NanoVNA V2 aka S-A-A-2

[0xdeadbeef]

As it wasn't discussed here yet (AFAIK): there are "V2" versions of the NanoVNA popping up on eBay. On second look, this seems to be a different product developed be different people. Main benefit is a much wider frequency range (50kHz - 3GHz).
Some links:
https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2
https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanovna-v2
https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v2.html

[ch_scr]

I have designed a case for the NanoVNA V2. It has space for a 18650 cell, stores the stylus and has a lanyard attachment point. It is held together with 4 2.5mm countersunk screws on the bottom. Enjoy!
Edit: I just learnt that the 4 LED's on the bottom show the state of charge. Easiest would be to print the case (or at least the bottom half) out of translucent plastic. Another alternative may be to drill some holes into the side. Let's see what else we can come up with?

[OwO]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

EDIT:

- Only the Tindie store and RTL-SDR blog store support the original developers and fund the development of V2/V3 and maintenance of the firmware and software. All Aliexpress and eBay sellers are selling clones which have fancier packaging but lack QC on the RF characteristics and performance can vary. None of them check for things like uncalibrated directivity.

- S-A-A-2 is a completely new design not based on the original NanoVNA by ttrftech. S-A-A-2 does not use harmonics; it uses 2x ADF4350 to cover up to 3GHz. The linearity and dynamic range are improved.

- S-A-A-2 design is open source, which means anyone can manufacture it. However, only HCXQS is supporting the original developers. Other major players in the NanoVNA space do not share their design files, and all are working on competing V3 (6GHz) designs.

- Official support group is at https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2

[ebclr]

What are the improvements on V2

[OwO]

Original nano goes up to 900MHz using the third harmonic, and V2 goes up to 3GHz using only the fundamental (no harmonics mode). The dynamic range is improved.

[dr.diesel]

I have designed a case for the NanoVNA V2. It has space for a 18650 cell, stores the stylus and has a lanyard attachment point. It is held together with 4 2.5mm countersunk screws on the bottom. Enjoy!

You just saved me some trouble, thanks for posting this!

[ch_scr]

I'm happy you like it. A 5.2mm Drill works well to get the Support out of the stylus hole and is just barely long enough. The 18650 cavity is slightly oversized, a piece of 5mm foam makes it fit nicely. You will propably need to kiss the bottom part with a file to make it snug but not jam with the top.

[edigi]

Original nano goes up to 900MHz using the third harmonic

There is also a newer improved version of the original NanoVNA (see picture), it has a 4" LCD, goes till 1.5GHz and RF performance is also somewhat improved.

Nevertheless I've also bought the V2, but it ships quite slow (it was 2 weeks) so probably it's still quite some time till I receive it.
I'd prefer a bigger LCD variant from the V2 though (my eyes are not the best anymore) and I'm probably not alone with this... Any chance for such version?

[Gandalf_Sr]

I just ordered one from Tindie 

[Noy]

Hm, i ordered a few days/weeks ago from AliExpress "official" Kkmoon Store because tindie hasn't Stock.
Hope it is good quality and not "cheaper" manufactured. Are there parts that i should check? Can i get the housing alone anywhere? It was not offered from kkmoon Store.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Tindie offered a case but it was the laser cut plexiglass.  I'm going to 3D print my own from the files above.

[0xdeadbeef]

I'd prefer a bigger LCD variant from the V2 though (my eyes are not the best anymore) and I'm probably not alone with this... Any chance for such version?

There are already versions with a 3.2" screen floating around.
https://www.amazon.de/Portable-Handheld-Analyser-50kHz-3GHz-Touchscreen/dp/B08B8VBRLT

[Noy]

Take Care, might be  another Layout. Look for the Switch positions.

[bicycleguy]

Received mine from Tindie in only 48 days    The cal kit was unavailable so I bought a $20 eBay one.

Seems pretty amazing even to a complete RF knob.  Bought a cheap RF Demo kit to play with but it seems to be made for <1GHz.  It has U.FL connectors on 18 little circuits including a short, open, load and thru so you can cal with the cables on.  Should have bought the one that included a prototype area.

@Owo  Just out of curiosity, the current draw seems to cycle between 350 to 390mA, what causes that?  Maybe the lower parts of the frequency band are using more parts?

As others noted the text on the display is way to small unless I'm using a headband magnifier (which I need to hook up the U.FLs )

[OwO]

Most aliexpress stores are selling clones, I know of only two stores (in addition to the Tindie store) that get their V2s from our manufacturing partner, which is "KaisayaHIFI audio Store" and "LusyaTechnology Store", but aliexpress sellers do switch sources often so I can't say these two stores are always going to be selling "original" units. KKmoon, tomtop, and the *tool stores have always sold clones.

However, most clones nowadays perform fine. V2 design is open source so there are many (I think at least 5) clone manufacturers. If you are curious, post a high res image of the bottom side of the board, and a zoomed in picture of U401 like here: https://imgur.com/a/BMDyw3p and I can usually identify the manufacturer.

@Owo  Just out of curiosity, the current draw seems to cycle between 350 to 390mA, what causes that?  Maybe the lower parts of the frequency band are using more parts?

As others noted the text on the display is way to small unless I'm using a headband magnifier (which I need to hook up the U.FLs )

Not sure, might have something to do with ADF4350 switching in/out between bands, newest firmware turns off the ADF4350 when not needed.

There will be a 4 inch display version soon, the firmware support is already there and it's just a matter of reworking the PCB layout for the larger size. If you are using the VNA on the bench and don't care about portability, you can already swap out the display for a 4inch one like this (search "ST7796S", make sure to get one with the 14-pin header and touch support, and you will also need to update the vna firmware):

[Berni]

Oh neat! I was waiting for the V2 to be out, thanks for the thread.

I bought the first version and was really impressed, so im definitely buying this one too. Perhaps il hack the larger display onto it too and 3D print a case. The small display on the first Nano VNA was indeed a bit annoying to work with using fingers.

[Gandalf_Sr]

@OwO
My NanoVNA V2 is on order from Tindie and I'm interested in doing a 4" LCD upgrade; I may come up with a 3D printable case to use the standard V2 PCB with the 4" display.

Please can you point me to the firmware that will handle the 4" display and instructions on how to load it?

Also, what voltage is the battery? Is it a single cell 3.7-4.2V LiPo? (I don't find this information anywhere in the user manual) Can you recommend a specific battery?

[OwO]

The git version has 4 inch display support but there is no binary released yet; I'll go do a release right now. https://github.com/nanovna/NanoVNA-V2-firmware

The battery is any li-ion battery (3.6V and 3.7V cells are the same thing, they are all 3.0 - 4.2V). The dimensions should be 6*40*60 mm to fit in the device, usually labeled as "604060", or use that enclosure that supports a 18650 cell (I would go this route because 18650s are generally safer).

[Gandalf_Sr]

@OwO

Thanks   I already have some 18650 LiPos and single 18650 LiPo holders so I'll use one of those as you recommended.  I think I already have the 4" display too but I need to wait until I get home to check it's the one you're suggesting.  I have a Kirkby VNA SMA Cal kit which includes Open, Short, and Through connectors in male and female; am I right in thinking these will be suitable for use with the NanoVNA V2?

[edigi]

My NanoVNA V2 is on order from Tindie and I'm interested in doing a 4" LCD upgrade

Note: In the newer version of the original NanoVNA it's not just the display size 4" but resolution is slightly better (480x320).
(I've just noticed that the picture that I've inserted has incorrect file name...)

[Gandalf_Sr]

Thanks, I just ordered a 4 inch display from AliExpress, this one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000946111830.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.64a42129rATwwR

When I download the binary-st7796.bin file what program do I use to program the NanoVNA without loading IDEs and compiling?

[bicycleguy]

The git version has 4 inch display support but there is no binary released yet; I'll go do a release right now. https://github.com/nanovna/NanoVNA-V2-firmware
...

Great update:
Larger text on the 2.8" display makes a huge difference.
The noise floor is improved.
The power consumption below 140MHz dropped from ~380mA to ~180mA

Maybe the 4" won't be worth my time, especially since its really only 3.5":
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000234986822.html

Edit: The display on Gandalf_Sr post looks to be actually 4".

[Hydron]

Does anyone know how the Tindie store units are being declared for shipping? I'd be OK with the VAT bill, but TNT charge like wounded bulls for "admin fees" on top when collecting it - at 20 quid it's over twice the VAT due

[OwO]

I have a Kirkby VNA SMA Cal kit which includes Open, Short, and Through connectors in male and female; am I right in thinking these will be suitable for use with the NanoVNA V2?

Yes, any good SMA cal kit will do. If it has kit parameters in S parameter form you can import that into NanoVNA-QT, but the on-device calibration doesn't support kit parameters yet.

When I download the binary-st7796.bin file what program do I use to program the NanoVNA without loading IDEs and compiling?

NanoVNA-QT can do the firmware update, and on Linux (maybe also mac os) you can use dfu.py: https://github.com/nanovna/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/blob/master/dfu.py

Does anyone know how the Tindie store units are being declared for shipping? I'd be OK with the VAT bill, but TNT charge like wounded bulls for "admin fees" on top when collecting it - at 20 quid it's over twice the VAT due

I'm pretty sure they under declare it to less than $20, but that doesn't mean you get a VAT bill, it depends on the country but I've heard DHL tends to ask for proof of purchase. After the pandemic is over and shipping times return to normal they will probably offer cheap ePacket shipping again.

[ch_scr]

It should be mentioned: this is a really nice device Good work!
I have two questions: Is there a way to see the battery level on the device? Will it charge (and with how much current) from USB?

[Gandalf_Sr]

It should be mentioned: this is a really nice device Good work!
I have two questions: Is there a way to see the battery level on the device? Will it charge (and with how much current) from USB?

I don't have mine yet but I did read the user guide.
Battery level isn't displayed on the LCD, instead there are 4 LEDs on the left of the PCB which indicate battery level.
The batteries do charge and the max charge current is 1.2A

At least that's what the user guide says.

[ch_scr]

It's almost as if I should have read the user guide first! Thanks for the clarification.

[Gandalf_Sr]

It's almost as if I should have read the user guide first! Thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome 

[ch_scr]

I've made a small test fixture for 0805-size parts (should work for smaller parts as well), to use the NanoVNA as LCR meter. The pogo pins used are "P160-H2" from ebay, but the SHORT cal would benefit from something higher quality. Yes, the pogo pin heads are cross drilled with a 0.6mm PCB drill to help grab them with tweezers, that was a lot easier to do than expected as well. If you are interested in self resonance of SMD parts for e.g. filter construction something like this is highly recommended. The OPEN is a piece of 2.9mm white PLA, the LOAD are two 100R 0805 soldered in parallel.

[insine]

Show us some measurement results

[Mechatrommer]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

any plan to build NanoVNA 6GHz version?

[Bud]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

What is the specification figure for Total Measurement Uncertainty ?

[Bud]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

any plan to build NanoVNA 6GHz version?

Lets be real, at this level of the hardware your measurements will not differ much from those taken using a kettle and a pot.

[ch_scr]

You say that, but still: http://www.dd1us.de/Downloads/Brief%20comparison%20of%20NanoVNA%20V2%20with%20a%20professional%20VNA%20HP-8753E.pdf
What have you got to back up your opinion?

[Mechatrommer]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

any plan to build NanoVNA 6GHz version?

Lets be real, at this level of the hardware your measurements will not differ much from those taken using a kettle and a pot.

probably the 5,6 figure price HP or R&S brand too... if price is right, i want to compare with my Deepace KC901 VNA. 2 devices to confirm each other is better than 1. sub $100 GHz VNA was never be seen before. and recently w2aew published series of videos using NanoVNA, i think he got excited with it.

https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanovna-v2/

[OwO]

Trace noise is 0.1dB typ and nonlinearity error is also ~0.1dB, and phase error is +/- 2 degrees max, at 0dB reflection magnitude. If you use perfect calibration kits that is the total measurement uncertainty for S11. Most of the time, however, the cal kits and cables are the bottleneck.
These specs apply to devices from the official manufacturer ("HCXQS" on Tindie), I have not yet characterized the clones.

[Berni]

I gave a shot at ordering one from Bandgood:
https://www.banggood.com/NanoVNA-V2-3G-50KHz-3GHz-Vector-Network-Analyzer-Tester-Antenna-Analyzer-Shortwave-S-A-A-2-Nano-Vna-HF-VHF-UHF-Cable-Tracker-p-1690543.html?rmmds=search&ID=511646&cur_warehouse=CN

Mostly because Banggood tends to be good at dodging under customs in my country. Hopefully its not a crappy performing clone.

[ch_scr]

I had a play with this, and the bottom-of-the-barrel pogo-pin made the SHORT cal infuriating. Once i got it to play ball, measurements looked reasonable.
I suspect something like the "INGUN GKS-002 206 191 A 2800" would be the next logical step up. Hmm.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Didn't notice this post until now. I was the layout and RF engineer on the nanovna V2 team. I can answer technical questions.

any plan to build NanoVNA 6GHz version?

Lets be real, at this level of the hardware your measurements will not differ much from those taken using a kettle and a pot.

It's not clear from what you wrote but I think you meant at 6GHz, right?

[Gandalf_Sr]

So my new NanoVNA V2 (S-A-A-2) arrived (very fast shipping) from Tindie and, apart from loads of flux around the through hole parts, it looks really nice.  I cleaned the PCB and fitted a 1.2 AHr battery that I already had (from HobbyKing) and that battery includes a protection circuit; in <24 hrs of testing, it seems to charge and run the VNA fine.  I didn't have the right JST-XH connector so I used a 2-pin breakable header which works fine but runs the risk of reverse polarity if I'm not very careful.

[EDIT] I fixed the R&L link...
Then I saw that R&L are selling what appears to be my VNA but with cables, Cal items (open, short, & load), and fitted with a battery, for $60.  I wish I'd known that before paying $25 to ship from China with no cables etc.

I like the NanoVNA but my old eyes find that the tiny fonts are at the limits of what I can manage so I'm happy that I've ordered a 4" display.

Here's a few pictures of my unit testing a log periodic PCB antenna (0.4-1 GHz).

[Mechatrommer]

https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanovna-v2/

is this the authorized seller? (corrected the above link) any other authorized seller in aliexpress?

Then I saw that R&L are selling what appears to be my VNA but with cables, Cal items (open, short, & load), and fitted with a battery, for $60.  I wish I'd known that before paying $25 to ship from China with no cables etc.

i think thats V1 1.5GHz max version like w2aew demo'ed

[OwO]

Only the Tindie store is official. Aliexpress, ebay, etc are mostly selling clones. R&L is probably selling Hugen manufactured units (speculation; hugen himself hasn't yet confirmed this). Only the Tindie and nanorfe store provide funding to the development team, but V2s from other manufacturers generally perform fine. Banggood seems to sell a mix of official devices and clones.

EDIT: I'm not so sure that R&L is selling hugen units because the pricing doesn't check out. The V2 is basically selling at the same price as the original Nano ($55 vs $50), even more so if you take into account the cable cost difference (the "low end" V2 bundle has a more expensive cable than the original Nano). I know for a fact that the BOM and manufacturing cost of the V2 is around double the original Nano, so whoever is supplying these units to R&L seems to be selling at extremely thin margins.

[JohnG]

- S-A-A-2 design is open source, which means anyone can manufacture it. Most clones perform fine, but please consider buying from the official stores if you want to support our development team. Other major players in the NanoVNA space do not share their design files, and all 3 of us are working on competing V3 (6GHz) designs. Please support us if you want to see an open source V3 rather than a proprietary one.

I bought mine from Tindie, $64 shipped. I am happy to pay a few extra $$ and have an open source design. For one thing, the longevity and the device itself can be improved by those who know how. After all, that approach is a major reason we have this in the first place. And I, for one, would really like to see an open source 6 GHz version, either with higher accuracy, or perhaps the option to get higher accuracy built into the design for those who are happy to buy more expensive parts or do crazy things like mount resistors upside down.

Many thanks to the designer!

Cheers,
John

[Mechatrommer]

and all 3 of us are working on competing V3 (6GHz) designs. Please support us if you want to see an open source V3 rather than a proprietary one.

put it in Crowd Fund or Kickstarter, if the price is within $200 (depending on my financial condition/recovery state ie when the timing is right) i will get one, the cheaper the better . i dont have Kickstarter account nor Crowdfund to do the "backing" stuff. but i bought Erasynth Micro from Crowdfund (Crowd Supply) after backing/production period. it seems they keep producing it for future customers. keep us informed

ps: err sorry to say... if you keep everything open (incl pcb gerber files), inevitably you will be doomed by cloners from your own flag, imho... not really a problem if that is your intention.. cheers.

[0culus]

Only the Tindie store is official. Aliexpress, ebay, etc are mostly selling clones. R&L is probably selling Hugen manufactured units (speculation; hugen himself hasn't yet confirmed this). Only the Tindie and nanorfe store provide funding to the development team, but V2s from other manufacturers generally perform fine. Banggood seems to sell a mix of official devices and clones.

EDIT: I'm not so sure that R&L is selling hugen units because the pricing doesn't check out. The V2 is basically selling at the same price as the original Nano ($55 vs $50), even more so if you take into account the cable cost difference (the "low end" V2 bundle has a more expensive cable than the original Nano). I know for a fact that the BOM and manufacturing cost of the V2 is around double the original Nano, so whoever is supplying these units to R&L seems to be selling at extremely thin margins.

I noted that you guys had them in stock again on Tindie so I took the plunge and ordered one. Can't wait to get it.  Yeah. it's not an 8510C (I am still planning to add one to my lab in order to have capability in the bands I want to work in), but this costs less than $100 and fits in your hand. Hard to argue with the what you're getting for the money based on everything I've read.

[OwO]

ps: err sorry to say... if you keep everything open (incl pcb gerber files), inevitably you will be doomed by cloners from your own flag, imho... not really a problem if that is your intention.. cheers.

Yeah, clones are going to come out whether or not you publish the layout files The original nano didn't have any publicly released layouts or gerbers, but it's cloned to death. Difference is that V2 clones tend to perform ok since they learned to use the published layouts rather than doing PCB copying. https://gitlab.com/bepissneks/S-A-A
I don't have a problem with clones as long as users can tell what they are getting.

Look forward to a 6GHz design soon. There are 3 competing players all working on their own 6GHz design; one of them even hired edy555/ttrftech. How come they are paying to develop their own design rather than wait for the OwOComm one and just clone it (which is allowed)? That is left as an exercise to the reader

[Noy]

Hi, does somebody can tell me the pcb dimensions?
I have to order some parts and will save shipping costs. I will order a nice case for my nanovna v2 which is still in transit...

I will remove the display because i don't need it. Will use it as desktop device with the pc software without battery...

[rudolf]

Hello Noy,

The dimensions are 90 x 50 x 25 (no display: 20) mm.

73, Rudi DL5FA

[Noy]

Hm, i cannot find any suitable case for this dimension.

Anybody an idea?

[Gandalf_Sr]

Hm, i cannot find any suitable case for this dimension.

Anybody an idea?

I'm waiting for my 4 inch display to arrive and then I plan to update the firmware and test. If it works well (and I can read the fonts), I plan to design a 3D-printable case for the S-A-A-2 with the 4" display that I posted a picture of earlier.

[Noy]

My 3D printer is taken apart  ... so currently i have to buy the box unfortunally..

[Gandalf_Sr]

My 3D printer is taken apart  ... so currently i have to buy the box unfortunally..

Maybe you can send files to an online company to print them for you?

[G0MJW]

Look forward to a 6GHz design soon. There are 3 competing players all working on their own 6GHz design; one of them even hired edy555/ttrftech. How come they are paying to develop their own design rather than wait for the OwOComm one and just clone it (which is allowed)? That is left as an exercise to the reader

Can you slow the development down a bit, I can't keep up! 0.9 GHz, now 4.4 GHz, next 6 GHz.

[Noy]

Hi,
my KKMOON Store version arrived (green tax sticker).
I took some pictures with the shielding dismounted please find attached.
It's "working" (only switched it on).

[Noy]

Second picture (size limitation per post...)

[OwO]

Thanks for the pictures! This one is a well known clone, but I'm still unsure about who actually manufactures it. Do you remember when your order was shipped? Can you check the firmware build time (in CONFIG > VERSION)?

[Noy]

Of course:
Aliexpress says:
Ordered: 25.5.2020 19:46 (German Time)
Shipped: 01.06.2020 18:01 (Tracking info start)

Version shown in picture.

[Kean]

Thanks for the pictures! This one is a well known clone, but I'm still unsure about who actually manufactures it. Do you remember when your order was shipped? Can you check the firmware build time (in CONFIG > VERSION)?

I am just wondering why you say "This one is a well known clone"?  What stands out to you that is different?

I compared the photos with my one that I received last week from the recommended Tindie store.  Without taking the shields off, the PCB layout and silkscreen, as well as SMD parts, look identical.
The only differences I see are the electrolytic caps - mine is missing C712 near the buttons, and the other is different brand/value.  Oh, and the addition of a battery connector on mine.

Mine has almost identical firmware version display except being git-20200607-7980406 built on May 29.

[OwO]

This clone is known for its 8 extraneous shield clips and 2 electrolytic caps. There are a lot of other subtle differences in the components used. I can usually tell whether a board is a clone with certainty by looking at the PCB bottom side, but I'm still unsure which clone types are made by whom. Once I can get a look at some clones manufactured in June or later I'll get closer to knowing who is responsible for these clones.

[Noy]

Performance difference would be interesting.
Only passive components can be different.
Are there critical ones for a good performance which should i check (LCR meter)?

Some of the IC markings are a bit "washed out" maybe they started a second life in this clones. 😉😂

I think it was 53,91€ inkl. shipping.
I ordered there because tindie hasn't got Stock.

[Kean]

This clone is known for its 8 extraneous shield clips and 2 electrolytic caps. There are a lot of other subtle differences in the components used. I can usually tell whether a board is a clone with certainty by looking at the PCB bottom side, but I'm still unsure which clone types are made by whom. Once I can get a look at some clones manufactured in June or later I'll get closer to knowing who is responsible for these clones.

Thanks.  Yeah, I had also noticed what looked like extra shield clips.
I guess if they don't have much attention to detail with things like that, then we also can't know what cheap alternative SMD parts they've picked up at the local markets.

[OwO]

The clones are fine on average since they use the published board designs, but there is a little known detail which is that the directional coupler does not have perfect yield, it is in the range of 80-90% depending on the baluns used. The rest do not pass the directivity test and have to be repaired. If this QC step is not done you can have 10-20% of devices with worse S11 trace noise. If unsure, do a SOL calibration up to 2.7GHz and keep the 50ohm load standard attached, the S11 noise floor should be around -40dB or less.

The SI5351 markings look faded but that could just be due to the double sided reflow process (board is placed on some "paper" on second reflow).

[OwO]

The yield is something like
80% if using YB006T-1023A
90% if using 617DB-1023=P3 from TOKO
>95% if using CX2156NL from PULSE

The device in the last picture has TOKO baluns, which is what everyone including clones used until all stock is depleted (in May). That balun is no longer in production, but one particular clone manufacture bought a large amount of it. If a clone is still using TOKO baluns in June, that is very good indication of who is behind it. Official devices have now moved to CX2156NL but this is much more expensive (3x price increase).

[Kean]

Official devices have now moved to CX2156NL but this is much more expensive (3x price increase).

And which is end of life...

Popped the shield on mine and the baluns look very similar to the above photo but with golden instead of red enamelled wire.

And I just cracked the LCD 

[bicycleguy]

  Sorry, but now you have an excuse to get the larger display.

[Kean]

Sorry, but now you have an excuse to get the larger display.

Yep!  I've just ordered a couple of the 4" ones linked by Gandalf_Sr above.   

[Gandalf_Sr]

Sorry, but now you have an excuse to get the larger display.

Yep!  I've just ordered a couple of the 4" ones linked by Gandalf_Sr above.   

Sorry guys, I haven't got round to loading the firmware and trying the new 4" LCD. I have plugged it into my NanoVNA V2 and it will physically work if I design a special case for it.

[czorgormez]

hi gabriel.
i am planning to buy V2 from bang good. which is the only option for me to avoiding tax problems at customs.
are they selling clones ? do you have idea. 

[Berni]

I ordered one on banggood but they only shipped it recently so it will still take some time to get here.

Will post some photos of it when it gets here.

[Berni]

The one i ordered from banggood just arrived:
https://www.banggood.com/NanoVNA-V2-3G-50KHz-3GHz-Vector-Network-Analyzer-Tester-Antenna-Analyzer-Shortwave-S-A-A-2-Nano-Vna-HF-VHF-UHF-Cable-Tracker-p-1690543.html

Attached are the photos with the shields removed and placed above the PCB. The screenshot is a 1Mhz to 3GHz sweep with Open Short Load calibration showing -43dB up to 2.7GHz. It arrived with a resistive touchscreen pen as the only accessory

[OwO]

That one looks good. It doesn't seem to be a clone (although I can't guarantee they don't mix clones with original units like "Shop5371093 Store" did).

[Kean]

Yes, that looks just like the one I got from the Tindie store with the differences highlighted by OwO/Gabriel.

From the earlier photo of the suspected clone, the TOKO baluns seem to have a slightly different base with small protrusions which don't exist on the Pulse balun.  That matches photos of the TOKO part on AliExpress and diagrams in the corresponding datasheets.  I took a closer look at the baluns on mine, and the enamelled wires are actually red, they just look golden when viewed from directly above.  They don't have the protrusions so I'm pretty sure they are the Pulse balun.

[edigi]

I've also received my NanoVNA v2 (in the menu shown as version 2.2) and after calibrating it with the received cal kit to 2.5, 3.2 and 4.4 GHz (the max) I've made a quick test with my SMA attenuators (40 and 50dB).
Result pictures attached.

Note to previous posts: If you don't see a C<number> in my understanding it's not calibrated.

I think it's pretty OK till 3GHz.

[edigi]

I've decided to push the attenuation to the limits of the NanoVNA meaning 60 and 65dB.
With this attenuation the noise shows up quite remarkably in almost all frequencies. Maybe averaging could help...
This is where the older (v1) version of the NanoVNA can still compete. It has less noise in case of low frequencies.

