PID, using only a poor proportional value and causing the power to drop to 50..25...10% much sooner than it would do with a proper pid, will heat faster? 

[Tugo]

AHA!!!! So I will have to do a lot more test about this.
So my test when comparing different timings with the same PID is really not a test. Crap.

Can you give me a starting point by telling me which PID coefficients are "fast" and which are "slow" if I would use 200/20?
Filter will be set to 4. PWM multi is oscillating if I set it more than 2x on 200/20.

Just to give you my settings on the tip I tested and it is not oscillating: 100/1/1x/ filter 4, PIDs are 100/30/10/0.4

THANK YOU GUYS!

[Tugo]

I don't understand it how. Can you please explain how is that possible?

u have to get some I and D to deliver full power to tip. and its more viable than fast pwn and so on

I wasn't talking about 45-0-0. I was talking how to set IRON settings in menu and find stable settings before setting PID settings for each tip. All of the tips have the same IRON settings and each tip has their own PID settings. So first you need to find stable period, delay,... settings before sou can set PID. That is all I wanted to point out.

[DavidAlfa]

What about the current defaults?
Leave the delay untouched for tweaking, it won't harm.
Once you found good settings you might try lowering it.
Make a video of the oscillations and I might be able to recognize the pattern.

[Tugo]

So I should leave everything under IRON settings at default and set Cal values and then try different PID settings?
I have version 2021.08.04b. Do I need new version?

I will be on vacation until Friday so that I will not be able to do any test from tomorrow.

[DavidAlfa]

You always need a new version if it exists
Start with defaults, just calibrate

[wickated]

so bug revisited me
sometimes when handle went to sleep rising from stand goes only to stanby. need to restart system.

[dark_hawk]

Hi,

I've been trying the new versions, and I have some issues with some tips that used to work flawlessly on the older version.
This D12 tip used to have smooth lines, stable power meter, and no fluctuation at all.
Now it looks like this with no load (With the power meter going back and forth like it's possessed):


And like this with load:


I tried playing with filter percentage and PID values but don't seem to find the sweet spot to make it act like before.
How do I processed?

[DavidAlfa]

Try increasing the spikes limit to 3 or 4?

Old settings (not that different, but you see it doesn't need much to go completely mad )

Pid: 60-60-20-0.50

Filter:
Normal/spikes: 75
Partial: 50
Reset: 0

Spike limit: 2
Threshold: 300-500
Reset limit: 700


First, only change the filter settings and test the results.

[dark_hawk]

Try increasing the spikes limit to 3 or 4?

Old settings (not that different, but you see it doesn't need much to go completely mad )

Pid: 60-60-20-0.50

Filter:
Normal/spikes: 75
Partial: 50
Reset: 0

Spike limit: 2
Threshold: 300-500
Reset limit: 700


First, only change the filter settings and test the results.

I don't mean settings, I mean older versions of the firmware.
I'm still getting those spikes that gets way worse with the sponge test/load test. And overshoots a lot when heating up or recovering from load.
I changed filter settings, and PID settings, going over and under your suggested values.
Here is a few screen shots from the 31/07 version, that one had very smooth response when heating/load.

[DavidAlfa]

That version was slightly different. Try this:
Threshold 50-150
Normal filtering 50
Partial filtering 25
Reset limit 0
Reset filter 0

[dark_hawk]

I don't understand where to put these numbers.
The ADV Filter menu:
Threshold
  End
  Filter
Spike Limit
  Filter
Reset Limit (Does not go to zero)
 Filter

And there is the filter value in the Iron menu.

[DavidAlfa]

normal filtering is the option in iron menu (not adv. menu)
threshold 50
end 150
spike limit 0
Yeah sorry set reset limit to 700.

I'll have a look at that when I have free time.

[tatel]

Hi,

I've been trying the new versions, and I have some issues with some tips that used to work flawlessly on the older version.
This D12 tip used to have smooth lines, stable power meter, and no fluctuation at all.
Now it looks like this with no load (With the power meter going back and forth like it's possessed):
(Attachment Link)

And like this with load:
(Attachment Link)

I tried playing with filter percentage and PID values but don't seem to find the sweet spot to make it act like before.
How do I processed?

When I see those spikes and the power bar pumping like crazy, I know I need a lower Kd value. My D24 wants to have Kd=3. D52 has Kd=15. I keep lowering Kd until those spikes disappear and power bar behaves easy.

Generally speaking, I find that Kd=20 a little bit excesive. With default values, I'm getting resets while calibrating at 450º. Lowering Kd solves it.

[dark_hawk]

normal filtering is the option in iron menu (not adv. menu)
threshold 50
end 150
spike limit 0
Yeah sorry set reset limit to 700.

I'll have a look at that when I have free time.

Changing those values does not help. Still very spiky and overshoots when heating up and recovering.
Strange thing is that tip used to behave very nicely using old firmwares. May I ask what is the difference between those two versions of the firmware.

When I see those spikes and the power bar pumping like crazy, I know I need a lower Kd value. My D24 wants to have Kd=3. D52 has Kd=15. I keep lowering Kd until those spikes disappear and power bar behaves easy.

Generally speaking, I find that Kd=20 a little bit excesive. With default values, I'm getting resets while calibrating at 450º. Lowering Kd solves it.

Thanks for the reply. I tried lowering the Kd as low as 2, and that does not help much. Problem is Kd that low will make recovering from a load overshoot a lot and takes a lot of time to regulate back to set temperature.

Edit: after a few resets, lowering the Kd to 4 seems to remove those spikes.But is it not a bit excessive to have to lower Kd so low for the tip to behave correctly?

[Cuboy]

I've tried to flash my ksger t12 without success, i erased and tried to flash and i always get an error saying that i need to upgrade the firmware, when i upgrade i get an error saying "Upgrade error, please try again".

So my ksger isn't working for now....

Edit: I managed to upgrade the firmware, a new error im getting is
Erasing memory corresponding to segment 0:
Erasing internal memory sectors [0 97]
Error: failed to erase memory


Error: failed to erase memory


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Edit2: I managed to install the new firmware, but the oled screen doesn't light up