What's still not clear to me is why this issue has not been taken up directly with the seller
Where I live, large electrical goods stores sell items such as washing machines, TV's, tablets, printers etc, etc. If you take it home and it doesn't work for some reason they try to tell you to take up a claim with the manufacturer, to which I have always argued successfully, I gave my money to the store, not the OEM so it's the stores that has to refund/replace the defective item. The dealings between the reseller and the OEM are none of my business. My business is with the person I gave my money to
I tried first with the seller without success.
Then I tried with VE because they were partners.
That's not true, you did not try with the seller !
You could had solve your problem very easily 6 months ago, but you did not.
You only had to make a claim against the seller to the brazilian PROCON and ask to a refund.
The seller had to refund your money rapidly because PROCON could apply a high fine if not.
But you did not this.
The real reason you protect the seller who cheat on you is to discredit all VE re-sellers of São Paulo and prejudice those other sellers who are not dishonest.
In fact, you encourage the crime by impunity.
The dishonest seller remains with your money and you threaten VE of a legal action and you mess VE name publicly on this forum to try to blackmail and to try to force VE to take the responsability of acts they did not commit.
You may be a victim initially, but your behavior is no better than the one of the dishonest seller.
I agree with you.
Unfortunately only VE could explain to us the real situation of that reseller.
They were an authorized reseller, as said by Mr. Turemen.
If they aren't anymore, when that relationship finished?
Yes, it is important to find out if they were official or already sacked/cancelled/removed, at the time of your purchase. Good idea!
But also what the ebay (or similar) advert said in it. Did it explicitly say it was the official dealership of VE ?
You mentioned contact/emails , but that does not really count, in my opinion. As a dodgy seller, could say anything they liked, especially if dishonest.
That's not true, you did not try with the seller !
You could had solve your problem very easily 6 months ago, but you did not.
You only had to make a claim against the seller to the brazilian PROCON and ask to a refund.
The seller had to refund your money rapidly because PROCON could apply a high fine if not.
But you did not this.
The real reason you protect the seller who cheat on you is to discredit all VE re-sellers of São Paulo and prejudice those other sellers who are not dishonest.
In fact, you encourage the crime by impunity.
The dishonest seller remains with your money and you threaten EV of a legal action and you mess VE name publicly on this forum to try to blackmail and to try to force EV to take the responsability of acts they did not commit.
You may be a victim initially, but your behavior is no better than the one of the dishonest seller.
Your opinion is not the last truth of the world.
I agree with you.
Unfortunately only VE could explain to us the real situation of that reseller.
They were an authorized reseller, as said by Mr. Turemen.
If they aren't anymore, when that relationship finished?
Yes, it is important to find out if they were official or already sacked/cancelled/removed, at the time of your purchase. Good idea!
But also what the ebay (or similar) advert said in it. Did it explicitly say it was the official dealership of VE ?
You mentioned contact/emails , but that does not really count, in my opinion. As a dodgy seller, could say anything they liked, especially if dishonest.
The advertising didn't said anything related with authorized reseller. Only after the first contact it was unveiled.
The advertising didn't said anything related with authorized reseller. Only after the first contact it was unveiled.
That could be a big problem then, as I see it.
Since it could be decided that you did not "officially" buy it from a reseller.
tl;dr
You bought it from the ebay "seller" (or similar org to ebay), which if it is NOT mentioned in the listing/advert details, is NOT the official reseller.
Your opinion is not the last truth of the world.
And your story without any evidence is not fooling anyone.
You have still not answered to my questions...
What is the name of the seller? We are asking you this from the beginning...If your story is true, you don't have any reason to omit this information.
What is the name of the website where you purchased the device?
How have you checked that the seller is an authorized seller ?
Did the name of the seller appeared on the general website of Vision Enineering?
The advertising didn't said anything related with authorized reseller. Only after the first contact it was unveiled.
That could be a big problem then, as I see it.
Since it could be decided that you did not "officially" buy it from a reseller.
tl;dr
You bought it from the ebay "seller" (or similar org to ebay), which if it is NOT mentioned in the listing/advert details, is NOT the official reseller.
