Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[m k]

If you decide to try with the frame cover, there's tape without tape, so just a glue part.
It's like something between slime and snot, between silicon papers.

[FPSychotic]

Got this peak/avg power meter EPM-P E4416A and E9327a sensor , having and loving 437b and 438a, this is great upgrade. Needed a small repair. It is just  calibrated  and the sendor was in the '22.screen doesn't look as nice like in the pictures, they lack bright but looks much better in pictures.they haver some reliability issue with power switch, screen,firmware/ram , ribbon connectors and keys membrane and power supply as I could see. Dificult to see a 437b with such issues

[TERRA Operative]

I've had a few of these in my hands (I currently have a E4419B).

The front panel button flex PCB tends to fail, but replacements can be found for a good price on ebay etc.

Also, there is an eprom on the measurement boards (it present on the 4418 and 4419, may be the same on the 4416?) that should be flashed with the latest firmware (v1.11) using a chip programmer before you flash the latest main firmware via GPIB or Serial.
I also replace the RAM backup battery in them too as they are reaching that age.
(Be sure to take photos of the serial number/model number screens so you can reprogram the unit correctly after the firmware update or RAM Battery replacement)

https://www.keysight.com/zz/en/lib/software-detail/instrument-firmware-software/epmp-series-power-meter-firmware-upgrade-1000000930epsgsud.html
https://docs.keysight.com/kkbopen/how-can-the-e4416a-e4417a-e4418a-epm441a-e4418b-e4419a-epm442a-e4419b-memory-be-erased-for-security-purposes-588277960.html

Beyond that, I haven't had much issue with these units. Just be careful when releasing the black locking bar inside behind the front panel, they become brittle with age and can crack easily.

[ddrl46]

Has anyone ever had any luck in locating the sensor connector for the E4418/4419 series power meters?
It appears to be a fairly standard DIN connector but it is mounted by a snap ring, but it might be custom.

[TERRA Operative]

Keysight seem not to have them, at least not for any type of reasonable price.

I ended up pulling one from a unit with the rear connector option.

[wkb]

Or get one from a dead power sensor.

Plugs are available from the likes of Aliexpress. I bought a couple to build my own sensor cable (repurposed thinnish VGA cable works fine). I assume Alie will also have the corresponding chassis parts, although I never bought these.

Wilko

[dazz1]

Has anyone ever had any luck in locating the sensor connector for the E4418/4419 series power meters?
It appears to be a fairly standard DIN connector but it is mounted by a snap ring, but it might be custom.

Bayonet DIN connectors are standard.
4 Position Circular Connector Receptacle, Female Sockets Solder Eyelet(s)
The sockets look like snap ring type, but they are not.

[wkb]

These are not bajonet DIN sockets..

The snap ring mentioned is at the back of the chassis part to keep it mounted in the front/back plate.

[ddrl46]

Attached is a photo of the connector for clarification.
From what I've seen the connectors in the power sensors are threaded on the rear unfortunately.

[wkb]

I know they are threaded. I have two E4418 power meters that I had to repair.
But if you cannot get the "clipped " original something has to give.. 

[Vince]

Oh, got extremely lucky for a change, unbelievably lucky.

A friend just sent me a FREE HP 34401A bench DMM !

I wanted one of those for 10 years now, but they cost 500 Euros here so I always had more important things to pay for, than a bench DMM.

I just received it this evening, a couple hours ago, if even that.

It was a bit rough, the exterior was covered with a dozen labels, was super dirty and sticky... 30 minutes of hard core cleaning later, it now looks much better.

Looks quite decent, other than the front bezel that's yellowed and the top of the bezel that is stained here and there due to remains of some stickers. Like the ink pigments in the stickers somehow managed to stain the plastic. eh...
However I am not too worried because both these issues will be "fixed" instantly, covered up that is... as soon as I find rubber bumpers to complement this fine instrument !
Yes, it's missing the bumpers... hopefully those can be found for a reasonable price... will start searching.

It's missing the carry handle as well, but I don't care because handles always drive me nuts anyway, as they prevent me from stacking instruments !   

At the back, I have GPIB and serial, lovely ! I guess this is standard on these instruments anyway...