[OwO]

Latest firmware has some noise improvements at lower frequencies using AGC.

[cdev]

I now have an SAA2 and its great. But I am having a problem using the software on Linux. The software starts with the menus on the top greyed out, and doesnt recognize (it doesnt even show the menu) or put the VNA into USB mode, unless I start it as root.

Ive compiled it properly because it does run as a privileged user.
It likely needs a udev.rules file, so I have been trying to figure out the magic incantation that works..

The only thing I can think of is I have tried an awful lot of software- I have at various times both installed from debs and source, a great many other programs (one example, sigrok another FX2prog) that use the Cypress FX2 in various ways installed. Also I have been playing around with installing other software ion the $2 stlink 2 clones.

Perhaps some interaction between them? 

But anyway, the nanovna2 has been a lot of fun for me so far and Ive been like everybody else, taking all my old antennas and homemade patch cables and retesting them and making some new ones

[1anX]

I have just ordered the V2 from Tindie and am looking at software and firmware for it.

It seems as I'm a win10 os user that both the vna_qt and NanoVNA Saver should work on the NanoVNA V2. Plenty of feedback for the original NanoVNA V1 and mentioned software but hard to find for the V2.

Has anyone run the vna_qt and Saver software on their V2 successfully?

[0culus]

NanoVNA Saver works just fine with my V2...just make sure you have the latest version.

[edigi]

The drawing in CW mode seems to have some bug as the scale and Smith chart is at least missing.

[edigi]

Latest firmware has some noise improvements at lower frequencies using AGC.

The fonts have got better and there is indeed some noise improvement but it's not too big (I've used 60dB attenuation).

[edigi]

I'm happy to report that 4" LCD change works like a charm (but due to lack of case I had to put back both the original LCD and firmware as well).
After the firmware upgrade although I could bring up the menu, I could not select menu points so probably some calibration is required after the change.

Strangely the 4" LCD without any firmware change shows a large part of the drawing (so the controllers must be indeed very similar).
When putting back the original firmware it has stuck around half so I had to restart it. Not even my calibrations were lost though.

I also did not expect to find a 2000mAh battery (which is glued to the back of the original LCD...).
OwO and others of this project created a really excellent piece of equipment.

[flolic]

After the firmware upgrade although I could bring up the menu, I could not select menu points so probably some calibration is required after the change

You need to calibrate new larger screen.
You can access calibration menu using push buttons.

[edigi]

I've found a new bug.
When multiple markers are used, higher frequencies turn to negative values (probably due to some number representation issue like signed 32bits).

[all_repair]

nanoLab is owned by Hugen.  He was the one that made nanoVNA popular by his offering.  Very fair guy that is worth supporting.  Get the nanoVNA H4, or wait for the 4 inch dsiplay for the S-A-A-22 which should be coming out soon.  Unless you totally connect it to your PC, 2.8inch display is too small.

[OwO]

No, the official taobao store for the V2 is "HCXQS group", same name as the Tindie store: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=611527678459

[aristarchus]

nanoLab is owned by Hugen.  He was the one that made nanoVNA popular by his offering.  Very fair guy that is worth supporting.  Get the nanoVNA H4, or wait for the 4 inch dsiplay for the S-A-A-22 which should be coming out soon.  Unless you totally connect it to your PC, 2.8inch display is too small.

+1

Got a NanoVNA H4 from hugen and all I can say is wow, he knows how to offer real quality.
Complete package, case, cables, calibration items, perfectly working, an end product not a half finished job.
Even now though he got an SSA-2 packaged with case, cables, SOLT and carrying bag.
https://world.taobao.com/item/620606324940.htm?spm=a21wu.11804641-tw.0.0.16ef5bedIxkuEg

I'll wait until he gets out with his own next package, as some posts say it will be an H4-like with 4"LCD, adding microSD storage, RTC and SI4432.

Anyway, there seems to be quite a few good products there in this VNA area that give users great low budget VFM performance, these are good VNA times 

[Kean]

@OwO: do you take donations? I'd like to contribute 100 Yuan.

Ditto (20 AUD)

[Brumby]

I have NO justification for having one of these on my bench ....




..... but I'm getting an itch to acquire one.   

[aargee]

Purchased one from the Tindie store, curious to play and experiment with RF, which I haven’t seriously looked at since my Uni days.
I went with the Tindie one for it’s more likely closer specifications. I’ll 3D print my own case.

[OwO]

So I went with the NanoLab one just for the preinstalled case and battery. Seems like a fair guy with decent product quality, unless there is a catch.

@OwO: do you take donations? I'd like to contribute 100 Yuan.

We don't take donations. Most of the cloners probably don't check for directivity, but for measuring antennas it really doesn't matter (20dB calibrated directivity is more than good enough). Hugen simply copied my board design verbatim and started selling it (which is fine), but he does seem to manipulate his order count on taobao in order to grab market share (look at the 20+ reviews from the same person on the same day).

[OwO]

I don't run the store so I can't comment on that. Can't you get an invoice from taobao/alipay directly?

[OwO]

Well, I don't think they want to sell to the government. If you mean reimbursement as in buying something for work, don't you just take a screenshot of your orders page and use that as proof?

[dougg]

I now have an SAA2 and its great. But I am having a problem using the software on Linux. The software starts with the menus on the top greyed out, and doesnt recognize (it doesnt even show the menu) or put the VNA into USB mode, unless I start it as root.

Ive compiled it properly because it does run as a privileged user.
It likely needs a udev.rules file, so I have been trying to figure out the magic incantation that works..

The only thing I can think of is I have tried an awful lot of software- I have at various times both installed from debs and source, a great many other programs (one example, sigrok another FX2prog) that use the Cypress FX2 in various ways installed. Also I have been playing around with installing other software ion the $2 stlink 2 clones.

Perhaps some interaction between them? 

But anyway, the nanovna2 has been a lot of fun for me so far and Ive been like everybody else, taking all my old antennas and homemade patch cables and retesting them and making some new ones

With regard to not getting access with a non-root user it might be your non-root user's group permissions. On Ubuntu 20.04 I see:
$ ls -l /dev/ttyUSB0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 188, 0 Jul 13 10:11 /dev/ttyUSB0

So that indicates the group name for ttyUSB0 is dialout. Then in /etc/group I (user: dougg) need this line:
dialout:x:20:dougg

before that edit (which needed root permissions) 'dougg' was not there. Then you may need to log out your user and log back in again before that takes effect.

Hope this helps.

[cdev]

Well, I have to say, you have really done a huge thing by upping the quality and performance level of affordable VNAs the way you have. I have been basically been spending hours each day fooling around with mine. It really is giving life to the theory.

So I went with the NanoLab one just for the preinstalled case and battery. Seems like a fair guy with decent product quality, unless there is a catch.

@OwO: do you take donations? I'd like to contribute 100 Yuan.

We don't take donations. Most of the cloners probably don't check for directivity, but for measuring antennas it really doesn't matter (20dB calibrated directivity is more than good enough). Hugen simply copied my board design verbatim and started selling it (which is fine), but he does seem to manipulate his order count on taobao in order to grab market share (look at the 20+ reviews from the same person on the same day).

[thinkfat]

So, my S-A-A-2 was in the mailbox this morning. Complete with SOLT and two cables, had forgotten meanwhile that I didn't order the full kit including battery..
No problem, I have a battery going spare, just need to fix it up with a different JST connector.

First task was to measure a DiY WiFi antenna I made a long time ago. Seems to be fine, resonates where it should, proper, real 50 Ohms with a pico of inductance.

I even compiled the control software for Linux, but quite honestly, the device UI is easier to work with.

Kudos, this is a nice addition to my growing test gear collection.

[KD0CAC John]

I went to the TaoBao web site to buy the nanoVNA SAA2 , 1st thing is most of it does not make sense , no fixed price -it says y 2.00 -378.00 .
I clicked on both [ at different times ] add to cart & buy now and do not see any response or cart or move to next step to buy

And no where that I can find a statement about screen size ?

Finely got to what looked like checkout , or close , seems like every page / click - it goes to another page in Chinese , even though each preceding page I click on english .
Too many things that I do not like to do , are adding up , 1 email , 2 phone number - defiantly not giving , 3 without giving all of the 1st two , it looks like the only way to pay is with there own payment Alipay what ever .
I get too many junk/phishing phone calls already and I do not trust too many payment methods attached to my card / bank .
Are there more standard methods ?   

[cdev]

I'd really love it if there was a metal case that took the larger size display.

I'm a bit worried about putting it in a plastic case, do the people with plastic 3D printed cases worry about it getting too hot?

[Mechatrommer]

Juat cancelled my order at Hugen, only to find your store cannot issue a tax invoice, making reimbursement impossible. So had to order from him again.

what the tax will be? $10-20.. use your imagination! what kind of big company that thinks that figure does matter?

[AlfBaz]

I purchased one from Tindie and it was here within 5 days

I'm having a lot of fun with it and learning how to use it through w2aew's youtube channel.

I know nothing about vna's so excuse this probably dumb question.
Alan uses the original nanovna and in the calibration it shows the extra isolation calibration which doesn't appear in the s-a-a-2
I'm struggling to find information regarding this calibration. What is the purpose of it and why is it missing from the new version?

[OwO]

The isolation calibration step is now done automatically during Short and Open calibration. There are two stored leakage coefficients, since leakage is a function of reflection coefficient on port 1. This allows better correction of leakage than only measuring leakage with port 1 terminated.

[thinkfat]

The clones are fine on average since they use the published board designs, but there is a little known detail which is that the directional coupler does not have perfect yield, it is in the range of 80-90% depending on the baluns used. The rest do not pass the directivity test and have to be repaired. If this QC step is not done you can have 10-20% of devices with worse S11 trace noise. If unsure, do a SOL calibration up to 2.7GHz and keep the 50ohm load standard attached, the S11 noise floor should be around -40dB or less.

I've checked mine for noise floor, looks like it's OK, stays below -40dB between 50kHz and 2.7GHz. Are there other performance checks that could be performed?

[Berni]

There are specs for it on the official website:
https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v2.html#specifications

I wouldn't expect a lengthy 20 page datasheet of specs like you might get with a VNA from Keysight, but i suppose it does cover the major point pretty well. That return loss of port 2 should be easily measurable by connecting it to port 1 with a cable, but you do need a good 50 Ohm terminator to calibrate it for best results.

[1anX]

I went to the TaoBao web site to buy the nanoVNA SAA2 , 1st thing is most of it does not make sense , no fixed price -it says y 2.00 -378.00 .
I clicked on both [ at different times ] add to cart & buy now and do not see any response or cart or move to next step to buy

I bought mine from Tindie! https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanovna-v2/
Follow the link its all in English language and easy to purchase from online with all the usual options.

[OwO]

Port 2 return loss isn't great in both original and clone devices at 3GHz, it's just an artifact of the old design from last year before I actually took a closer look at the transition tuning, but you can attach a 5dB or 6dB attenuator to improve that. In the next revision I'll improve it to 25dB across the whole range, but that will have to wait until all the current stock are sold which I hear is several months.

[thinkfat]

Decided to update the firmware and I'm quite happy with the bigger fonts. The noise level has maybe changed a bit, but I can hardly make it out.

The software update process is a bit unsettling however. It didn't work at all throught the Qt software. It took forever and the upload progress didn't change, so I interrupted it eventually and the device didn't boot up any more. So apparently it did something, but never showed what and never completed.

So, I went with the dfu.py script and that also didn't go terribly well. Initially, it found the device but then reported a read timeout and that the device wasn't in DFU mode (which it clearly was). Repeated trials eventually got it to show some dots but it got stuck along the way. I had to repeat the update a couple of times and I was at the brink of breaking out a soldering iron to populate the SWD header to recover the device when it finally completed. That is something that needs more care.

[OwO]

So, I went with the dfu.py script and that also didn't go terribly well. Initially, it found the device but then reported a read timeout and that the device wasn't in DFU mode (which it clearly was). Repeated trials eventually got it to show some dots but it got stuck along the way. I had to repeat the update a couple of times and I was at the brink of breaking out a soldering iron to populate the SWD header to recover the device when it finally completed. That is something that needs more care.

That sounds like something else is writing to the serial port - maybe modem-manager or something like that? Which OS was this on?

[thinkfat]

So, I went with the dfu.py script and that also didn't go terribly well. Initially, it found the device but then reported a read timeout and that the device wasn't in DFU mode (which it clearly was). Repeated trials eventually got it to show some dots but it got stuck along the way. I had to repeat the update a couple of times and I was at the brink of breaking out a soldering iron to populate the SWD header to recover the device when it finally completed. That is something that needs more care.

That sounds like something else is writing to the serial port - maybe modem-manager or something like that? Which OS was this on?

Oh boy, yes. You're correct. There was a minicom lurking in the background. The ttyACM0 was previously something else and I forgot that I had the terminal program still running!

[1anX]

Got my V2 so I tried out the software available for it. VNA_QT_Windows 10 works like a charm and nanoVNA Saver V 0.3.6 for Windows 10 also works, but a little bit trickier (flaky) to set up.

The little nanoVNA V2 worked really well, easy to set up and calibrate and quickly connected to vna_qt software. 

I got the acrylic case included in the purchase as an easy way to put it in a protective box. Its fiddly to put together and to get the plastic film off the the cut shapes, but it works ok and the clear acrylic makes it easy to see the leds working. Just make sure you check the cut out slots for fit, as there are 2 different slot sizes. Trying to fit the thick plate into the narrow slot does not work out too well. Finally noticed the difference spun the plate around and screwed it in.

What a handly little easy to use analyser!

[cdev]

Got my V2 so I tried out the software available for it. VNA_QT_Windows 10 works like a charm and nanoVNA Saver V 0.3.6 for Windows 10 also works, but a little bit trickier (flaky) to set up.

The little nanoVNA V2 worked really well, easy to set up and calibrate and quickly connected to vna_qt software. 

I got the acrylic case included in the purchase as an easy way to put it in a protective box. Its fiddly to put together and to get the plastic film off the the cut shapes, but it works ok and the clear acrylic makes it easy to see the leds working. Just make sure you check the cut out slots for fit, as there are 2 different slot sizes. Trying to fit the thick plate into the narrow slot does not work out too well. Finally noticed the difference spun the plate around and screwed it in.

What a handly little easy to use analyser!

I just love mine, I've been learning so much with it.

Is the pattern for the acrylic case online anywhere? I urgently need to make a case for mine.

[1anX]

I just love mine, I've been learning so much with it.

Is the pattern for the acrylic case online anywhere? I urgently need to make a case for mine.

If you have access to a 3D printer here is a link for the files to a really nice case!

https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/30212-case-for-nanovna-v2

[Kean]

I got my 4" replacement LCD (and a spare) the other day.  I programmed the latest firmware and it is working again.

The only problem I had was working out how to load the firmware from the VNA_QT app - it wasn't clear that you manually put the device into DFU mode first via the menu (via the buttons due to an uncalibrated touch screen), and then the VNA_QT app recognises it is in DFU mode and prompts to upload new firmware.

Anyway I'm happy as the 4" screen is a big improvement, but I definitely need to work out an enclosure of some sort now as there is otherwise no way to support the larger LCD.

[cdev]

Thank you. Maybe I can figure out a way to make my own using something I have, it needs to be protected. 

I just love mine, I've been learning so much with it.

Is the pattern for the acrylic case online anywhere? I urgently need to make a case for mine.

If you have access to a 3D printer here is a link for the files to a really nice case!

https://www.prusaprinters.org/prints/30212-case-for-nanovna-v2

[Gandalf_Sr]

I'm now ready to update the firmware on my Tindie-supplied S-A-A-2 so that it works with the new 4 inch display.  Can anyone please confirm the correct firmware location to apply?

Thanks  

[Kean]

I'm now ready to update the firmware on my Tindie-supplied S-A-A-2 so that it works with the new 4 inch display.  Can anyone please confirm the correct firmware location to apply?

Thanks

Use binary-st7796.bin from https://github.com/nanovna/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/releases/tag/20200619

[Gandalf_Sr]

I got my 4" replacement LCD (and a spare) the other day.  I programmed the latest firmware and it is working again.

The only problem I had was working out how to load the firmware from the VNA_QT app - it wasn't clear that you manually put the device into DFU mode first via the menu (via the buttons due to an uncalibrated touch screen), and then the VNA_QT app recognises it is in DFU mode and prompts to upload new firmware.

Anyway I'm happy as the 4" screen is a big improvement, but I definitely need to work out an enclosure of some sort now as there is otherwise no way to support the larger LCD.

I plan to design a new 3D printed case for the stock S-A-A-2 with the 4" display but it's still on my to do list.  Do you have (or have access to) a 3D printer?

[mdkendall]

If anyone is interested, I made a couple of changes to the NanoVNA-QT software that I think are small improvements. First, I changed the number of frequency divisions in the main plot from nine to a more conventional ten. Second, I made some changes to the Sweep Parameters dialog to allow entering either start and stop or center and span, along with some minor fixes and tidying.



I only built the release for Windows I'm afraid, but the source is all there if anyone wants to build for Linux or Mac:
https://github.com/mdkendall/NanoVNA-QT
https://github.com/mdkendall/NanoVNA-QT/releases/latest

[ab#FFFF]

I've got 2 questions maybe someone can answer:
1. Why the lower frequency is limited to 50kHz? It is possible to go under that frequency?
2. There is an official NanoVNA V2 that comes with a 4" display?

Thanks,
-ab

[edigi]

1. Why the lower frequency is limited to 50kHz? It is possible to go under that frequency?

In the latest version actually it's 10kHz but NanoVNA is fundamentally an RF tool and it's hard to handle such a wide frequency range (for example among others to separate the incident and the reflected signal).
If you're looking to check something below 50kHz with NanoVNAv2 probably you're looking the wrong tool.
The other end of the frequency range is more interesting actually.

2. There is an official NanoVNA V2 that comes with a 4" display?

Probably it's just a matter of time (I don't know about any at the moment although I'm not continuously checking it) since more of us from here made it working with the 4" display (and it required nothing more than plugging in a new LCD module and changing to a firmware supporting it that is readily available).

[Kean]

[I plan to design a new 3D printed case for the stock S-A-A-2 with the 4" display but it's still on my to do list.  Do you have (or have access to) a 3D printer?

Yes, I have a few 3D printers here (ABS/PLA/Resin).  FWIW I use Fusion 360 for modelling.  I just won't have much free time over the next month or two.
Looking forward to see what you come up with.

[Gandalf_Sr]

Yes, I have a few 3D printers here (ABS/PLA/Resin).  FWIW I use Fusion 360 for modelling.  I just won't have much free time over the next month or two.
Looking forward to see what you come up with.

No promises but I may get to it in the next week or so.  I taught myself FreeCAD (vn 0.16) and it does well for the price.

[Gandalf_Sr]

So I got round to upgrading the firmware to the version that handles the 4 inch display.  For those who haven't done it before:
1. Get the new .bin file ready.
2. Plug in your NanoVNA and check which port it comes up on.
3. Turn the NanoVNA on and put it into DFU mode via touch menus.
4. Plug into USB port.
5. Run up NanoVNA_QT
6. Select the port under device
7. You should now see a pop up window that says found device in DFU mode, do you want to upgrade firmware (or something close to that)
8. Click [Yes], browse to .bin file, and click [OK]
9. When it's finished unplug and power off NanoVNA
10. Fit new display and power on, it should work.

I recalibrated my touch screen after the upgrade but it was close anyway so the menus worked.  I removed (carefully) an SD card reader that was fitted to my display as it interferes with the fit.  I must say that the larger display and font has made this very usable for me, much easier to read now.

This may inspire me to design a case for it

[SHF]

Hi  Gandalf_Sr where did you buy the 4 inch display for the nanovna?

[Gandalf_Sr]

Hi  Gandalf_Sr where did you buy the 4 inch display for the nanovna?

I got it from AliExpress, the link is in this post on the first page of this thread. That link is problematic, says item doesn't exist - [EDIT] removed link to one that doesn't have the touch panel. See next post below with a link to the correct display from Amazon.

I was not happy that my new display was not attached firmly to the NanoVNA and then I had an idea.  The posts that came with mine are brass so, with a really powerful soldering iron, it should be possible to scrape away the solder mask to reveal the copper on the display PCB, tin the exposed area, and then solder the posts on.  I did this and it works. See pictures. 

[Kean]

Hi  Gandalf_Sr where did you buy the 4 inch display for the nanovna?

I got it from AliExpress, the link is in this post on the first page of this thread. That link is problematic, says item doesn't exist - here it is.  It would be better if you could find it without the SD card holder but it's easy to remove it.

Except that new listing seems to not have the optional touch included.   

I also bought some of the ones in the original AliExpress listing which has now dissappeared.

Edit to add: as mentioned by someone earlier, when scanning listings for similar LCDs note that some sellers list the 3.5" ones as 4", so you need to review the specs/measurements

I was not happy that my new display was not attached firmly to the NanoVNA and then I had an idea.  The posts that came with mine are brass so, with a really powerful soldering iron, it should be possible to scrape away the copper on the display PCB, tin the exposed area, and then solder the posts on.  I did this and it works. See pictures.

Oh, neat idea.  I'll try that too.

[Berni]

Hi  Gandalf_Sr where did you buy the 4 inch display for the nanovna?

I got it from AliExpress, the link is in this post on the first page of this thread. That link is problematic, says item doesn't exist - here it is.  It would be better if you could find it without the SD card holder but it's easy to remove it.

Except that new listing seems to not have the optional touch included.   

I also bought some of the ones in the original AliExpress listing which has now dissappeared.

Edit to add: as mentioned by someone earlier, when scanning listings for similar LCDs note that some sellers list the 3.5" ones as 4", so you need to review the specs/measurements

Yeah i made the mistake of ordering the wrong one. Have not looked at the listing very much, mostly went off the photos. But then i got it and it turns out it doesn't have touch.
So yeah im gonna have to order a new one.

[Kean]

Yeah i made the mistake of ordering the wrong one. Have not looked at the listing very much, mostly went off the photos. But then i got it and it turns out it doesn't have touch.
So yeah im gonna have to order a new one.

Not the end of the world - it can also be controlled via the 3 menu buttons, or over USB.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I found this one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/480x320-Display-Module-ST7796S-Driver/dp/B08C5FFX9P/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=480x320+ST7796S&qid=1596014221&s=electronics&sr=1-2 from DONGKERUS

It looks just like the one I got but it's $19

You'd also have to remove the SD card reader but that's no big deal IMHO.

[EDIT] I also just found this one on AliExpress, please check but I think it's the right one. 

[Gandalf_Sr]

Can anyone point me to a dimensioned drawing of the V2 PCB (Tindie version) so I can work on my 3D printed case ideas?

[cdev]

There is also a new, nice metal case being included with one of the NanoVNA clones.

I wish that an upgrade pacage was available with the case and the compatible screen. A larger size would be great, with a metal case and an appropriate substrate for the current nanovna.  Worth making, if anybody has metal fabrication skills.

I found this one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/480x320-Display-Module-ST7796S-Driver/dp/B08C5FFX9P/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=480x320+ST7796S&qid=1596014221&s=electronics&sr=1-2 from DONGKERUS

It looks just like the one I got but it's $19

You'd also have to remove the SD card reader but that's no big deal IMHO.

It would be great to have a SD card slot for saving calibration setups long term while operating portable. That is a feature I would appreciate in the firmware a lot.

I am concerned about heat in a plastic case. Unless it has ventilation.

[Gandalf_Sr]

It would be great to have a SD card slot for saving calibration setups long term while operating portable. That is a feature I would appreciate in the firmware a lot.

I am concerned about heat in a plastic case. Unless it has ventilation.

The 4" display I'm using has a 4 pin connector at the left edge but there's no corresponding connector on the NanoVNA V2 so it's all redundant.  I will allow for air flow through my case design which, in case it's not obvious, is a design for the standard NanoVNA V2 with the 4" display fitted as per my recent pictures.

[AlfBaz]

This sounds like a great little mechanical project. I have 2 of the 4" displays comming and I'm good with verniers and inventor.

I'm thinking maybe I can come up with a printed mount of sorts that can be used to mount into a standard extruded case.

If they're not here by the weekend I might try and model the parts anyway and see what, if anything, I can come up with

[Berni]

For my second try i ordered this display instead: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000966874873.html
Its 15 bucks with shipping from Europe.

Really made sure it has touch this time. So hope it works out.

[Gandalf_Sr]

For my second try i ordered this display instead: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000966874873.html
Its 15 bucks with shipping from Europe.

Really made sure it has touch this time. So hope it works out.

I think that's a good one, hope it works out for you.

[sn0w_gl0be]

Hey everyone,

First post here (yay) after lurking for a little bit. Since the authorized dealer is on Tindie, is the one on Amazon by Aursinc just a fancy clone?

[OwO]

Yes all amazon, ebay, and aliexpress sellers are now selling bad clones. I'm getting emails about defective NanoVNA V2 devices every week now and they all turn out to be clones. If you have to buy a clone go for the 3.2'' version. This one has the least defect reports and seems to be well built.

Btw there will be a small hardware upgrade soon (1 month or so) that will allow 2x faster sweep and lower noise. It will be called V2-N and will only be released outside of China to keep off the clones for a while.

[OwO]

Do you mind if I order an exception unit?

Just PM me for a free sample. I think I'll have a lot of prototypes ready in a few weeks.

[edigi]

I'm interested in it as well, but I'm also ready to pay for it.

[thinkfat]

Yes all amazon, ebay, and aliexpress sellers are now selling bad clones. I'm getting emails about defective NanoVNA V2 devices every week now and they all turn out to be clones. If you have to buy a clone go for the 3.2'' version. This one has the least defect reports and seems to be well built.

Btw there will be a small hardware upgrade soon (1 month or so) that will allow 2x faster sweep and lower noise. It will be called V2-N and will only be released outside of China to keep off the clones for a while.

Layout change or just a BOM change? Something that could be retrofitted into an existing device?

[OwO]

It's a slight architectural change, so layout is modified and firmware support will need some work too. It's mainly ADF4350 fast lock, reworking the mixer signal path and noise reductions.

