Author Topic: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown  (Read 297242 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #350 on: September 06, 2023, 06:13:53 am »
Raw dump of the DHO814 SD card, 30GB zipped, using HDD raw copy tool.

https://www.eevblog.org/files/RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.zip
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 08:42:27 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #351 on: September 06, 2023, 06:39:03 am »
Raw dump of 29.5GB will take a few hours to upload to the server.

You could compress it with 7zip which everybody has.
 

Online tom66

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #352 on: September 06, 2023, 07:13:58 am »
Interesting that they seem to be using PCI-e to connect to the Zynq - absolutely makes sense but seem to recall earlier Rigol's did not use this architecture.  I guess with many SoCs having PCI-e built in it makes a lot of sense.
 

Online switchabl

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #353 on: September 06, 2023, 07:59:17 am »
The hard PCIe IP is basically the reason why you would choose the Z-7015 instead of the (similar priced but otherwise more capable) Z-7020, so this is no surprise. PCIe would also allow direct access the SoC memory from the Zynq.
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #354 on: September 06, 2023, 08:31:58 am »
Interesting, because if the waveform display area is in memory shared by the SoC and the FPGA, and uses one of the RK3399's built-in Mali T860 MP4 OpenGL ES GPU's supported pixmap formats, it would be trivial for the GPU to compose the waveform area to any supported display resolution (as it seems to be doing right now).  They could also be using the shared memory area for the waveform data points only, with the GPU doing the rendering of the dots/lines (but probably not the sinc interpolation), but I don't think so.

Funnily enough, I do have an Android TV gadget using the very same RK3399 SoC.  The Mali T860 MP4 GPU is a pretty powerful beast for such a low-power SoC.  The SoC also has a powerful video decoder and encoder that can decode 10-bit H.264 at 2160p@60fps.  (I consider RockChip SoCs a good choice, because Rockchip pushes the hardware-level support to vanilla Linux/Android kernels, even employing kernel developers themselves.)

Another option would have been to treat the waveform display as a camera, and use the 6 Gbit/s MIPI CSI to stream the waveform display at a suitable update rate (possibly rotated to suit the intepolation/generation better).  If the displayed waveform data is stored in buffers, then a rather simple processor can generate the display one column at a time quite efficiently, somewhat similar to how first voxel-based games generated their continuous terrains.
I suspect the Zynq generates the waveform display area here.

Note that if the Zynq is fast enough to generate a much larger display area, the Mali T860 MP4 would easily be able to scale it, pixel-perfect (meaning no nearest-neighbour nonsense, I'm talking cubic interpolation scaling here, as used as the medium-high scaling method in image processing programs like Gimp and Photoshop; with FFT/DCT-based scaling being the highest quality method only occasionally used).
It would also allow all the vertical scaling to be done in the UI, simplifying the FPGA quite a bit, at the expense of much more RAM accesses.
(Each of the four channels should be their own display buffer, for maximum flexibility, though.  So quite a lot of RAM to fill by the FPGA.)

I am very positively surprised at the direction these oscilloscopes are taking, because I have wondered quite a while now why they don't do exactly this.

There is a lot of room for improvement, and not being in the development of these things, I don't know exactly what the bottlenecks are (I suspect RAM access from the FPGA is a major one); but I do suspect only relatively small hardware changes/upgrades are needed to fully exploit the 12-bit ADC.

At some point, I'd love to see a lower-end 12-bit scope with no built-in display at all, designed to work with full-HD or better large displays, with a custom control board using standard USB HID connected to the main unit with only the analog and digital inputs (with touch controls only optional, not requited), and USB, Ethernet, HDMI/DisplayPort connectors.
I don't know about you, but that kind of thing – combined with a HDMI/DisplayPort switcher – would definitely suit my workspace and workflow better.
The DHO800/900 series shows it is definitely possible already.  Mmm, modular scopes...

I do believe I will be getting a DHO804 or DHO814 myself, when they become available.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 08:40:34 am by Nominal Animal »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #355 on: September 06, 2023, 08:43:33 am »
Raw dump of 29.5GB will take a few hours to upload to the server.
You could compress it with 7zip which everybody has.

