Frustrating after sale Vision Engineering - Mantis Elite

[Simon]

You should be dealing with your local distributor through YOUR countries law enforcement. What VE do with respect to their distributor is their problem and not something you have any right to know about, they have nothing to do with you an operate under a different legal juridstiction. Why don't you name and shame and bad mouth the reseller instead of make a case against an innocent manufacturer that has it's hands tied ? When two companies are in two different countries legal action is much harder, usually commercial factors play a bigger role, VE does not own the reseller. You requests and expectations are totally unreasonable and you are just making a buffoon of yourself.

[oldway]

You are a liar and a crook.

In Brazil, one must be wary of everyone and everything and you knows this because you are Brazilian.

In Brazil, no one would buy a used equipment that cost more than 6.000 R$ on a website without taking basic precautions, such as going on site to check the status of what you buy.

You say you are an innocent victim, this is not true.

You bought this equipment in the full knowledge that there was a problem, you take risks and you lost.

You are fundamentally dishonest because you use your errors to try to win the jackpot by blackmailing.

No, you do not want just that VE will refund yours 6KR$ !!!!

You want a new Mantis Elite which value in Brazil  is more than double of this money.

The proof of your dishonesty is obvious: you have all the facilities to resolve the problem quickly by appealing to the PROCON, but you did not.

Instead, you come on a forum publicly sully the name of VE to blackmail.

Your attitude is disgusting and  instead of VE, I would not do any favour for you, you do not deserve it.

[rodpp]

You should be dealing with your local distributor through YOUR countries law enforcement.

I never discarded this, just tried to solve this with VE before because they are business partners.

What VE do with respect to their distributor is their problem and not something you have any right to know about, they have nothing to do with you an operate under a different legal juridstiction.

Yes, I agree. But it could have impact on the customer. If not, what would be the difference between an authorized reseller and a grey market shop?

Why don't you name and shame and bad mouth the reseller instead of make a case against an innocent manufacturer that has it's hands tied ?

As I said I see no point in complaining about a Brazilian local reseller in EEVBLOG.COM. Other than that VE unveiled a big suspect that the item sold is their property an no one here can prove that. I opened this thread complaining about how VE handled their partner mistake.

When two companies are in two different countries legal action is much harder, usually commercial factors play a bigger role, VE does not own the reseller.

I know that.

You requests and expectations are totally unreasonable and you are just making a buffoon of yourself.

We have different opinions on this subject.

[oldway]

I asked Dave to lock this thread but he did not.

VE and the members of this forum have already given you a clear answer.

Your insistence is unhealthy and unwelcome and demonstrates your bad intentions.

This becomes clearly public defamation against a company whose name is mentioned.

This certainly causes financial and moral damages to VE, which, in my opinion, would be legally well founded to seek judicial redress.

[PA0PBZ]

I asked Dave to lock this thread but he did not.

VE and the members of this forum have already given you a clear answer.

Your insistence is unhealthy and unwelcome and demonstrates your bad intentions.

This becomes clearly public defamation against a company whose name is mentioned.

This certainly causes financial and moral damages to VE, which, in my opinion, would be legally well founded to seek judicial redress.

Stop posting yourself would be a good start of the end of the thread, you've said everything there is to say multiple times. Let it rest.

[EEVblog]

To summarize:
I purchased a demo unit from a VE authorized reseller;
The item wad not intended to be sold and I was cheated;

Then you were cheated by a local seller who sold something they shouldn't have. VE have no obligation (legal or moral) to help you out here. Your case is with the dealer.

VE said they can't do anything regarding their authorized reseller;

The only thing they can do is drop them as an authorised dealer, and that has nothing to do with your case.

I will need to solve this by myself.

Yep.

[EEVblog]

I asked Dave to lock this thread but he did not.
VE and the members of this forum have already given you a clear answer.
Your insistence is unhealthy and unwelcome and demonstrates your bad intentions.
This becomes clearly public defamation against a company whose name is mentioned.
This certainly causes financial and moral damages to VE, which, in my opinion, would be legally well founded to seek judicial redress.

Stop posting yourself would be a good start of the end of the thread, you've said everything there is to say multiple times. Let it rest.

I was about to say the same thing.

[rodpp]

Thank you to everyone who participated of this thread.

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility over their authorized resellers.

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

Thank you all again.

Regards,
Rodrigo.

[Mechatrommer]

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility right over their authorized resellers.

corrected for you...

