Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Vince]

Yes Americans / Canadians need to be told not to stuff their fingers in the power outlets, as if it's not obvious.
Thank god no such shit here, at least for now. May it long continue that way...

Germans (and presumably others) have to be told not to let their toddlers poke knitting needles in the holes.

Well that's sad...

[mnementh]

Oh, then you have the "switch with a pilot light" thing... where it glows faintly (or brightly, as the one above) when off so you can find it in the dark. 

No, never saw there over here. I have just have regular unmarked switches. Two regular ones and the third internally has a special function, 4 poles, two lines going trough it, and when you flick it it permutes the two lines. But from the outside it looks jus like the two other switches, un marked, you just can"t tell.
I don't know how this arrangement is called in English.. "va et vient " in French. Anyway, nothing fancy.

Here is a wiring diagram for that. The two regular switches at either end, which makes a traditionnal two way va-et-vient, then to extend it to a 3 way like I have, then the third switch is the one in the middle, it permutes  the two lines linking the two outter switches. Simple, just works. I hear it's judged obsolete here now, but who cares, it's cheap simple and it works.

But at least over here, the light switches that have ON and OFF molded into the switch have ON in the UP position, so that kindof makes it pretty clear. They make it so we mere users don't have to think aboot such things; and when we do, there are always guys like Bob Vila to give even the most hopeless home-fixers among us the basics so we shouldn't be killing ourselves.

mnem
 

Yes Americans / Canadians need to be told not to stuff their fingers in the power outlets, as if it's not obvious.
Thank god no such shit here, at least for now. May it long continue that way...

Switches here are unmarked. There is no need to do so : if you enter a dark room, you can't see what would be written on it anyway ! Plus, if it's dark and you want light, who cares what position the switch is in ? You just flick it the other way and that's it, obvious !
Do you think I look at the marking on my Tek scopes power switch ? No ! If I want to power it up and it's not already doing so, I just flick it the other way that's all ! 

It's funny how people can drive a car at 16 and kill people on the streets, own guns and go shopping with them, yet somehow they are judged too stupid to figure out how to operate a light switch or that high voltages can be dangerous ?! 

What you have there in your living room is just standard 2 way switching like you would have on a staircase, but with an intermediate switch inserted in the middle of the 2 strappers to provide a switching function on the third, fourth and any subsequent doors on that circuit. Where you would typically come across the use of 2 more intermediate switches would on a corridor which rooms of it, like a school for instance.

This is usually called a "three-way switch" or "4-way switch" because of the three or four connections (seriously) and the fact that the people who use and install them ('merkin sparkies) and those who sell them aren't always the brightest bulb in the box. If you ask at homeowner hell for a SPDT or DPST reversing light switch, they'll look at you like your head just sprouted horns.

However... as part of my Electronics Tech training, we actually did spend a couple months working with the Electrical Engineering/Electricians trade track, one of the things they taught us was that UP=ON is the correct way to wire a switch, and that applies even to these SPDT/DPST reversing switches: As long as you observe local regs re: color-coding and not "creatively repurposing" the unsheathed GND wire, you can wire these as you see fit, as long as when you're done, all switches in the circuit path UP=ON.

mnem
 

[Vince]

Here is a wiring diagram for that. The two regular switches at either end, which makes a traditionnal two way va-et-vient, then to extend it to a 3 way like I have, then the third switch is the one in the middle, it permutes  the two lines linking the two outter switches. Simple, just works. I hear it's judged obsolete here now, but who cares, it's cheap simple and it works.

What you have there in your living room is just standard 2 way switching like you would have on a staircase, but with an intermediate switch inserted in the middle of the 2 strappers to provide a switching function on the third, fourth and any subsequent doors on that circuit.

Thank you. Sure sounds a lot better with the correct English way of describing it... I did what I could with my limited vocabulary !

[0culus]

In other news, getting the marker off the panel of the Harrison supply is proving to be rather difficult. Also the label removal gorillas got to the same general area. 