Linked updated to ZIP, now 650MB
https://www.eevblog.org/files/RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.zip
 

Online TurboTom

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #356 on: September 06, 2023, 10:23:41 am »
...

No idea where SN comes from. I don't see any obvious places for it. And even if recovered image is from a different SN, who cares?

...

FRAM??  ;)

And then, there's also the Zync Flash (Winbond W25Q128JV) that may contain some instrument-specific data as well. I guess the flash card is interchangeable between (at least) scopes of the same model and configuration. Rigol probably just flashes images on blank cards, any by inserting them into the "hardware", it turns the scope into the configuration as required. Much easier and cheaper than having to flash all the data onto the hardware in-situ.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #357 on: September 06, 2023, 10:25:40 am »
Raw dump of 29.5GB will take a few hours to upload to the server.
You could compress it with 7zip which everybody has.

Linked updated to ZIP, now 650MB
https://www.eevblog.org/files/RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.zip

466Mb with 7zip  :)
 

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #358 on: September 06, 2023, 10:54:31 am »
As usual the Rigol scopes include in the FRAM:

- model
- S/N
- licenses
- calibration
- etc.

So, swapping the card should not create a "cloned" scope. It would just update the scope with a new bootloader, FS, apps, etc. (the card stuff)

From memory (MSO5000 onwards), when there is a discrepancy between the public key (Key.data) and vendor.bin (scope model + S/N) I think the device should rewrite those files with the extracted replicas from the FRAM and life goes on.
 
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Online tv84

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #359 on: September 06, 2023, 11:01:06 am »
BTW, if all is inside the card, then Rigol has created a RPi style scope!!!!   :-+

This should be the HW platform for those that are interested in assembling/compiling their own software solution with their own custom OS!

Interesting...

So, to all Rigol bashers, the path is here to stop complaining about their developers and start putting the effort.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 11:04:05 am by tv84 »
 
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Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #360 on: September 06, 2023, 11:04:58 am »
One additional thing I noticed in the EEVblog 1563 teardown video:  One can machine their own alu heatsink better suited for a slim 120mm fan, say SilverStone FN123 (120x120x15mm, 12V, no PWM).  I suspect the existing fan is 5V – it would've been nice if you'd checked! –, so an adjustable 5V to 7V-12V boost circuit for the fan (adjustable, so one can optimize the fan RPM, as these are voltage controlled fans) would be needed, but with this mod, it could be rather quiet.  Which I like.

BTW, I suspect the wider ribbon cable is the display connector, the narrower ribbon cable the capacitive touch panel (SPI or I2C) connector, and the pins are the buttons and encoders on the front side.  It would match the RK3399 SoC as well.

Dammit, Dave, now you've got me really wanting one!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 11:06:40 am by Nominal Animal »
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #361 on: September 06, 2023, 11:06:35 am »
Here are the partitions in the SD card image, RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.img:
  • offset=281018368,sizelimit=134217728: Ext4 Android backup/recovery partition
  • offset=415236096,sizelimit=2147483648: Ext4 Android filesystem system named system (startup stuff)
  • offset=2562719744,sizelimit=16777216: Ext4, empty
  • offset=2584248320,sizelimit=524288000: Ext4 filesystem named rigol, contains interesting Rigol stuff
  • offset=3225419776,sizelimit=28494004224: Ext4 filesystem, rest of the Android filesystem
In Linux, you can mount these via the loopback device in read-only mode using
    sudo mount -o ro,loop,offset=offset,sizelimit=size RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.img directory/
Drop the ro, if you want read-write mode.  To unmount,
    sudo umount directory/
Any empty directory will do.
 
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Offline Nikki Smith

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #362 on: September 06, 2023, 11:15:53 am »
One additional thing I noticed in the EEVblog 1563 teardown video:  One can machine their own alu heatsink better suited for a slim 120mm fan, say SilverStone FN123 (120x120x15mm, 12V, no PWM).  I suspect the existing fan is 5V – it would've been nice if you'd checked! –, so an adjustable 5V to 7V-12V boost circuit for the fan (adjustable, so one can optimize the fan RPM, as these are voltage controlled fans) would be needed, but with this mod, it could be rather quiet.  Which I like.