[rodpp]

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility right over their authorized resellers.

corrected for you...

Why?  Do they have any responsibility over their authorized resellers?

Or that should be responsibility neither right?

[Simon]

Thank you to everyone who participated of this thread.

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility over their authorized resellers.

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

Thank you all again.

Regards,
Rodrigo.

In your sarcasm you are absolutely factually correct. VE DO NOT have any legal power over their reseller. If you buy a car and it's got a problem do you complain to the car maker or the dealer ? You are probably lucky you don't live in the same country as Ve or they would be suing you already for defamation. Now go away and sort this out!

[rodpp]

Thank you to everyone who participated of this thread.

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility over their authorized resellers.

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

Thank you all again.

Regards,
Rodrigo.

In your sarcasm you are absolutely factually correct. VE DO NOT have any legal power over their reseller. If you buy a car and it's got a problem do you complain to the car maker or the dealer ? You are probably lucky you don't live in the same country as Ve or they would be suing you already for defamation. Now go away and sort this out!

What sarcasm?

I recognized that the majority do not share my frustration with VE, and I appreciate the collaboration of all users that posted in this thread, even though I don't agree with their opinions.

And about defamation, exposing what occurred in this case and my opinion about that is not defamation. Or I can't have my opinion, even if that option is no sense to the majority?

[Assafl]

Because goods imported into Brazil for resale will always be more costly than goods imported for demo purposes that have no commercial value. I learnt through experience that if something looks too good to be true, you can bet your money that it isn't true!

A bit OT perhaps but just so that the poster is aware:
Actually this is one of the few forums in the world where the concept of being too good to be true does not really hold true. As example, many of us envy what sort of test equipment others seem to find in their dumpster (all I ever find are crusty printers, old TVs and decomposing vegetables).

And as many on the metrology forum have shown you can buy old, non-working stuff on fleabay and with luck - it will cost you nearly nothing to repair and get world class equipment into your lab.

Just tried my first and scored a (550$ list) Datel Voltage Calibrator for $20 non-working (ended up needing a new LCD which cost 25$ from Datel, and a squirt of contact cleaner - Calibration was spot on as well). But I did not expect Datel (now Calibrator's Inc) to fix it - or even have spares - I was lucky in that respect (and they were very friendly and waived the $50 minimum order for spares). 

Back OT:
If the seller sold the instrument under warranty VE would be required to help. If it was sold NOS without expressed warranty - I don't know why VE would help without at least recovering their costs.

BTW - why not just fix it? How much is a replacement lens? Can a camera/lens professional in Sao Paolo clean the lens or is it shot...?  Maybe the entire thing is 100$ to fix???

[wraper]

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility over their authorized resellers.

That authorized? reseller never bought anything from VE, nor paid them a cent ever. You bought a used demo unit basically stolen from VE, and now VE is responsible for it?  And the most of it, by refusing to tell who that authorized reseller was, we cannot be even be sure that you even bought it at all. Maybe you tried to play some kind of scam, who knows.

[rodpp]

Because goods imported into Brazil for resale will always be more costly than goods imported for demo purposes that have no commercial value. I learnt through experience that if something looks too good to be true, you can bet your money that it isn't true!

A bit OT perhaps but just so that the poster is aware:
Actually this is one of the few forums in the world where the concept of being too good to be true does not really hold true. As example, many of us envy what sort of test equipment others seem to find in their dumpster (all I ever find are crusty printers, old TVs and decomposing vegetables).

And as many on the metrology forum have shown you can buy old, non-working stuff on fleabay and with luck - it will cost you nearly nothing to repair and get world class equipment into your lab.

Just tried my first and scored a (550$ list) Datel Voltage Calibrator for $20 non-working (ended up needing a new LCD which cost 25$ from Datel, and a squirt of contact cleaner - Calibration was spot on as well). But I did not expect Datel (now Calibrator's Inc) to fix it - or even have spares - I was lucky in that respect (and they were very friendly and waived the $50 minimum order for spares). 

Back OT:
If the seller sold the instrument under warranty VE would be required to help. If it was sold NOS without expressed warranty - I don't know why VE would help without at least recovering their costs.

BTW - why not just fix it? How much is a replacement lens? Can a camera/lens professional in Sao Paolo clean the lens or is it shot...?  Maybe the entire thing is 100$ to fix???

The unit was advertised with a 12 months warranty. As it is clear now, that warranty could never be from VE because of everything dicussed in this thread.

