Magnova oscilloscope

[woody]

Now they are visible, albeit very, very small...

Seems not possible, but that is an understatement 

[Christian K]

I have received my BMO200 yesterday.

I write here to thank everybody here giving useful information on Magnova. It helped making my purchase decision. I did not find anything usefull elsewhere...

Concerning the packaging: now it is good. 2 cardbox (one in the other). Scope in a plastic bag in the inner card box.
The scope travelled to Switzerland without any damage.

[Christian K]

Just a few lines to comment the first impression after unboxing:
(I regret not being able to write better / English is not my motherlangage)

WOUAH! So much "bang for the buck"!
The scope is tiny (I still have a lot of place free for crap on my desk) with a very gorgeous screen. I will try to make the effort learning how to use without the beloved buttons (it is the price to pay for those avantages).
Touch screen: of course but a fully usable touch screen. UI is fast, screen is sensitive to touch (no need to press) and if you press, the scope remains stable (does not go for a walk around your desk).
Speakin about the screen: thanks to the clever design, if you wear a white shirt (I never do but I am not alone) you still can use your scope (just change slightly the screen angle).

Batronix also sells a "MSO Training and Demo Board". I was playing a little bit:

BMO_essais_2_screen.png
I have a problem reading the units on the grid (I am retired / old eyes). Another user already signaled the problem.
Maybe the measurements near the curves (on the grid) would benefit from chanel colors.



BMO_essais_4_screen.png
There is a usable printing mode!
If you need to document your work, you will love this as I do.
Only changes between the 2 images: Grid intensity and Color theme. The rest works perfect "out of the box" / without adjustments. Amazing...

The bigest regret I have (not mentioning the understable delay for the generator / Bode-plots) is that I cannot have a copy on the scope screen on my computer.
That would make screenshots much easier (and even permit videos to document problems).

Best regards
Christian

[Sorama]

Regarding the touchscreen: when I use the knobs/rotators on the right, often the screen changes because my fingers are too close the screen.
So I have to undo the screen change.

Anyone else having this annoying side effect ?

[FloBX]

Regarding the touchscreen: when I use the knobs/rotators on the right, often the screen changes because my fingers are too close the screen.

Hello Sorama,
even though not anticipated based on our preliminary tests, we did receive this feedback more than once. 

Our next update, scheduled for release within the next days, will address this inconvenience:
"Optimized touch area next to the rotary knobs to prevent unintended touch inputs when interacting with rotary encoders."

Best regards,
Florian

[Sorama]

Now that’s what I call service support !
Tnx Batronix.

[woody]

The biggest regret I have (not mentioning the understable delay for the generator / Bode-plots) is that I cannot have a copy on the scope screen on my computer.
That would make screenshots much easier (and even permit videos to document problems).

Best regards
Christian

That is a pity, but I think it is promised along the line somewhere.

Meanwhile there is a relatively easy way to get a screenshot on your computer by creating a share on the PC and then connect the Magnova to it (Settings - Shares). From then on the share appears as a target in the save/load dialogs and you can save a screenshot on the share. Works also for other files and both ways (as expected).

[cdc3oo]

Now that’s what I call service support !
Tnx Batronix.

I agree. As a customer of Batronix for their excellent programmers and also for other equipment (power supply, scope, etc.) I can only praise their responsiveness and the quality of their support. I wish I could say the same about Siglent.

As an hobbyist servicing vintage audio, I'd probably never have any use for such an oscilloscope, but if I had the space and the budget, it would already be one of my tools.

Das ist die deutsche Qualität

I wish them success.

[Martin72]

I wish I could say the same about Siglent.

I have never had a problem with Siglent support, and they are pretty much the benchmark for supporting their oscilloscopes.

[cdc3oo]

Language barrier, I now realize my wording is not correct...