According to @hubertyoung's teardown photos, the fan is a 12V FirstDO FD5010H12S:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigols-new-dho800-oscilloscope-unbox-teardown/msg4976278/#msg4976278

it might be possible to find a quieter fan at the same size/rpm, 2-pin or 3-pin should work (just leave the third pin unconnected as it is just for reporting the fan speed back to the PC). Certainly there is a huge range in noise levels in PC fans and buying a quality fan from Gelid or Noctua can really improve things. I'd certainly try hacking the case off a £6 Gelid Solutions Silent 5 and bodging it in before I machined a new heatsink ;)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2023, 11:23:18 am by Nikki Smith »
 
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Offline Njk

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #363 on: September 06, 2023, 11:24:23 am »
Rigol probably just flashes images on blank cards, any by inserting them into the "hardware", it turns the scope into the configuration as required. Much easier and cheaper than having to flash all the data onto the hardware in-situ.
Is it not possible any more to buy a pre-programmed memory from the chip vendor? Anyway, interesting evolution. Previously, it was common to solder the memory card on PCB. Now, they're using the caged version, like on EVBs. So user can easily help yourself by melting the glue. Also, memory cards are designed with security/copy protection in mind, especially SD cards. There can be hidden/encrypted/OTP areas or partitions, etc. So it's easy to prevent the user from reading the essential parts of the content. But it's apparently not the case here. Just wonderful.
 

Offline Warhawk

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #364 on: September 06, 2023, 11:26:23 am »
Am I the only one who gets heebie-jeebies because of the SD card? I assume this is same for the 800/900 family. What about the 1000 family?

Online tv84

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #365 on: September 06, 2023, 11:28:51 am »
Also, memory cards are designed with security/copy protection in mind, especially SD cards. There can be hidden/encrypted/OTP areas or partitions, etc. So it's easy to prevent the user from reading the essential parts of the content.

All that is possible BUT now there is already (at least) a Dave's copy in the wild (accessible by anyone). So, to prevent this copy there would have to be a HW change to the platform.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #366 on: September 06, 2023, 11:48:25 am »
One can machine their own alu heatsink...

for that effort, then why not go full hog, acommodate a full thickness fan and also machine vesa holes into the rear heatsink too? then just make that rear metal component also be the rear shell? for the trouble
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #367 on: September 06, 2023, 12:04:40 pm »
All that is possible BUT now there is already (at least) a Dave's copy in the wild (accessible by anyone).

I predict there will never be a shortage of copies.

So, to prevent this copy there would have to be a HW change to the platform.

Rigol took the decision to be hacker-friendly a long time ago.

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #368 on: September 06, 2023, 12:10:35 pm »
With this chipset and this ease of hacking I predict all sorts of crazy mods for these.

DOOM is probably already running, a MAME console will be in the works... I wonder if the audio out is available anywhere on the PCB.

What we need is an SD card switcher - internal/external SD card.
 
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Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #369 on: September 06, 2023, 12:20:19 pm »
Here are the partitions in the SD card image, RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.img:
  • offset=281018368,sizelimit=134217728: Ext4 Android backup/recovery partition
  • offset=415236096,sizelimit=2147483648: Ext4 Android filesystem system named system (startup stuff)
  • offset=2562719744,sizelimit=16777216: Ext4, empty
  • offset=2584248320,sizelimit=524288000: Ext4 filesystem named rigol, contains interesting Rigol stuff
  • offset=3225419776,sizelimit=28494004224: Ext4 filesystem, rest of the Android filesystem
In Linux, you can mount these via the loopback device in read-only mode using
    sudo mount -o ro,loop,offset=offset,sizelimit=size RigolDHO800-SDcard-dump.img directory/
Drop the ro, if you want read-write mode.  To unmount,
    sudo umount directory/
Any empty directory will do.

That's funny, didn't read the entire topic, so is this oscilloscope running Android?  Which version?