About fixing it, with the suspect unveiled by VE that the item much probably is property of VE, it must be returned to them.

[rodpp]

It's very clear to me how the majority understand this case, that VE has no legal or moral responsibility over their authorized resellers.

That authorized? reseller never bought anything from VE, nor paid them a cent ever. You bought a used demo unit basically stolen from VE, and now VE is responsible for it?  And the most of it, by refusing to tell who that authorized reseller was, we cannot be even be sure that you even bought it at all. Maybe you tried to play some kind of scam, who knows.

Unfortunately only VE can say for sure the situation of their business relationship. In the previous posts Mr. Turemen from VE said "The reseller in question was allowed to sell our products, yes."

But after all, that is not relevant anymore. Should this reseller be an authorized reseller or not, the understanding is that VE ins't responsible for them.

[free_electron]

i have not read the entire thread and have no interest to enter in the legal debacle , but :

That machine is easy to clean. (picutres on first page) . the lens is not a problem. wipe it off and done.

pop the black portion of the mantis off (there are 2 screws) take visor assembly out and wipe down with a microscope cleaning cloth and 10% ammonia in distilled water solution.
clean mirror inside as well.

the bottom glass part is also easy to remove.

i used to clean the mantises in our lab every year . they collected a coating of soldering smoke ...
piece of cake ...

[Mechatrommer]

coating of soldering smoke? yeah you have not read the whole thread... goto page 3, somewhere there...
and given the stubbornness of the man up on the stage, further advice will be futile...

[rodpp]

i have not read the entire thread and have no interest to enter in the legal debacle , but :

That machine is easy to clean. (picutres on first page) . the lens is not a problem. wipe it off and done.

pop the black portion of the mantis off (there are 2 screws) take visor assembly out and wipe down with a microscope cleaning cloth and 10% ammonia in distilled water solution.
clean mirror inside as well.

the bottom glass part is also easy to remove.

i used to clean the mantises in our lab every year . they collected a coating of soldering smoke ...
piece of cake ...

Thanks!

But VE unveiled a suspect that the item much probably is property of VE, so it must be returned to them:

...

4) VE will do you a favour and make sure that the item you returned to the reseller for repair is not returned to you again. Because this is potentially illegal and you could be implicated too.

...

[oldway]

Most of the people on this forum does not know nothing about brazilians laws so I think I have to give some informations about it because they will have to be applied in this case:

Basically, the Brazilian consumer defence code provides for joint responsability of the seller and manufacturer.

This is what OP try to apply here.

But in this case, that's the art 12 §3 - 1 who must be apply because It was a demo equipment who was not intended to be placed on the market by the manufacturer.

§ 3° O fabricante, o construtor, o produtor ou importador só não será responsabilizado quando provar:
 
        I - que não colocou o produto no mercado;...

http://www.idec.org.br/consultas/codigo-de-defesa-do-consumidor/capitulo-iv

The manufacturer has no responsability because he did not placed the product on the marked, it has been placed on the market of an illegal manner by the seller and without autorization

Furthermore, it is clear that OP don't want to sort this out with the seller.

Why ?

[rodpp]

Furthermore, it is clear that OP don't want to sort this out with the seller.

Why ?

...

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

...

[oldway]

Furthermore, it is clear that OP don't want to sort this out with the seller.

Why ?

...

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

...

What you wrote:

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

Then why are you insisting ?

[rodpp]

Furthermore, it is clear that OP don't want to sort this out with the seller.

Why ?

...

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

...

What you wrote:

I will try to solve this by myself without their help, as it seems I should had from the beginning.

Then why are you insisting ?

I am not insisting. I already said that I will solve this by myself.

I do not expect any help from VE anymore.

[oldway]

I am not insisting. I already said that I will solve this by myself.

I do not expect any help from VE anymore.

Then, do it and go away, as Simon said.

You update your thread only to have more readers and you go on further with  your finality to smear EV name
You know you are wrong and you did not even changed the tittle of your thread, nor apologied with EV.

[rodpp]

I am not insisting. I already said that I will solve this by myself.

I do not expect any help from VE anymore.

Then, do it and go away, as Simon said.

You update your thread only to have more readers and you go on further with  your finality to smear EV name
You know you are wrong and you did not even changed the tittle of your thread, nor apologied with EV.

I and any other user can comment this an any other threads.

I know that the majority here don't share my frustration, but in my opinion VE should have helped me.

So I have no apologies to give, but I respect their (VE) position and the opinion of all users.