<off topic>
I own a 1104X-E, and although I'm well aware that it's not the same product range, I'm critical of its poor quality encoder and software updates that bring new features, but which, from a user interface point of view, would have deserved better integration. From an ergonomic point of view, there was room for improvement. Knowing the product life cycle in these big companies, I'm afraid this will never be addressed.

Batronix doesn't have the same constraints and, while I may be wrong, I think Magnova owners will see what customer support means.

With the hope this clarifies.
</off topic>

[KungFuJosh]

Language barrier, I now realize my wording is not correct...

<off topic>
I own a 1104X-E, and although I'm well aware that it's not the same product range, I'm critical of its poor quality encoder and software updates that bring new features, but which, from a user interface point of view, would have deserved better integration. From an ergonomic point of view, there was room for improvement. Knowing the product life cycle in these big companies, I'm afraid this will never be addressed.

Batronix doesn't have the same constraints and, while I may be wrong, I think Magnova owners will see what customer support means.

With the hope this clarifies.
</off topic>

None of that makes any sense. You're comparing a 7 year old entry level low budget scope to a brand new 12bit scope that costs 10 times as much. Both Batronix and Siglent are great companies with excellent support.

Anyway, I'd wager that 7 years from now there will be a newer Magnova design that has more knobs on it. 😉

[tautech]

Language barrier, I now realize my wording is not correct...

<off topic>
I own a 1104X-E, and although I'm well aware that it's not the same product range, I'm critical of its poor quality encoder and software updates that bring new features, but which, from a user interface point of view, would have deserved better integration. From an ergonomic point of view, there was room for improvement. Knowing the product life cycle in these big companies, I'm afraid this will never be addressed.

Batronix doesn't have the same constraints and, while I may be wrong, I think Magnova owners will see what customer support means.

With the hope this clarifies.
</off topic>

None of that makes any sense.

Yep.

3 OS updates from 2017-2023 each adding additional capability NOT planned for when released.

Show me another brand that has further developed an instrument in this way......

[cdc3oo]

None of that makes any sense. You're comparing a 7 year old entry level low budget scope to a brand new 12bit scope that costs 10 times as much. Both Batronix and Siglent are great companies with excellent support.

I am not sure 7 years difference and price tag have something to do with mistakes/shortcomings in UI design. Overall, I am happy with the SDS but there are times I'm not. But it is not this thread subject so I won't write about this anymore here.

Anyway, I'd wager that 7 years from now there will be a newer Magnova design that has more knobs on it.

It's a possibility, maybe with BNCs on the front panel

[KungFuJosh]

It's a possibility, maybe with BNCs on the front panel

Or maybe they will swivel so the BNCs can be front or side. 🤔

[woody]

Anyway, I'd wager that 7 years from now there will be a newer Magnova design that has more knobs on it.

My (re)view on this:

My previous scope was a GW-Instek 2204E. Coming from various CRT scopes via a couple of USB scopes I was convinced that having buttons and knobs for everything was a good thing. I then found out that setting a DSO needs a lot of fiddling with a lot of different buttons (no touch screen in the 2204). For most operations I had to select options with buttons along the screen, then use a knob or buttons to make changes and use yet other buttons along the screen to change or get out of the selection. This was never going to make it into muscle memory. I lived through the frustration of pressing "default" instead of "single" when in the middle of a measurement many times. Who decided placing these buttons on top of each other was a good idea?

The 2204E has limited memory and MSO capabilities, so I started to look for a successor. I forsook the idea of having lots of buttons as long as it had an adequate touchscreen. The scope that got most of my attention was the Siglent SDS2354X HD. Affordable with lots of extra's that I very nearly bought. Like a number of competing offers it has a large touch screen but also a lot of small buttons on the right side. While having a touch screen these scopes seem to need the buttons as well. Meanwhile you lose part of the 10.1", 1024x600 pixel screen to touch menus, controls and settings.

Then the Magnova came to my attention. While still proto-ware Batronix made a point of the fact that having a few good quality rotary controls and three buttons in combination with a very large and well thought-out touch screen was all you needed to interact with their scope.