I have mixed fillings about switching the OS from Linux to Android.  Happens that last week I was reading about Android, and it seems Android is much murkier and less standardized than Linux.

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #370 on: September 06, 2023, 12:32:23 pm »
One can machine their own alu heatsink...
for that effort, then why not go full hog, acommodate a full thickness fan and also machine vesa holes into the rear heatsink too? then just make that rear metal component also be the rear shell? for the trouble
Because it is relatively small piece of not too thick aluminium (compared to full rear shell), needing only 2D/2.5D machining on each side, thus doable even for a hobbyist like myself with the help of the local Hacklab and their mill (or CNC mill).  Full rear shell?  Complicated, and much larger.

Just adding a 80mm or 120mm fan to the VESA mount may not produce as good results as one might think; the enclosure is definitely quite high impedance to the airflow, so unless you do a shroud, it may "leak" too much and produce less cooling than one might expect.  Measuring the temperature of the heatsink with the standard fan would be the first thing I'd do before doing any mods, though.
 

Offline dreamcat4

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #371 on: September 06, 2023, 12:39:36 pm »
hang on a sec...

maybe we are missing a trick here. because if we can drill directly into the existing heatsink some new mounting holes, and attach a sort-a standoffs or shoulder bolts mount another block of metal (can be just basically machined to have right holes sizes).

then we loose the existing plastic rear cover. this lets to mount some fan how we like to. plus optionally can still 3d print (or manually fabricate) a shround if necessary.

that would look something like a cage design overall. if you can visualize to follow those words based description, (sorry for lack of diagram here)
 

Online Nominal Animal

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #372 on: September 06, 2023, 12:46:08 pm »
I'd certainly try hacking the case off a £6 Gelid Solutions Silent 5 and bodging it in before I machined a new heatsink ;)
I forgot to mention: I'd like to also machine new heatsink lids for Hammond diecast aluminium boxes for a few of my SBCs, as well, so the entire "lid" would be a heatsink.  The idea is that the box is large enough to hold the connectors as well, so you'd only have rubber grommet passthrough holes for the cables in the intersection of the box and the heatsink-lid, and completely dust-proof, even splashproof enclosure, for the SBC.  For dusty shop use, you see.

I also don't think the heatsink geometry is optimal.  They want a radial airflow over the heatsink, but the large area taken by the fan reduces the overall surface area, and thus the thermal impedance is larger than necessary.  Starting with a larger fan, even if it means hacking a big hole in the rear shell and 3D-printing a replacement that "bulges" outwards, rotating the 120mm fan 45 degrees still allows room for the VESA 100 mounting holes (although the fan diagonal is almost 170mm which might be too large), and a radial heatsink fin pattern not centered at the fan hub, might yield much better cooling at low RPMs.

But mostly, it's the hackability that I really like.
 

Offline Nikki Smith

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #373 on: September 06, 2023, 12:47:58 pm »
That's funny, didn't read the entire topic, so is this oscilloscope running Android?  Which version?

I have mixed fillings about switching the OS from Linux to Android.  Happens that last week I was reading about Android, and it seems Android is much murkier and less standardized than Linux.

It's Android 7, with Linux kernel 4.4.126. You can even run Android apps on the 'scope, like the Genshin Impact game!

Android is based on Linux, but is quite different from most Linux distros (RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu, etc). You could argue that Android is more standardised (because it is controlled by Google), but also less standardised (because every phone/tablet/telecomm company adds loads of custom crap on top of vanilla Android).
 
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Offline gjvdheiden

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Re: Rigol's New DHO800 Oscilloscope unbox & teardown
« Reply #374 on: September 06, 2023, 12:53:11 pm »
Am I the only one who gets heebie-jeebies because of the SD card? I assume this is same for the 800/900 family. What about the 1000 family?

No. You're not alone. Tapped the casing over to hold it in place...

But that is because of Raspberry Pi's on an SD. It is guaranteed to get corrupted at some time and then just stops working.

True it is easy to backup. But I suspect you'll have to refresh the card every now and then.
 
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