New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[lpc32]

Noisy enough to be audible in a quiet lab on my DS1074Z. Much noisier than my laptop or computer.

Does the internal temperature warrant this?

[LaurentR]

Noisy enough to be audible in a quiet lab on my DS1074Z. Much noisier than my laptop or computer.

Does the internal temperature warrant this?

Hard to say. The fan is speed-controlled, likely from some internal temperature.

The usual issue with noise on these fans is that, just like on PCs:
* Fans don't do anything for specs, so they use fans that are reliable but cheap, so they the losing part of the trade-off is noise.
* The fan is smaller (cost), so much noisier (speed) than a larger fan with no easy option to replace it by something larger/slower.

In the case of the DS1000Z, the fan is 50mm and runs pretty fast. It's an uncommon size (for a PC fan), and with the high CFM spec, it's hard to find a good replacement that moves enough air and is quiet. I ended up picking up a Gelid Silent 5, which is substantially quieter, but still clearly audible. It's the only "quiet" 50mm fan I found that moves close to the right amount of air.

Laurent

[marmad]

Perhaps someone that owns the DSO (or ANY model of the DS1000Z series) can check and report exactly what the DSO is doing in terms of interpolation at lower sample rates with 1 or 2 channels on? If Rigol reused their code from the DS2000 series, it should be automatically switching from sin(x)/x to linear at 200M or 500MSas/s.

As I showed in this post, it's easy to check.

[pa3bca]

Like this?

[marmad]

Like this?

Yes! Thanks for confirming the AUTO sin(x)/x - linear interpolation switching.

[Magnum]

Noisy enough to be audible in a quiet lab on my DS1074Z. Much noisier than my laptop or computer.

Does the internal temperature warrant this?

Hard to say. The fan is speed-controlled, likely from some internal temperature.

The usual issue with noise on these fans is that, just like on PCs:
* Fans don't do anything for specs, so they use fans that are reliable but cheap, so they the losing part of the trade-off is noise.
* The fan is smaller (cost), so much noisier (speed) than a larger fan with no easy option to replace it by something larger/slower.

In the case of the DS1000Z, the fan is 50mm and runs pretty fast. It's an uncommon size (for a PC fan), and with the high CFM spec, it's hard to find a good replacement that moves enough air and is quiet. I ended up picking up a Gelid Silent 5, which is substantially quieter, but still clearly audible. It's the only "quiet" 50mm fan I found that moves close to the right amount of air.

Laurent

What specification does the original fan have? 13CFM?

[sweesiong78]

first impression..... its TINY!

[alank2]

Darn UPS guy.  After waiting ALL day he tries to deliver it to my neighbor!  Finally got it in my hands at 8:45pm.

fall time of tactile button tied to 5vdc via 1k other side grounded
CH1 1V, offset -1.84V, 5ns timebase
rp1300 probe used for all of it in 10x mode

ds2072/300/hw 1.0.1.0.0      1.150ns fall time
ds2072/300/hw 1.0.2.0.2      1.050ns fall time
ds1074z/stock/hw 0.1.1         1.900ns fall time
ds1074z/100/hw 0.1.1         1.500ns fall time

ds1074z/100/hw 0.1.1         1.600ns-1.700ns fall time (RP2200)

[LaurentR]

What specification does the original fan have? 13CFM?

The fan is a Sunon ME50151V3-000C-A99
DC12V - 0.78W

A datasheet I found says:
12.9CFM
0.14 in H2O
4900RPM
30.1 dBA

The Gelid Silent 5 is:
12.9CFM
2.8mmAq (= 0.11 in H2O I assume)
4000RPM
23dBA

A pretty good match. Same CFM, slightly lower static pressure. My experience is that at low voltage it seems to be moving less air, but at 12V, it feels about the same.
The Gelid comes with a standard PC 3-pin connector. I bought myself the same 2-pin connector the Rigol uses and spliced it (so that I can put back the stock fan if I need to sell the scope or send it to warranty).

For such a high-RPM fan, the Gelid is pretty quiet. Not silent, but quiet.

[alank2]

It seems to bootup faster than the ds1074z I tried with the original firmware version, 22 seconds or so and I recall the original was 30ish.

The load/save doesn't load/save the measurements still.

It is one heck of a scope for $375 though, build quality seems a little higher to me now, knobs feel nicer, but I'm not sure.

It is nice to see 4 traces on the screen, you can't beat 4 channels.

I wonder how they change the bandwidth between models though, clearly my results above showed it better off in the 100 mode, but the teardown I saw on youtube didn't show a chip like the amplifier in the ds2000 series...

[lpc32]

The usual issue with noise on these fans is that, just like on PCs:
* Fans don't do anything for specs, so they use fans that are reliable but cheap, so they the losing part of the trade-off is noise.
* The fan is smaller (cost), so much noisier (speed) than a larger fan with no easy option to replace it by something larger/slower.

