Poll

Are you interested in seeing more handheld meters tested?

This testing is pointless! Please STOP damaging these meters!
3 (6.4%)
 Yes, I would like to more meters tested.
44 (93.6%)

Total Members Voted: 47

Author Topic: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.  (Read 509630 times)

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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2250 on: December 16, 2017, 12:23:35 pm »
I started out at 5C, let the box stabilize, then applied a 2.4 Watt load and watched the response.  Next, I removed the load and let it settle.   I tried 14 Watts but the box just can't remove that much heat so I dropped it to 6.5 Watts.   Looking at the I term, this appears pretty close to the limit at this temperature. 

Next I took it to 50C and again let is stabilize.   I then added the 6.5 Watt load and waited for it to settle.  Then I applied 14 Watts.     

I then applied 23.6 Watts which was more than enough to heat the box without the peltier.  I have a window comparator that monitors the error and will change the polarity if the temperature exceeds 5 degrees.   At 55C, it switched and starts to cool.  There is some undershoot.  Then I remove the load and again at 45 it changes polarity and starts to heat and overshoots. 

Camera is next. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2251 on: December 17, 2017, 06:42:09 am »
Before getting my meat packing box, this was my thermal chamber.  Shown here in 2003 as I am sorting transistors for the antique Tektronix current probe.   I wrote RAP about repairing it and sent him pictures of the test fixture knowing he would have some good advice.   

Quote
"You could ask Fairchild if they sell the 2N3906 and 2N3906 chips in TO-18. I bet if the military wanted to buy 100 of these for $30 each, they could get them just fine,but, how much AUTHENTICITY do you want to pay for?

Best wishes. / rap"

The UT181A is now inside the container.  I've added the ability to run a profile.   I've looked at this meter in the past and it was the most stable out of the ones I have looked at.  Again, it could be a very nice meter with a few small changes.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2252 on: December 17, 2017, 11:10:28 am »
Some time ago, I had placed a few meter into a temperature chamber and let them settle at -20 and 60C, noting the displayed value.  The UT181A was effected the least of the meters I looked at.  The UT61E was pretty poor.  Later I did a video where I compensated it using a resistor and diode.   

Today, I tried to repeat the test using the meat packing box and the UT181A.   The first thing I found is I can't drive the temperature below -4 with the 181A inside.  Even after the backlight turns off.  But they have the crazy battery in there for a reason.   

UT181A_0_50C.png shows the output of the UT181A (blue) captured with their software and the ambient air temperature.  I started out at 0, then increased it 10 degrees every half hour.   

UT181A_0_50C_1mv.png shows the zoomed in reported output.  No big surprises and it basically just does the same thing it did before, hardly move.   An impressive meter if it had a little help.    Well it's back to the charger for it.    :palm: :-DD
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2253 on: December 19, 2017, 11:12:32 am »
I mentioned I had repaired the Kasuntest and Harbor Freight free DT830 after I had life cycled their switches to save them for future tests.  The new ESD gun has never damaged a meter since I started using it.  Knowing the grill igniter had damaged a DT830 in the past and the gun puts out a far more realistic waveform, it seemed only fitting to repeat this test.    No plans for the Kasuntest yet but I am sure I will come up with something.   

https://youtu.be/E5aj4guPbZQ
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2254 on: December 20, 2017, 11:42:20 pm »
This one is for the Brymen fan boys.   
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline Russ

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2255 on: December 21, 2017, 02:17:51 am »
How did the Brymen perform in the rotary switch testing?

Russ
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2256 on: December 21, 2017, 08:44:42 am »
How did the Brymen perform in the rotary switch testing?

Patience. If "cycle0" was only 3 hours ago then it's probably not finished yet.
 

Offline Russ

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2257 on: December 21, 2017, 09:56:26 am »


Quote from: Fungus on Today at 08:44:42 AM


>Quote from: Russ on Today at 02:17:51 AM
How did the Brymen perform in the rotary switch testing?



Patience. If "cycle0" was only 3 hours ago then it's probably not finished yet.

Thanks. I didn’t realize it had just started.


 

Offline Cliff Matthews

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2258 on: December 21, 2017, 10:47:25 am »
Hmm.., don't know why he'd waste the tracks on his best "go to" meter.. Perhaps Gossen sent him a new Ultra M248C for a Christmas review?
You know the deal, no strings, magnets or shields attached  :)
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2259 on: December 22, 2017, 02:55:04 am »
That picture was taken at the start of the test.   It takes days to run it. 

After a few days, some of the the tubing has worn.   I like this stuff as it is very soft life a human's fingers. 

Hmm.., don't know why he'd waste the tracks on his best "go to" meter.. Perhaps Gossen sent him a new Ultra M248C for a Christmas review?
You know the deal, no strings, magnets or shields attached  :)

Really, you after two years of running meters to failure, you don't why?  That's good because I am at least not alone.   

I would be amazed if Gossen just posted or dropped a private email with an update. Do you think Keysight would respond faster about their detent spring?   :-DD     
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2260 on: December 22, 2017, 04:03:59 am »
I have seen where the Teslong NTC camera is rated to operate from 0 - 80C.   

Temperature/humidity monitor is tossed into the meat packing box and I ran it from 0 to 50C without any problems.  Also shown is a meter inside the box with the lid closed off to give you an idea how it would work.  The camera presents a bit of a thermal load but it does not take much light to see the meter.  Turning down the brightness helps a lot.   

Not a bad setup for basically made from junk.
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2261 on: December 24, 2017, 03:11:24 pm »
I don't know if you want to look at another Brymen, but the BM315 and BM319 are automotive meters.