[Hydron]

I'm interested in it as well, but I'm also ready to pay for it.

Same here - price seems very fair for what it is, and I appreciate the efforts trying to stop people getting burnt by bad clones. Are there any plans for a case etc too? Or is 3d printing one the way to go?

[sn0w_gl0be]

I'll echo this. I don't mind buying what would be my third NanoVNA (first official one) assuming it's ~$100.

[KD0CAC John]

OwO ,

I have older eyes so the need for a larger screen 4" ?
Also no printer here so would like a case also .
I can wait , I would prefer to buy from You and or from at least one of the developers [ seems like there are 2 or more ? ]

Thanks for your efforts

[cdev]

Gabriel,

Your organization should put together a case, 4 inch screen package with a "mother board" to mount both the existing NanoVNA and the posts to keep it all together on. You could sell it direct.

Frankly, I am so overjoyed to have such a useful tool, I want to support your efforts by buying all my accessories through you..

OwO ,

I have older eyes so the need for a larger screen 4" ?
Also no printer here so would like a case also .
I can wait , I would prefer to buy from You and or from at least one of the developers [ seems like there are 2 or more ? ]

Thanks for your efforts

[OwO]

I don't sell these, I'm just one of the engineers. I think the V2-N will be priced basically the same as the current V2 on Tindie.

There are plans for a 4 inch version, but it will be a major redesign and not just swapping in a 4 inch display (which I'll leave to the clones). The aim is 5x faster sweep (500 points/s). We might hire someone from here to do the enclosure design.

[KD0CAC John]

Oh ok .
I have no problem if getting more / costs more , bigger screen for old eyes & case .
Hopefully I could get on a mailing list of this version of one of these ?

Just sold my Sark110 because the screen was too small , and saw these around - NanoVNA .
Have a miniVNA Pro , MFJ-269 , had a Timewave TZ-900 .
Besides what ever bench gear I can afford , mainly broken and get twice the fun out of them - learn how to fix and then use , the best of both worlds .

[OwO]

We are working on getting a 3D case included with the current 2.8 inch version and maybe even a battery. We didn't go with a metal enclosure because it was found to worsen port to port isolation.

Are there any plans for a case etc too? Or is 3d printing one the way to go?

[TimNJ]

We are working on getting a 3D case included with the current 2.8 inch version and maybe even a battery. We didn't go with a metal enclosure because it was found to worsen port to port isolation.

Are there any plans for a case etc too? Or is 3d printing one the way to go?

I know you are not the seller, but can you suggest to make the case available standalone too? I would like to buy a case for my V2.

[OwO]

So we ended up getting permission from one of the members of the community to use their 3D printed case design. I don't think it will be sold standalone but you can always just 3D print it.

[OwO]

I have now prototypes of the 4 inch version with 400 points/s sweep rate. The noise floor stays at around -80dB up to 1.5GHz even with the faster sweep. The DSP code can go up to 500 points/s but the UI refresh almost doesn't keep up when the 4 inch display is used, so it'll have to be 400 points/s.

V2-N will be renamed to V2 Plus to avoid confusion with another NanoVNA variant. I think it'll be available in a week or two. The improvements are 200 points/s sweep (compared to 100 points/s for the current V2) and a bit lower noise floor.

The 3D enclosure and battery option will also be available in a week or two, maybe a bit earlier than the V2 Plus.

EDIT: typo

[TimNJ]

So we ended up getting permission from one of the members of the community to use their 3D printed case design. I don't think it will be sold standalone but you can always just 3D print it.

Are you referring to ch_scr's case, post #2 of this thread?

[cdev]

I don't think V2-Plus is such a good name. Also, V2-N may be N now, but at some point there will be a newer N. I think you could probably think of a much better name.  You could have a numerical name that gives the most important specs, and a model name that has a kind of fun or endearing quality - which is unique. Try to think of some cultural name - maybe a character for a TV soap opera or manga or mythology you all like (if there is such a thing)  ?

bla bla bla.. Or at least thats what I think.

I totally know what you mean about a metal case sometimes causing problems. I am dealing with that right now with a LNA that I am trying to put into a nicer metal box. Its hard to get it right, where the box really makes a big improvement instead of making issues like unwanted USB-originating noise worse..  Because so many cases now have an anodized outer metal shell, (which doesnt conduct electricity!) they are really crap. The ones that look semi decent are more often than not crap. Here is what I am trying to do. Put a picece of copper - not coppper tape, on the inside to be the actual grounded thing. A c shaped piece of copper that connects to everything as if it was the case. It doesnt have to enclose it completely, the outer case is for the looks. And it conducts inside. Just not on its surface. The [iece of copper flashing is simply to create a common ground point thats very low impedance, between the two connectors (and the USB) thats  not the PCB.

That works with an LNA.

I need every bit of help I can get with my local RF noise.

Gradually the noise where I live has just been getting worse and worse. Some of it is not coming from here so its very hard to get rid of. I need to get a small radio and literally hunt its source down.



Try using a piece of metal to see if that makes the metal case work acceptably well. The two horns they have on that other case are nice to protect the connectors. They are likely trying to sell below their cost.

I have now prototypes of the 4 inch version with 400 points/s sweep rate. The noise floor stays at around -80dB up to 1.5GHz even with the faster sweep. The DSP code can go up to 500 points/s but the UI fresh almost doesn't keep up when the 4 inch display is used, so it'll have to be 400 points/s.

V2-N will be renamed to V2 Plus to avoid confusion with another NanoVNA variant. I think it'll be available in a week or two. The improvements are 200 points/s sweep (compared to 100 points/s for the current V2) and a bit lower noise floor.

The 3D enclosure and battery option will also be available in a week or two, maybe a bit earlier than the V2 Plus.

[joeqsmith]

I have now prototypes of the 4 inch version with 400 points/s sweep rate. The noise floor stays at around -80dB up to 1.5GHz even with the faster sweep. The DSP code can go up to 500 points/s but the UI fresh almost doesn't keep up when the 4 inch display is used, so it'll have to be 400 points/s.

V2-N will be renamed to V2 Plus to avoid confusion with another NanoVNA variant. I think it'll be available in a week or two. The improvements are 200 points/s sweep (compared to 100 points/s for the current V2) and a bit lower noise floor.

The 3D enclosure and battery option will also be available in a week or two, maybe a bit earlier than the V2 Plus.

Very nice.  For headless, can you get the data across the USB fast enough to run 500pps?   

[OwO]

Are you referring to ch_scr's case, post #2 of this thread?

Yes

For headless, can you get the data across the USB fast enough to run 500pps?   

Should be doable, but it's a bit more noisy at 500 points/s.

I think V2 Plus is a good name, there was "miniVNA Tiny plus" and "miniVNA Tiny plus2"

[0culus]

Definitely gonna keep my eye on the store...of course it comes out right after I got a standard V2. 

[OwO]

Yeah, the reason we have to push out a new design so fast is because others have started selling our V2 design at extremely thin margins and with fancier packaging. HCXQS had not even 6 months to sell the V2 before getting overtaken by clones. They are the only manufacturer supporting the developers, so please help us and keep reminding people that only HCXQS on Tindie is the official manufacturer and supports the original developers. We had to move to a new groups.io forum because the admins on the old nanovna-v2 forum (none of HCXQS people or I are admins, go figure) keep promoting a clone as if they are official.

New support group is here: https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2

[thinkfat]

When you have the new 4" design ready, I'll certainly buy from the tindie store. Just make sure they have stock I only bought from Aliexpress because of that, but I made sure to check with you beforehand which store sells original equipment.

[avlijas.sladjan]

Hi. I received V2, and it worked perfectly. I hope that mine is original, not clone (I will love to support real developer).
Before V2, I was working on my version of VNA (to have a small VNA for 25M-4G, together with nanoVNA v1), and make a v0.1 HW version + software/firmware (I implement nanoVNA command set to be compatible with NanoVNA saver software). But I found some bug in HW (PLL internal interference), and did not have time to fix and finish (covid stopped all work and post service). But after some time I see on aliexpress V2, and now my project doesn't make sense.
Thanks again for nanoVNA V2, it is very very good. Also, for better calibration, you can change load with some better (I use amphenol 18GHz 50ohm load), and that improves s11 measurement

[JohnG]

We didn't go with a metal enclosure because it was found to worsen port to port isolation.

This can often be greatly helped by adhering a layer of carbon-impregnated anti-static foam to the inside of the case in strategic locations. The foam needs to be the black kind that DIP ICs and such used to come in. You should be able to measure some level of conductivity of the foam with an ohmmeter for it to work well.

John

[TimNJ]

Are you referring to ch_scr's case, post #2 of this thread?

Yes

Not sure if you mean you (HCXQS) will ship units with ch_scr's case, or it'll just become it the official 3D printing recommendation.

Two pieces of feedback, and one already noted:

1. Battery status indicators not visible (Add holes?)
2. The space for the 18650 cell should be a little bit longer, at least 72mm on the inner dimensions. No one should be using an unprotected 18650 cell, unless the NanoVNA V2 has built in battery protection IC. If not,  need 18650 with protection PCB. The allocated space in this design is only 67.5mm.

Typical protected cell here: https://www.jauch.com/downloadfile/5c3d9cd710f29e9c09d67ef33e58d94ac/3350mah_-_li18650jp_1s1p_2_wires_70mm.pdf

[OwO]

Yes, we got permission to let HCXQS offer the case on Tindie with the V2. The 18650 hole is lengthened, and the batteries have the protection board on the side, so lengthening it by 2mm was enough.
The enclosure material is translucent white and you can see the indicator LEDs.

[TimNJ]

Yes, we got permission to let HCXQS offer the case on Tindie with the V2. The 18650 hole is lengthened, and the batteries have the protection board on the side, so lengthening it by 2mm was enough.
The enclosure material is translucent white and you can see the indicator LEDs.

Cool. In terms of "sell-ability", I strongly believe the translucent material gives off a "less premium" look. I know we're talking about a $60USD VNA, so perhaps trying to say it's a premium product is a bit of a contradiction...although I do believe the hardware is excellent!

Something funny about the red and green PCBs together makes it seem like someone's Arduino project. I am typically very aesthetically minded, so those are just my comments. An SLA print is best, but SLS probably cheaper, but should be media tumbled after to get anywhere near a finished looking product.

As others have said, although it's an engineering tool (and perhaps looks shouldn't matter as much), most people buying these are every-day people acting as consumers. When they see a shiny V2 clone in a beautiful case next to a genuine V2 which ironically looks a bit half-baked, it's a tough decision.

[aargee]

I made my case out of red PLA and the LEDs show through the case nicely. 

[OwO]

As others have said, although it's an engineering tool (and perhaps looks shouldn't matter as much), most people buying these are every-day people acting as consumers. When they see a shiny V2 clone in a beautiful case next to a genuine V2 which ironically looks a bit half-baked, it's a tough decision.

Agreed, I'm going to forward your suggestion to do some post-processing on the 3D printed enclosure. Thanks!

[cdev]

I have quite a bit of experience trying to do this and it works with one caveat. The foam dries out in really hot environments and it may become problematic in the future. In order to work properly the popular wisdom is that it has to connect to metal on its backside but it can actually be put in a small thin plastic bag thats taped shut and then taped against the metal backing so that it wont deteriorate and cause shorting. This causes a significant improvement with LNAs input and output isolation. Also use ferrite beads on leads when its possible.

We didn't go with a metal enclosure because it was found to worsen port to port isolation.

This can often be greatly helped by adhering a layer of carbon-impregnated anti-static foam to the inside of the case in strategic locations. The foam needs to be the black kind that DIP ICs and such used to come in. You should be able to measure some level of conductivity of the foam with an ohmmeter for it to work well.

John

I also keep a bag of the larger picces of broken ferrites which I sometimes find useful. A couple of times its turned out to help with something, and is just what is needed.

Flat pieces are useful just as they are and C-shaped pieces - one half of a split bead, also may sometimes be very useful.

[JohnG]

Yes, one probably doesn't want conductive carbon-coated particles on their PCB. Works pretty well for a quick and dirty lab setup, though.

I do recall taking apart an satellite dish LNA not too long ago. It had similar foam pads all over the place, above transmission lines, couplers, mixers, etc. They seemed to be a little more robust, and maybe the foam felt like it was silicone based. No dust whatsoever inside the LNA. So, this sort of foam should be available without the problems of the carbon-coated foam, but I have never looked for it.

John

[rf-loop]

My NanoVNA V2 clone is in "metal box hybrid" with 3.2".
All sides sides, including ports are metal.  Switches are not between ports. Top and bottom of case is more or less plated PCB.

Directivity. I have seen truckload of HP, Agilent RF things including of course also differerent VNA's
Partially bit    but why they do not talk how metal case have some adverse effects...  they are metal and they are heavy and specially older ones all are deep inside aluminium casting.  They do not also tell that metal case destroy some values...  Of course they are expensive but what is real Root reason why peoples tell that metal case is bad. I like to hear Real reason. Where is this secret thing and why.  Is it perhaps so that there circuits are designed for "open air". Why they are dot designed so that metal case make it better instead of it give some negative effect.


I do not have seen any directly comparative images so I need ask how peoples who know more deeply this NanoVNA V2  think about this. Is this normal, more bad than normal or part of bit better group.  I am bit amazed overall how good this is related to price.
This question with image is also because I am really far from my homeland and I can not use my all tools so I really can not at this time make many kind of real tests with trusted data. 

Attached image.
First done SOL Cal (CH0)
After then run sweep from 1MHz to 3GHz and CH0 just same  50ohm load used in cal directly in port. (no cables)
NanoVNA firmware: 20200619
NanoVNA-Saver 0.3.6

[OwO]

S21 is a little out of spec above 2.8GHz, but that's just due to reflections by the metal enclosure.
S11 looks good.

[rf-loop]

S21 is a little out of spec above 2.8GHz, but that's just due to reflections by the metal enclosure.
S11 looks good.

Tnx.

Here perfectly same but now without metal "box" what is not just box. It is metal band round four sides. One side can open and bend bit and take out. Bottom and top are painted and clearly they are PCB and golden figures and name looks like they are just  PCB traces. But other way looks like PCB is without any conductive copper, only painted black. So true metal is only this band between these bottom and top cover.

Again SOL Cal and result is:

[OwO]

S21 is within spec now. Mind taking some pictures of the PCB top and bottom side? I'm curious what their layout looks like with the buttons and switches moved.

[rf-loop]

S21 is within spec now. Mind taking some pictures of the PCB top and bottom side? I'm curious what their layout looks like with the buttons and switches moved.

Yes 21 upper freq. noise level drops some amount without  case sides metal parts.

 I will later take it parts. I do not know how this battery is fixed (glued) inside this "sandwitch" but  when it was partially open it looks bit weird.  I want open it without damages and any signs I have opened it.  PM can not attach images. Also I do not have my camera here, only phone as "camera" but I will look some solution.

[cdev]

What happens when you terminate S21?

I often make temporary cases for my hardware out of cardboard because its easy to make and gets them out of harms way. In order to have shielding I then usually use either copper tape or sometimes I will use what you describe, a copper "O" a flat strip joined with solder with holes cut to give SMAs good ground points.

I will then often solder a wire to the copper tape to ground it to the chassis and also ground the power at the same point the DC power is attached.


USB noise is oten hard - very hard to get rid of.

[rf-loop]

What happens when you terminate S21?

USB noise is oten hard - very hard to get rid of.

Naturally no significant change. This is not designed just like toy. Even when price is what it is.

[bicycleguy]

Now here's a case.  It's a wonder what you can do with Covid-19 spare time.


Angled so you can see it.
Holds SOLT, attenuators and adapters in a drawer.
Holds a standard 18650 Li cell.
Lots of air holes for cooling.

[cdev]

Beautiful, I have some very nice recycled brown stiff cardboard I think is going to go into my case. What did you make the drawer out of?

[bicycleguy]

The whole works is 3D printed PLA fiber with faux wood, white and black text.  The top took about 3 hours and the base about 4.  The drawer took about  8 hours because I wanted to test modifications I had made to my multi-color Prusa printer.  The brown on the front caused the printer to switch colors every layer (182 layers).  If I had left it white it would have been about 3 hours even with the black text, because that text is only on 4 layers.

[rf-loop]

What happens when you terminate S21?

I often make temporary cases for my hardware out of cardboard because its easy to make and gets them out of harms way. In order to have shielding I then usually use either copper tape or sometimes I will use what you describe, a copper "O" a flat strip joined with solder with holes cut to give SMAs good ground points.

I will then often solder a wire to the copper tape to ground it to the chassis and also ground the power at the same point the DC power is attached.


USB noise is oten hard - very hard to get rid of.

My previous answer was from memory.
Now after full teardown it is again back working and I can answer with real data if can think image as data.

Sweep 1 - 3000 MHz.
As  previously also used, segments 10.
S11 Calibration.

First image
S11 50 ohm  load, same as in Cal.
S21 just SMA fully Open (nothing in SMA) .

Second image
S11 50 ohm  load, same as used in Cal.
S21 just Short, same as used in Cal.

I do not explain result, images talk.





S11 50 ohm Load, S21 Open






S11 50 ohm Load, S21 SHORT

[OwO]

Looks good; if you want to fix the enclosure reflection issue there are RF absorbing ferrite sheets like these:


The 3.2 inch clone is just one of the many clone manufacturers that played it fair, and I don't mind recommending it if you want a NanoV2 with a metal enclosure.

[rf-loop]

Looks good; if you want to fix the enclosure reflection issue there are RF absorbing ferrite sheets like these:
(Attachment Link)

The 3.2 inch clone is just one of the many clone manufacturers that played it fair, and I don't mind recommending it if you want a NanoV2 with a metal enclosure.

  OMG this was good ! Not only for Nano but... I have totally forget to try find some this kind of things even more importantly to my some other things... I have direct places for these products after I return my homeland.  (not only just in image but they have also other things..)

But for NanoVNA it need experience what exact product and how is best to try -- of course without experience it can find using  long iteration... but it is not nice to teardown for several iteration if there is allready some experience..
Even some advisory so that do not start from empty board. What material exactly, they have many, and where exactly add in Nano. There is several thickness and different materials.

[OwO]

From experience the thicker the better (up to 0.5mm at least). The best positions for the absorbing material are hard to predict, but you can always just put it on all walls of the enclosure.

[rf-loop]

From experience the thicker the better (up to 0.5mm at least). The best positions for the absorbing material are hard to predict, but you can always just put it on all walls of the enclosure.

If I understand right there is different permeabilities,  types "50", "80" and  "TE" but difficult to understand (language) all what they tell.

[OwO]

The higher permeability versions have more ferrite "dust" mixed in; there is a small improvement in isolation last time I tried.

[cdev]

You can use layers of anti-static foam. The lowest resistance/most conductive should be the closest to the conductive surface beneath it and them as you go out from there each layer should be less conductive more resistant. You can use anti-static foam. How well does it work? Ive tried it but have never been able to test it beyond just subjectively. But it does seem to help. 

The following is just for fun/as an experiment.. I'm not suggesting you do this for any commercial product.

You might also be able to make RF absorbent material using a two part foam, activated charcoal (and possibly iron or ferrite powder, but I would suggest not using that, even if it improves its RF qualities- see below) .

But if you do try to do this, plan out the workflow really well and to the second because its hard to mix quickly and hardens to a very tough consistently almost immediately. Whatever clothes you are wearing if it gets on them it will be in these forever. It will be very very hard to get off of anything it splashes on.

Also,I suspect iron powder is likely dangerous inhaling it is likely very bad for you.  So i would just use activated charcoal (which I got from used up water filters (Brita) which have a lot of it in them).  You need a lot to get a resistance low enough to measure. Which makes the  pinkish black "foam" I ended up with as hard as a rock. Its very hard to mix it before it hardens. It hardened so quickly I think for me because the activated charcoal I used was wet. (Dry used up activated charcoal might harden much more slowly)

Anyway, for what its worth, thats how I tried to do it.

Looks good; if you want to fix the enclosure reflection issue there are RF absorbing ferrite sheets like these:
(Attachment Link)

The 3.2 inch clone is just one of the many clone manufacturers that played it fair, and I don't mind recommending it if you want a NanoV2 with a metal enclosure.

  OMG this was good ! Not only for Nano but... I have totally forget to try find some this kind of things even more importantly to my some other things... I have direct places for these products after I return my homeland.  (not only just in image but they have also other things..)

But for NanoVNA it need experience what exact product and how is best to try -- of course without experience it can find using  long iteration... but it is not nice to teardown for several iteration if there is allready some experience..
Even some advisory so that do not start from empty board. What material exactly, they have many, and where exactly add in Nano. There is several thickness and different materials.

[asmi]

I would really like that device with larger and higher-resolution screen, because normally I look at them from some distance (to have enough space for DUT directly in front of me). I wonder if it's possible to re-design the display part to utilize something like 7" RGB24 screen (perhaps via something like EVE controller - FT813 or BT815). Or use beefier main MCU which supports parallel RGB LCD panels directly.

[AlfBaz]

My 4" displays finally arrived.

I've created a rough model of both the nanovna and lcd boards to begin design of a 3d print enclosure for the whole lot.

Due to the large overhang created by the LCD display the case would have to be a weird small bottom large top enclosure so as to have the sma ports, jog buttons, on/off switch and USB port protrude from the walls of the enclosure

I can accommodate for the jog buttons, SMA ports and and on/off switch by placing the nanovna board in the bottom left corner of the enclosure and then using a ribbon to connect the LCD display but we're still left with a problem accessing the USB port

Maybe a design similar to bicycleguy's with the nanovna board flat and the LCD display tilted will do the trick

[Gandalf_Sr]

I've done a design for a case (the bottom half anyway) that deals with the issues you describe but I have been unsuccessful in making an array of holes for cooling purposes.  I may print a prototype just to prove the dimensions - give me a few more days.

[aargee]

I have just printed ch_scr's enclosure from the beginning of this thread using https://www.proto-pasta.com/pages/magnetic-iron-pla, not sure how/if it will improve performance - I was just interested to print one in this material. I bought the reel off EBay that was surplus to someone's requirements a while back.

Interestingly... https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/3d-printing-proto-pasta-create-magnetic-donut-transformers-117936/

Here is the result. The last photo is the enclosure being picked up be a HDD magnet.

[AlfBaz]

... I have been unsuccessful in making an array of holes for cooling purposes.

I wasn't aware the unit got hot enough to warrant ventilation. I'll have to make some measurements

[AlfBaz]

I've done a design for a case (the bottom half anyway) that deals with the issues you describe ... give me a few more days.

Looking forward to it

aargee, is that enclosure for 2 batteries?

[cdev]

The magnetic PLA may not have desired RF properties and may not even be that compatible with electronics, if they were I would expect their web page would be crowing its benefits for use in cases of RF devices.

Powdered iron may in fact be at best a major irritant and at worst dangerous.

Note that I really know next to nothing about this stuff and could easily be wrong, this is just my gut feeling from spending around two minutes reading the web page at https://www.proto-pasta.com/pages/magnetic-iron-pla

-----

[bicycleguy]

.....
Maybe a design similar to bicycleguy's with the nanovna board flat and the LCD display tilted will do the trick

I was going to go that route but got caught up with a neat drawer.  As you noted, the USB connector is too deep even with the 3.2 inch display and the display and RF boards have a mismatch at the SMA connector.  In my design the angle of display (50°) and its height are dictated by the bend of the RF cables.  Straight cables and a 60° angle would have been nicer.

Separating the boards would have required wiring some headers.  As long as they are separated why not a flip up display since the wiring would have allowed it.  I stopped when realizing this was becoming a time-nut like obsession

You can't see it in the pictures but I have a ton of air circulating holes.  I had noticed the board got very hot sitting horizontal on my desk but it never caused any issues.  The angle of the board does help the cooling.

[aargee]

The magnetic PLA may not have desired RF properties and may not even be that compatible with electronics, if they were I would expect their web page would be crowing its benefits for use in cases of RF devices.

Powdered iron may in fact be at best a major irritant and at worst dangerous.

Note that I really know next to nothing about this stuff and could easily be wrong, this is just my gut feeling from spending around two minutes reading the web page at https://www.proto-pasta.com/pages/magnetic-iron-pla

-----

Probably the same risk as having a case of ferrite material. The iron is bonded up in the PLA filament, there is no powder floating about at all. There is no conduction across the case using probes and a multimeter. I'm not sure what you mean about 'compatible with electronics' - it seems to me the suggestions in this thread so far about using conductive foam might be more of a risk?
Then again, it would also be possible to line the case with adhesive copper tape if external noise was a concern, I too am not sure how well ferromagnetic material acts as an RF shield, I'm sure a search would bring up some reading material when I get aroiund to it :-)

I don't think the people who make this stuff ever thought of the electrical uses up front, most of the suggested applications are for 'rusted look' 3D prints, any electrical specs seem to be an after thought.

AlfBaz - that enclosure fits one 18650 battery in it.

[bicycleguy]

@aargee
Can you try a test like this: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/nanovna-v2-aka-s-a-a-2/msg3182046/#msg3182046 in and out of your case and see if you get the rise at high frequency?

[AlfBaz]

Had a busy weekend so was unable to do a test print to check sizes. That's why no stl attachment
Instead a small jerky video of the assembly for a unit with the 4" display.
I'm thinking I might add a draw or some pockets on the opposite side of the battery for the SOLT cal pieces

I had to go a little bigger to allow for an 16850 battery holder since locally its hard to source these batteries with wires already attached and I dont want to mess around soldering stuff when ever I have to change the battery

PS
the file is zipped so that the forum software lets it upload

[AlfBaz]

pps
forgot to mention the lcd is meant to be attached with ribbon

[Gandalf_Sr]

Looks good Alf, better than my half-assed one.

[AlfBaz]

Thanks

[cdev]

How could we visualize the interaction's causes better? Make fixing it more of a realtime interaction (faster)

@aargee
Can you try a test like this: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/nanovna-v2-aka-s-a-a-2/msg3182046/#msg3182046 in and out of your case and see if you get the rise at high frequency?

[cdev]

Having a pop up screen that would remain at an approximately 45 degree angle while being used
would be extremely helpful for my use case which is usually on my desk behind my computer keyboard.