In the case of the DS1000Z, the fan is 50mm and runs pretty fast.

They could add to the specs an extra bullet: "silent operation". The price difference between a 5cm and an 8cm isn't much, and it might result in better cooling at 1/4 the speed.

I wonder if it's mainly for the ADCs, and if so, what might be the result of higher temperatures.

[dentaku]

Is there enough room in there for an 8cm fan?

[hammy]

For such a high-RPM fan, the Gelid is pretty quiet. Not silent, but quiet.

Also a good match: Fractal Design FD-FAN-SSR2-50 R2
    Speed: 3500 +/- 10%
    Max. airflow (CFM): 7.64
    Max. pressure (mm H2O): 1.74
    Noise level (dBA): 20.0

Cheers
hammy

[LaurentR]

Is there enough room in there for an 8cm fan?

I should have taken a picture. The fan is stuck between two sheets of metal with no extra room. I don't think you can even fit a 60mm there. You'd need to rework the sheet metal to change the fan size.

[alank2]

When my house is quieter in a few hours, I've got a radio shack sound meter I can use to measure the difference between a DS2072 and the DS1054Z...

[marmad]

I should have taken a picture. The fan is stuck between two sheets of metal with no extra room. I don't think you can even fit a 60mm there. You'd need to rework the sheet metal to change the fan size.

I have a simpler, no-cost, and no-labor method for blocking fan noise: play music 

[Mandelbrot]

I should have taken a picture. The fan is stuck between two sheets of metal with no extra room. I don't think you can even fit a 60mm there. You'd need to rework the sheet metal to change the fan size.

I have a simpler, no-cost, and no-labor method for blocking fan noise: play music 

Or run an HP3325 or some other loud equipment at the same time to drown it out.

[soren]

Noisy enough to be audible in a quiet lab on my DS1074Z. Much noisier than my laptop or computer.

Does the internal temperature warrant this?

I won't get my DS1054Z until tomorrow, but on my old Siglent SDS1022DL I simply removed the fan as it was completely unnecessary. The hottest parts were the PSU voltage regulators, which got up to about 60 degC. Nothing on the main board was more than 5 degrees above ambient.

Looking at teardown photos of the Rigol, the case doesn't have holes in the case for convection like the Siglent does. Also, the power consumption spec is up to 50W, which if true could be a problem. Still, I suspect that the only likely problem would be cooking the electrolytics in the enclosed power supply. If and when that happens, you just replace the CapXon's with quality parts :-)

[BobCollins]

I just received my new DS1054Z an hour ago. 

Three of the four probe clip hoods were defective (just empty plastic shells). 

I chatted with TEquipment, who called Rigol during the chat, and was told that Rigol will ship me replacements. :|

Not a great start, but I am still hoping everything else is fine.

[alank2]

Interesting, the DS1054Z was about the same as the DS2072 after a few minutes.  I put the radio shack sound level meter about 6" from the left side of each unit where the fan is and set it to slow responding.  The DS2072 when first turned on was very quiet, almost too low to register on the 50dB minimum, but it hung out at 50, 51 and then kept ramping up higher and higher to 54, 55 within a couple of minutes.  The DS1054Z which to me seems a bit louder, starts as 54, 55 and stays there.  Both are noisier than I'd prefer, but not the end of the world.

[sweesiong78]

I just received my new DS1054Z an hour ago. 

Three of the four probe clip hoods were defective (just empty plastic shells). 

I chatted with TEquipment, who called Rigol during the chat, and was told that Rigol will ship me replacements. :|

Not a great start, but I am still hoping everything else is fine.

whoa, thanks for the heads up , I still havent checked or powered up the unit because of time, will do so ASAP tonight!

[alank2]

Three of the four probe clip hoods were defective (just empty plastic shells). 

Bummer, all 4 of mine were good.

I chatted with TEquipment, who called Rigol during the chat, and was told that Rigol will ship me replacements. :|

Maybe you'll get some free probes out of it!

[BobCollins]

I just received my new DS1054Z an hour ago. 

Three of the four probe clip hoods were defective (just empty plastic shells). 

I chatted with TEquipment, who called Rigol during the chat, and was told that Rigol will ship me replacements. :|

I received a call from an App Engineer at Rigol this afternoon concerning this issue. He seemed concerned about working this problem. He did say this had happened before, but not often. He asked for the probe package numbers so that he could track the problem down.

[Fungus]

Three of the four probe clip hoods were defective (just empty plastic shells). 

Bummer, all 4 of mine were good.

{grabs the second, so-far-unopened packet of probes and checks...}

 

[leppie]

Mine has just been delivered \o/

But UPS took payment for custom charges (from au pair) that I already paid yesterday.... 

Only a few more hours till I get home and play  O0