[mnementh]

Also quite frankly Jim Williams was a liability in two areas. One being the amount of crud falling or poking into the vents on his kit causing an electrocution hazard. Secondly licking the solder. 

Workbench Russian roulette!

Empirical Darwinist Engineering... 

mnem
...you ship whatever you design that doesn't kill you before you get it working.

[xrunner]

In other news, getting the marker off the panel of the Harrison supply is proving to be rather difficult. Also the label removal gorillas got to the same general area. 

Doubt I can give any advice you wouldn't already know, but good luck.

[mnementh]

A clean bench means you aren't being productive. 

Yea! Let's do this all day! 

Jim was a designer landmark, but they heydays of Bronx style hacking with THT components are now over. His style just does not work anymore with flyshit size SMD parts. Same for Bob Pease.

A lot of design tricks can still be learned from their appnotes. The building style is passé, however. Sniff.

*raises a paw* Ummm... I still do a lot of deadbug using SMD... and one of my favorite tricks is a voltage divider made of 2 SMD resistors stacked in a A-frame like when you build a house of cards with a flylead at the apex. If you can't build out because of space constraints, build up.

mnem
*toddles off to move a bookcase*

[bd139]

Yep. Tombstones. SMD proto is a piece of piss. One of mine:

[0culus]

In other news, getting the marker off the panel of the Harrison supply is proving to be rather difficult. Also the label removal gorillas got to the same general area. 

Doubt I can give any advice you wouldn't already know, but good luck.

I finally won with acetone. 

[Wolfgang]

Yep. Tombstones. SMD proto is a piece of piss. One of mine:

As long its 1206, fine. Everything a lot smaller (e.g., 0402) - forget it unless you have a robot hand and eagles eyes.

I am simply too old for smaller stuff. But I often find some friends who will build my circuits. So I'm fine.

[bd139]

I can do 0603 fine now 

[Robert763]

I digging in the garage earlier today looking for some turbine oil* and came across the bag pictured:
Well Anchor are a shadow of their former selves and the bag didn't contain anything from them. It did contain some Fluke bits. I remembered having some Fluke sares in a Anchor bag but literally haven't looked in it in over 13 years and then only briefly.
Another photo of the contents.
Yes a 8022B (marked under-reads and bleeding display) and two 8060As.One of these was marked incomplete by somone else and the other is one I had at least 25 years ago (the little green sticker is a ThrustSSC customs mark). Both the 8060As are missing the display. However the bag marked with a red star contains a NOS Fluke display upgrade kit  . I vaugly remember placing an oreder for spares with Fluke UK on the phone (pre internet) and bing told tey only had two kits left so I bought both of them. Looks like I'm going to have another 8060A working 

* I need the oil for my Honeywell APU which is my next project  once I've finished the FRK Rb Clock.




 

[Wolfgang]

I can do 0603 fine now 

Congrats ! Want to build some of my stuff ? Just asking ... 

[Cubdriver]

Fortunately it seems that the hurricane has been downgraded to a tropical storm, and has also tracked well east of me - have been getting steady rain with intermittent downpours all day, but thankfully no crazy wind.  Fingers crossed it stays fairly calm.

I've been playing around with an old HP 606A Signal Generator that followed me home yesterday; working to get the tuning turrets unstuck and get it up and running.  It has a very clever drive system for the tuning caps - a cable running from an idler shaft with a spring loaded collar to keep things in tension goes up to the tuning dial shaft where it wraps a few turns around a split pulley that pinches it at the center to maintain alignment, then goes up around a larger pulley on the coupled (but insulated from one another by a plastic coupling) tuning cap shafts (where timing is maintained by a crimped on metal sleeve that engages a recess in the pulley face) and thence to the spring collar on the idler shaft.  No more complex than it needs to be (no gears or chains, just a plastic covered cable), and fifty-some-odd years later it still just works.



-Pat

[mansaxel]

It did contain some Fluke bits.

Cool! I've spent some Fluke 80xx Series Rabbit Hole Time recently. My collection includes 8021, 8022b, and 2 off 8060a. Naturally, the 8060s are les pièces de la resistànce, but the Completeness Fever is luring, and I've been ogling vintage 8024 and other models too. Has to be cheap, though.