 

pps
forgot to mention the lcd is meant to be attached with ribbon

[Gandalf_Sr]

I haven't done a test print but I did figure out how to do the vent holes.  My battery is between the 2 PCBs so it doesn't need extra space.

[AlfBaz]

I haven't done a test print but I did figure out how to do the vent holes.  My battery is between the 2 PCBs so it doesn't need extra space.

I looked back through this thread to see what battery you used, it didn't occur to me that perhaps cordless phone batteries might be usable as they come wired with connectors.

I like your approach to the case design, there's no need to modify the nvna board. The on/off switch has to be removed on mine

[TimNJ]

 @OwO

Just a general comment that the SMAs on my board are quite crooked...I checked the NanoRFE webpage, and lo and behold, seems like those connectors are crooked too.

Not sure the angle, but pretty obvious. Consider tightening up the holes a little bit?

[OwO]

Thanks for bringing that up, I'm just about to do another prototyping round for the 4 inch PCB and also realized many other holes are too loose too. I should add this to my DFM checklist...

[rf-loop]

NanoVNA V2 have also "zero span" mode as CW mode. Even more there is selection for stop sweep.

It can asssume in this mode it generate normal CW signal as what ever RF generator or as example common SA's tracking generator in zero span mode.

It was quite big surprice to me that Nano works in this mode more like noise transmitter than anything else. Useless.  Now I wonder why. There is quite ok TCXO reference and circuits what can generate much more clean signal than now - I believe. 
Where is this problem. Is it possible to repair just adjusting things in FW for generate more clean CW than this do now. Why there is CW mode if it is totally useless for anything but playing fun.

Here is one SA image. 
Signal is 146.5MHz out from Nano.
Mode CW and then also selected sweep stop.

Jitter, FM, residual FM, hopping, phansenoise or AM mod or what ever mess there is....

I know this is VNA. In this use it is not so problem but same HW can use also for some kind of RF generator. There is even selection for CW.

Is in any "to do" list so that may have some hope about small somehow working tiny RF generator because there is hardware already...
Kind wish to development team, please look if it can make usable with just programming without any HW mod.


Lets give picture talk...how it is now.  All understand it is now nearly useless...
Yes it can also see that TCXO is far off but somehow acceptable stable in this class. "SA" used here is based to better reference and it is least inside 0.1ppm.

[edigi]

Jitter, FM, residual FM, hopping, phansenoise or AM mod or what ever mess there is....

I you check it with DSO (that can handle reasonable high frequency and has big enough memory) it'll become pretty clear that it's not a continuous signal (which I'd also prefer) but more like when it's sweeping so a bit of signal then silence for PLL to lock to the next frequency (which is just the same here) and so on (I've checked it a long time ago but if my memory serves me correct, stepping is something like 5ms).
While I did not check the code, I suspect that the same loop is used to sweep.
It's OK for VNA functionality but for CW it would be indeed better to emit real CW signal like the original Nano (even though it may eat a bit more battery etc.)

[rf-loop]

Jitter, FM, residual FM, hopping, phansenoise or AM mod or what ever mess there is....

I you check it with DSO (that can handle reasonable high frequency and has big enough memory) it'll become pretty clear that it's not a continuous signal (which I'd also prefer) but more like when it's sweeping so a bit of signal then silence for PLL to lock to the next frequency (which is just the same here) and so on (I've checked it a long time ago but if my memory serves me correct, stepping is something like 5ms).
While I did not check the code, I suspect that the same loop is used to sweep.
It's OK for VNA functionality but for CW it would be indeed better to emit real CW signal like the original Nano (even though it may eat a bit more battery etc.)

Yep.
As I write no prob in VNA mode but in CW mode this is totally bad. CW is Continuous Wave.
And when it pulse after then it is modulated. Now with this modulation there is also quite high phase noise and perhaps we can see some residual FM after this pulsing is stopped but then we can talk is it ok... yes perhaps due ti its nature as it is, mainly tiny cheap VNA what is better than its price.

[switchabl]

Yes, this has come up a few times, I think. Here is what the ouput power looks like in the time domain (@1GHz). The stimulus is turned off every ~5ms. I believe the device regularly performs some kind of self-calibration to deal with drift. The intervals are not quite regular either (likely depends on what other tasks it has to perform), so the spectrum will look rather wild.

I don't think "CW mode" is intended for use as a signal generator. It is simply a zero span mode for the VNA (this is called "CW time" on Agilent VNAs as well). I agree that the name is somewhat misleading.

Adding a proper CW output in the firmware should not be particularly hard. It would still be of somewhat limited use, since it is unlevelled and there is no filtering. This is probably why no one has bothered so far. It is open-source after all.

[rf-loop]

I don't think "CW mode" is intended for use as a signal generator. It is simply a zero span mode for the VNA (this is called "CW time" on Agilent VNAs as well). I agree that the name is somewhat misleading.

Adding a proper CW output in the firmware should not be particularly hard. It would still be of somewhat limited use, since it is unlevelled and there is no filtering. This is probably why no one has bothered so far. It is open-source after all.

Yes. But there is more than just one zero span mode. For what all these need use this pulse mode for measurement.  Least one can be just plain Continuous Wave. I have in my homelan workshop "trucload" of RF generators. But I think peoples who have this Nano, what is cheap, pocket size handy tiny tool. Even if its RF CW output is not good quality and without level adjustment and not even known level and or it is far away from  flat, not even close, from low to high freq.
Still I think it is not at all bad feature for many peoples if it have just this RF quality but without this "pulse modulation" what just make it totally useless if try use it as some kind RF generator. And because all is ready in HW for it. 
In menu there can select start, stop, center, span,  cw freq, and pause sweep. Is it enough that one setup can result CW without pulsing.
No matter if Nano do not "listen and measure" anything in this CW output mode (CW and Pause selected example). Now in CW+Pause it still is pulsing and this is what I wonder. Without pause, it also measure in CW mode so perhaps it need pulse as it also do when sweep (stepping sweep).
 
Of course if known level and need adjust level, nano do not this, but for many hobbyists there is available many cheaper and more cheap low grade attenuators and some day he or shee may check different frequencies true level and after then he can use it knowing something more about level. For things what need medium or high quality RF generator, this is not.
Also its RF out is quite "dirty" but still better than no gen for some hobby purposes and in machine what can take in pocket to everywhere.

I am not ranting about this and that like I am if this is true commercial business model product, but it is not, this is just open source as you told.

It was wish that if developing team see it is easy to do change it is perhaps good to do. Even with all cons what it have as rf generator. Just like, better than nothing for perhaps many peoples. Least it do not shoot not down this NanoVNA value if there is this "CW only out" mode.
It also mean that in this mode it do not measure anything like it do now. In CW mode now,  it do measurements also of course.
But then there is Pause Sweep selection. Now it do not update any displayed measurements in CW mode but still it continue Pulsing. For what.
In this state it can, imho,  send just Continuous wave out. Least I somehow think that when it do not need measure anything in CW mode then pulse modulation can also stop if reason for pulsing is measuring.
 
Perhaps example OwO can answer what is real reason for pulsing in state/mode when it do not any measurements.
Or is it just..."no one care" reason.

[cdev]

I don't think "CW mode" is intended for use as a signal generator. It is simply a zero span mode for the VNA (this is called "CW time" on Agilent VNAs as well). I agree that the name is somewhat misleading.

Adding a proper CW output in the firmware should not be particularly hard. It would still be of somewhat limited use, since it is unlevelled and there is no filtering. This is probably why no one has bothered so far. It is open-source after all.

Yes. But there is more than just one zero span mode. For what all these need use this pulse mode for measurement.  Least one can be just plain Continuous Wave. I have in my homelan workshop "trucload" of RF generators. But I think peoples who have this Nano, what is cheap, pocket size handy tiny tool. Even if its RF CW output is not good quality and without level adjustment and not even known level and or it is far away from  flat, not even close, from low to high freq. Still I think it is not at all bad feature for many peoples if it have just this RF quality but without this "pulse modulation" what just make it totally useless if try use it as some kind RF generator. And because all is ready in HW for it. 
In menu there can select start, stop, center, span,  cw freq, and pause sweep. Is it enough that one setup can result CW without pulsing. No matter if Nano do not "listen and measure" anything in this CW output mode.  Of course if need adjust level, nano do not this, but for many hobbyists there is available many cheaper and more cheap low grade attenuators and some day he or shee may check different frequencies true level and after then he can use it knowing something more about level. For things what need medium or high quality RF generator, this is not.

I am not ranting about this and that like I am if this is true commercial business model product, but it is not, this is just open source as you told.

It was wish that if developing team see it is easy to do change it is perhaps good to do. Even with all cons what it have as rf generator. Just like, better than nothing for perhaps many peoples. Least it do not shoot not down this NanoVNA value if there is this "CW only out" mode.
It also mean that in this mode it do not measure anything like it do now. In CW mode now it do measurements also. But then there is Pause Sweep selection. Now it do not update any displayed measurements in CW mode but still it continue Pulsing. For what. In this state it can send just Continuous wave out.  Least I somehow think that when it do not need measure anything in CW mode then pulse modulation can also stop.
 
Perhaps example OwO can answer what is real reason for pulsing in state/mode when it do not any measurements.
Or is it just..."no one care" reason.

It would be worth it to code an interface to allow scripting of the signal generator. ,I have some very small 3.3 volt omron RF relays I would like to use them to be anle to do a RF switchbox so I could script and speed up testing and workflow.

[OwO]

The pulsing isn't because of internal calibration, it's because the reference channel is measured by shorting port 1 to ground. The two synthesizers do not have known phase relationship (ADF4350 phase resync is not usable for the full frequency range) so the reference measurement is required. It is possible in CW mode to only measure reference once, but then you will have a lot of drift and anything that causes a ADC buffer overrun (like writing to flash) will cause it to lose sync and phase will become random.

[rf-loop]

The pulsing isn't because of internal calibration, it's because the reference channel is measured by shorting port 1 to ground. The two synthesizers do not have known phase relationship (ADF4350 phase resync is not usable for the full frequency range) so the reference measurement is required. It is possible in CW mode to only measure reference once, but then you will have a lot of drift and anything that causes a ADC buffer overrun (like writing to flash) will cause it to lose sync and phase will become random.

Afaik, in normal "CW" aka pulse modulated CW it still do normal S11/21 measurements. It pulses and measure continuously, example if I connect load or what ever it give measured results.

I mean now, outside of this functionality, just different "CW blind output" mode what do not measure anything but push raw RF out, if something drift or not just "so what".
 
It is now same pulsed output if I select start and stop same, if I select center and zero span or if I select just CW. All same. But even more, if I select Pause Sweep independent of  selected Span or just CW it also generate pulsed output.

Example it can do so that normal CW out as now can be just as now including it do measurements. But if CW is selected and then user select sweep pause. It do not anymore measure anything or least it do not display anymore new results. In this mode when CW selected and PauseSweep selected  Now it can just blind push selected RF frequency out without anything else. If there is some drift or not, just out with blind eyes and ears. Then this generator output drift like it drift, more or less and it is as it is, take it for use or not.
I believe still this feature add some small value to Nano, it hardly reduces the value.

[switchabl]

I have patched the firmware so the measurement is turned off when the sweep is paused. I am not too interested in the S-A-A2 as a signal generator, but I want to some more detailed performance characterizations and for that purpose it can be useful to have a CW output.

https://github.com/switchabl/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/tree/cw

From a quick test it seems to work fine, but it is probably not ready to be included in the mainline firmware. There are other events (like changing display settings) that unpause the sweep and in that case the ECAL switch may be left in an unexpected position and throw off the next measurement. Also this is based on the current master, so may contain other unexpected bugs (and features). Still, if you feel adventurous, feel free to try the binary (https://github.com/switchabl/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/releases/tag/cw-test1, usual disclaimers apply).

I am not entirely convinced that this is the right way to go about it. I think the least surprising behaviour would be to turn the stimulus off entirely when the sweep is paused. If desired, there could be a separate mode (or at least menu) for use as a generator. But on the other hand that would be a lot more work.

[ch_scr]

Now here's a case.  It's a wonder what you can do with Covid-19 spare time.


Angled so you can see it.
Holds SOLT, attenuators and adapters in a drawer.
Holds a standard 18650 Li cell.
Lots of air holes for cooling.

Your drawer has bugged me for a while, but I wanted it optional and tiny. Today was the day!


The black PLA seems to get only warm, not full on hot on the bottom so I opted out of cooling holes.
This will not fit the case I posted earlier, so I have not included an stl for now.

[switchabl]

I have patched the firmware so the measurement is turned off when the sweep is paused. I am not too interested in the S-A-A2 as a signal generator, but I want to some more detailed performance characterizations and for that purpose it can be useful to have a CW output.

https://github.com/switchabl/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/tree/cw

Somewhat more polished version, where you can change the frequency without having to pause again afterwards:
https://github.com/switchabl/NanoVNA-V2-firmware/releases/tag/cw-test3

I think it shouldn't break anything else (sweep pause is now separate from UI refresh). So if there is interest in having it in the official firmware, I can make a pull request.

[DiSlord]

I would really like that device with larger and higher-resolution screen, because normally I look at them from some distance (to have enough space for DUT directly in front of me). I wonder if it's possible to re-design the display part to utilize something like 7" RGB24 screen (perhaps via something like EVE controller - FT813 or BT815). Or use beefier main MCU which supports parallel RGB LCD panels directly.

I test 7`display for H4, and it show good perfomance on only SPI bus (on display test i use 401 point measure) (yes if use 8bit or 16bit parallel connection can more faster), but 8bit color mode + hardware bitblt and fill allow get good speed.



After all optimization (on video my first run after add touch, after i increase update speed ~2-3x), at this moment update speed ~as on old firmware H4 (full screen update need only ~90ms)
Code can ported to V2 (it use some codebase for display as H or H4)

Additional possible add 5x4 keyboard (20 keys)
Capacitive touch allow use finger for control
Backlight control

Minus is only cost for display module ~40$

[Mechatrommer]

to avoid hijacking the other thread, i just post this here...

That's the one I bought; look back at my posts to see how I changed it to 4" display.
I have to say that the original 3.2"? LCD was close to unreadable for my old eyes, the 4" display I fitted is really good and I have no problems using it now.  I haven't got around to printing my 3D case for it yet though

thanks for the tip. requoted here for future reference... i'm thinking if 3d printing cant do what i want, maybe cutted wood/acrylic/plastic/metal can may do the job as well for the enclosure / test rig... i'll try to do whats best for my "way", not necessarily need 3d printed enclosure.

So I got round to upgrading the firmware to the version that handles the 4 inch display.  For those who haven't done it before:
1. Get the new .bin file ready.
2. Plug in your NanoVNA and check which port it comes up on.
3. Turn the NanoVNA on and put it into DFU mode via touch menus.
4. Plug into USB port.
5. Run up NanaVNA_QT
6. Select the port under device
7. You should now see a pop up window that says found device in DFU mode, do you want to upgrade firmware (or something close to that)
8. Click [Yes], browse to .bin file, and click [OK]
9. When it's finished unplug and power off NanoVNA
10. Fit new display and power on, it should work.

I recalibrated my touch screen after the upgrade but it was close anyway so the menus worked.  I removed (carefully) an SD card reader that was fitted to my display as it interferes with the fit.  I must say that the larger display and font has made this very usable for me, much easier to read now.

I found this one on Amazon https://www.amazon.com/480x320-Display-Module-ST7796S-Driver/dp/B08C5FFX9P/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=480x320+ST7796S&qid=1596014221&s=electronics&sr=1-2
[EDIT] I also just found this one on AliExpress, please check but I think it's the right one. 

The git version has 4 inch display support but there is no binary released yet; I'll go do a release right now. https://github.com/nanovna/NanoVNA-V2-firmware
The battery is any li-ion battery (3.6V and 3.7V cells are the same thing, they are all 3.0 - 4.2V). The dimensions should be 6*40*60 mm to fit in the device, usually labeled as "604060", or use that enclosure that supports a 18650 cell (I would go this route because 18650s are generally safer).

edit: i just noticed someone upgraded it with 7" LCD. i got one here for rasp pi orange one, not sure if its compatible, will check deeper when my unit arrived..

[OwO]

can existing version be made faster sweep too? is it simply updating FW,  or there using new IC?

There are both circuit and firmware changes, I will post more info some time after it's released, or DM me.

[OwO]

Pictures of the V2 plus4 in metal enclosure, with 3200mAh battery inside

After calibration the dynamic range still reaches 70dB to 3GHz, so plus4 will come with a metal enclosure.

[joeqsmith]

I still haven't pulled the trigger on the V2 but you keep enticing me.

Will this one support the faster sweep times you mention?  How fast on the screen, and how fast across the USB port?   Was there a hardware change to support the faster sweeps, or will this firmware run in the original V2, allowing for the same faster sweep rates?

Whats the number of samples per sweep?

Will it support more complex SOLT?  At 3GHz, I'm surprised it wouldn't have something better than the Nano.  OF course, this leads to the question, what's the progress on the 6GHz unit?   

[OwO]

Yes this one is 400 points/s (compared to 100 points/s for V2_2), same speed on-screen and over USB. I will post a comparison video later. There are substantial hardware changes to support the higher sweep rate, and a new directional coupler with high native directivity (>18dB for the coupler itself, ~17dB in circuit with SMA connectors, 50kHz to 4GHz).

Number of sweep points is adjustable up to 201 points on-screen and unlimited over USB (compared to 1024 points in V2_2 and V2 plus). More advanced calibration may be added to the firmware later. 6GHz VNA is developed by a different person and I'm not sure what the timeline is.

[Miti]

Pictures of the V2 plus4 in metal enclosure, with 3200mAh battery inside

After calibration the dynamic range still reaches 70dB to 3GHz, so plus4 will come with a metal enclosure.

Where and when will this be available? Price? I'm sorry if this is discussed somewhere in the thread, TLDR.

[OwO]

Probably 2 more weeks, I think the PCBs are already finished and they are waiting on PCBA. I don't control the pricing but it'll be set based on cost, so plus4 won't be as cheap as the V2, but I do know V2 plus costs the same as the V2 so it will be priced the same.

[thinkfat]

I'm starting to loose track of the different models now.

V2 plus4 is the upgrade with better dynamic range and faster sweep with more points and 4" screen?
V2 plus is - what?

EDIT: going back through the thread, "V2 plus" seems to also have lower noise and faster sweep, but not more points and small screen. Can you perhaps provide some differentiation between the models? Since both seem to improve in similar areas, but there's no numbers on the improvement the V2 plus brings over the original V2 and how it compares against the V2 plus4.

[cdev]

Pictures of the V2 plus4 in metal enclosure, with 3200mAh battery inside

After calibration the dynamic range still reaches 70dB to 3GHz, so plus4 will come with a metal enclosure.

Looks gorgeous!

What is the new hole to the left of the three buttons, also am I corrent in that you now are using a full size USB connector?

[OwO]

I'm starting to loose track of the different models now.

V2 plus4 is the upgrade with better dynamic range and faster sweep with more points and 4" screen?
V2 plus is - what?

V2 plus - 2x sweep speed and slightly lower noise, this version replaces the V2_2 which will no longer be manufactured (but will continue to receive firmware updates).

V2 plus4 - 4 inch display, 4x sweep speed, 70dB dynamic range to 3GHz, frequency range extended to 4GHz, and metal enclosure. This is the only hardware version that can be put into a metal enclosure without messing up dynamic range because signal isolation is much improved.

[Kosmic]

woo I'm clearly not following, I thought the V2_2 was the latest and greatest. Ordered one yesterday 

[Miti]

I’m looking forward to the release of V2 plus4. Will you let us know when it’s available?

[Mechatrommer]

woo I'm clearly not following, I thought the V2_2 was the latest and greatest. Ordered one yesterday 

yup announcement today, i bought few days ago i'll see what i can upgrade...

[OwO]

V2_2 is the newest hardware revision right now, all the "plus" versions will take at least several more weeks. I can provide info about how to convert V2_2 to plus if you DM me, although conversion to plus4 isn't possible because the circuit design has been reworked.

[VK3DRB]

OwO, please let us know when the V2 plus4 it is released, but I am happy to wait longer before buying from Tindie to ensure all testing has been completed so there are hardware no bugs or weaknesses. Also, thanks heaps for being an excellent contributor to the VNA discussions.

I have access to a MegiQ VNA0460E periodically. I intend to do a comparison test into the same loads.

[cdev]

I have to say, I have had more "fun" and probably spent more time using my NanoVNA 2.2 than any of my other electronic instruments except my main DMM (UT-61e) and perhaps scope. (old Tek 2211) Because the scope is so bulky, probably more than that too.

I still dont have it working 100% properly when connecting up to my computer on Linux, it appears to be a permissions problem, as I can only run it as root, which is a PITA. I'm on Debian 10. I should see if I can run it on my RaspberryPi. Is anybody else having this problem? I shouldnt have to write a udev rule, should I? I have tried a lot of different udev incantations but have not gotten it right.

When not running under sudo the software starts but doesn't see the device, even though its connected, when lauched via sudo it works fine.

[ch_scr]

Make sure your user is in the dialout group "sudo adduser your_username dialout"
You need to log out and back in for it to take effect.

[cdev]

Yes, I am a member of dialout and that hasn't fixed it!

Usually this situation requires creation of a udev rule, and Ive tried to come up with the right rule, failed, and then deleted udev rules so that I could implement the right solution. Still have not found it.

Nor have I found the log that gives me the info I need either. Should revisit it now that I know more about the NanoVNA2's normal operation. I prefer using it tethered when I can, as then I can take screenshots, etc.

[Miti]

Hey OwO,

Any news?

[gizmo5418]

Hi,

...Usually this situation requires creation of a udev rule, and Ive tried to come up with the right rule, failed, ...

You need to create a udev rule with content:

Code: [Select]

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idProduct}=="0008", ATTRS{idVendor}=="04b4", MODE="0666"Put this content in a file named e.g. 99-nanovna-v2.rules in the path /etc/udev/rules.d/
Then you have to reload the udev rules:

Code: [Select]

sudo udevadm control --reload-rules
sudo udevadm triggeror restart your computer.
Now you can communicate with nanovna from the normal user level.

Regards, Pawel
Sorry for my English. I am using google translator.....

[cdev]

Your English is fine.

But there is something wrong with my computer's cofiguration that I need to fix to get this working. I probably need to approach this more methodically.

NanoVNA saver works without the fix, so I know it can work, however NanoVNA saver crashes on my machine and the Chinese software works and is stable, just requires to be run using sudo or it launches part way, but doesnt see the VNA. So parts of the interface dont respond.

It fails to handshake with the vNA.

Hi,

...Usually this situation requires creation of a udev rule, and Ive tried to come up with the right rule, failed, ...

You need to create a udev rule with content:

Code: [Select]

SUBSYSTEM=="usb", ATTR{idProduct}=="0008", ATTRS{idVendor}=="04b4", MODE="0666"Put this content in a file named e.g. 99-nanovna-v2.rules in the path /etc/udev/rules.d/
Then you have to reload the udev rules:

Code: [Select]

sudo udevadm control --reload-rules
sudo udevadm triggeror restart your computer.
Now you can communicate with nanovna from the normal user level.

Regards, Pawel
Sorry for my English. I am using google translator.....

[switchabl]

Apologies if this is obvious, but have you looked at the actual group/permissions assigned?

Code: [Select]

ls -l /dev/ttyACM*
Anyway, if I understand correctly that NanoVNA saver can connect successfully without root, so this doesn't point to a permissions problem (unless it is something more subtle involving AppArmor).

It might also be worth checking if something else tries to connect to the device and messes things up, e.g. ModemManager likes to talk to anything that looks like a serial port.
So maybe try to disable it before plugging the NanoVNA in and see if that changes anything

Code: [Select]

sudo systemctl stop ModemManager
More generally, check immediately after plugging it in if anything is trying to use it

Code: [Select]

lsof /dev/ttyACM*


[Mechatrommer]

i received my nanovna v2+ from HCXQS group (tindie) today. i ordered with solt and cables option, but they sent the whitish plastic enclosure as well thumbs up. for the solt, load is comparable or similar performance to my Kirby's load to 7GHz, the open and short standards are significantly different though. for the cable, its good all the way to 7GHz, much better than the used 12" Huber Suhner cables that i bought for about the same price as this nanovna set. so what i basically got is $70+ incl shipping of 2x 12" 7GHz cables with FREE SOLT and a working new NanoVNA unit ... i havent test the nanovna itself yet, having trouble to understand how it works, which button to start sweep or cal etc. and which one is port1 and port2. need to read manual first. fwiw...

[joeqsmith]

It would be great if you could run an isolation test on it and post the data in the other thread (just to keep it in one place).   I would also be interested in seeing any other comparisons you come up with. 

[Noy]

Will there be a cheaper NanoVNA V2+4 without the 4" display and with a completly closed case? Im using my V2_2 without the display as PC based device. But the +4 would be better with case, USB B and so on...

[thinkfat]

I ordered a V2 +4 from the Tindie store yesterday. I'm excited, this will be quite a step up from the V2+, in terms of usability and performance.

[Gandalf_Sr]

I too just ordered a V2 +4 from the Tindie store, I will be selling my V2 Plus that has been upgraded to a 4 inch display upgrade; if anyone is interested, PM me.

[Mechatrommer]

It would be great if you could run an isolation test on it and post the data in the other thread (just to keep it in one place).   I would also be interested in seeing any other comparisons you come up with. 

i'm still struggling to understand it.. i want log vertical scale on resistance and reactance but i still cant find where the option is.. i got used to KC901V (and i guess every other brand name VNA out there) that we can see R and X all values all in one screen nicely in log scale with 50 ohm at the center, 0 ohm at bottom and inf ohm at the top.. currently i need to keep changing the linear vertical scale if i want to see short, 50 ohm and Hi resistance. sometime traces and freq range lose control, changed setting and other weird stuffs when i play with side menu... anyone can give a hint?

I will be selling my V2 Plus that has been upgraded to a 4 inch display upgrade

i thought of upgrading to 4" display earlier, but i still can see most of the things on the bundled small screen, so i think i will not make an upgrade soon. btw, the sweep speed is comparable to my KC901V, not too slow, so i'm quite happy already with it. but sometime less resolution plot (many straight lines).