I liked the sales pitch, took a gamble and now have a BMO350 on my desk. And I find that Batronix did not exaggerate when they said that if you give this scope 5 minutes of your time you'll love it. Touch screen operation is very fast. The screen itself is 15.6", 1920x1080 pixels, bright and razor sharp. Less than half of the entire front is dedicated to controls. This is also achieved by placing the inputs to the side (a move that I had my reservations about but that, apart from inserting a USB stick, is working fine in practice). Although the Magnova always uses part of the screen real-estate for its touch menus, controls and settings you are left with roughly 1600x980 pixels for the signal screen. The large screen size comes at a cost: this is not a small device (40 cm wide x 24 cm high).

Furthermore the interaction with this scope is very straightforward. Light years away from the scope it replaces. I read the 57 pages of manual once and never needed it since. Settings are mostly where I would expect them. Knobs perform well, apart from the (already tackled) issue of the involuntary opening of menus when you turn them. Updating to a newer firmware is a breeze. I think the premise that you do not need so many buttons on a scope is met on this device. And the cherry on the cake for me: "Autoset" is far away from 'Single' and 'Run/Stop' and when pressed it asks me for confirmation before autosetting 

[2N3055]

.....................

The scope that got most of my attention was the Siglent SDS2354X HD. Affordable with lots of extra's that I very nearly bought. Like a number of competing offers it has a large touch screen but also a lot of small buttons on the right side. While having a touch screen these scopes seem to need the buttons as well. Meanwhile you lose part of the 10.1", 1024x600 pixel screen to touch menus, controls and settings.

.....................................

I'm a bit confused so I will ask.

You mentioned Siglent but this applies to all combined touch/button scopes.
Buttons and knobs are there for your convenience. Mentioned scope can be operated completely from the screen.
So that part of what you said is not really accurate.
Also if you don't have buttons, you still will have to assign part of the screen (maybe even more so) for all the menus and controls, because how will you control scope otherwise.
Therefore this Magnova scope also have physical knobs and uses significant part of the screen for scope control.

Maybe you wanted to say that 10" screen should have been bigger (like on Magnova) at expense of less physical knobs?

That is a matter of user preference and is valid point.
I can tell you that most of the users prefer at least some knobs to control basic settings.

That is the reason that there is very small number of "true tablet scopes". Not that there is something wrong with the concept.  It is a different variation on the scope instrument theme. For some very good option, for some not so much.

I did not have opportunity to try Magnova yet, but seems like some though went into design and might be nicely made.
But these novel UI concept approaches need to be tried in person to get a feel for it.

I would venture a guess that if you had tried SDS2000xHD that it would also be great improvement in usability over only "knob twiddle" classic scope you had before. Any touch screen scope is.

Enjoy your new scope and please report back how you like it as you get familiar with it.

[Martin72]

I still have a bit of a problem with the operation.
It's great that the buttons are assigned in each case, but I've had a few times when I've just changed the time base and now I want to reduce the voltage.
“Automatically” I reach for the buttons, of course, but they have a different assignment at the moment, so I look for the channel field and press it, then I have the vertical settings on the buttons, and the same applies vice versa for everything else you do with dedicated buttons (triggers, for example).
It's probably a matter of practice, when I have to hand the scope back, I'll probably be able to do it.

[Sorama]

I still have a bit of a problem with the operation.
It's great that the buttons are assigned in each case, but I've had a few times when I've just changed the time base and now I want to reduce the voltage.
“Automatically” I reach for the buttons, of course, but they have a different assignment at the moment, so I look for the channel field and press it, then I have the vertical settings on the buttons, and the same applies vice versa for everything else you do with dedicated buttons (triggers, for example).
It's probably a matter of practice, when I have to hand the scope back, I'll probably be able to do it.

I feel your pain.
I hope the UX gets better cause sometimes it just takes too much time to change basics settings.
And as I said before ( I guess this will be part of the upcoming update) , I always have to search (way too long) for that particular, not very visible word/parameter on the screen.