I need the oil for my Honeywell APU which is my next project  once I've finished the FRK Rb Clock.

This will need pictures.  In my "dreams time" I'm planning my retirement boat, and my current madness amounts to gas turbine-electric high power propulsion with a diesel-electric low speed alternative, seeing as gas turbines only are efficient at near full load. Full load is not going to happen on canals and rivers (although the jury is out on upstream travel on the Rhine; it's reported to be something of a struggle. ) so an efficient "5 knots" machinery option is important.

[bd139]

I can do 0603 fine now 

Congrats ! Want to build some of my stuff ? Just asking ... 

Drink a beer or two first. Helps both with the jiggles and the confidence 

[Specmaster]

Anyone in the North of the UK, around or near to Macclesfield then you might find this piece of very rare TE of interest, particularly if you're also an RF type of guy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393519090442

[Cerebus]

I can do 0603 fine now 

I had settled on 0805 as my standard size.

I happen to have on hand a reel of 0603 100nF capacitors that I picked up for a song during the run up to the last component famine - I'd rather have bought 0805 at the time but thinking "beggars can't be choosers" I went ahead and got the 0603 while I could. Now I've had a bit more practice stuffing SMD parts onto boards, and in particular that I've had no more real difficulty placing 0603 than placing 0805s, I'm beginning to:

• Wonder whether I was right targeting 0805 as my 'standard' size and perhaps should have targetted 0603 instead
• Wonder whether I'm being over cautious and whether, if I get some practice in with 0402, that I'll be just as happy at that size.

I'm beginning to regard 1206 or 1210 size components as giants.

[Cerebus]

I can do 0603 fine now 

Congrats ! Want to build some of my stuff ? Just asking ... 

Drink a beer or two first. Helps both with the jiggles and the confidence 

However, do not try reflowing boards after dribbling rum on them!

[mansaxel]

For the UK crowd, especially Cerebus, this might be of interest. eBay auction: #393343336397. NAWTS.

Envy story: Guy I worked with last night has a microphone case with 24, yes, 24, AKG C535EB.

[bd139]

I can do 0603 fine now 

I had settled on 0805 as my standard size.

I happen to have on hand a reel of 0603 100nF capacitors that I picked up for a song during the run up to the last component famine - I'd rather have bought 0805 at the time but thinking "beggars can't be choosers" I went ahead and got the 0603 while I could. Now I've had a bit more practice stuffing SMD parts onto boards, and in particular that I've had no more real difficulty placing 0603 than placing 0805s, I'm beginning to:

• Wonder whether I was right targeting 0805 as my 'standard' size and perhaps should have targetted 0603 instead
• Wonder whether I'm being over cautious and whether, if I get some practice in with 0402, that I'll be just as happy at that size.

I'm beginning to regard 1206 or 1210 size components as giants.

There's a curve where there is an intersection of "these parts are really cheap" and "I've lost half a cut tape of parts in the carpet" which is a sweet spot of efficiency for hand building. 0603 / 0805 is about the middle.

[factory]

Vintage Multimeter for the brave? Who'd be willing to measure 5kV (AC or DC) with this meter and these probes?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/224547972795

McBryce.

Already have a pair of Windsor (export brand of Taylor) 88A meters, one has a working 5kV AC range & the other a working 5kV DC range. Probably should buy some replacement resistors to fix them, or swap them to get one of the pair fully working.


If I need to measure more than 5kV I have this electrostatic meter. 


David

P.S. I do have a small-ish Triplett similar to the one in the ePay link, but not sure exactly which one.

Well apparently the Triplett VOM I have is the same type as the ePay listing (666H) and in better condition once cleaned, no missing screws or blown resistors.
Can't remember what I paid but it wouldn't have been more than £20, the leads are a bit past their best, but what do you expect for something made in 1943?


A quick look inside and comparing it with that one in the ePay link, I can comment that any buyer won't be able to measure 5kV as a resistor is snapped in two. 