[Gandalf_Sr]

My old eyes couldn't cope with the tiny fonts on the 3.2" display, the 4" version is just fine.  I like that I'll get an extra 800 MHz with a top frequency of 4 GHz.

I also am happy to get a SOLT kit and metal case with the new one.

[Mechatrommer]

I like that I'll get an extra 800 MHz with a top frequency of 4 GHz.

(reading back this thread from start) the one with me titled V2 Plus, but OwO mentioned in reply #234 above (after i made the order) that V2 Plus is not released yet, so i'm confused now... my pcb is V2_2 same as yours but the FW is git-20200707-2a35e6e can go from 10kHz up to 4.4GHz, so i'm curious what you meant by you need extra 800MHz with a top frequency of 4 GHz? mine can go beyond that. maybe you still using old FW? upgrading FW will enable 10kHz-4.4GHz i guess (spec (old FW?) 50kHz - 3GHz).

edit: bug report... if we enable more than one marker... moving them past center will make frequency label negative (jump from 2GHz to -2GHz) and moving down in magnitude as we continue to the right (bigger frequency) until near end, they become zero and positive again, something like 50-100MHz at rightmost, where actual span is 10kHz-4.4GHz (they should show 4.4GHz). i believe this was mentioned earlier by a member here..

[Gandalf_Sr]

I like that I'll get an extra 800 MHz with a top frequency of 4 GHz.

(reading back this thread from start) the one with me titled V2 Plus, but OwO mentioned in reply #234 above (after i made the order) that V2 Plus is not released yet, so i'm confused now... my pcb is V2_2 same as yours but the FW is git-20200707-2a35e6e can go from 10kHz up to 4.4GHz, so i'm curious what you meant by you need extra 800MHz with a top frequency of 4 GHz? mine can go beyond that. maybe you still using old FW? upgrading FW will enable 10kHz-4.4GHz i guess (spec (old FW?) 50kHz - 3GHz).

edit: bug report... if we enable more than one marker... moving them past center will make frequency label negative (jump from 2GHz to -2GHz) and moving down in magnitude as we continue to the right (bigger frequency) until near end, they become zero and positive again, something like 50-100MHz at rightmost, where actual span is 10kHz-4.4GHz (they should show 4.4GHz). i believe this was mentioned earlier by a member here..

I understand that it's possible to make my V2 into a V2 Plus by changing 3 components and applying a new firmware; I might still do that but, for now, I would rather just move to the latest hardware and sell my V2 with 4 inch display to someone for $75.

[Mechatrommer]

fwiw.. i converted the online manual into pdf (attached zip) i believe this will not violate anything on OwO's side. it was quick editing for what i needed, feel free to poke me if there need corrections, if you want to edit yourself i can provide the master copy in docx (840KB zipped). i got dizzy easily reading flat screened format, no bookmarks to go back and forth etc. if needed i will print this in much more logical "paged" way and learn NanoVNA peacefully without a cpu fan running. edit: i corrected some formatting and added pages' number (here is version E2)

[Electro Fan]

Is this the latest version of the product, or is there something newer/better?



What's the chance this might become available on Amazon?

Thx

[Electro Fan]

thats the clone, performance not guaranteed by OwO. you can join here if you want... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/4-inch-display-saa-2n-nanovna-v2-3ghz-with-n-type/?topicscreen

Thanks

What are the ear markings of the clone vs. the OwO product?  (How can you tell the difference?)

Any idea if/when the OwO product might be for sale on Amazon?

Thx again

[Mechatrommer]

if you read this and the other thread, you'll know the original V2 version by OwO only sold in Tindie only, thats the problem...

[Mechatrommer]

trap for young player. we need to calibrate completely all SOLT and save to make S21 plot works, we cant just calibrate the T alone, otherwise S21 plot will go wacky... this is not the case with my KC901V. attached is S21 noise floor (uncalibrated and calibrated).. so comparing the 2N unit (Hugen) from another member in the other thread side by side with my unit (OwO)...

uncalibrated..



calibrated...

[Electro Fan]

If I started reading all the threads here again, along with all the other articles I can find along with watching all the youtubes I can find, it will be at least my third attempt at getting up to speed on the history and current status of the various related products.  It's cool to see that 1) the bandwidth is going higher, 2) the display is getting larger, 3) the price continues to be affordable (actually a great deal for what it does), 4) the software seems to be steadily getting better, etc etc etc.  But it is a lot of reading and watching to continually sort through it all (not so much the technology, but the commercialization politics).  In any event, if it was available on Amazon I think more people would probably quit reading and just buy one knowing that it's an easy return if it isn't what they were thinking/hoping it might be.  To be square, I return maybe 2% of stuff I buy on Amazon (about 1.5% Amazon or the seller messed up, and 0.5% is a self-made issue) - but one of my returns was an earlier version of a "nanoVNA" product (in one of it's variants).  I'm sold on the concept, I'd just like one that meets a threshold of usability that is hard to know until you can play with it for an hour or so.

[Electro Fan]

I've just started sorting through this for my attempt #3 and it's confusing (and potentially very time consuming) again ..... even people who seem to have read all the most recent stuff seem to have found surprises within the last week or so.

What we need is a nanoVNA "family tree" diagram that goes back to the adam and eve nanoVNAs; mostly it would be an easy to navigate tree diagram with very brief name and note boxes (kinda like name and title in an org chart, or a family tree chart with birthdays).  Once that was brought current it would just need to be updated when new fruit falls from one of the branches.  But the beauty is you could see at a glance all the model naming/nomenclature, maybe who spawned it (adam or eve, etc.), and what it's major breakthrough or flaw was/is.

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

A really good chart would have just the basics on the top layer with hyperlinks to the detailed info.  Just dreaming....

We could start with just the top layer and add the links later

[texaspyro]

This is a test message... I keep getting notifications for this thread but no new messages show up...

[aristarchus]

I've just started sorting through this for my attempt #3 and it's confusing (and potentially very time consuming) again ..... even people who seem to have read all the most recent stuff seem to have found surprises within the last week or so.

What we need is a nanoVNA "family tree" diagram that goes back to the adam and eve nanoVNAs; mostly it would be an easy to navigate tree diagram with very brief name and note boxes (kinda like name and title in an org chart, or a family tree chart with birthdays).  Once that was brought current it would just need to be updated when new fruit falls from one of the branches.  But the beauty is you could see at a glance all the model naming/nomenclature, maybe who spawned it (adam or eve, etc.), and what it's major breakthrough or flaw was/is.

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

A really good chart would have just the basics on the top layer with hyperlinks to the detailed info.  Just dreaming....

We could start with just the top layer and add the links later

It requires you to join the nanovna-users in groups.io, but it contains everything that you want to see.

https://groups.io/g/nanovna-users/wiki

[joeqsmith]

trap for young player. we need to calibrate completely all SOLT and save to make S21 plot works, we cant just calibrate the T alone, otherwise S21 plot will go wacky... this is not the case with my KC901V. attached is S21 noise floor (uncalibrated and calibrated).. so comparing the 2N unit (Hugen) from another member in the other thread side by side with my unit (OwO)...
...

I thought they were claiming 4GHz but I wasn't seeing any data beyond 3.  Is 3 the upper limit? 

[Kosmic]

trap for young player. we need to calibrate completely all SOLT and save to make S21 plot works, we cant just calibrate the T alone, otherwise S21 plot will go wacky... this is not the case with my KC901V. attached is S21 noise floor (uncalibrated and calibrated).. so comparing the 2N unit (Hugen) from another member in the other thread side by side with my unit (OwO)...
...

I thought they were claiming 4GHz but I wasn't seeing any data beyond 3.  Is 3 the upper limit?

4Ghz only on the NanoVNA V2 Plus4 that was released somewhere last week. I guess Mechatrommer has the NanoVNA V2 Plus.

[Kosmic]

More info on the different hardware versions over here:

https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-versions.html

[joeqsmith]

As impressive as the original Nano is, I suspect the +4 outside of not having being able to collect all 4 S-Paramters, missing the step attenuators and bias Ts, may be better than my first VNA in every way.   Looking forward to seeing what it can do. 

[Mechatrommer]

I thought they were claiming 4GHz but I wasn't seeing any data beyond 3.  Is 3 the upper limit? 

i was capturing 3GHz span to make easy comparison with the 2N next thread... but mine can go 4.4GHz on display (attached) just maybe a little bit out of spec.

4Ghz only on the NanoVNA V2 Plus4 that was released somewhere last week. I guess Mechatrommer has the NanoVNA V2 Plus.

i bought it as NanoVNA V2 Plus. i guess what i have is V2+ (V2_2) HW with latest FW (sept 2020) meant for V2+4? not sure... maybe mine is pilot unit for testing V2+4.

[eliocor]

I've just started sorting through this for my attempt #3 and it's confusing (and potentially very time consuming) again ..... even people who seem to have read all the most recent stuff seem to have found surprises within the last week or so.

What we need is a nanoVNA "family tree" diagram that goes back to the adam and eve nanoVNAs; mostly it would be an easy to navigate tree diagram with very brief name and note boxes (kinda like name and title in an org chart, or a family tree chart with birthdays).  Once that was brought current it would just need to be updated when new fruit falls from one of the branches.  But the beauty is you could see at a glance all the model naming/nomenclature, maybe who spawned it (adam or eve, etc.), and what it's major breakthrough or flaw was/is.

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

A really good chart would have just the basics on the top layer with hyperlinks to the detailed info.  Just dreaming....

We could start with just the top layer and add the links later

Instead of relying on others to do so, why don't read the WHOLE threads and do this "graph" by yourself?
Once studied the whole subject, if anything is not enough clear to you, you can start to make RELEVANT questions regarding the who and when so you will be able to complete the graph!
In a such way you will able to help the others (instead of whining)

[ogden]

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

Instead of relying on others to do so, why don't read the WHOLE threads and do this "graph" by yourself?

Right. Become famous - make THE CHART of Nanovna. Don't be the whining [...] who expects that somebody else shall do the job for you.

[joeqsmith]

Electro Fan,   did you check out Kosmic's link above?   Looks like it covers many of the various flavors.

[Electro Fan]

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

Instead of relying on others to do so, why don't read the WHOLE threads and do this "graph" by yourself?

Right. Become famous - make THE CHART of Nanovna. Don't be the whining [...] who expects that somebody else shall do the job for you.

I try to contribute when I think I have some answers and I ask for help when I don’t have or can’t find the answers.  In this case if the shoe doesn’t fit you, don’t wear it.  No worries.

To be square this wasn’t a request to help just me it was an idea about structuring information in a way that might help lots of people who are interested in VNAs get and stay current with developments that seem to have a history of interwoven moving parts.  I’m not JFK and we’re not going to the moon, but it was just a suggestion for anyone who might be a content expert and who enjoys organizing info. If the idea doesn’t have merit please feel free to ignore it. Sorry if it was whining.

[Electro Fan]

Electro Fan,   did you check out Kosmic's link above?   Looks like it covers many of the various flavors.

I did see that Joe, thanks.  It looks like it has concise and useful summary info.

[ogden]

To be square this wasn’t a request to help just me it was an idea about structuring information in a way that might help lots of people who are interested in VNAs get and stay current with developments that seem to have a history of interwoven moving parts.  I’m not JFK and we’re not going to the moon, but it was just a suggestion for anyone who might be a content expert and who enjoys organizing info.

Right. Why don't you do main work gathering all the info. We can help you to organize it

[joeqsmith]

Just suggestin'.... in case anyone likes making family trees or org charts

Instead of relying on others to do so, why don't read the WHOLE threads and do this "graph" by yourself?

Right. Become famous - make THE CHART of Nanovna. Don't be the whining [...] who expects that somebody else shall do the job for you.

I try to contribute when I think I have some answers and I ask for help when I don’t have or can’t find the answers.  In this case if the shoe doesn’t fit you, don’t wear it.  No worries.

To be square this wasn’t a request to help just me it was an idea about structuring information in a way that might help lots of people who are interested in VNAs get and stay current with developments that seem to have a history of interwoven moving parts.  I’m not JFK and we’re not going to the moon, but it was just a suggestion for anyone who might be a content expert and who enjoys organizing info. If the idea doesn’t have merit please feel free to ignore it. Sorry if it was whining.

I doubt you are the only one confused by all the flavors of hardware.  Guessing the firmware versions are a nightmare.  Once Radiolistener took on modifying the firmware, I basically followed them to the point they had it working well enough and called it a day.  I haven't reprogrammed it since.

For now, I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that they kept the same basic command set as the original Nano.  I haven't looked into any of it yet.   

[Mechatrommer]

MiniVNA - NanoVNA-H - NanoVNA V2 - V2.2 - V2 Plus - V2 Plus 4 there your graph.. can we get back on topic?

err oh.. SAA-V2N (Hugen) if you want to include the non-OwO model, feel free to browse aliexpress/ebay/taobao for more graph.. having worked with some budget setup and N-connector KC901V, i got a feeling the N connector on sub $100 VNA is just gimmick, its just make us harder to buy more N to SMA adapter and make things messy, how do you keep make many insertable DUT to N connector is beyond me, N connector is more expensive, bulky, less practical and seldomly found in circuit. good SMA is rated 18GHz, N only suitable for 10GHZ and more... but this can be open for debate for whoever want to up to it, no need more off topic here i think, make another thread.

the trick to make a good graph is become a PC worm, read more, dont be lazy, keep yourself up to date then you can build the graph in your mind and save your money to buy the right choice, but if keep following and replying in threads, put less time in work ie practical outcome (projects,pcb and designs) talk more work less, you can then make youtube and get many likes if you want. but... i'm not interested, better if i wait another 1 year until things settled down and buy which one bangest for buck... ymmv. i bought this V2+ just to make some comparison with my KC901V, if they both comparable, i can put V2+ into more workforce on my recent  < 2GHz stuffs. so KC901V can live a little bit longer by resting. if i still havent make the order today, comparing price $100+ V2+4 and $60+ V2+ i still think i will choose V2+ for the price, i dont need much as KC901V is there standing by if V2+ cant make the work. i will look forward to the 6+ GHz version if price is affordable maybe i can get another one if spec is better.

i just wish this V2+ FW onward can be extended to more points like 500 or 1000+ on the standalone LCD, i dont care if it scans slow, i can choose lesser points if need faster. more abilities like this means more value for money, enough mumbling, fwiw.

[Noy]

Which parts do i have to change to transform my V2_2 to V2+?

Will there be a cheaper "no display/no battery" version with a fully closed case of the +4?

[Kosmic]

4Ghz only on the NanoVNA V2 Plus4 that was released somewhere last week. I guess Mechatrommer has the NanoVNA V2 Plus.

i bought it as NanoVNA V2 Plus. i guess what i have is V2+ (V2_2) HW with latest FW (sept 2020) meant for V2+4? not sure... maybe mine is pilot unit for testing V2+4.

I think, all NanoVNA V2 goes to 4.4Ghz (upper limit of the ADF4350). But the Plus4 should do a better job between 3-4Ghz.

[Grandchuck]

The NanoVNA V2 Plus4 arrived via DHL.  The packing was marginal ... it came in a flimsy bag and in the bag was a flimsy box with a hole punched in it (see photo).  The hole was obviously made by one of the SMA connectors.

Calibration was not achieved (erratic results) with the included blue cables, so I tried some that I had on hand and that was successful.  Looking closely at the blue cables shows that the SMA center pin is recessed over 1 mm.  What is the specification for the center pin location?

[OwO]

When screwing in the SMA female-female adapter make sure to not rotate the adapter barrel, only ever rotate the male nut on the coax cable. Try a one port calibration on both of the cables, that will tell you if one cable is bad or if it's something else.

[Hydron]

Mine just arrived (11 days to London by "slow" SF Express shipping, not bad and no customs charges either!), packaged exactly the same and with a hole in the exact same spot (though only through the inner layer of cardboard, the outside wasn't breached). A little bit more packaging and the next size up of box wouldn't have hurt.

As for operation it seems to calibrate and work fine from _very_ limited testing. Screen and resistive touchscreen is less horrible than I feared (though good it's not smaller), and I like the no-nonsense case - was worth waiting for this version to drop even if it cost a fair bit more. Happy so far, now just need to find some stuff to measure/use/test it on

[joeqsmith]

Looking at the tracking, mine made it to the USA and past customs.  It looks like I chose the slow shipping as well.  I'm in the same boat and need to come up with something to test with it.   I plan to start with the DCish stuff to compare it with my original Nano.  I would like to measure some small power amplifiers but am waiting for some parts to repair a "working" ebay attenuator.   May go over the crystal filters as well.    Looking forward to seeing what OwO's team has come up with.

[Hydron]

Another note is that while I was planning on stealing a 18650 cell from a surplus pack, it seems that the vaping parts suppliers have a good range of single cells available cheaply with free shipping, so for 4 quid I've ordered what is allegedly the same cell that the HCXQS group include on DHL shipments. Will report back if it seems legit. Unit is running off USB in the meantime. I think I have some learning to do about how to use a VNA now!

[Gandalf_Sr]

Mine arrived on Thursday no holes in box - it came in a DHL bag with the box lose inside.  Because I chose the DHL shipping, I got a free 18650 battery fitted. I really like the metal case.  It didn't come with stick-on feet so I added 4 from spares I had.

I tested it a bit yesterday.  It calibrates up just fine and I compared a wide band antenna with readings on the V2 and the V2 Plus - they look identical.

[dropkick]

10 days to US West Coast via DHL. Actually 4 days from the 'it shipped' email... showed up on DHL tracking in Hong Kong that same day.
Same box/bag packaging but no problems. Seems to work well! Glad I got the 4 in.

[uski]

Do you think they are ever going to release a tabletop version ? I would really like to use it as a bench instrument..
It just needs a bigger LCD and a bigger case. Would happily pay more for this !

[Miti]

I missed it this time. I wonder when they restock them.

[hpmaxim]

I too am wondering when the V2 Plus 4 will be back in stock at Tindie.  Also, are there other versions in development or is this it for a while?

[thinkfat]

My Plus4 got finally delivered this morning. DHL caused a bit of a delay, they showed up on Friday with a tax bill, expecting me to pay the delivery driver Import VAT in cash, exact down to the cent because he didn't have any change. Well, I didn't either. So I sent him off.

Their customer support confirmed this being normal procedure! They weren't able at first to come up with a method to pay online in advance or even a possibility to see the total upfront, but after 15 minutes of me complaining how this was possible they produced a URL to an "On Demand Delivery" portal that was unknown to me, where I could actually pay the bill online with PayPal!

I subscribe to everything said about the packaging. It is absolutely inadequate. There was no cushioning or other protective material in the little cardboard box that came wrapped only in a DHL envelope bag. The inside of the box shows heavy wear marks where the SMA connectors rubbed against it. There's a 18650 cell inside. These are pretty heavy. I wonder how many of them are DOA with the battery rummaging around inside the case and damaging components.

The metal case is nice and a welcome addition. A bit of silk screen on the case, labels for  the ports and switches, a logo or other branding would have certainly helped the appearance. HCXQS are excellent developers, would be a shame for them to loose out against clones whose only differentiator is a bit of make-up.

A word on the included cal kit: The "thru" piece desperately needs a knurl! It's hardly possible to properly attach the DUT or cal kit, with only turning the nuts to avoid abrasion on the center contacts.

Despite the flimsy packaging it arrived in one piece and functional. I was able to perform SOLT calibration across the full range. S11 noise floor seems to be a about 5dB better than spec up to 4GHz. Couldn't test dynamic range yet  (lacking proper procedure).

[maple]

I missed it this time. I wonder when they restock them.

I was told that they will restock them in about 2 weeks.

[joeqsmith]

A word on the included cal kit: The "thru" piece desperately needs a knurl! It's hardly possible to properly attach the DUT or cal kit, with only turning the nuts to avoid abrasion on the center contacts.

I would expect the standards supplied with the V2P4 are better than what was supplied with my original Nano.  Mine has a flat for a 13/64 ignition wrench.  I'm not sure how else it could be torqued.

[thinkfat]

The double-female "through" piece that comes with the V2 and also V2 plus4 is completely round. Impossible to hold it firmly. I have another SMA cal kit that at least has a knurled "midriff". No proper face for a wrench, but the knurl at least allows holding it firmly.

[Noy]

Where can i find which parts i habe to change to get a v2+ out of my v2.2?
Didn't find anything in groups.io..

And will there be a cost effective version of v2+4 without display, battery und fully closed case for PC use only?

[bicycleguy]

@Noy
A way to request the info was posted by OwO:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/nanovna-v2-aka-s-a-a-2/msg3233880/#msg3233880

I have made the hardware mods.  However a change to the boot loader is required to recognize and install V2+.  This requires a jtag programer.  There seems to be issues with getting the programmer to recognize the clone ST chips used in the nanovna.  My nano is a paper weight until this is resolved.

Funny, the open source project stlink-org/stlink seems to think that supporting STM clones is not something there clone software is supposed to do???  Don't know how the clone manufactures get around this, may a Chinese language st-link.

edit 2020/10/27  After some fiddling the windoz 10 STM programmer worked.  The now v2plus has even better performance and faster..  Awesome !

[Noy]

Thx Segger JLink should work or?

[mankan]

Use a clone STLink that does not use the target voltage sense or fool a real one by giving it 3V on that pin. I had the same issue.

[joeqsmith]

The double-female "through" piece that comes with the V2 and also V2 plus4 is completely round. Impossible to hold it firmly. I have another SMA cal kit that at least has a knurled "midriff". No proper face for a wrench, but the knurl at least allows holding it firmly.

So you want something like these?
https://www.amazon.com/Female-Barrel-Adapter-Connector-Straight/dp/B00VL6OCE2/ref=sr_1_3?crid=39MR5T1ES7AU5&dchild=1&keywords=sma+female+to+sma+female&qid=1603757580&sprefix=sma+fem%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-3

It looks like Digikey stocks at least one.   
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mueller-electric-co/BU-P72966/9675950

How does the new Nano handle the thru?   

[Miti]

I missed it this time. I wonder when they restock them.

I was told that they will restock them in about 2 weeks.

 . I asked Tindie bot to notify me.

[switchabl]

Thx Segger JLink should work or?

I've used the J-Link with the NanoVNA v2 MCU without any issues.

[thinkfat]

The double-female "through" piece that comes with the V2 and also V2 plus4 is completely round. Impossible to hold it firmly. I have another SMA cal kit that at least has a knurled "midriff". No proper face for a wrench, but the knurl at least allows holding it firmly.

So you want something like these?
https://www.amazon.com/Female-Barrel-Adapter-Connector-Straight/dp/B00VL6OCE2/ref=sr_1_3?crid=39MR5T1ES7AU5&dchild=1&keywords=sma+female+to+sma+female&qid=1603757580&sprefix=sma+fem%2Caps%2C204&sr=8-3

It looks like Digikey stocks at least one.   
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mueller-electric-co/BU-P72966/9675950

How does the new Nano handle the thru?

I don't need one of these, I have one of these already. One of the SMA cal kits I have includes it.

But I suggest HCXQS delivering a different cal kit with a proper barrel adapter. Not crazy-proper but at least such that you can screw and unscrew the cal standards and DUTs without too much wear on the contacts.

[Mechatrommer]

the trick is... be gratefull we got solt kit + good cables included at all, at much much less than $1K of damage... if i want to complaint, then its the open and short butt have same appearance, the open should have a little hole on the butt so we can easily recognize. but well what can i say for something that i (assume) got for basically free.

[joeqsmith]

Did yours come with the stainless connector/cable?   It looked like the standard was blue with gold plate.


****

Looks like everything arrived.  Packaging looked fine with several layers of bubble wrap.   V2+4 case is well made.  Does have a battery holder.   Tossed in a charged battery and it fired right up.  Cal kits for the two units appear the same except for the red rubber boot on the V2+ load.   Both thrus were as described, no flat. 

I haven't assembled the case of the V2+ yet.   

Played with the menus on the +4.  Seems easy enough to drive. 

Initial thoughts,  looks like OWO and team did a really nice job with it.   I want to thank you for all of your efforts. 

***
I'm surprised the designers did not use all of that space on the case to advertise.  Some fancy screening to give it some bling and their company logo/contact info.  The case is really nice and seems a shame to not letter it. 

I tried the PC software.  Basically, it hangs for a very long time and you can't press any buttons.  Almost like it is trying to connect to one of the several serial ports available.   Eventually, what ever it is trying to do times out and you can select the comm port and connect.  Then expect more delays.  Not smooth at all.   Ran into poor software with the original Nano as well.   

Looks like the commands are documented.   

Having fun but have yet to try and measure anything with it.

[joeqsmith]

The only real problem I saw when putting the plastic case that came with the V2+ together was the switches were not installed flat into the PCB.  The would interfere with the holes.   Quick touch of the iron.  Worse part is having to align the spacers when placing the covers.  They tend to move.   Extra spacers and screw were included.  I suspect people would loose them.   I left off the rubber O-ring.   

Flipper had printed a case for my original Nano.  I added a slot for the development connector. 

[Mechatrommer]

Did yours come with the stainless connector/cable?   It looked like the standard was blue with gold plate.

the steel cable is huber-suhner cable. i keep the blue cable safely for real job. the huber suhner cable is a little bit out of spec so i will torture that first.

The only real problem I saw when putting the plastic case that came with the V2+ together was the switches were not installed flat into the PCB.  The would interfere with the holes.

mine is aligned quite well. if they are not aligned, you can try turning them around up or down. the enclosure designer is clever enough to make none symetrical notch dimension so its unlikely you can install them wrong, if it should be the other way around, you'll see the notches and holes wont fit. my problem with buttons is they are too closely placed, i have to press with nail. if i press with finger, i'll press 2 buttons simultaneously.

[thinkfat]

the trick is... be gratefull we got solt kit + good cables included at all, at much much less than $1K of damage... if i want to complaint, then its the open and short butt have same appearance, the open should have a little hole on the butt so we can easily recognize. but well what can i say for something that i (assume) got for basically free.