Still at the back, I noticed a slight damage to the plastic of the "frame" that bolts to the chassis : one of the two screws clearly was not the right one, Pozidrive instead of Torx.  So, fearing that the instrument might have been messed with, I proceeded to crack it open for a quick visual inspection... which revealed nothing suspicious at all.
Everything in there looked in perfect condition and original.  Date code on IC's indicate early 1993, so 36 years old.

So, I powered it up... no smoke, no explosion... all went smoothly. It powers up just fine, and there are no error codes from the CPU.
The VFD is not super bright of course, given the age, but it's still plenty usable in daylight, even with the neon tubes lit above the bench.
So I don't plan on embarking into a display replacement 

So next... can it measure anything ?
I checked DC volts of course, the heart of the beast, and what is used most...
First I connected it to my lab supply so I could quickly sweep from 0V to 30V to see how the meter would react.
No issues, it reads just fine.

So then I went further and tried to test its accuracy. All I have is my cheap Chinese Vref, sorry.

If I set the Vref for a 10V output, the HP measures 10.00293V and the sticker on the Vref says the Chinese measured it at the factory at 10.00258V
So not too bad at first glance !
Did the maths anyway of course. If I got it right then the meter read 0.0035% too high.
IIRC the basic accuracy of the meter is 0.0015% right ?
So I get twice that.
However according to the sticker on the Vref, the Chinese measured their ref using a...... HP 34401A just like mine !
So could just be that my meter is just fine, within spec, and reading high, when the Chinese meter was reading low...

We will never know.

But overall what we can say I guess is that my meter most likely reads within spec, or close enough that it's perfectly usable for my humble purposes...
I certainly trust the meter unless proven otherwise.

OK so now I guess I have officially put a first finger into the rabbit hole of precision and metrology ?   
I mean, I already feel the urge to find a more accurate Vref so I can check this meter again and recalibrate it to make it even better !  HELP !!!   

No, no money whatsoever for metrology rabbit holes.... the most I would be able to afford for a modern and accurate TE would be 500 Euros or something.
Now that I have this meter, no need to spend 500 anymore.

If anyone knows of an affordable Vref that would be accurate enough to confidently calibrate this meter ?

I am willing to spend up to 100 Euros... would that get me anything in this day and age ? Some more Chinese things I guess ? Links, ideas/suggestions ? 


Anyway, I am over the moon, my first decent bench DMM !

Need to check the rest of the features now, but Vdc is the heart of the system and every other feature comes down to measuring Vdc in the end, so I am confident....

HAPPY VINCE !!!!     

[factory]

Did you run the self test from the menu?, as the power-up one doesn’t check everything, the full self test didn't tell me anything I didn't already know when mine failed (AC mode related faults, due to tants  ), but would still be worth checking.

The other thing I did was add some insulation, between the reed relay and spark gaps on the front end, they can flash over on the older ones, due to limited the clearance & the reed relay having a painted metal cover.

David

[factory]

A few years ago I missed a HP 185B oscilloscope on feeBay, well another one appeared for sale recently, like the previous one it's a bit worse for wear, but I can't complain too much as these aren't exactly common, even less common in the UK. The plug-in is a 188A (4000 MC), with Genrad input connectors, which is probably better than trying to obtain adaptors for the hard-wired probes, used by the more common plug-ins. https://hparchive.com/Journals/HPJ-1964-04.pdf



Also picked up a nice SE Labs counter on the way, which seems to work just fine too. 





And last night I won a HP 3722A noise generator, it was listed under a strange category, not under "test equipment", but under "Pro Audio Synthesisers & Sound Modules", will add some pictures when it arrives.

David

[Vince]

Wow that's one hell of a boat anchor... my old Tek scopes look "compact" in comparison 
The SE lab counter looks very nice too, didn't know about this brand. The Niksee tubes and ivory piano buttons look very nice over the black face plate, love it...

[Vince]

Did you run the self test from the menu?, as the power-up one doesn’t check everything, the full self test didn't tell me anything I didn't already know when mine failed (AC mode related faults, due to tants  ), but would still be worth checking.

The other thing I did was add some insulation, between the reed relay and spark gaps on the front end, they can flash over on the older ones, due to limited the clearance & the reed relay having a painted metal cover.