All cleaned up and it clearly needs some work, as the battery being checked should measure 8.9V, not 6.6V.


Size comparison with a modern DMM.


David

[Robert763]

It did contain some Fluke bits.

Cool! I've spent some Fluke 80xx Series Rabbit Hole Time recently. My collection includes 8021, 8022b, and 2 off 8060a. Naturally, the 8060s are les pièces de la resistànce, but the Completeness Fever is luring, and I've been ogling vintage 8024 and other models too. Has to be cheap, though.

I need the oil for my Honeywell APU which is my next project  once I've finished the FRK Rb Clock.

This will need pictures.  In my "dreams time" I'm planning my retirement boat, and my current madness amounts to gas turbine-electric high power propulsion with a diesel-electric low speed alternative, seeing as gas turbines only are efficient at near full load. Full load is not going to happen on canals and rivers (although the jury is out on upstream travel on the Rhine; it's reported to be something of a struggle. ) so an efficient "5 knots" machinery option is important.

One below
shows it in the back of SWMBO's Focus. She was not amused when she came out and found me unloading it 
The Focus has a flat floor and my car at the time had a step in the rear floor. It was hard enough unloading it single handed from the Ford, I'd never have got it over the step on mine.
It's a Honeywell (Garrett /Airesearch) GTCP36-150RR from a Fokker F28-100. It's a fully dressed engine with 40kW generator, starter HEIU all sensors. It even has the cooling ducts wiring harness and mounting frame. This tells me it was removed from an aircraft being scrapped, not because it was faulty. The only thing is that it is electronically controlled and I don't have the ECU. However the control element is a simple current driven torque motor so fairly simple The problem I had was not knowing what the control current range was. A recent German (BFU) accident report on an F28 APU failure (due to spraying de-icing fluid into the intake) referenceed a much older American (NTSB) report. I looked at that and it mentioned they tested the ECU. I checked the NTSB online "docket" and it contained the ECU test report from Honeywell. The report included the printout from the automatic test equipment and that had the torquer test currents 
So nesx move is a good physical check, change the oil, add basic instrumentation (RPM and EGT), fuel valve and starter connections and a manually controlled current source for the torquer and then wake up the locals time     
After that it's build a proper control unit.
This is my seventh small gas turbine but the only one I have now. Not sure what I'll do with it but a hybrid electric car is a possibility. As a minimum it will be exhibited as a stationary engine at shows.   

[factory]

Anyone in the North of the UK, around or near to Macclesfield then you might find this piece of very rare TE of interest, particularly if you're also an RF type of guy?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/393519090442

On my watch list  , I regularly buy from that seller, picked up a very rusty* item from them last weekend, before going to the Astle Steam rally.


*Actually what I would call Forth Bridge condition, as when I lived not to far from there, there were reports of locals under the bridge finding chucks of iron oxide in their gardens, this was in the late 1990's.

David

[Cerebus]

There's a curve where there is an intersection of "these parts are really cheap" and "I've lost half a cut tape of parts in the carpet" which is a sweet spot of efficiency for hand building. 0603 / 0805 is about the middle.

• I always do my part stuffing at the living room table, where there is a reasonably clear wooden floor. A combination of that and the "shine a torch sideways across the floor" trick means that I'm:
  
  • Doing pretty well on the "lost parts count" front, and
  • acutely aware quite how much dust, fluff and other crap is on the living room floor.
• I'm occasionally and casually trying to mentally design a tray that parts don't b^o_uⁿ_ce off but that still has a smooth ESD safe surface and with a lip that will catch parts as they try to ping off into the distance.
  
  JLC use the used backing boards from PCB drilling as the flat, rigid packing for stencils.  I was using the one that came with my stencil as my working surface (nice and smooth, neutral grey) when stuffing boards the other day. One part tried to get away from me, but got trapped in the registration holes that go through the edge of the backing board as it tried to skitter off. Thus it strikes me that perforated hardboard might make quite a good margin for an SMD hand assembly area as a part catcher.