[KungFuJosh]

The scope that got most of my attention was the Siglent SDS2354X HD. Affordable with lots of extra's that I very nearly bought. Like a number of competing offers it has a large touch screen but also a lot of small buttons on the right side. While having a touch screen these scopes seem to need the buttons as well. Meanwhile you lose part of the 10.1", 1024x600 pixel screen to touch menus, controls and settings.

This doesn't make sense in context of the conversation. I have the SDS2504X HD, and I love it, and the control setup. It has less physical controls than my previous Plus model did, but it was easy to get used to. The section of physical buttons outside of the screen takes up zero on-screen space.

The on-screen buttons/menus take up space no matter what scope brand touch screen you're using. The menus can be left on or turned off after a period depending on your user preference.

I like the design of the Magnova. I love the high resolution large screen. The general design is nice too. But in an industry that people like tactile response, a touch screen only option will always be less popular, which is why Batronix included what they did. The thing that IMO is missing is the habitual buttons. With physical buttons we habitually hit stuff, often without needing to look. The tactile response of the button makes life easier for many operations. Personally, I think the scope you mentioned (my current scope) is an excellent choice for Batronix to look at for comparison.

For the Magnova, I think a great solution would be to make a user configurable quick access menu.

For example, all things user configurable:

- exactly what buttons we want for different purposes;
- size, color, and placement of each button;
- static buttons that don't change unless user changes them;
- long-press a button to change options for button (target function, color, size, etc.);
- macro-like functions (for example, a single button press to change the trigger to rising edge, set timebase for common tasks, etc.)
- something like a small icon on the top menu to toggle the custom user menu visibility;
- optional: menu area either side of the screen (or both if needed);
- optional: width of custom menu areas (arbitrary or multiple choices);
- less optional: option to place a cute logo in the menu 😉;
- sending me a free scope since this idea is so awesome 😉😉

Thanks,
Josh

[Martin72]

Two different design philosophies side by side.

[Martin72]

FFT...
I have a knot in my brain, what FFT sample rate is available...
RBW is given as 95.37Hz, the window is Flattop, so a factor of 3.73 if I remember correctly.
That would be a Delta-F of 25.56Hz.
Now 1Mpoints are available for the FFT, the sample rate is 1.6GSa/s, the time base is 500µs/div and the memory is 19.2Mpt/ch.
I would say it should be 25MSa/s FFT sample rate, right?
It is not displayed at Magnova, but it would be nice to have.

Edit: Source is a 0dBm 1Mhz sinewave

[nctnico]

What would help is to show a box to indicate which part of the signal is used for the FFT result. In some cases I like to see the FFT for parts of a waveform to check where emissions in a certain frequency range come from.

[FloBX]

Good evening,
just to make it clear: You are discussing an unreleased firmware version, currently handed to a limited amount of testers, only.

However, this is where we encounter the next two points of the upcoming changelog:

• Added FFT gate selection functionality (memory or screen).
• Added display of currently utilized FFT support points.

Edit: This is to be noted, before other Magnova owners start wandering where the info below the RBW value might be coming from.

Best regards,
Florian

[nctnico]

Good evening,
just to make it clear: You are discussing an unreleased firmware version, currently handed to a limited amount of testers, only.

That is good to know. What concerns me though is that having too many different versions with different functionality out in the field and being discussed here is causing confusion amongst potential buyers about what to expect exactly. Quite a few people don't stay up to date (and I don't blame them) and outdated information keeps singing around. At least, that is my observation on this forum.

[FloBX]

What concerns me though is that having too many different versions with different functionality out in the field and being discussed here is causing confusion amongst potential buyers about what to expect exactly.

We share the same concern. My intention was to also prevent confusion amongst those who already have their own device and might start looking for a feature, that can currently only be found in the (one) preliminary version.
Nonetheless, I did not want to interrupt the discussion.