David

I know squat about these meters... of course I have seen many videos and posts on here about them, but forgot most of it since I didn't actually own one...

So thanks for the help. I just downloaded a couple manuals for the thing, so I know how to proceed to run the full auto-test.
Found a French manual, 228 pages and no schematics. Then found an English manual, only 168 pages but somehow it does have the schematics... I don't understand.

Anyway, looks like the full tests can be run via the System menu or at power up if you hold the shift key for a bit.  Tried both methods just in case !

I am glad to report that I ran the tests half a dozen times and each time I got nothing but "PASS" in return ! 

[nonius_]

[Vince] A friend just sent me a FREE HP 34401A bench DMM !

Wish I had friends like that! All mine ever give me is their broken equipment for me to repair.... 

[factory]

Wow that's one hell of a boat anchor... my old Tek scopes look "compact" in comparison 
The SE lab counter looks very nice too, didn't know about this brand. The Niksee tubes and ivory piano buttons look very nice over the black face plate, love it...

This boat anchor is slightly longer than the 130C and just over double the weight, I do know it uses the same type of CRT as the 130C & 120B, but the standard one for the 185B is supposed to be P2 phosphor (instead of P31).
There isn't really much online about them, the 188A (sampling) plug-in I can't find any other pictures of, it's currently stuck in place until I can get round to opening the scope & un-seize the fixing rod.

SE Labs test gear doesn’t seem to be very easy to find, I do however have a DVM from them too, that one has problems.



I've also seem another counter branded SE in Germany a while back, but that one appeared to be another badge engineered counter (possibly from Tabor), I own an Advance counter in the same style and have seen a few Ballantine counters that look similar, I guess the SE brand disappeared shortly after this.

David

[Vince]

[Vince] A friend just sent me a FREE HP 34401A bench DMM !

Wish I had friends like that! All mine ever give me is their broken equipment for me to repair.... 

Yeah I too used to have many of these "friends" ! One day I told them I was no longer willing to work 50 hours on my free time to fix their old shit for  a pat in the back ! somehow all these "friends" have now disappeared ! Good riddance...  Friends or other-wise, I prefer quality over quantity...

[Vince]

This boat anchor is slightly longer than the 130C and just over double the weight, I do know it uses the same type of CRT as the 130C & 120B, but the standard one for the 185B is supposed to be P2 phosphor (instead of P31).
There isn't really much online about them, the 188A (sampling) plug-in I can't find any other pictures of, it's currently stuck in place until I can get round to opening the scope & un-seize the fixing rod.

Not sure just yet, but in my downsizing endeavour, I might consider parting with my 120B and 130C scopes. Of course the CRT in the 120B is broken which was why I got the 130C. I might try to get the 130C running (have not touched it yet. Seller said he lost the trace suddenly, so maybe THT failure...). Anyway, if you want the CRT of other parts, let me know.

[TERRA Operative]

@Vince, here's where I buy my bumpers and handles, bought a good number over time and always a good product:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/177760378635

Or if you prefer the older type handle:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/267623997465

If you find anyone selling the older bumpers and handle as a set, let me know.


Also, if you decide to replace the VFD, go buy one of these, they are really good:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hp-agilent-34401a-vfd-to-led-display-conversion/msg6097949/#msg6097949

[Zoli]

..
Oh, got extremely lucky for a change, unbelievably lucky.

A friend just sent me a FREE HP 34401A bench DMM !
...

What is the revision(Menu->SYS->Revision)?

[dazz1]

Hi
The  latest addition to my electronic test equipment collection..
An Agilent 33120A 15MHz Function / Arbitrary Waveform Generator.  Probably the youngest member of my  collection.

Never used one before.
Never needed one before.
Never owned one before. 
Now I have one.

Is it practical to DIY retrofit the options and populate the empty BNC ports?

[m k]

Need to check the rest of the features now,

Check air gap between surge protector and red capacitor near front/rear switch.
High voltage can jump and burn a hole to capacitor.

[factory]

That is not a capacitor, it's the reed relay I mentioned.

[wkb]

That is not a capacitor, it's the reed relay I mentioned.

See here...