Siglent SDS2000X Plus

[Peter_O]

What's your best approach to export screenshots for black and white printing?
Even with color printing it's difficult to choose trace colors that do well on screen and paper, when you invert the export to white background. 

OK, I confess: I'm old school and sometimes like paper. 

[Martin72]

I'm old school and sometimes like paper. 

I must like paper because we use the screenshots for factory acceptance testreports..
That's why I suggested some time ago that siglent could handle this like lecroy, where the color selection is possible separately.
Once for the display, once for printing.
And in the selection for printing you can still select B/W printig or color printing.

[Leandros]

Just unpacked a brand new Siglent SDS2104X Plus.

Is this normal fan noise? The clicking noise of the fan is rather loud, compared to other PC fans that I have lying around.

https://imgur.com/a/SQiDDSU


I'm asking because if this isn't normal noise, it's going back. The vendor tries to tell me it's normal for the SDS2100X series, but I can't seem to believe that. It sounds like a destroyed ball bearing in the fan.

[Martin72]

Hi,

Hard to hear for me..
But I´ve made a short clip from the SDS2104Xplus I got at home:
If this sounds similar, then nothing is wrong with yours.

(link will be deleted in one hour)

[ebastler]

Without a "reference sound" (in the same recording) to compare to, I think those audio recordings are impossible to interpret. Who knows what microphone auto-gain was set, and what playback volume should be used?

Maybe we need building instructions for a "standard acoustic noise source" with a reproducible sound level, to be added to every scopeologist's T&M toolkit?

[Martin72]

The clicking noise of the fan is rather loud

You can do that without a reference.

[ebastler]

The clicking noise of the fan is rather loud

You can do that without a reference.

I didn't hear any clicking, neither in Leandros' recording nor yours. 

Edit: My "reference noise source" suggestion was at least half-serious though. We have had so many discussions about various scopes' fans centered around subjective impressions -- "it's loud", "it's annoyingly loud", "I don't find it too bad" -- that some reference frame would be helpful indeed. Maybe no need to build something; there must be an app for that...

[Leandros]

I made some decibel measurements. It hovered between 49 dB and 51 dB. I've attached it to the post.

I've also attached a picture of where I took the measurement so you can reproduce it.


I want to clarify that I'm not questioning the general noise of the fan. It's a fan. It'll be making noise moving the air. That's expected. What I'm wondering is whether the clacking noise is normal, or an indicator of a broken bearing.

[Martin72]

There shouldn't be a clicking noise, I don't have one here, just a constant sound.
My SDS2kX HD had a clicking noise, that was clearly the fan, which I then replaced.
I still have it, I can record it tomorrow with a proper microphone and an RTA program.

[Leandros]

> I can record it tomorrow with a proper microphone and an RTA program.

That'd be much appreciated. I might have to replace my fan as well (or just return it in my 14 day return window).

[Martin72]

Hi,

If you want to exchange, here a little stuff to read:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3786074/#msg3786074

(and further posts)

[axantas]

Just unpacked a brand new Siglent SDS2104X Plus.

Is this normal fan noise? The clicking noise of the fan is rather loud, compared to other PC fans that I have lying around.

The sound of the stock fan in the SDS2000X Plus is loud. Your one sounds like a very cheap fan with "broken" bearings. Replace it with with a Noctua (mentioned here in this thread) and insert the "noise reduction"-cable, that comes with the fan. You will not hear it anymore and the scope does not overheat with reduced fan performance.
A replacement one will not be much more quiet. My scopes fan just hit the resonance of the case and emitted a horrible humming sound.
Just pay attention to remove the warranty-sticker carefully.

[KungFuJosh]

My fan was a little loud, and had an annoying clicking sound. I recently replaced it with this fan: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NEMG9B0/

I didn't install the reduction cable, and the fan is on full speed all the time. It's still quieter and sounds better than the stock fan did.

[blurpy]

We've been through this discussion a few times now. Like this one:

One question - is the fan supposed to tick? I've read some complaints about noise, but mine ticks very fast, like a clock on speed.

I also uploaded a sound file of the fan ticking. It's just the way the fan operates.

[axantas]

My fan was a little loud, and had an annoying clicking sound. I recently replaced it with this fan: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NEMG9B0/

I didn't install the reduction cable, and the fan is on full speed all the time. It's still quieter and sounds better than the stock fan did.

You can not get any better fan. try one of the cables and be surprised about the “vanished” fan…

[KungFuJosh]

You can not get any better fan. try one of the cables and be surprised about the “vanished” fan…

I'm fine with it as it is. I don't need it to be silent, I just hated the clicking noise. Now it's a clean/consistent sound which is even soothing. 😉

[tuxfanx]

Since the relatively loud fan noises also bothered me a lot, including slight clicking noises, I initially decided to just replace the fan with a Noctua NF-A9 FLX. However, I was still not completely satisfied with the result of the FLX. So I decided to waive my warranty and converted my device with the Noctua NF-A9 PWM similarly as described here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg5119110/?topicseen#msg5119110. After that I was satisfied.