I'm not "complaining". I'm trying to improve the quality of the product. Attention to detail is a differentiator. Your suggestion about putting a small hole into the "open" standard is another one of those little details. Also, at $130 the V2plus4 is not "cheap" cheap.

[Mechatrommer]

Also, at $130 the V2plus4 is not "cheap" cheap.

super-used old 3GHz HP/Agilent VNA still in range of $2K price tag. the 6GHz version is $3K, if they ever reach $1K range, i will grab one if i have some money saved, i guarantee you this. but that time still not here yet. Deepace KC901V is $2K. so blessed the NanoVNA birth. i agree with you, its not wrong to make suggestion for improvement, what i'm afraid, they will find better option as suggested, but increase the price as a result. if we need better cal kit, we can get from other sources. Kirkby Microwave provides both male and female at $500, guaranteed tracability to whatever HP/Agilent VNA he's using, he also provides respond plots for the kit, each are manually hand tuned and characterized for a week after payment with unique serial number (i guess if he is like me, he will keep data files for each set he's characterising in case customers come back to him due to lost data files). another China option that i searched provides only one gender at $200 with no characterization nor guarantee whatsoever. another is SDR kit etc and others cheaper version, you get what you paid. i tell you, with current world's VNA state, $100 is cheap! cheers.

[OwO]

Something like this might do the job but I'll need to find one with good enough parameters:

[joeqsmith]

Did yours come with the stainless connector/cable?   It looked like the standard was blue with gold plate.

the steel cable is huber-suhner cable. i keep the blue cable safely for real job. the huber suhner cable is a little bit out of spec so i will torture that first.

The only real problem I saw when putting the plastic case that came with the V2+ together was the switches were not installed flat into the PCB.  The would interfere with the holes.

mine is aligned quite well. if they are not aligned, you can try turning them around up or down. the enclosure designer is clever enough to make none symetrical notch dimension so its unlikely you can install them wrong, if it should be the other way around, you'll see the notches and holes wont fit. my problem with buttons is they are too closely placed, i have to press with nail. if i press with finger, i'll press 2 buttons simultaneously.

The rocker / push button switch on the original Nano, at least with my unit, was very poor.   I doubt I will use the buttons with the V2.  Both V2+ and V2+4 seem to drive nicely with the touch screen.  Eventually, I plan to write some better software for it and run it headless. 

I noticed the case had a polarity real quick.  You can't put it together wrong.... well.. I say that..  Human factor.

Cable makes sense now.

Also, at $130 the V2plus4 is not "cheap" cheap.

super-used old 3GHz HP/Agilent VNA still in range of $2K price tag. the 6GHz version is $3K, if they ever reach $1K range, i will grab one if i have some money saved, i guarantee you this. but that time still not here yet. Deepace KC901V is $2K. so blessed the NanoVNA birth. i agree with you, its not wrong to make suggestion for improvement, what i'm afraid, they will find better option as suggested, but increase the price as a result. if we need better cal kit, we can get from other sources. Kirkby Microwave provides both male and female at $500, guaranteed tracability to whatever HP/Agilent VNA he's using, he also provides respond plots for the kit, each are manually hand tuned and characterized for a week after payment with unique serial number (i guess if he is like me, he will keep data files for each set he's characterising in case customers come back to him due to lost data files). another China option that i searched provides only one gender at $200 with no characterization nor guarantee whatsoever. another is SDR kit etc and others cheaper version, you get what you paid. i tell you, with current world's VNA state, $100 is cheap! cheers.

Agree, $120 + shipping is very inexpensive if it actually does what they claim.   Like the original Nano, I am not expecting much.  The original  was a big surprise.  With all three units running side by side, the resolution and speed is obvious.    Just from that, it's impressive.   

I plan to run it with the cal kit and cables they included.  I'm sure below 1GHz, it will be fine but at > 2GHz, its hard to believe it will put up meaningful data.  Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?   I'm guessing it $120 works.   Looking forward to hours of fun.   

[Mechatrommer]

Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?

up to 6GHz, i can torque with just my bare hand to get consistent result. i have china torque wrench for sma, but i dont find that necessary to use so its just for backup. i think using wrench will put too much torque and wear out the connectors faster thats why i dont like to use it.

Something like this might do the job but I'll need to find one with good enough parameters:

thats funny, thats for panel mounting. the one joeqsmith posted in reply #294 is more practical (i have that in stock) and the one came with Kirkby set is more shorter than provided by NanoVNA, full thread across length but has flattened area in the middle to put locking wrench, as in Joe's reply #288.

[thinkfat]

I plan to run it with the cal kit and cables they included.  I'm sure below 1GHz, it will be fine but at > 2GHz, its hard to believe it will put up meaningful data.  Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?   I'm guessing it $120 works.   Looking forward to hours of fun.   

I have nothing to test S21 here, but S11 on a DIY WiFi antenna gives very reasonable results. Resonates where it should, impedance almost bang-on 50 Ohms (real).

[cdev]

Above 3 GHz the response is a bit lumpy, but not as bad as the ones that have been posted here. Mine actually produces output and measure it to 4.4 GHz but I have no way of knowing how accurate that is. I have to say I've been playing around with mine more than I have with any other test instrument, including my scope.

Its making it all much more accessible and fun.

[Mechatrommer]

child topic for bug and wishlist

[thinkfat]

Why not combine playing with both? If your scope has a 50 Ohm input setting, try measuring how much 50 Ohms it actually is across its specified bandwidth :-)

[0culus]

the trick is... be gratefull we got solt kit + good cables included at all, at much much less than $1K of damage... if i want to complaint, then its the open and short butt have same appearance, the open should have a little hole on the butt so we can easily recognize. but well what can i say for something that i (assume) got for basically free.

I'm not "complaining". I'm trying to improve the quality of the product. Attention to detail is a differentiator. Your suggestion about putting a small hole into the "open" standard is another one of those little details. Also, at $130 the V2plus4 is not "cheap" cheap.

Yes it is a cheap option. Even for $200 it would still be beyond reasonable, if you compare it to the used prices for “real” VNAs. For the frequency bands most people care about it’s a steal. Personally, my interests lie in the microwave bands so I’m actively pursuing a 8510C system.

[joeqsmith]

Not being able to torque a connector at 4GHz, how does that work?

up to 6GHz, i can torque with just my bare hand to get consistent result. i have china torque wrench for sma, but i dont find that necessary to use so its just for backup. i think using wrench will put too much torque and wear out the connectors faster thats why i dont like to use it.

I define eBay working as no smoke came out.  How do you define consistent?  It would be interesting to see some data on this. 

[joeqsmith]

S11 of two 0805 resistors.  Tightening by hand.  I wasn't trying to make it look bad.   In the 100s of MHz, I would buy it but I think your fooling yourself not using proper techniques in the several GHz. 

As I side note,  I actually had someone try and tell me to use some crazy contact cleaner on my connectors.      

[joeqsmith]

It appears that the two standards supplied with the V2+ and +4 are the same.  No surprise.  They also appear to be big improvement over the part supplied with my original Nano.   Again, what we would expect.  The new parts appear to be gold plated where the part supplied with my original Nano appears stainless.

Normal procedure, before doing anything the parts are inspected.  Note the surface finish compared with the Mini-Circuits.

So no real surprises just yet. 

***
Because it came up before, the datasheets for the ANNE show typical numbers.  Typical does not imply that all parts are meet these numbers.  That should have been obvious but apparently it's not.  I purchased a few of these and then sorted them to find these two.  I now use #3 for my poor man's reference standard.  Two sets of HP standards were loaned out to characterize my standards.   

***
My first attempt to talk with the V2P4 with LabView.  Sending a 0x0d causes it to return 0x32.  Wow...  (and it didn't require 15 seconds!!!)

The command set looks well thought out.  When I tried the standard software, after waiting about 15 seconds so I could select the comm port, once it connects the LCD stopped displaying data and has a message USB Mode.  I assume they are attempting to get some improved throughput with it.   Guessing this is automatically done once the PC starts requesting data.   I'll find out soon enough. 

[Mechatrommer]

can anyone give me link to pcb gerber files for latest V2_2 revision? ie the sma connectors at the bottom (my NanoVNA PCB version). the one provided in github is sma connectors are on the left side... btw a lot of guru talks here i believe many of you can give me a light on my confusion here... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vna-view-(cal-kit-parm-setting)-question/?topicscreen

[joeqsmith]

Sorry, I have yet to attach anything to the Nano's ports. 

I didn't notice any papers for the cal kits supplied with mine.   Let's assume you found some numbers.   While the metrology grade standards I borrowed use a common set of characteristics, you can imagine the machining/assembly tolerances on these are tight enough to support it.  Can we say the same for the standards supplied with the Nano? 

Again, like your comment about hand tightening connectors giving consistent results, I would expect the same is true for trying to come up with a common set of characteristics for the supplied standards.  You can do it, but really, how good are the results?  The surface finishes alone may provide some indication.

Making my own standards was nothing short of a nightmare.   I may still buy an actual set for home use.  I am VERY ignorant about the subject but the few times I have attempted to get any meaningful data in the 1.5-3GHz, I feel I was kidding myself.   The only difference now is that I KNOW I was kidding myself.      

I could possibly characterize the new standards, similar to what I did with my home made ones but, they may change in a short time.   Another interesting test.   

***
Rough reading...

[cdev]

I bet they do change as the plating wears off, its true... BUT..

As work went into the S-A-A-2 and the price was very reasonable, so IMHO, its pointless to worry about an accessory. Especially when its so easy to replace.

If the results will be much more accurate by using an exquisitely machined cal kit hardware, clearly, there is another market niche there that could be filled by a similarly affordable but high quality alternative. That would be like the SAA2, a big help for learners.

 I like the newer all in one calibration standards that look like they might cost $20-30 at most. They resemble well machined bicycle tools I have.

But I was surprised to see them selling for *gasp* several hundred dollars, or even more.  I suspect we all secretly see that its ridiculous to sell them for that much.

Somebody is making a real killing there on markup. They supposedly come with calibration curves.

I wonder, are they ever any different?

-----

Gabriel, I am totally happy with my SAA2.
I'd like to run mine on the computer and not be worried about the display,

There shouldn't be any problem with simply reducing the power to the display backlight, right? (throwing a resistor in series with it, maybe, on a switch)

Will the USB mode text burn in to it?

[joeqsmith]

I'm not worried about anything when it comes to the Nano.  Few people should be surprised by the data I have shown so far. 

Yeah, I doubt many people would dare to attach their new Keysight cal standard to a Nano using the supplied cables.   Similar to your point about the standards supplied with the Nano.   So, does it make sense to attach a $1000 cable to a $120 Nano so you can use your $10,000 standards with it?     

I am mostly focused on getting some software to drive it.   I have lots of questions after reading the spec.  Some things just don't make a lot of sense.    I will just need to start trying things to see what works.

[Grandchuck]

Some recent experiments:  First, a photo of a Wurth 6-hole ferrite bead mounted on an SMA connector.  Second, the manufacturer's Z plot with 4 data points from the Nano +4.  Third, the nano's Z plot.  Fourth, an S21 plot for an 800 MHz filter.  Last, a Z plot for a simple ferrite bead.  The +4 is 

Now need some higher frequency experiments 

[Mechatrommer]

Again, like your comment about hand tightening connectors giving consistent results

this is subjective matter. i wont make a reply to your previous query, since it will (usually) make further stir or arguments. if your measurement indicated nonconsistency, then you are free to use other means such as whats suggested by the standard, to use wrench to the specific torque figure. as i said, i thought i've followed the standard torque figure, i'm not sure what was wrong, my china cheap torque or the figure, it was just not up to my expectation, having knowing how much a good CAL kit costs i'm not going to get another one soon again. but that is just me. and the cost for good quality torque wrench is another decision to think about, they are not cheap either.

I didn't notice any papers for the cal kits supplied with mine. Let's assume you found some numbers. While the metrology grade standards I borrowed use a common set of characteristics, you can imagine the machining/assembly tolerances on these are tight enough to support it.  Can we say the same for the standards supplied with the Nano?

this is the reason why there are CAL kit that cost hundreds or thousands and there are that costs only few dollars or free. can you hope the machining tolerance of CAL kits provided for free with Nano have the same stringent process as those made by Agilent, R&S et al that cost thousands? even with stringent and quality process, CAL kit from brand names will always come with their own unique profile/characteristics/s1p/offset/databased files.

the CAL kits from Kirkby Microwave probably the same construction as the Nano's (with some nice additional features such as both genders, Open Load with nice opening on the cap to distinguish from Short (fully closed cap) Load, Verification attenutors all s1p/s2p characterized and foamy water tight w pressure release Pelican case), but the price on Kirkby's kit is mostly due to work done to characterize it and provide the data to customers in relative to a well known, good quality and metrology grade calibrated T&M equipment and standard kit. i was paying for Mr Kirkby's expertise, work and initial investment on tools. i think i can buy $5 CAL kit from China and have him characterize it for me, but then he will charge for the service the same as what i paid for his CAL kit in the first place. to put it another way, peoples or companies are willing spend high price just to keep their equipments such as DMM or DSO calibrated by metrology lab for every year because they know/appreciate/need what measurement accuracy assurance and tracability to metrology standards are. we can make our DIY tools such as DMM or DSO or VNA/CAL kit if we want, as we like and be happy with the measurement result, and most of the time its the practical way since we are only doing arduino and $5 cheap/personal use stuffs or hobby ham/radio/rc projects. but without tracability to standards, as you said, we can kid ourself. comparing our tool with an accurate standards at least we have educated/proven/known way on how to compensate measurement accuracy esp when we are dealing with customers thats going to ask stuffs like this, reliability, accuracy, quality etc... if you search this forum about VNA subject and google for app notes more, you'll know more..

So, does it make sense to attach a $1000 cable to a $120 Nano so you can use your $10,000 standards with it?

imho. the answer is yes. there were discussions in this forum and here and there in the net that i agree with. VNA is just like a blind measurement tool, its just an s-parameter calculator tool with enough peripherals/components/circuits/rig to test a DUT. but it needs sort of a good "boundary condition" to complete the calculation correctly, that is a good and well characterized CAL kit. you may not need to put $1K cabling in there since they will probably be "de-embedded" in the calculation (behind the measurement 's plane) but think of CAL kit that you use during measurement as a "voltage reference" IC in every quality DMM. the more far off the Vref wanders from true value, the more wrong you measurement will be, how much far off is the characterization process we usually found in Vref IC's datasheet figure. the characterization process for CAL kit is its S11 plot/s1p/offset profile. although you can find characterization plot on some choosen CAL kit from SDR web site, but machining process will make different CAL kit's profile will differ to another set by some amount, how much the amount? you need to ask manufacturer, it will be nice and easier if we have the exact character for our own unique set come from factory, no need much "re-compensation" to correct measurement result. unfortunately a well characterized CAL kit is not any closer cheap to a well characterized Vref IC in every Fluke or Gossen DMM. ymmv cheers.

btw: i urge members and friends to get at least Kirkby Microwave's grade CAL kit standard, ie with characterized s1p/s2p files and S11/S21 graph plot for each kit. from what i know, you cant simply make this thing up from some fancy PC softwares, the kit is characterized based on much more expensive/characterized/calibrated CAL kit and equipment brand and bandwidth. Mr. Kirby also care enough about our measurement and device accuracy by providing extra -3dB "Verification" attenuator with its characteristic data similar to the CAL kit purchased. there are few benefit for this other than simply to use it as measurement standard. (1) measurement accuracy assurance from expert in the field (2) instrument verification so we can know if our VNA is good HW and FW built or else based on some proven concept/study, i provided the link (to a thread that links) to Kirkby Verification process above in earlier post. (3) we can discuss and help each other out if we have confusion about this matter esp on how to use s1p/s2p cal kit files correctly into VNA View SW. i'm sure some of you have better understanding in some other aspects that you can solve puzzles easier more than we can. i'm not affiliate of Kirkby, just a happy customer. cheers.

[joeqsmith]

I should have made it clear that my comments of attaching a metrology grade standard to the nano would be the risk of damaging the standard.   Using the high grade cable or adapter to act as a buffer between the standard and the nano. Of course that cable or adapter would be at risk.

I wasn't suggesting that people would not do this because they couldn't improve their measurements.   Most just wouldn't plug a $1000 connector into a $1 connector.  I've shown photos of the standards I borrowed under the microscope.  Pure artwork.  It's not hard to imagine these getting damaged. 

It seems the person who had helped me with my home made standards had told me that Kirkby was screening loads.  This would make sense.    In my case, I think I paid $80 or so for 6pcs and used one part.  Still, a whole lot cheaper than what that standard I used to characterize it would have cost.  Of course, not near as good.   

Yes, any time we use words like "works" we need to define what it means.  It is very subjective for some reason.   More an observation on my part than an argument.   

The small amount I have dabbled in the GHz plus, I have gained an appreciation for the people working it the higher frequencies. 

***
rough reading...

[Mechatrommer]

I should have made it clear that my comments of attaching a metrology grade standard to the nano would be the risk of damaging the standard.   Using the high grade cable or adapter to act as a buffer between the standard and the nano. Of course that cable or adapter would be at risk.

high grade CAL kit may lose its characteristics or metrological grade even when using high grade cable and VNA (see shariar video on KC901V iirc he mentioned it on HP/Agilent CAL kit). can you guess why? i'm guessing... torque wrench, but i'm maybe just kidding myself. otoh by logic, cheap metal should be weaker and softer hence dont grind high grade cal kit/cable/connector as bad, but that logic may not be applicable anyway.

[joeqsmith]

I would imagine messing up a 20GHz cal standard is much easier to do than a 300MHz cal standard.  Those metrology grade adapters come at a price.  Still, its easy enough to send them off to be checked.   

Still you watch people working at this level. 

[KD0CAC John]

YouTube shut down the video link ?

The smaller the unit of measure - the more it costs , 300 MHz  - 20 GHz .

I hope everyone that is reading these post catches the current theme - Do not through away money $ [ unless it's in my direction
Do not use multi thousand dollar standards on a $50 dollar tool .

The closer the tolerance / measure - the more gold is use , then the better quality - the thicker the gold - gold is softer than most other conductors - so wares the fastest - so do not wear away that gold on every " tom , dick or harry - use should be as minimal as possible , unless the measurement has very high value , and pays for the high value .

Anology on fit & finish [ aside from the gold issue measuring small 00.00000 - zeros cost $ , look at the cost of a machine that can make & keep those numbers .0000 .
Do not torque your lug nut of you wheel , and it will come loser gouging out the holes and eventually the wheel comes off at highway speeds , I've seen it done ;(

If you need - I can help you out of gold , I also recycle metals from electronics mostly as a hobby - but plan on that hobby making money too / I hope someday .

On the waiting list for the v2+4 .


After posting , I was able to click on video .
That is the first for me , watching the scan for fitting connectors , cool .
I've done machining with Air Bearings .00000 digits , but only doing about .000 with electrical stuff , so far .

[joeqsmith]

YouTube shut down the video link ?

Seems to play here. 

Your points are the main reason I can't see trying to buy a used set of standards.   The sellers ask a lot for something that is very high risk on the buyers part.  Most likely, the buyer will send them in and I suspect there are no repairs but rather the whole standard is replaced.   After seeing so many working things on eBay, this just isn't something I would consider.   

[KD0CAC John]

Ya , after I posted , the page worked ?
Watched it then .

[Mechatrommer]

yup but we sure dont need multi thousands dollar airline/waveguide 20GHz thing into NanoVNA. my point was, Kirkby is the "cheapest" option (specified up to 6 to 12GHz) "characterized" CAL kit. cheaper  than this, there is none so far afaik, we can either buy $5 grade or i prefer to make myself. here is what i currently used as DUT test fixture.



but i have Kirkby kit in case i need verification. with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads. but you will be surprised how different your measurement on DUT if you use this as CAL vs if you use Kirkby kit as CAL beyond 500-1000 MHz frequency. ymmv.

[ogden]

with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads.

Small PCB's are most likely to blame. You would want to consider making SOL kit out of lone connectors as most DIY'ers are doing (pic from suggested page with build info and test results):

[Mechatrommer]

with respect to Kirkby kit, the above fixture's "50 ohm Load" is not flat 50 ohm, only good up to few hundreds MHz, similarly to Open and Short Loads.

Small PCB's are most likely to blame. You would want to consider making SOL kit out of lone connectors as most DIY'ers are doing (pic from suggested page with build info and test results):

yes i also have made one or two diy SMA set much earlier. but then, we need some way to verify our diy kit performance with the "real thing". the point of fixture is so i can insert my DUT easily into measurement plane. with this fixture method, i can also see what characteristic trace impedance of my seeedstudio manufactured pcb on cheap substrate. the picture shown is using 2mm trace width. i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).

on side note on hand tightening.. i'll need to hand tighten to maximum torque my hand can do + some wiggling until the connection is really tight, then i can get consistent result. but then its a subjective term, some people may not be satisfied enough with 1 or 2 dB (or screen pixels) offed. maybe me (or someone else) can make a blog or writing later on how to verify (distinguish between good or bad) characteristics impedance of any brand coaxial cables or pcb microstrip/stripline.

[ogden]

i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).

Impedance of grounded coplanar waveguide most likely was not 50 Ohms. You can check here or here. Look around internet - you will definitely find decent designs for material (thickness) you use.

[Mechatrommer]

i recently sent latest revision 2.0 of my "VNA Test Plane" pcb using 1mm unmasked trace, it turned out to be "worse" than ver1 (note: "worse" is a subjective term).

Impedance of grounded coplanar waveguide most likely was not 50 Ohms. You can check here. Look around internet - you will definitely find decent designs for material (thickness) you use.

yes i've read about theories. iirc i used Saturn PCB and other pcb trace impedance calculator to make my pcb. i've made "Transmission Lines" PCB test, 100 ohm in Saturn (0.2mm trace) turned out to be like 73 ohm on real life pcb, 75 ohm (math/theory 0.6mm trace) -> 59 ohm (real life), 50 ohm -> 47 ohm, but then they only good for low frequency application maybe largely due to "adjustable trimpot" used as termination outlined by w2aew in his "figuring out characteristic impedance of coax cable" video. attached is sample of impedance test on 100-50 ohm traces of my earlier "Transmission Lines" PCB test to get the feeling for you of what i'm talking about. or i will need to tweak FR4 substrate dielectric coefficient, or using Roger PCB to get consistent and impedance controlled traces, you can make a survey on what cost they are

but then if we want to stick to China cheap $5 FR4 substrate, there's writing such as..

https://www.nwengineeringllc.com/article/what-is-the-fiber-weave-effect-in-a-pcb-substrate.php
https://res.mdpi.com/d_attachment/applsci/applsci-09-00353/article_deploy/applsci-09-00353.pdf
https://www.isola-group.com/wp-content/uploads/PCB-Material-Selection-for-High-speed-Digital-Designs-1.pdf
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/programmable/us/en/pdfs/literature/an/an528.pdf

that made simple theory calculation collapse. thats why some designers/projects, or even NanoVNA pcb is using 45 degrees angled traces and extensive amount of hours for testing and verification. but what about if fiber weaves geometry change again? what if they layout fiber in 45 degrees? impedance and theory screwed up again, a simple one line theory formula wont cut it. thats why we need VNA or DSO with signal integrity/eye diagram tools, DSO with eye diagram is surely not any cheap and no birth yet on cheap DSO with eye diagram thats another story. anyway, birth of cheap VNA is a blessing, we can add more "eye" into pcb design process. a good learning process. cheers.

[ogden]

To measure PCB trace impedance, better make through fixture for S21 measurements like shown here. Your S11 results show impossible - line impedance wandering between 25 and 200 Ohms. Do you know why?

[Mechatrommer]

To measure PCB trace impedance, better make through fixture for S21 measurements like shown here.

that is to test components like capacitors (shunted to ground), not PCB trace tester, how to shunt a pcb (DUT) on that tester pcb? anyway my KC901V doesnt support S21 impedance analyzer, i'm not sure if NanoVNA has. i also have "through" PCB included in my VNA Test Plane setup above if i want to do such thing. its compatible for both SMA and BNC connectors. i have few like 10 or 20 pcs from previous orders.

Your S11 results show impossible - line impedance wandering between 25 and 200 Ohms. Do you know why?

its a combination of line and termination impedance. they are all parasitics and strays that resulted varying impedance across frequencies. reflection due to 50 ohm mismatch is one of the thing.

[ogden]

that is to test components like capacitors (shunted to ground), not PCB trace tester, how to shunt a pcb (DUT) on that tester pcb?

Just don't. For verification of transmission line design and PCB materials/process you do not need to measure same exact trace. Measure another thru trace of same design on same panel, made specially for purpose of impedance control - as most RF engineers do. Sometimes they put impedance control strip on tooling frame of the panel. Of course when you want to measure capacitor on the fixture - then you need SOL kit you made out of same fixture.

[Mechatrommer]

Measure another thru trace of same design on same panel, made specially for purpose of impedance control - as most RF engineers do.

RF engineers use another type of VNA for verification, not like NanoVNA nor KC901V... ie full 2 port VNA.. thats why their e-cal is connected to both VNA ports during CAL (there is switching inside e-cal). NanoVNA, Deepace and any other cheap VNA only require CAL on port 1 (ch0), port 2 (ch1) cant be CAL'ed the same way as full 2 port VNA. they the RF engineers have different workflow. afaik there is no way to measure trace impedance using S21 method (only can measure gain/loss and phase/delay), without terminating it properly and probing reflection from it. on cheap VNA, only S11 can do that afaik. or do you have any reference that state specifically exactly this? (measuring trace impedance from S21) or at least can you demonstrate how to do that on NanoVNA?

[ogden]

Yes you are right. No S21. I just have been told that one end of 2-port test strip you attacht VNA, but another - to 50 Ohm cal standard. Silly me thinking that 2 terminals means S21 Usually looking at S11 Smith chart and return loss is enough.

[TimFox]

Can one connect two NanoVNAs together to obtain a full two-port VNA?

[ogden]

Can one connect two NanoVNAs together to obtain a full two-port VNA?

It could be possible to somehow frankenstein two NanoVNA's together, but it is not worth it. You won't get functional 2-port VNA anyway. Better just swap cables to measure your DUT other way around. Hint: for S11 use external terminator instead of Port2.