No, I think it is not clear yet.
Suppose you are walking on the Tmes Square and you see an luminous advertising of a Mantis Elite with a contact. You call them and they say they are an VE authorized reseller. You do a research and they really are. Your transaction involves different persons of that company.
Your purchase is from an ad in the street or from the authorized reseller?
The authorized reseller becomes less authorized because the ad?
No, I think it is not clear yet.
Suppose you are walking on the Tmes Square and you see an luminous advertising of a Mantis Elite with a contact. You call them and they say they are an VE authorized reseller. You do a research and they really are. Your transaction involves different persons of that company.
Your purchase is from an ad in the street or from the authorized reseller?
The authorized reseller becomes less authorized because the ad?
Did you get a receipt/invoice after you bought it ?
Often included in the packaging, when it first arrived to you.
Who does that say the seller was ?
If it lists the official reseller, then you are in the clear. (if they were still official resellers at the time of sale)
E.g.
XYZelectronics OFFICIAL resellers of VE equipment,
1234567 Brazilian Street,
EEVforum way,
Brazil 12345 ABCDE
But if it says
XYZ,
1234 Dishonest way,
Dodgy goods district,
Lawless Land,
Brazil.
Then it is not so clear cut, especially if the address details do not match any official resellers, at the time of sale.
tl;dr
If the receipt/invoice specifically says "official VE resellers" on it
No, I think it is not clear yet.
Suppose you are walking on the Tmes Square and you see an luminous advertising of a Mantis Elite with a contact. You call them and they say they are an VE authorized reseller. You do a research and they really are. Your transaction involves different persons of that company.
Your purchase is from an ad in the street or from the authorized reseller?
The authorized reseller becomes less authorized because the ad?
Did you get a receipt/invoice after you bought it ?
Often included in the packaging, when it first arrived to you.
Who does that say the seller was ?
If it lists the official reseller, then you are in the clear. (if they were still official resellers at the time of sale)
E.g.
XYZelectronics OFFICIAL resellers of VE equipment,
1234567 Brazilian Street,
EEVforum way,
Brazil 12345 ABCDE
But if it says
XYZ,
1234 Dishonest way,
Dodgy goods district,
Lawless Land,
Brazil.
Then it is not so clear cut, especially if the address details do not match any official resellers, at the time of sale.
tl;dr
If the receipt/invoice specifically says "official VE resellers" on it
Yes, I have that with the authorized reseller data, including address, fiscal number (CNPJ), and so on.
Yes, I have that with the authorized reseller data, including address, fiscal number (CNPJ), and so on.
Then it should be official.
If they were sacked/cancelled from being the official resellers, at the time of the sale. Then that would probably be fraud/dishonesty on the part of the sellers.
Yes, I have that with the authorized reseller data, including address, fiscal number (CNPJ), and so on.
Then it should be official.
If they were sacked/cancelled from being the official resellers, at the time of the sale. Then that would probably be fraud/dishonesty on the part of the sellers.
But that seller sells other products, of other brands too. They could have no ties with VE and still be working.
In the fiscal document there is no declaration like I'm an VE authorized reseller.
I do not want to believe people who can buy Mantis is so naive.
Cutting through all the authorised or non auhorised. When you buy a Demo set, it normally comes without warranty. And if there is warranty, it is never between OEM and the buyer, and strictly between seller and buyer. You have to trust the seller is around to back the warranty.
Getting VE involved is already unfair. Pushing it hard does not show the naivity but something more than that. If you are newbie to the industry that can afford to buy Mantis then it is a different matters.
Your opinion is not the last truth of the world.
And your story without any evidence is not fooling anyone.
You have still not answered to my questions...
What is the name of the seller? We are asking you this from the beginning...If your story is true, you don't have any reason to omit this information.
What is the name of the website where you purchased the device?
How have you checked that the seller is an authorized seller ?