Here are my settings for the controller:
Voltage of the base speed (~910rpm): ~5.2V (fan stops running at approx. 4V)
Controller acceleration temperature: 30°C
Temperature for maximum speed (2000rpm): 30°C + 15°C = 45°C
After switching the scope on at a room temperature of 22.5°C, the fan runs for approx. 8 minutes at the lowest speed level (912rpm @5.2V) (channels 1 and 3 on + FFT for channel 1 on).
The controller then increases the speed by 1 step (1150rpm @6.4V) and remains there with the above-mentioned measuring mode of the oscilloscope.
After 1 hour in the above-mentioned measuring mode, I was able to measure the following temperatures:
Room temperature: 22.5°C
Exhaust air temperature directly behind the fan: 32°C
CPU temperature on the base of the heat sink: 51°C
ADC temperature on the heat sink of an ADC: ~41°C

Using a calibrated measuring microphone (Beyerdynamic MM1, 50 cm away from the screen and 30 cm above the tabletop) I was able to measure the following A-weighted  equivalent continuous sound levels (LAeq) in a very quiet living room:
Oscilloscope off: LAeq=25dB (probably the noise floor voltage of the microphone)
Oscilloscope switched on (Fan running with1150rpm @6.5V): LAeq=27.5dB

After my first conversion step, in which I only replaced the existing fan with an Noctua NF-A9 FLX (without controller module, @12V operating voltage @1600rpm), I measured the following sound pressure levels:
Oscilloscope switched off: LAeq=25.5dB
Oscilloscope switched on: LAeq=36dB

After a second conversion step (Manufacturer warranty still valid), in which I used the Noctua NF-A9 FLX with the noise reduction cable @1250 rpm I mesured:
scope off: LAeq=25dB
scope on: LAeq=31dB

With the Noctua FLX it would have been possible to use another noise reduction cable (1050 rpm). But that was too uncertain for me with regard to higher room temperatures, and so I decided to convert my device with NF-A9 PWM as described in the link mentioned above. The FLX fans are not so well suited for DC controller operation because they stop turning at ~5V.

UPDATE:
I replaced the 3-wire DC controller with a 4-wire PWM controller (see photo below).
The PWM controller regulates the fan speed continuously and allows the temperature thresholds to be set in steps of 1°C. The duty cycle for speed control can be changed in steps of 1%.

Settings for the PWM controller:
PWM duty cycle for base speed: 42% (~910rpm)
PWM accel. temperature: 31°c
PWM max. speed temp. : 48°C (2000rpm)
Turn off temp.: 0°C (no switch off function)

[axantas]

You can not get any better fan. try one of the cables and be surprised about the “vanished” fan…

I'm fine with it as it is. I don't need it to be silent, I just hated the clicking noise. Now it's a clean/consistent sound which is even soothing. 😉

Others buy expensive soothing white noise generators - we do have a combo fan with DSO for that   

[KungFuJosh]

Others buy expensive soothing white noise generators - we do have a combo fan with DSO for that   

My Yogasleep Dohm wasn't that expensive. 🤣

[MathWizard]

If you're only going up to say 50MHz and not trying to zoom way in after stopping, is there any real downside to using 10bit mode mode ? What about in FFT or Bode Plots ? Maybe it doesn't even matter for all I know.

[Leandros]

I have also made the switch to the Noctua NF-A9 FLX. It's much better now. Thanks for all the help and advice!

[MathWizard]

Also can Bode plot's be done with a 10x probe or not ? I could put 1 from DUT output to the scope, I have 50 ohm cable between AWG and the scope, and a 50R cable from AWG to DUT input.

I tried to solder a scope GND clip to a board, but it's stainless steel or something. So I soldered on some copper wire coils. Just doing that I can see the difference in a BJT's response.

I have to make some sort of low capacitance probe. I have a partly dodgy 50R alligator clip cable, may the BNC end is still good and I can use it. Or what about old scope cables, that aren't 50R, can they be used for a low impedance low capacitance probe ?

[Martin72]

I have also made the switch to the Noctua NF-A9 FLX. It's much better now

In another thread I´ve made measures of the fan noise from different scopes:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-dho804-test-and-compare-thread/msg5226036/#msg5226036

Here a comparison between SDS2104Xplus original fan and SDS2504X HD with integrated fan control and noctua fan.

[nealix]

Does anyone know approx when to expect the next firmware update?  I am a new scope owner.  No, I don't have any issue or bug at the moment, I am simply curious since a while ago someone posted that new firmware was in beta test.

Happy Holidays,

Neal

[MathWizard]

I don't remember seeing this before, but today on my 2204x+, on FFT w/o a CH4 probe connected, I get about -42dBV signal right at 100.000MHz, that's w/ 500us timebase, full BW, 10x amp on the scope, 1V/div. FM radio is in noise floor, not showing up, NF is around -85dBV.

The only other signals above noise from 0-200MHz, on the 500us timebase, is AM radio.

When I switch to 1ms timebase, the 100MHz signal is still there but right at the end of the max freq 100MHz.

But when I go to 200us timebase, the signal is gone.


On CH2 FFT, w/o CH2 probe attached, I'm getting upto -67dBV at 100.0000MHz, but it's level is going down near -84dBV, but the noise floor is a few dBV lower than CH4 was, this is closer to -95

What's that 100MHz signal all about ? And why is there about 10dBV difference between CH2 and CH4 's noise floor, w/o probes attached, and both on full BW, 10x, 1V/div ?


maybe I have seen this before, and it's just a digital artifact, from the math it does.