The Brymen BM319s automotive handheld meter Christmas Special.  Travel safe and have a Merry Christmas!

https://youtu.be/uY6ZcINF7L0
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2262 on: December 29, 2017, 10:24:44 am »
With so much speculation about the life of the BM869s, I think it's time that we add some data to the mix.   Consider this my new year's gift to all of you Brymen fans or anyone wanting to see this test ran. 

While running the test, I had some questions about the meter and my results that I wanted to run by Brymen and have included their responses as well. 

The video is in the process of uploading so look for it shortly.   

Have a Happy New Year!!


https://youtu.be/bs5n3a__Yq0
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 04:14:45 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline SeanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2263 on: December 30, 2017, 04:11:15 am »
Thanks joe, nice to see a manufacturer who is looking to improve the product where it counts. Making sure the stuff will work well after the warranty period, making sure the parts are good value for money, along with making sure it will survive the typical use environment without issues. no wonder we all like those meters and the whole related family of them. Not your typical hit or miss manufacturer, but good value on all the range.
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2264 on: December 30, 2017, 04:48:04 am »
Thanks joe, nice to see a manufacturer who is looking to improve the product where it counts. Making sure the stuff will work well after the warranty period, making sure the parts are good value for money, along with making sure it will survive the typical use environment without issues. no wonder we all like those meters and the whole related family of them. Not your typical hit or miss manufacturer, but good value on all the range.

Strange but I agree with all your points for a change.   :-DD :-DD   I have been really impressed with their whole attitude.     

Hopefully my comments about the lubrication make it clear that this is not a trivial subject to cover.  I've though about running one of the lubricated Fluke meters to see if it does as well as that 17B+ did with dry contacts.

I noticed a small mistake in that last video. 

Data files are named using the following format:
BRAND_MODEL_LUBE_STATUS
Switch Contact LUBE: D - Dry or no lubrication, L - Lubricated
Meter Status: N- New, U - Used, D - Damage to switch area

If you look at the file name  "BRYMEN_BM869s_D_U_48_Dec21_2017", the meter is obviously brand new.  I have since corrected this.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 07:48:50 am by joeqsmith »
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline Russ

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2265 on: December 30, 2017, 06:30:30 am »
It looks as if the Brymen performed quite well.
 

Online 2N3055

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2266 on: December 30, 2017, 08:54:47 am »
Nice work on the video and testing Joe...
So Brymen held it's promise of a decent product with decent price... Good to know..
Of course, one instrument is not good statistical sample, but it shows a trend..
What I like most is manufacturer standing behind it's product and customers...
Fact that they weren't afraid of testing, and open communication is very telling..
There are some "very fancy" manufacturers that could learn a thing or two from them...

Regards,
Sinisa
 
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Offline Russ

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Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2268 on: December 30, 2017, 09:06:51 am »
Joe, thanks for another excellent test. My past experience in contacting Brymen is nothing but perfect, and I am really glad to see them being very open and standing by their product.
To me, your tests only give reassurance about the leading brand and a quite formidable competitor of the portable meters marketplace.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Offline lem_ix

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2269 on: December 30, 2017, 09:19:35 am »
Thanks for the great test Joe. With the help of your videos and accumulated experience here on the forum, at least in my eyes Brymen is definitely an alternative to Fluke in Europe where their prices are overly inflated. (Fluke 87 ~585€ vs 265€ for 869S locally, VAT included)
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2270 on: December 30, 2017, 10:30:32 am »
Someone had pointed out the different shades of the older and newer Brymen's LCD.  Note the plastic case and rubber boot on my old one are also a little lighter.   I expect this is from the sun.  The LCD I am not so sure.  It does have that Belkin protective film over the lens and I did polish this one after I had added a few personal marks to it.   

Pure luck on the shot.  They move around a bit. 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 
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Offline floobydust

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2271 on: December 30, 2017, 11:21:04 am »
I mentioned I had repaired the Kasuntest and Harbor Freight free DT830 after I had life cycled their switches to save them for future tests.  The new ESD gun has never damaged a meter since I started using it.  Knowing the grill igniter had damaged a DT830 in the past and the gun puts out a far more realistic waveform, it seemed only fitting to repeat this test.    No plans for the Kasuntest yet but I am sure I will come up with something.   

For the ESD pulse generator, are you are using a cap+resistor discharge, like the 330R+150pF HBM kind of thing ?
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2272 on: December 31, 2017, 08:11:06 am »
Recently there has been some very dry weather in California, and I have noticed that if I walk across the carpet in slippers and then touch something metal I invariably create quite a spark. So what kind of ESD gun am I compared to the fabricated ones? Presumably I am quite a realistic one.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2273 on: December 31, 2017, 11:52:00 am »
Recently there has been some very dry weather in California, and I have noticed that if I walk across the carpet in slippers and then touch something metal I invariably create quite a spark. So what kind of ESD gun am I compared to the fabricated ones? Presumably I am quite a realistic one.

It is getting to be winter here and the house is starting to get dry as well.    Yes, what you describe would be one specific realistic event but I doubt you could get it to repeat, pulse after pulse, day after day.  There are so many variables which is why we have standards.  Then the standards change as we learn more.    You could try to measure it and prove it to yourself. 

http://www.emcsociety.org/2010%20Events/ESD%20Presentation%202010%20update.ppt



How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Handheld meter electrical robustness testing.
« Reply #2274 on: January 08, 2018, 09:39:18 am »
That box sure seems big for just two meters.  Perhaps there was something else inside.... 
How electrically robust is your meter?? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsK99WXk9VhcghnAauTBsbg
 


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