Did the name of the seller appeared on the general website of Vision Enineering?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/frustrating-after-sale-vision-engineering-mantis-elite/msg1050355/#msg1050355
No answer there...You wrote you will not gave the name of the seller and you do not answer to the other questions...
I do not want to believe people who can buy Mantis is so naive.
Cutting through all the authorised or non auhorised. When you buy a Demo set, it normally comes without warranty. And if there is warranty, it is never between OEM and the buyer, and strictly between seller and buyer. You have to trust the seller is around to back the warranty.
Getting VE involved is already unfair. Pushing it hard does not show the naivity but something more than that. If you are newbie to the industry that can afford to buy Mantis then it is a different matters.
I don't think thet getting VE involved is unfair.
The authorized dealer carry the VE trademark and it has a big weigh in the consumer decision. When they say "We are a Vision's local reseller/distribuitor" they are bringing trust to the table, because the consumer expect a support from the manufacturer, buying from authorized resellers. Otherwise it would be a gray market product, without any kind of support except from the seller.
When the dealer and VE do an agreement (or whatever business relationship) to the dealer sell VE equipment, the dealer is exploring new markets, expanding VE presence in Brazil, bringing VE equipments to local technical fair and exibitions, presenting VE products to potential clients and so on. All this supported by VE, including providing demo equipments.
If everything goes well it is good for VE and for the dealer, and it is fair.
What I was expecting is if something goes wrong, mainly a harm to the consumer, that the manufacturer take responsibility to solve the problem and after that handle the problem with the partner as an internal problem
I do not want to believe people who can buy Mantis is so naive.
Cutting through all the authorised or non auhorised. When you buy a Demo set, it normally comes without warranty. And if there is warranty, it is never between OEM and the buyer, and strictly between seller and buyer. You have to trust the seller is around to back the warranty.
Getting VE involved is already unfair. Pushing it hard does not show the naivity but something more than that. If you are newbie to the industry that can afford to buy Mantis then it is a different matters.
rodpp wrote : "To open a case in court is always my last resource, I was trying to solve this directly with the authorized reseller and with Vision Engineering without success." and also that he know very well the laws and the brazilian legal ressource....Why does he not open a case in court 6 month later ?
That's not because it's always (always ? is he accustomed to initiate legal action ?) his last ressource...but because he already consulted a lawyer ...
After reading this thread, are you confortable to buy a Vision Engineering product from them or any other authorized reseller in Brazil?
And more, do you think there is some difference buying from one of these authorized resellers or buying from some street shop without relationships with VE?
you can get from authorized seller a paper scam and you can also get as promised product from someone on the street. it depend on honesty of a "personality". you cannot blame other resellers or even VE for what you've experienced, prejudice is not needed. if you just name the reseller from where you get the item, everybody can get alarmed of the specific name. what you are trying to do is to protect the criminal identity and to highlight the innocent or probably others who have no direct relation to your problem. that is just plain unfair.
I agree with you that things can go wrong with anyone, what is frustrating to me is how VE handled their authorized reseller mistake.
I am not blaming all resellers of the world, but I think it's better to choose wise the reseller when buying VE equipment, I had a problem with one authorized reseller and they washed their hands.
I will not expose the reseller name, to me is suficiente to say they are/were an authorized reseller. If you read again the Mr. Turemen answer he point a great possibility of the unit sold to me be property of VE, so a stolen item after the sale. It is very serious and I can/could not know the true. So it would be a irresponsibility of my side to expose the seller name.
excuse not accepted. bragging around protecting malign and at the same time
exposing innocent is plain unjust, that's it, however you give excuses. if you want to be just and fair when protecting malign, you should also protect everybody esp who are not in direct contact with your case.
you blame VE for not handling their REP properly, but hiding the fact the REP is doing malign to you and choose not to race the case with the REP, or create a thread about them, instead of this VE thread. if you think clearly, VE has conflict of interest, at some aspect they need to protect their REP while at the same time they also need to protect their reputation and sales.. the last resort and wise for them is find another REP, but that will not be a quick decision while you brag around here. the guy who just posted here highly likely is a support guy with the nicest lip you can have, for management up there do you think they give a rat arse about you? esp when the fault is not on their side? put yourself in their position and you'll know.
why dont you blame yourself for purchasing a used (demo) item at cheaper price from a dishonest personel in the REP seller and promise to yourself never again will you engage in such "too good to be true" deal? you get what you pay. you blame yourself, you will get improved, everybody innocent safe. you blame others, you get worse, everybody got affected by your bad influence, just like fungus...