[Mechatrommer]

Can one connect two NanoVNAs together to obtain a full two-port VNA?

the units need to be in synched, otherwise i dont see it how. while conversing with odgen, i found a diy full 2 port 6GHz VNA site from 2 years ago... http://www.yl3akb.lv/content/vna_v2/vna_v2.php i'm not sure why the guy didnt pursue it (no update) its promising. with OwO roadmap of not-full 2 port 6GHz is ahead, i guess full 2 port version will take another years. but... we learnt to deal on how to get S12 and S22, just turn the DUT over, ie its output that once connected to P2 is now connected to P1 vice versa. the more we dig into this, the more we realize there a lot more "s-parameters goodies" we are missing, such as the S21 impedance analyzer, and transmission line Zc plotter (see below)...

Yes you are right. No S21. I just have been told that one end of 2-port test strip you attacht VNA, but another - to 50 Ohm cal standard...

i figured this method while i started to collect few "better" quality coax cable such as Huber Suhner, Gore and China semi rigid coax. starting from here Performance of China 50 ohm Coaxial Cable it maybe not so obvious how i did it, or maybe you all know it already. i was happy go lucky using some hunglow coax cable that later i figured out as crappy (wobbling as you can see in my plots above) it is usefull though if operating frequency is carefully selected when crossing the desired impedance. i didnt find on how to test coax or stripline's Zc in definitive and easy way without extensive math matrix. so i have to find my own "subjective" way (good coax or stripline will have flatter plot close to its Zc when terminated with its Zc (characteristic impedance)) but searching again, i found the method, but still it requires math in this post by Bud...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/vna-measurements-of-pcb-transmission-line/msg1775117/#msg1775117
https://chemandy.com/technical-articles/measuring-track-characteristic-impedance/measuring-track-characteristic-impedance-article1.htm

it will be nice if a VNA can implement this "goody" (automated) into their FW/GUI or PC SW. but what can we expect from a cheap tool? designers with limited resources? sometime i think i want to diy VNA that fullfill many requirements, but its going to waste a lot of my time designing, respinning prototype pcbs, buying parts (wrong parts) and understanding the heavy math, so i'd rather doing fun stuffs (my area of interest) than building another T&M tool, actually i'm currently building another T&M tools, on and off its been years of prototyping and verifying, so obviously there is no empty slot for another tool atm. OwO and the team are so close at this but maybe they are too busy with other stuffs and "directive". the yl3akb/VentRF guy had a longer vision ahead with his full 2 port 6GHz VNA.

i think we wandered off topic already, where was i? Reply #315 VNA View is nice we can key in CAL kit's characteristic s1p files, if i know how to use this correctly and if the feature is working correctly at all, i should be able to trace back NanoVNA cal kit (with respect) to my Kirkby CAl kit by creating their s1p files and then back to HP/Agilent CAL kit thats Mr Kirkby was using when tracing/characterizing mine... hopefully.. but always there are time needed to do the learning.

[ogden]

i found a diy full 2 port 6GHz VNA site from 2 years ago... http://www.yl3akb.lv/content/vna_v2/vna_v2.php i'm not sure why the guy didnt pursue it (no update) its promising.

Yes, very promising project. When you sum it all up - you will see that BOM alone exceeds pain treshold of DIY and enthusiast buyers, approaching level of commercial low end tools. Cost is always cooling factor for project/idea to become insanely popular (speculation).

[thinkfat]

I'm trying to rebuild the firmware for the v2plus4 from the git repository, but I'm getting a non-working binary out of it. Basically I followed the README, installed the latest ARM toolchain and tried recompiling the "master" branch. Firmware is built, but after DFU upload, I just get a blank white screen.

Tried recompiling the 20201013 release (git checkout 20201013) but didn't work, I get a missing include file (nvic.h) from inside mculib.

Any pointers?

PS: got it to work. There was a hiccup with the linker file, something modified and broke it. Once I restored it to the state in git, the build worked fine.

[innkeeper]

what is the maximum input dbm on the v2.2 board?

[hpmaxim]

Looks like the 4" is back in stock.

Before I pull the trigger on this, is there anything I should know?  Is a new rev due out soon? Are there known hardware issues (less concerned about software if it will get fixed and I can update the firmware) which I should wait on getting resolved before I buy, etc?

[joeqsmith]

Looks like the 4" is back in stock.

Before I pull the trigger on this, is there anything I should know?  Is a new rev due out soon? Are there known hardware issues (less concerned about software if it will get fixed and I can update the firmware) which I should wait on getting resolved before I buy, etc?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3329742/#msg3329742

[joeqsmith]

what is the maximum input dbm on the v2.2 board?

Maximum where it first starts to go nonlinear?  Maximum as in the 3dB compression point?  Maximum where smoke rolls out of it?  Maximum where nothing is left but chard electronics?   

Keep it below what the output signal is and you should be fine. 

[KD0CAC John]

Yes , got the email this morning and ordered .
Have to checkout your update

[hpmaxim]

Looks like the 4" is back in stock.

Before I pull the trigger on this, is there anything I should know?  Is a new rev due out soon? Are there known hardware issues (less concerned about software if it will get fixed and I can update the firmware) which I should wait on getting resolved before I buy, etc?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/nanovna-custom-software/msg3329742/#msg3329742

Some sort of birdie at 3.7GHz perhaps?  Honestly, above 1.5GHz, I can't think of anything I'd really care about until 2.4GHz, and then I can't imagine what I would care about until 5GHz.  How is performance below 3GHz?

[joeqsmith]

Go back a few posts in that thread and start reading.  I've provided a fair amount of information if you're interested. 

[hpmaxim]

Looks like your basic conclusion was NanoVNA (original) is just fine if you are below 1GHZ and VNA2+  is okay from 1 to 3 GHz... Above 3 GHz it's like playing horseshoes with a blind person?

I have (or rather had since it seems to have disappeared into the abyss along with half a dozen other things) an original.

[joeqsmith]

I typically suggest staying below 300MHz with the original Nano.   The V2+ and +4 run fine, sort of below a GHz.  The inability to look at narrow band filters IMO was a big miss but I experiment a fair amount.  If all you are doing is trying to measure your antenna SWR, this really doesn't matter.   

I was really surprised to see the poor performance above 3GHz with the V2+4.  I was even more surprised when I looked at the MidWest attenuators with the V2+/+4 and the v2p was more stable.   The fact they advertise the   V2+4 for 4GHZ and the V2+ for 3GHz, makes no sense to me.   They are both poor above 3GHz.   

These low cost units IMO, make a really good training tool.  If you want to play with sub 300MHz circuits and are trying for example to make your own SSB radios, the original Nano may be a better choice.   If you want to play with microwave designs, the V2+4 is really the better choice.   If you were tuning wide band filters for example and wanted a faster update rate (so you can see the effects of your adjustments live) the V2+4 is a big improvement over the original Nano.  If you were playing with very low noise circuits, like that 50dB attenuator we were making in another thread.  That was really pushing the original Nano.  The V2+4 would again be a better choice. 

Of course if you look at the data I have shown, there's a bit of difference these low cost units and my vintage boat anchors but if you are just trying to learn, I don't think the shortcomings of these units a that big of a deal.   IMO, they are the perfect beginners tool and can throw up some pretty decent data depending what you use them for.   I had made up some simple microwave experiments that I thought may have been fun for beginners to try and build at home and learn more about it.   

If you have some specific test you would like to see ran, feel free to ask.  It's possible I may be able to set it up for you.   

[cdev]

The missing piece of the puzzle for antenna experimenters is some means of automating the antenna pattern testing process, (assuming you have access to some open space, an RF anechoic chamber is likely out of reach for most of us)

I think the easiest way to do that would be using stepper motors and perhaps a nice A/B relay setup, kind of like what optometrists who use the old fashioned setups do for picking what lenses to use in glasses.

I think its possible to use relays to extend the functionality of a two port VNA to make an effective four port VNA too. (Or so I read in QEX a while ago)

Joe, the same relays are used as the tiny low voltage Omron ones you use in your switch box.

[hpmaxim]

I have to confess, my immediate need is checking an aviation (118-136MHz) antenna.  I love having toys, and being able to say: "Hey, I've got a 2 port 4 GHz VNA!" is good bragging rights (without mentioning its $30/60/120).  But I don't routinely build RF circuits, and other than perhaps characterizing components for self-resonant frequency, I'm not sure what I'd do with it.

[joeqsmith]

I have to confess, my immediate need is checking an aviation (118-136MHz) antenna.  I love having toys, and being able to say: "Hey, I've got a 2 port 4 GHz VNA!" is good bragging rights (without mentioning its $30/60/120).  But I don't routinely build RF circuits, and other than perhaps characterizing components for self-resonant frequency, I'm not sure what I'd do with it.

 

I think the thing to do is just stay in the forums and claim you are a EE with 40 years of RF design experience and claim you personally own, say a mill in new TE.   That's the cheapest way out.

The Nano has a single receiver and can't measure all four S-parameters.  You really need something better.   That and the Nano is so cheap, all your friends will already have one.  Your goal should be to one up them!   

I saved some pictures of people who have set up some really nice non-functioning labs for show.  That may be another option.  Buy everything damaged and set it all up so it looks nice.  Maybe have a cheap scope you can turn on if people come over.  Maybe get some cheap unfinished projects on eBay to place on the bench to make it look more real.   Costs a little more but for some real bragging rights, seems effective.   

I would say, forget the bragging rights, find that original Nano and learn how to use it.   If you are working below 300MHz, it can throw up some very impressive data.  If you want to brag, brag about how much you have learned from using the Nano. 

[joeqsmith]

...

I think its possible to use relays to extend the functionality of a two port VNA to make an effective four port VNA too. (Or so I read in QEX a while ago)

Joe, the same relays are used as the tiny low voltage Omron ones you use in your switch box.

I think those were $10-$20 each.  They work alright but the isolation was poor.   I have an old Transco relay that I made up a really crappy DC-DC to drive it from the USB port.  My software supports it.  I plan to mount that along with a couple of bias-t's and maybe a decent step attenuator.   But then I think, I should really add some mixers and some better couplers and maybe a wide band amp......       Reality always steps in. 

[hpmaxim]

I have to confess, my immediate need is checking an aviation (118-136MHz) antenna.  I love having toys, and being able to say: "Hey, I've got a 2 port 4 GHz VNA!" is good bragging rights (without mentioning its $30/60/120).  But I don't routinely build RF circuits, and other than perhaps characterizing components for self-resonant frequency, I'm not sure what I'd do with it.

 

I think the thing to do is just stay in the forums and claim you are a EE with 40 years of RF design experience and claim you personally own, say a mill in new TE.   That's the cheapest way out.

The Nano has a single receiver and can't measure all four S-parameters.  You really need something better.   That and the Nano is so cheap, all your friends will already have one.  Your goal should be to one up them!   

I saved some pictures of people who have set up some really nice non-functioning labs for show.  That may be another option.  Buy everything damaged and set it all up so it looks nice.  Maybe have a cheap scope you can turn on if people come over.  Maybe get some cheap unfinished projects on eBay to place on the bench to make it look more real.   Costs a little more but for some real bragging rights, seems effective.   

I would say, forget the bragging rights, find that original Nano and learn how to use it.   If you are working below 300MHz, it can throw up some very impressive data.  If you want to brag, brag about how much you have learned from using the Nano.

I'm an EE with 20+ years of IC design experience.  Also an Extra Class ham who hasn't touched a ham radio in a decade, maybe longer...  but fairly limited RF experience.

[mawyatt]

I have to confess, my immediate need is checking an aviation (118-136MHz) antenna.  I love having toys, and being able to say: "Hey, I've got a 2 port 4 GHz VNA!" is good bragging rights (without mentioning its $30/60/120).  But I don't routinely build RF circuits, and other than perhaps characterizing components for self-resonant frequency, I'm not sure what I'd do with it.

 

I think the thing to do is just stay in the forums and claim you are a EE with 40 years of RF design experience and claim you personally own, say a mill in new TE.   That's the cheapest way out.

The Nano has a single receiver and can't measure all four S-parameters.  You really need something better.   That and the Nano is so cheap, all your friends will already have one.  Your goal should be to one up them!   

I saved some pictures of people who have set up some really nice non-functioning labs for show.  That may be another option.  Buy everything damaged and set it all up so it looks nice.  Maybe have a cheap scope you can turn on if people come over.  Maybe get some cheap unfinished projects on eBay to place on the bench to make it look more real.   Costs a little more but for some real bragging rights, seems effective.   

I would say, forget the bragging rights, find that original Nano and learn how to use it.   If you are working below 300MHz, it can throw up some very impressive data.  If you want to brag, brag about how much you have learned from using the Nano.

I'm an EE with 20+ years of IC design experience.  Also an Extra Class ham who hasn't touched a ham radio in a decade, maybe longer...  but fairly limited RF experience.

Without the spectacular ICs that folks have designed, there wouldn't be any NanoVNAs, TinySAs, moderately priced DSOs, AWGs, or SAs for that matter. We'd be tossed back into the days when a scope, or even signal generator, outside of a Heathkit or B&K, weren't priced within reach of a hobbyist. We wouldn't have the Smartphones, computers, laptops or reasonable internet access either

So Hat's off to the IC designers that have and are continuing to create the future

Best,

[joeqsmith]

These were OMRON G6KU-2F-RF-T.  Looks like $22/ea. 

Datasheet:
https://omronfs.omron.com/en_US/ecb/products/pdf/en-g6k_2f_rf.pdf

The first attempt used a few M/A-COM GaAs MMICs.   Both designs were not worth the effort.   Isolation was really poor.   Attached is my old Transco 28V relay, powered and controlled from a FTDI USB  TTL adaptor.    Isolation on this part is something around 60dB to 18GHz, over 80 below a GHz.  Something like that.  700C if you wanted to looked it up.     

[cdev]

The author of the article uses a shielded box partition with a wall between them for isolation, so it could easily double the size of the nanoVNA, so the idea of an external add on for bench use makes more sense I think. See the second graphic below.

This would be a useful add on for the many of us with these small VNAs.

It could also be incorporated into a nanoVNA case. If it was permanently there, it would make sense to calibrate the vna for its presence permanently and add its presence to the FW. People could plug the calibration into the routines. Not very difficult. That would eliminate another source of error.

...

I think its possible to use relays to extend the functionality of a two port VNA to make an effective four port VNA too. (Or so I read in QEX a while ago)

Joe, the same relays are used as the tiny low voltage Omron ones you use in your switch box.

I think those were $10-$20 each.  They work alright but the isolation was poor.   I have an old Transco relay that I made up a really crappy DC-DC to drive it from the USB port.  My software supports it.  I plan to mount that along with a couple of bias-t's and maybe a decent step attenuator.   But then I think, I should really add some mixers and some better couplers and maybe a wide band amp......       Reality always steps in. 

The idea is that by reversing the two ports available with the very minimal differences possible, all four sets of S-parameters of a DUT become measurable.

(Thats what I meant by "four port" - I meant that the more VNA functionality is exploitable).

"While beta-testing his VNWA2.1 vector
network analyzer, Andreas Zimmermann,
DH7AZ, came up with a brilliant idea: He
took two RF relays and built a simple switch,
which could commutate the VNWA TX and
RX ports. (see refs below) Thus, a two port device wouldn't
have to be disconnected and turned manu-
ally any longer in order to measure its two
port S-parameters".

"Surprising to me, his first veroboard prototype already showed
good isolation values. Even more surprising
to me, the relay data sheet indicated that at
1.5 GHz, isolations of 60 dB could still be
expected. 2 That's when I decided to build
such a switching unit myself, and modify
my VNWA software so it would auto-
matically control the relays. This way, the
VNWA2 is turned into a full-featured two
port network analyzer. The most charming
aspect is the simplicity of the circuit, which
only requires two relays."

This is from the article "A Simple S-Parameter Test
Set for the VNWA2 Vector Network Analyzer" in
QEX May 2009 by Dr. Thomas C. Baier, DG8SAQ

References he cites:

1 Professor Dr. Thomas C. Baier, DG8SAQ,
"A Small, Simple, USB-Powered Vector
Network Analyzer Covering 1 kHz to 1.3
GHz," QEX, Jan/Feb 2009, ARRL, pp 32 -
36. See also www.arrl.org/qex/2009/01/
Baier.pdf
2 Omron G6Y Relay, see w w w . o m r o n . c o m /
ecb/products/pdf/en-g6y.pdf
3 See, for example, Agilent AN 1287-3,
"Applying Error Correction to Network
Analyzer Measurements," Application Note,
http://cp.literature.agilent.com/litweb/
pdf/5965-7709E.pdf
4 See www.mydarc.de/DG8SAQ/NWA.html
5 The VNWA software current as of the pub-
lication date of this article is available for
download from the ARRL QEX Web site. Go
to www.arrl.org/qexfiles and look for the
file 5x09_Baier.zip

----

There is a 3.3v version of the Omron relays.

[switchabl]

I've been meaning to try something like this, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I picked up an old HP 8711 K02 switching test set for that purpose, which is a essentially just a box with 4 N-connectors on the front and a couple of high-isolation RF relays inside. It's a big 19'' unit, so maybe not the most practical NanoVNA accessory, but it was cheaper than buying the relays separately (and as a bonus has two of those unobtainium HP probe power connectors as well).

The normal NanoVNA software doesn't support this measurement mode of course, but scikit-rf will do the 2-port corrections just fine.

The accuracy may be limited (apart from the switch repetability) by the unusal NanoVNA v2 architecture. The usual error model assumes that the load match on port 2 is the same for reflection and transmission measurements. But because there is only one receiver that is switched in for R and T measurements, this will not be the case, so the error correction will not be complete. It remains to be seen how bad this is in practice.

[cdev]

Your test set may be better than you think for this. But maybe not. I guess we'll see.

If I read you right, the fact that the software may already support something like it or be close perhaps very close to it, may not apply, because of architectural differences?

Caveat!
(You can see right here how I'm speculating way above my knowledge level here. Unfortunately, not rich, but having a lot of fun and learning new stuff every day. But making a huge mess, which I need to clean up today.).

Here is what the article says about error correction.

The guy who had this idea originally was Andreas Zimmermann DH7AZ, BTW.

Advantages of Using a Test Set,
Error Correction
The most obvious advantage of the test
set is the fact that two port devices can be
fully characterized without manually turning
them during the measurement. Thus, all four
S-parameters (S 11 , S 21 , S 12 , S 22 ) can
continuously be measured. This fact yields another,
less obvious, advantage: As discussed earlier
in this article, S 11 and S 21 can be deduced
from a forward direction measurement only
if the TX port impedance, Z S o u r c e , and the
RX port impedance Z L o a d , are both identical
to the reference impedance (usually 50 Q).

If this is not the case, some of the transmit-
ted signal, b 2 , is reflected at the RX port, is
retransmitted through the DUT and adds to
the reflected input signal, b 1 , which in turn
gets reflected at the TX port again. Thus,
in this case the results of the forward mea-
surement are influenced by all four DUT
S-parameters as signals travel through the
DUT in both directions. The same holds true
for the measurement in the reverse direction.
If both directions are continuously measured,
then the effects of non ideal source and load
impedances can be mathematically corrected
in an exact manner. This technique is known
as 12-term error correction. 3
Figure 7 shows the measured S 11 and
S22 of the through calibration standard. By
definition, both reflection coefficients of the
through standard are zero. Traces S 11 and
S22 show simply corrected results, which are
identical with the detector reflection coef-
ficient caused by Z Load ^ 50 Q. Note that the
detector match is better than 25 dB over the
displayed span, which is quite good. Mem1
and Mem2 show the same data 12-term cor-
rected. The effect of imperfect load match
has completely vanished and the measured
data is dominated by noise. The rising noise
floor to the high frequency side reflects the
decreasing available signal strength of the
instrument.
One should think that the effects of
12-term correction are generally small,
but they can become large if the measured
S-parameters are used in a system simula-
tion. Figure 8 shows transmission data of a
monolithic crystal filter measured with the
VNWA at a reference impedance of 50 Q
with various error correction schemes and
then recalculated to source and load imped-
ances of 3000 Q, which are the optimum fil-
ter matching conditions for a flat pass band.
Note that the simple error correction
scheme (trace S21) shows distinct spikes in
the filter pass band, while the 12-term cor-
rected result (Mem4) is as smooth as can be.
Also shown (see the QEX article graphics in prev post)
are two simple enhanced through
correction schemes (Traces Mem1: ETC1;
Mem2: ETC2), which only require measure-
ments in one direction. They partly take into
account non perfect matching conditions, but
they do neglect multiple reflections. ETC2
can be obtained from the 12-term equations
by setting S22 = 0 for the forward terms and
S u = 0 for the backward terms. ETC1 is
obtained from ETC2 by setting the detector
impedance equal to the reference impedance
(usually 50 Q). The ETC corrections are bet-
ter than the simple one, but worse than the
12-term correction.

-----

(source: May-June 2009 QEX, article "A Simple S-Parameter Test
Set for the VNWA2 Vector Network Analyzer"
by Thomas C. Baier, DG8SAQ, (developer of the VNWA
describing Andreas Zimmermann (DH7AZ)'s innovative relay box idea.)

I've been meaning to try something like this, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I picked up an old HP 8711 K02 switching test set for that purpose, which is a essentially just a box with 4 N-connectors on the front and a couple of high-isolation RF relays inside. It's a big 19'' unit, so maybe not the most practical NanoVNA accessory, but it was cheaper than buying the relays separately (and as a bonus has two of those unobtainium HP probe power connectors as well).

The normal NanoVNA software doesn't support this measurement mode of course, but scikit-rf will do the 2-port corrections just fine.

The accuracy may be limited (apart from the switch repetability) by the unusal NanoVNA v2 architecture. The usual error model assumes that the load match on port 2 is the same for reflection and transmission measurements. But because there is only one receiver that is switched in for R and T measurements, this will not be the case, so the error correction will not be complete. It remains to be seen how bad this is in practice.

[switchabl]

Well, to my knowledge there is no software support in the popular NanoVNA QT and NanoVNA-saver for this kind of measurement. But I do most of my analysis in Python and there is a great package called scikit-rf that takes care of most of the math and has support for the kind of error correction described in the article you quote already (they call it two-port-one-path calibration). I have done some mildly promising tests where I switched the ports manually already.

The single-receiver architecture of the NanoVNA v2 is a separate issue. You would normally hope for the switching-approach to give error-correction performance similar to a true 2-port VNA, but that may or may not be true for the Nano. The reason is that the 12-term error model the algorithm is based on makes some assumptions that are no longer fully valid in our case. I am sure that the performance will still be improved over a normal transmission/reflection measurement, but to what extent remains to be seen.

Anyway, of course I'm not hoping to do metrology with the NanoVNA, I am just curious how far you can push it and where the limitations are. I see that @joeqsmith has already a lot of testing in the meantime, and I think "suprisingly useful up to 2-3GHz, horrible above" is probably a fair summary (that also matches my own experience). But I am still looking for a more quantitative picture, so the plan is to test drift, noise, linearity, corrected system performance etc. systematically - essentially everything you'd expect to find in the spec sheet of a proper VNA. The point is both to have actual estimates for your measurement uncertainties and to explore areas to improve as well as conceptual limitations. E.g. does it actually make sense to have a switching testset as an accessory (or built into a future version).

I think I have most of the things I need by now, the switching test-set, a 3.5mm precision airline, 3.5mm reference attenuator, precision step attenuator and so on. But unfortunately I have been busy with other things and it takes some time to do this properly. So it may be a while before I have anything definite to show.

[joeqsmith]

The author of the article uses a shielded box partition with a wall between them for isolation, so it could easily double the size of the nanoVNA, so the idea of an external add on for bench use makes more sense I think. See the second graphic below.

This would be a useful add on for the many of us with these small VNAs.

It could also be incorporated into a nanoVNA case. If it was permanently there, it would make sense to calibrate the vna for its presence permanently and add its presence to the FW. People could plug the calibration into the routines. Not very difficult. That would eliminate another source of error.

...

I think its possible to use relays to extend the functionality of a two port VNA to make an effective four port VNA too. (Or so I read in QEX a while ago)

Joe, the same relays are used as the tiny low voltage Omron ones you use in your switch box.

I think those were $10-$20 each.  They work alright but the isolation was poor.   I have an old Transco relay that I made up a really crappy DC-DC to drive it from the USB port.  My software supports it.  I plan to mount that along with a couple of bias-t's and maybe a decent step attenuator.   But then I think, I should really add some mixers and some better couplers and maybe a wide band amp......       Reality always steps in. 

The idea is that by reversing the two ports available with the very minimal differences possible, all four sets of S-parameters of a DUT become measurable.

(Thats what I meant by "four port" - I meant that the more VNA functionality is exploitable).

....

There is a 3.3v version of the Omron relays.

Yes, they have a few different coil voltages to choose from. 

It's still a 2-port system.     There are 4-port and more VNAs.   This technique of using a transfer relay is very old. Even my 1970's HP uses this technique.   

These are the two I made.  Again, performance was poor but the Omron relays were good enough to demo them. 
https://youtu.be/GJNMnq8eD0E?list=PLZSS2ajxhiQD2gftdurGQoyGpUM_HobNI&t=2047

[Mechatrommer]

I think its possible to use relays to extend the functionality of a two port VNA to make an effective four port VNA too. (Or so I read in QEX a while ago)

The idea is that by reversing the two ports available with the very minimal differences possible, all four sets of S-parameters of a DUT become measurable.

to measure all four sets of s-parm, you need full 2-ports VNA (to generate full s2p file), NanoVNA is not full 2-port.. is called TRL VNA iirc... ie cant measure S22 and S12 directly.. for such architecture like Nano, you'll need a  s-parm test set as you mentioned using relays to switch DUT's port automatically between port 1 and 2 to enable TRL VNA type to measure full 4 s-parm. but FW need to support it, unfortunately NanoVNA's FW doesnt. so you need to switch relays manually, or unwrench-rotate dut-wrench manually, save s1ps manually, and then photoshop the s1p -> s2p manually. 4-port or more VNA (s4p s5p ... ) is far far away from our league, and see very little to no usage in hobby arena, which usually dealt with making antenna (1 port device) or filter (2 port, only forward gain (S21) is relevant).

