Siglent SDS800X HD 12 bit DSO's

[RAPo]

I wasn't trying to be a semantic pendant.
I was thinking along the webster idiom because of what something or someone is : according to the definition of a word that is being used to describe someone or something
Rigol had a bug when the MSO5000 series came out, later the bug was solved.
I totally agree that the lissajous CH1/CH2 1V/div should be a circle, and the X-axis should be around the full dynamic range. but that does not imply the X/Y window should be square, because of the scaling factor of the pixels.

Rigol could do it: a square x/y plot, but different pixel sizes in x,y direction.
But then again I asked for a reference not an example.

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

Aha you want to argue semantics... No I don't have an encyclopedia quote that claims that.
But you misunderstood.
This is one of those things that look obvious to me.

I didn't say "Defintion of X-Y mode is such....."

I used idiom "by definition" which has a meaning "because of the nature of someone or something"..
English.... I know...

As for Rigol and their new scopes...

I see all the time companies in consumer space trying to do new things all the time to attract attention to how they "innovate"..
Sometimes they replace "old" with "new" at the detriment of function and quality.. Just to show how they are making things that are modern and new.

Unfortunately, Rigol is making many decisions lately that I would classify as such type of behaviour.
I would not consider them as an reference example...

[2N3055]

I wasn't trying to be a semantic pendant.
I was thinking along the webster idiom because of what something or someone is : according to the definition of a word that is being used to describe someone or something
Rigol had a bug when the MSO5000 series came out, later the bug was solved.
I totally agree that the lissajous CH1/CH2 1V/div should be a circle, and the X-axis should be around the full dynamic range. but that does not imply the X/Y window should be square, because of the scaling factor of the pixels.

Rigol could do it: a square x/y plot, but different pixel sizes in x,y direction.
But then again I asked for a reference not an example.

Create Lissajous plot with uneven axis.
Let me know how circle looks if aspect ratio is not 1:1.

Aha you want to argue semantics... No I don't have an encyclopedia quote that claims that.
But you misunderstood.
This is one of those things that look obvious to me.

I didn't say "Defintion of X-Y mode is such....."

I used idiom "by definition" which has a meaning "because of the nature of someone or something"..
English.... I know...

As for Rigol and their new scopes...

I see all the time companies in consumer space trying to do new things all the time to attract attention to how they "innovate"..
Sometimes they replace "old" with "new" at the detriment of function and quality.. Just to show how they are making things that are modern and new.

Unfortunately, Rigol is making many decisions lately that I would classify as such type of behaviour.
I would not consider them as an reference example...

Your ADC dynamic range is square...

[RAPo]

yes the ADC is symmetric, but we are looking at an image generated on the basis of that data. If the generated image would result in a non circle (because of the pixels size) and the maker would guarantee that a circle is rendered as a circle, there is no other option than to smuggle a bit with the y-axis.

[BillyO]

e.g. ±3 divisions for X, ±4 divisions for Y.

So, a signal with an actual slope of 1 will look like it has a slope of 3/4?

Why?

[mikes]

e.g. ±3 divisions for X, ±4 divisions for Y.

So, a signal with an actual slope of 1 will look like it has a slope of 3/4?

Why?

You selectively quoted me. You left out "grid is scaled to match the aspect ratio." If not already obvious, that was an example where the display area would have a 3x4 aspect ratio. X and Y divisions would still be equal in dimension.

An analog scope typically has 8x10 divisions - do you think they display X-Y with a 4/5 slope?

[BillyO]

You selectively quoted me. You left out "grid is scaled to match the aspect ratio." If not already obvious, that was an example where the display area would have a 3x4 aspect ratio. X and Y divisions would still be equal in dimension.

An analog scope typically has 8x10 divisions - do you think they display X-Y with a 4/5 slope?

Please do not assume I'm and idiot.

The graticule divisions should to be square.  No ifs, ands or buts.  Scaling one direction and not the other on a digital scope will cause the display to be skewed.  I can find no rational reason for this.

This would be an even worse situation with a old analog scope that has a fixed graticule.  Then scaling one dimension out of calibration will result in garbage as far as being able to read anything from the display is concerned.

[Simon]

Please do calm down boys.

[mikes]

The graticule divisions should to be square.  No ifs, ands or buts.

Which is exactly what I said. Read again (and again if necessary).

[KungFuJosh]

The graticule divisions should to be square.  No ifs, ands or buts.

Which is exactly what I said. Read again (and again if necessary).

Did you not see the comment from the moderator? You need to chill out with the insults and attitude.

[eTobey]

The graticule divisions should to be square.  No ifs, ands or buts. ...  I can find no rational reason for this.

So with other words, you, and probably others (havent read all that fuzz and noise...) are saying: "I dont know another use-case, so it should stay like this."? Thats a pretty lame statement! 

Like saying: "I have done it for 20 years like this, so it cant be wrong."

[watchmaker]

In watchmaking, if a tool does not suit your liking, you can piss and moan about it every time you use it, buy a different tool or create a tool that suits your needs exactly.