For me, that's clear that it is a true blackmail.
After reading this thread, are you confortable to buy a Vision Engineering product from them or any other authorized reseller in Brazil?
And more, do you think there is some difference buying from one of these authorized resellers or buying from some street shop without relationships with VE?
you can get from authorized seller a paper scam and you can also get as promised product from someone on the street. it depend on honesty of a "personality". you cannot blame other resellers or even VE for what you've experienced, prejudice is not needed. if you just name the reseller from where you get the item, everybody can get alarmed of the specific name. what you are trying to do is to protect the criminal identity and to highlight the innocent or probably others who have no direct relation to your problem. that is just plain unfair.
I agree with you that things can go wrong with anyone, what is frustrating to me is how VE handled their authorized reseller mistake.
I am not blaming all resellers of the world, but I think it's better to choose wise the reseller when buying VE equipment, I had a problem with one authorized reseller and they washed their hands.
I will not expose the reseller name, to me is suficiente to say they are/were an authorized reseller. If you read again the Mr. Turemen answer he point a great possibility of the unit sold to me be property of VE, so a stolen item after the sale. It is very serious and I can/could not know the true. So it would be a irresponsibility of my side to expose the seller name.
excuse not accepted. bragging around protecting malign and at the same time exposing innocent is plain unjust, that's it, however you give excuses. if you want to be just and fair when protecting malign, you should also protect everybody esp who are not in direct contact with your case.
you blame VE for not handling their REP properly, but hiding the fact the REP is doing malign to you and choose not to race the case with the REP, or create a thread about them, instead of this VE thread. if you think clearly, VE has conflict of interest, at some aspect they need to protect their REP while at the same time they also need to protect their reputation and sales.. the last resort and wise for them is find another REP, but that will not be a quick decision while you brag around here. the guy who just posted here highly likely is a support guy with the nicest lip you can have, for management up there do you think they give a rat arse about you? esp when the fault is not on their side? put yourself in their position and you'll know.
why dont you blame yourself for purchasing a used (demo) item at cheaper price from a dishonest personel in the REP seller and promise to yourself never again will you engage in such "too good to be true" deal? you get what you pay. you blame yourself, you will get improved, everybody innocent safe. you blame others, you get worse, everybody got affected by your bad influence, just like fungus...
I paid almost 7K Brazilian Real, it is not too good to be true for a demo unit. Just a fair price from an authorized reseller in my opinion. And I didn't got what I paid, unfortunately. The minimum wage here is 880 Brazilian Real.
The VE and the authorized reseller were partners, VE supported them to sell they products. The "malign" were supported by the innocent.
I am not protecting malign and exposing innocent. I was frustrated with the VE behavior and because that I opened this thread.
The seller could be anyone, in anywhere. They cheated me and I know how to proceed against then here in Brazil and likely I will soon. But I can't see the point in opening a thread in Eevblog.com complaining about a local seller in Brazil. But I see in opening this thread about how VE handled the case.
They cheated me and I know how to proceed against then here in Brazil and likely I will soon.
Yes, do this first and come back here after you have a court decision that condemns VE and prove that your complaints against them are legitimate.
This thread is going nowhere and getting filled up with pointless posts. Time to give it a rest, I think.
It would appear to me that the OP has absolutely no claim against VE at all. Their rep has clearly stated that the equipment in question was to be utilised as DEMONSTRATION UNITS, and expressly NOT for resale. If the seller decided to sell equipment that was not his to sell, then the case is against the seller, not the manufacturer. Not sure how the law is in Brazil, but any case against the manufacturer would be thrown out in the US IMO.