[switchabl]

The principle can be extended to 4 (or more) ports with more relays. Agilent did a 12-port switcher for the 871x series: https://www.keysight.com/en/pd-1000002217%3Aepsg%3Apro-pn-87050E/multiport-test-set-50-ohm?cc=US&lc=eng
Calibration does gets quite cumbersome really quick though because for full calibration you would have to calibrate each pair of ports (e.g. 4 ports: 4x SOL calibration + 12x thru calibration = 24 connections).

If you need more ports only occasionally, you can measure an N-port with a 2-port VNA by measuring all pairs and terminating the others with 50ohm loads (those don't have to be perfect, just known). Then you can calculate the full N-port parameters. Not quite as accurate and not nearly as convenient of course.

Apart from the obvious (couplers, splitters, hybrids), maybe the most intersting application of 4-port VNAs is for measuring balanced networks. For instance you can measure a differential transmission line as a 4-port, convert to common/differential-mode S-parameters and then simulate an eye-diagram from that. But I agree that most NanoVNA users would probably rather have e.g. power sweeps for amplifier measurements than a 4-port version.

[joeqsmith]

If I could afford a 4-port or more, I think I would also invest in an ecal for it.   The only time I have thought it may have been nice for home use was to look at some home made mixers and couplers.   There was a 3-port 8753 for sale a while back with the test set built in.  I've never seen one.  They were asking  around $5K.  Sold fairly quickly.   

If you wanted to use a transfer relay with the Nano, I would expect you could use a PC to drive it.  No real need for firmware changes but the software would need to support it.  Maybe the newer opensource software does.

[cdev]

One thing that I would like to understand better is when you have a need to phase shift a broad range of frequencies 90 degrees consistently. Of course if its just a single frequency, you can use a quarter wave piece of ideally higher impedance coax, for example, this works great to make a turnstile antenna for a single frequency.

But making a broadband four armed log spiral or pinwheel antenna, to get highly accurate multi-GNSS constellation positioning, requires a broadband 90 degree hybrid. Similarly with some other fairly easy to make designs. Apparently, the hybrid can be integrated into the design of the antenna and fabricated on PCB. But that's where the black magic begins and mortals like I who cant afford even the cheapest GUIfied antenna design software and struggle with understanding the math involved hit the wall, so to speak.

The nanoVNA is great because you can literally just see whats happening, and bring it with you to in my case my kitchen table, which is where I do most of my antenna experiments these days.  (usually small antennas)

It still is pretty useful in this setting for figuring out how they work.

Maybe someday soon true four port VNAs will undergo some similar value for money transition.

Who was it who said "the impossible takes a little longer"?

If I could afford a 4-port or more, I think I would also invest in an ecal for it.   The only time I have thought it may have been nice for home use was to look at some home made mixers and couplers.   There was a 3-port 8753 for sale a while back with the test set built in.  I've never seen one.  They were asking  around $5K.  Sold fairly quickly.   

If you wanted to use a transfer relay with the Nano, I would expect you could use a PC to drive it.  No real need for firmware changes but the software would need to support it.  Maybe the newer opensource software does.

A Raspberry Pi or some similar, cheap SBC with a healthy number of GPIOs would be a great platform for controlling and interacting with a VNA, particularly doing fun interesting visualizations with its output like you do with your software.

[joeqsmith]

Having your own software that interfaces with the Nano as well as a some simple I/O would be very powerful.   I'm interested in seeing what ever experiments you come up.   

There was a study done at CERN that I have been meaning to replicate for the fun of it.  I have the parts and made up a test jig for it but haven't made the time to run it yet.   
http://jeroen.web.cern.ch/jeroen/resistor/shuntC.html

[RomanWorkshop]

Is it possible to use 4" TFT touch display with ILI9488 driver instead of ST7796?

[rfclown]

To measure PCB trace impedance, better make through fixture for S21 measurements like shown here. Your S11 results show impossible - line impedance wandering between 25 and 200 Ohms. Do you know why?

It's easier to use S11 for measuring impedance than to use S21. I have some of those PCBs shown in your link, and they aren't 50 ohms. They're close enough for many uses < 2 GHz, but I wouldn't use them for characterizing components.

[edit: I take back the "aren't 50 ohms". I was remembering that they weren't good > 2 GHz, so I assumed it was impedance. It may be the cheap connectors. I brought one home from work and just measured it. It looks good, like about 48 ohms, up to 1.5 GHz, but then it goes south. A guy on eBay sells these, and they are handy... but not good for high frequency.]

I'll illustrate with a microstrip PCB that's close to 50 ohms, but not quite. If a transmission line is not terminated with its characteristic impedance, then it will act as a transformer. I'm measuring S11 of the microstrip PCB with a 50 ohm termination on the end. Since the line isn't quite 50 ohms, the line transforms the 50 ohm termination impedance to 42 ohms at 300 MHz. To do a sanity check, the board measures 126mm, which for a dielectric constant of 4 (FR4) would be a quarter wavelength at 298 MHz. The microstrip line impedance is then the geometic mean sqrt(42*50)=45.8 ohm.

Another way is to do a broadband measurement and then do an IFFT of the result, which is what the TDR math function of a VNA does. Again, this is an S11, not an S21 measurement.

[DiSlord]

The only real problem I saw when putting the plastic case that came with the V2+ together was the switches were not installed flat into the PCB.  The would interfere with the holes.   Quick touch of the iron.  Worse part is having to align the spacers when placing the covers.  They tend to move.   Extra spacers and screw were included.  I suspect people would loose them.   I left off the rubber O-ring.   

Flipper had printed a case for my original Nano.  I added a slot for the development connector.

I made case for V2 vs 4` screen and print it

Contain box for calibration kit
Allow store stylus inside
Power on switch move to top
Models avaible on
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4727705

[AE7OO]

Greetings,

I have the "Black and Gold" clone I got on sale from Amazon.
Attached is a screenshot from VNA-QT.  1010 data points.

I've done a SOL cal on port 0.
port 0 has the 50 ohm load attached.
port 1 is open.
Both ports have a port saver attached.

How does it look?  In other words, was it worth about $55, or did I get taken?

[thinkfat]

To measure PCB trace impedance, better make through fixture for S21 measurements like shown here. Your S11 results show impossible - line impedance wandering between 25 and 200 Ohms. Do you know why?

It's easier to use S11 for measuring impedance than to use S21. I have some of those PCBs shown in your link, and they aren't 50 ohms. They're close enough for many uses < 2 GHz, but I wouldn't use them for characterizing components.

I'm guessing it depends a lot on how close to 50 Ohms port 2 of the VNA is. Port 1 "sees" the impedance of port 2 transformed by the transmission line (which is also not exactly 50 Ohms), so if you want to measure your transmission line it's probably better to terminate it with a known-good load and only look at the reflected energy.

[xzswq21]

I have a NanoVNA v2.2 with 2.8 inch screen size, can I buy a 4 inch TFT LCD for the NanoVNA and use it? after upgrading can I use the tact buttons?

[cdev]

Recently, Ive started to see premade modules embedding RF switch chips becoming available in the usual sources. Since we're talking about switching, one good example is a 8 way (HMC253 8PST) switch I keep seeing around.

It implements a octodirectional connection. I am thinking about getting one to use for rapid comparative testing of antennas. Also maybe try a pseudo-doppler direction finding antenna.

One can use four identical whip antennas. 

Anyway, of course, I am also speculating that this might offer some advantages with computer controlled analysis with my nanovna if the response was flat enough. (as opposed to relays) I don't know. they seem to have a lot of loss. But no moving arts.

The switches on ebay use HMB series chips..
appear to be analog devices parts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HMC253-DC-2-5-GHz-RF-Single-pole-Eight-throw-Switch-RF-Switch-Selection-Antenna/274646042226

But there are lots more of them.

https://www.analog.com/en/parametricsearch/10723#

For HF it might be possible to just use pin diodes. (or even 1n4007's)  ?? (for the ghetto version!)

If I could afford a 4-port or more, I think I would also invest in an ecal for it.   The only time I have thought it may have been nice for home use was to look at some home made mixers and couplers.   There was a 3-port 8753 for sale a while back with the test set built in.  I've never seen one.  They were asking  around $5K.  Sold fairly quickly.   

If you wanted to use a transfer relay with the Nano, I would expect you could use a PC to drive it.  No real need for firmware changes but the software would need to support it.  Maybe the newer opensource software does.

[DiSlord]

I have a NanoVNA v2.2 with 2.8 inch screen size, can I buy a 4 inch TFT LCD for the NanoVNA and use it? after upgrading can I use the tact buttons?

See this post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/nanovna-v2-aka-s-a-a-2/msg3420062/#msg3420062
On it i put in case my test board (on it i test 4 inch display code support, V2 and 4 inch display module provided by owo)

Need just replace old LCD module on new 4 inch (but on new moduleneed remove SD card slot, since it will rest against the RF connectors)

[edigi]

I have a NanoVNA v2.2 with 2.8 inch screen size, can I buy a 4 inch TFT LCD for the NanoVNA and use it? after upgrading can I use the tact buttons?

I went also a bit further and designed and 3D printed a case for the V2 after upgrading to the 4 inch LCD (this is different from what DiSlord designed).
I'm still not quite happy with the result as both the buttons and the on/off switch get to an awkward place after the LCD upgrade.
Both remain usable but it's uncomfortable to access them as they are too deep behind the big LCD (the buttons even between the SMA that I didn't like even with the original LCD).
I haven't had time recently to think more about how it could be improved without modding the electronics but I've still not abandoned this plan.

[mcsarge]

Any tips on mounting the battery in the cavity?

I have designed a case for the NanoVNA V2. It has space for a 18650 cell, stores the stylus and has a lanyard attachment point. It is held together with 4 2.5mm countersunk screws on the bottom. Enjoy!
Edit: I just learnt that the 4 LED's on the bottom show the state of charge. Easiest would be to print the case (or at least the bottom half) out of translucent plastic. Another alternative may be to drill some holes into the side. Let's see what else we can come up with?

[ch_scr]

I just put it in with a strip of 0.2" foam to prevent it from ratteling around.

[rfclown]

I just got a NanoVNA V2 S-A-A-2. So far so good. I want to read the measured data (not control the unit) from the serial port. I tried nanovna-saver, but it just gave a black wiindow on my Win 10 machine. vna_qt runs, but I don't see how to make it save data (and I don't want to control the unit. just measure manually, and get results on my computer.

From https://nanorfe.com/nanovna-v2-user-manual.html I was able to read the FIFO data and get the S parameters. LabVIEW code to convert the string I read by sending 0x18 0x30 0x64 (read 100 FIFO elements) into S parameters is shown in attachment. What I see matches the display.

What I can't figure is how to read the frequency parameters. Addresses 0-0x23 always read 0. Seems these are write only. How can one read the frequency parameters?

my firmware says git-20200308-39438ba

... edit ... ugh! I just read that the valuesFIFO is uncorrected data.  I really didn't want to get into much software; just read corrected data.

... more edit ... updated firmware to 20200619, and I can use nanovna-saver now. tried 20201013 (latest release) but my unit was really unhappy with that. Didn't see the .bin file for 20200926. What I got going I don't like, but it worked. Cal unit, connect to nanovna-saver, enter sweep (because I guess it can't read what sweep the unit has), measure, save touchstone, but when I disconnect COM port the unit resets. I need to learn to work in nanovna-saver I guess.

... more edit ... found 20200926 binaries here: https://nanorfe.com/downloads/20200926/
my unit doesn't like 20201122 either. If all is well with 0926, it will be the version for me.

[joeqsmith]

I both the original NanoVNA and the two V2Plus VNAs.   I doubt I can be much help outside of suggesting you look at the open source software.   

On the original NanoVNA, I request the frequencies.   It could send corrected data, assuming you are referring to having the Nano use the SOLT coefficients.   I normally have it send uncorrected data and use the PC to store and apply the coefficients.
 
The Plus always sends uncorrected data.  You tell it the frequency range, you don't ask for it.  IMO, the Plus is much better to run headless.   It's decoupled to the point that that LCD, touchscreen and buttons are worthless.   Everything is handled by the PC. 

I doubt my software will support your Nano but you are certainly free to try it.

[dazz1]

Hi
The NanoVNA V2 looks like a great piece of test equipment.  I am surprised to see plastic enclosures with an LCD display over the top of the PCB. Typically I am used to seeing lots of shielding to keep out interference (eg USB) and other noise.

Firstly, is the NanoVNA performance affected by external noise? (where external is defined as outside the signal processing circuitry)  If the NanoVNA is not susceptible to external noise, then shielding would be nugatory. 

If shielding is added, it needs to be engineered as part of the circuit design.  Good shielding is often metal based (tin, copper, aluminium, silver) and these act as a mirror for RF.  If a noise source is placed inside a perfect shield, the amplitude within the shielding can high if the shielding and cavity Q is high.    This can be fixed by adding an RF attenuator inside the shield.  I use lots of cheap ferrite beads glued to the interior surface of the shield.  They soak up RF energy.  Examples can be seen in the attachments.  Shielding applied to a RF in-line amplifier.

Has anyone tried this with the NanoVNA? 
Would there be any benefit from fitting low Q shielding??

[cdev]

I have had the same experience with LNAs. either you use a good shield, well grounded at the points bwhere cables go through or no shieding. Half assed shielding often creates problems from stray resonances.
My nanoVNA is flat to a bit over 3GHz, and there are some small bumps between 3 and 4.4 GHz. Not big ones. I use good quality cables.

[rfclown]

I've got something wanky going on with my NanoVNA S-A-A-2 when I plug in a USB cable. Picture noUSB.JPG shows a highpass filter. When I plug in the USB cable (usb.JPG) there is a thing going on at 3.88 GHz. Without USB connected, and doing a good cal, measurements seem to correlate with my HP VNAs. If I could read the data, then I could show you how well they correlate, but I can't. I just got this thing, and I find it frustrating that I can't make a measurement, then plug in a USB and read the data. It reads the uncorrected data. Why, why, why?  The software that's written (all that I've seen) want you to set up the measurement with the software if you want to save the data. But plugging in a USB adds crap to the unit's operation (at least mine, with this computer).

[gf]

My understanding is that the USB data are generally not subject to the calibration which was done in the firmware, but a PC appplication has to handle all the calibration stuff itself at application level. Both, the NanoVNA Saver and the NanoVNA-Qt app obviously do that. I.e. you calibrate in the application, and then you do the measurements in the application, and the error terms calculated by the application are not shared with the fimware (and vice versa).

EDIT: My NanoVNA even reboots quite frequenty upon connecting/disconnecting USB while the NanoVNA is turned.

[cdev]

I've got something wanky going on with my NanoVNA S-A-A-2 when I plug in a USB cable. Picture noUSB.JPG shows a highpass filter. When I plug in the USB cable (usb.JPG) there is a thing going on at 3.88 GHz. Without USB connected, and doing a good cal, measurements seem to correlate with my HP VNAs. If I could read the data, then I could show you how well they correlate, but I can't. I just got this thing, and I find it frustrating that I can't make a measurement, then plug in a USB and read the data. It reads the uncorrected data. Why, why, why?  The software that's written (all that I've seen) want you to set up the measurement with the software if you want to save the data. But plugging in a USB adds crap to the unit's operation (at least mine, with this computer).

Between 3 and 4.5 GHz there are some peaks. See if the lump you see maps to one of them. It probably does. Thats why you calibrate your VNA, to remove the effects resonances, cable lengths etc. have.

Its always best to save the raw data in its original form, otherwise various rounding errors, and approximations add up. But the way a VNA works does a good job of compensating for the usual discontinuities in the Force, so to speak, when they lie after the calibration plane. .

[rfclown]

...
Its always best to save the raw data in its original form, otherwise various rounding errors, and approximations add up.

Normally in a measurement instrument, what is displayed is corrected data, and that is what you record. I don't know of any of my instruments (power meters, spectrum analyzers, VNAs, DMMs, vector signal analyzers, modulation analyzer, oscilloscopes) for which I'm interested in reading and saving uncorrected data. I'm disappointed that I can't get to the corrected data that I see on the NanoVNA display, and that if I plug in USB to use one of the software tools I see issues with USB interference. It is going to take some work (either hardware or software) to be able to save good corrected NanoVNA data. Right now I can't (without having USB interference).

[cdev]

ask user @joeeqsmith , he is working on custom labview compatible software for the nanovna2. Chances are he's dealt with the exact same problem you have.

[cdev]

When you plug it into the PC it switches to PC mode. SO likely there is a script which runs then to launch the proper changes, load the proper modules, etc. Mine starts behaving a bit strangely when its plugged into USB too. it sweeps continually, over and over. It draws the smith chart .

If I launch the software manually as root it works fine. If its not running as superuser, I get a screen with blank places that don't work properly.

.

My understanding is that the USB data are generally not subject to the calibration which was done in the firmware, but a PC appplication has to handle all the calibration stuff itself at application level. Both, the NanoVNA Saver and the NanoVNA-Qt app obviously do that. I.e. you calibrate in the application, and then you do the measurements in the application, and the error terms calculated by the application are not shared with the fimware (and vice versa).

EDIT: My NanoVNA even reboots quite frequenty upon connecting/disconnecting USB while the NanoVNA is turned.

[gf]

It always sweeps continuously, regardless whether running standalone or controlled from PC software.
Indeed, when the PC software connects to the NanoVNA, the display gets black and shows "USB MODE". Standalone operation is no longer possible then.
(At least this applies to the V2. I don't know wheter it also applies to the original NanoVNA)

On Linux there is a permission problem with ttyACM0:

$ ls -l /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Mär 22 23:59 /dev/ttyACM0

So in order to get access to the USB serial port, your user ID needs to belong to the group dialout (or you need to run NanoVNA-Saver/NanoVNA-QT as root).
Alternatively, it were certainly possible to configure some udev rules which assign 0666 permissions to /dev/ttyACM0, but I did not spend time to figure out how to do that exactly.

[joeqsmith]

I've got something wanky going on with my NanoVNA S-A-A-2 when I plug in a USB cable. Picture noUSB.JPG shows a highpass filter. When I plug in the USB cable (usb.JPG) there is a thing going on at 3.88 GHz. Without USB connected, and doing a good cal, measurements seem to correlate with my HP VNAs. If I could read the data, then I could show you how well they correlate, but I can't. I just got this thing, and I find it frustrating that I can't make a measurement, then plug in a USB and read the data. It reads the uncorrected data. Why, why, why? The software that's written (all that I've seen) want you to set up the measurement with the software if you want to save the data. But plugging in a USB adds crap to the unit's operation (at least mine, with this computer).

ask user @joeeqsmith , he is working on custom labview compatible software for the nanovna2. Chances are he's dealt with the exact same problem you have.

Sorry, I don't have any information on the S-A-A-2.   There are some good groups for the Nano.  Maybe there is one specific to the model you have.  I suggest joining them.   

...
Its always best to save the raw data in its original form, otherwise various rounding errors, and approximations add up.

Normally in a measurement instrument, what is displayed is corrected data, and that is what you record. I don't know of any of my instruments (power meters, spectrum analyzers, VNAs, DMMs, vector signal analyzers, modulation analyzer, oscilloscopes) for which I'm interested in reading and saving uncorrected data. I'm disappointed that I can't get to the corrected data that I see on the NanoVNA display, and that if I plug in USB to use one of the software tools I see issues with USB interference. It is going to take some work (either hardware or software) to be able to save good corrected NanoVNA data. Right now I can't (without having USB interference).

That last sentence makes me wonder, how do you plan to save data from the S-A-A-2 without using USB?  Do you have the slot for a memory card or some other means?   I just use the USB and PC.   

In the case of the V2Plus/4 once you connect to the USB port, everything is uncorrected.  It's up to the software to do the heavy lifting.   At that time, the display, buttons, touchscreen are all disabled.   Your S-A-A-2 sounds more like the original NanoVNA I have.   The peripherals all remain enabled and you can send corrected data if you want.

[gf]

In the case of the V2Plus/4 once you connect to the USB port, everything is uncorrected.  It's up to the software to do the heavy lifting.   At that time, the display, buttons, touchscreen are all disabled.   Your S-A-A-2 sounds more like the original NanoVNA I have.   The peripherals all remain enabled and you can send corrected data if you want.

Mine is a V2_2 (likely a Chinese clone, though). On the case it is labeled "S-A-A V2".
Everything gets disabled as well, when a PC app connects via USB to the device.
Firmware for my V2_2 is IMO the same as for the Plus4 model - just compiled with different options.
[ I did compile the latest version of the firmware source code from GitHub for my Nano and it seems works fine. ]

[dougg]

On Linux there is a permission problem with ttyACM0:

$ ls -l /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Mär 22 23:59 /dev/ttyACM0

So in order to get access to the USB serial port, your user ID needs to belong to the group dialout (or you need to run NanoVNA-Saver/NanoVNA-QT as root).
Alternatively, it were certainly possible to configure some udev rules which assign 0666 permissions to /dev/ttyACM0, but I did not spend time to figure out how to do that exactly.

Stay away from udev rules if you can. The simple way, is to edit /etc/group (as root) and add your user name to the dialout line:

dialout:x:20:dougg

The terminal you are in then needs to be restarted to pick that up. The "id" command will show the groups that the current user belongs to.
Many user access to devices issues can be fixed with this technique.

[cdev]

Strange but I was already in the dialout group (and had this problem) and it was nanovna-saver not nanovna_qt that works without my having to become a superuser to run it.

On Linux there is a permission problem with ttyACM0:

$ ls -l /dev/ttyACM0
crw-rw---- 1 root dialout 166, 0 Mär 22 23:59 /dev/ttyACM0

So in order to get access to the USB serial port, your user ID needs to belong to the group dialout (or you need to run NanoVNA-Saver/NanoVNA-QT as root).
Alternatively, it were certainly possible to configure some udev rules which assign 0666 permissions to /dev/ttyACM0, but I did not spend time to figure out how to do that exactly.

Stay away from udev rules if you can. The simple way, is to edit /etc/group (as root) and add your user name to the dialout line:

dialout:x:20:dougg

The terminal you are in then needs to be restarted to pick that up. The "id" command will show the groups that the current user belongs to.
Many user access to devices issues can be fixed with this technique.

[rfclown]

... That last sentence makes me wonder, how do you plan to save data from the S-A-A-2 without using USB? ...

I don't know yet. When I bought this thing I wasn't planning on it being a project. I don't have time (or need) for this project right now.

Solutions would be either:
1. figure out USB interference, fix it, and use nanovna-saver
2. modify firmware to let me stop sweep, then plug in USB and get corrected data

[cdev]

An easy and informative way to save captured data quickly is to just take a screenshot of the appropriate output.

Most of the data files contain array structures like CSV or JSON so they are easy to convert from one form to another.

They probably can be copied and pasted into a spreadsheet or text editor to get the data out..

[gf]

An easy and informative way to save captured data quickly is to just take a screenshot of the appropriate output.

So far, I did not pay attention to nanovna.py. Playing around with this script I noticed that it is possible to grab screenshots from the NanoVNA over USB (nanovna.py -C screenshot.png), without entering USB measurement mode (where the display turns black, and buttons and touchscreen are disabled).

[rfclown]

An easy and informative way to save captured data quickly is to just take a screenshot of the appropriate output.

So far, I did not pay attention to nanovna.py. Playing around with this script I noticed that it is possible to grab screenshots from the NanoVNA over USB (nanovna.py -C screenshot.png), without entering USB measurement mode (where the display turns black, and buttons and touchscreen are disabled).

This looks interesting. I don't do Python, but I just tried downloading it on my Windows 10 machine. Following the Readme.md file, I did the pip3 install -r requirements.txt. So far so good. upgraded pip because it suggested so. When I try the first example "nanovna.py -p" I get:

C:\nanoVNA\python>nanovna.py -p
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "C:\nanoVNA\python\nanovna.py", line 2, in <module>
    import serial, tty
  File "C:\Users\TD\AppData\Local\Programs\Python\Python39\lib\tty.py", line 5, in <module>
    from termios import *
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'termios'

I assume it's because I'm not in linux, and the "tty" isn't associated with my COM port. Or is it because I needed to install another module (termios)? Perused the nanovna.py file, but it's not obvious how to edit this for a Windows COM port. Maybe I need to edit the VIDPIDs? Looks like it's supposed to find the COM port automatically.

When one of my kids had a python class in school a few years ago, I got the book and thought I'd learn along with him. I realized that I'd rather gnaw my arm off than use python (no offense to anyone here who likes python).

The image capture code has:
        self.serial.write([0x20, 0xee, 0x00])
        meta = self.serial.read(2 + 2 + 1)
       
which is writing 0 to register ee, which I don't see specified in the User Manual. The read (0x20) command isn't supposed to return anything, so I don't know what the self.serial.read(2+2+1) is supposed to be doing.

When I send 0x20 0xee 0x00 in a terminal program, it doesn't respond with anything (like the User Manual says). i have 20200926 firmware

[gf]

Yes, "termios" is a Unix (POSIX) specific interface.
Register 0xee is indeed not documented, but at least in the latest revision of the firmware in Git it is obviously implemented in main2.cpp. Here you can also see the data format sent back.

Code: [Select]

static void cmdRegisterWrite(int address) {
        if(address == 0xee) {
                usbCaptureMode = true;
#pragma pack(push, 1)
                constexpr struct {
                        uint16_t width;
                        uint16_t height;
                        uint8_t pixelFormat;
                } meta = { LCD_WIDTH, LCD_HEIGHT, 16 };
#pragma pack(pop)
                serial.print((char*) &meta, sizeof(meta));

                // use uint16_t ili9341_spi_buffers for read buffer
                static_assert(meta.width * 2 <= sizeof(ili9341_spi_buffers));
                for (int y=0; y < meta.height; y+=1){
                        ili9341_read_memory(0, y, meta.width, 1, ili9341_spi_buffers);
                        serial.print((char*) ili9341_spi_buffers, meta.width * 2 * 1);
                }

                usbCaptureMode = false;
                return;
        }

        [...]