Just saying.

[Furna]

[...]
Like saying: "I have done it for 20 years like this, so [...]"

... all my trained operators are used to that, as well all the maintenance documentation I wrote in the last 80 years ...

There are reasons to continue to do as it was done 20 years ago; it's just you do not want to see them.

[watchmaker]

Full screen XY? Get an old scope from the last millennium. Those can do this. 

Why would anyone in their right mind wanna go backwards to solve a problem when all they need to do is learn how to use their scope and its attributes.

I am happy to learn how i can get a fullscreen XY on that scope... but i guess there is nothing to learn, because there is nothing behind your statement.

The information about the XY function in the manual is also virtually nothing... 

All the available vertical display real-estate is already used in SDS800X HD 7" display models.
We don't want or need to lose the channel tabs or dropdown menus therefore only 70mm of vertical space is available. We need to see our settings !

Webserver screenshot.


Using the webserver and Full screen mode for XY OTOH provides a 240mm grid on a 24" display, much larger than anyone's ancient CRO. 


Full screen


We could go a step further and screenshot Full screen mode if/when documentation images are required.

FIREFOX does what I want!  An actual full screen of the webserver; bezel to bezel.  Only thing is I have to decrease zoom to 80% before entering fullscreen mode.

I do not understand it; but I do not have to.  Just got there by superstitious behaviors.

Thanks to all!

[tautech]

FIREFOX does what I want!  An actual full screen of the webserver; bezel to bezel.  Only thing is I have to decrease zoom to 80% before entering fullscreen mode.

I do not understand it; but I do not have to.  Just got there by superstitious behaviors.

Thanks to all!

Tapping the 4 blue arrows at RH foot of the webserver full screens the webserver in any browser if your browser scaling is correct.
Ctrl+scrollwheel can rescale to fit.

Press Esc to return to normal webserver view.

[watchmaker]

Tautech,

Thanks, but absolutely no joy except on Firefox.  Probably some setting I had in Chrome that was carried over to Edge.  BUT, I have a way to get what I want and I can wait until the kids come to see what needs to be changed in Chrome/Edge.  You guys have other fish to fry.

[Grandchuck]

This works on other Siglent scopes as well.  I tried the control-scrollwheel and it works too.

[ebastler]

This works on other Siglent scopes as well. 

That screenshot looks much nicer, since it seems to use the full screen resolution. Is it from a 2000 series scope?

[Grandchuck]

Yes, from a 2000 series.

[watchmaker]

This is wat I get with Fire Fox.

[KungFuJosh]

Looks like X/Y connections are reversed in your screenshot.

[MathWizard]

I ordered the SDS804X HD, 12-bits will look nicer for sure. And I'll keep my 1204X-E, and I might open it up tonight, to clean the dust out of it, and see about changing the fan, or slowing it down a little bit.

Has anyone tried battery-pack mod for any Siglent scope ? I don't have any need for that right now, I'm just wondering ? For instance I have an old laptop battery, anyone ever make a PSU with all the low voltage rails for their scope ?

I don't want to try, but has anyone hacked their DSO and actually put Linux or games on there ? I wonder how modern DSO's compare with game consoles and handhelds, like SNES.

[watchmaker]

It is PNP.

[tautech]

I ordered the SDS804X HD, 12-bits will look nicer for sure. And I'll keep my 1204X-E, and I might open it up tonight, to clean the dust out of it, and see about changing the fan, or slowing it down a little bit.

FYI, a customer and I investigated reducing fan noise and he even got a Noctua installed but it offered little to no gain in noise reduction.
I even ripped out the steel grille in front of the fan in my unit, again for little or no apparent noise reduction.
IMO the only way is a slight reduction in fan speed to a noise level to your liking.

Has anyone tried battery-pack mod for any Siglent scope ? I don't have any need for that right now, I'm just wondering ? For instance I have an old laptop battery, anyone ever make a PSU with all the low voltage rails for their scope ?

Tried with 90V DC but it wasn't enough to kick the SMPS Off to get the scope working.
Have a look at the service manual to check what LV rails you need.

[MathWizard]

Ok thanks, what's the key/lock on the back of the scope ? A quick search gets the phonebook. There's the 2 hex or Torx screws, I know the feet pop off and maybe a screw under them. I don't want to go scratching it, I have cheap plastic splurgers or whatever they are called. I hope I don't need them. And I'll have to be careful popping the knobs off too.

[tautech]

Ok thanks, what's the key/lock on the back of the scope ?

For Kensington locks when you need secure equipment to prevent it growing legs. 

There's the 2 hex or Torx screws, I know the feet pop off and maybe a screw under them. I don't want to go scratching it, I have cheap plastic splurgers or whatever they are called. I hope I don't need them.

IIRC, a couple under the handle and more by the feet.
The covers clip on so spudgers are the right thing to use to release the clips.

And I'll have to be careful popping the knobs off too.

Encoder knobs are connected to the front PCB which is undisturbed just removing the external cover and shielding.

The X-E Service manual should give some guidance.