Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
270 (27.8%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
442 (45.5%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
48 (4.9%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
48 (4.9%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
164 (16.9%)

Total Members Voted: 797

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 3499230 times)

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Offline daves

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2375 on: December 15, 2013, 09:58:56 pm »
...
Nice told. I agree. Anyway for thermal imaging we do not need 30fps and for killing people we do not need thermal cameras  :box:
I just wanted to point out, that if someone want 30fps for any reason, there are many legal TICs out there  :-//

About the FLIR E4... Its working great, but yesterday I went out for taking some photos. I took about 20 pictures and camera turned off. And I could not power it on for about 20 seconds. After that, camera turned on and worked well. Besides this I have not seen any problems mentioned here - noise, ghosts... nothing like this. I am using enhanced menu.

Batch Thermal Images Editor (JPG, BMT, SNP, IRI, ISI, IS2, PGM, TIF, IMG, BMP):  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg350556/#msg350556
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2376 on: December 15, 2013, 10:04:08 pm »
I don't THINK temperature is used for charge termination (like Ni-cad or Ni-Mh are), but may be there to terminate charge IF the temperature increases.
AIUI the thermistor is used both for overtemp cutout, and also to prevent starting charging at low temps, which I believe can cause problems like being on fire.
Yes that is correct.  For NORMAL charging though, voltage limiting and current limiting is normally used for Li-Ion.
Nice to see that Flir's design incorporates battery failure and protection as well!

Similar temperature monitoring is used in laptop battery pack charge controllers also.  They probably charge the battery at a high rate (there is a limit though), and monitor the temperature to control charge current as well as low temperature.
The key is to make SURE that charge voltage NEVER exceeds 4.2-4.25... this seems to be the magic voltage for Li-Ion cells from what I have read.
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2377 on: December 15, 2013, 10:09:14 pm »
Just a note (about a possible crash).
I was charging my battery in the Flir and did the "press right and left to see the charge progress" and it displayed the percentage and current below the battery icon.

Then about 2-3 minutes later (I wasn't keeping track of the time though), the screen went dark.
I pressed a couple of buttons including the power button and the display never came back.
I used a flashlight to try and light up the display and saw a typical windows error box in the display but couldn't read what it said.  No button pushing would clear the display even though there was a X in the upper right corner (typical windows "close window" box).

Had to r/r the battery to reset it.
I'll try it again and see if I can get it to crash and try and read the message.
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2378 on: December 15, 2013, 10:15:25 pm »
Terminals for battery are:

reference picture...

Left  bat v+  (I measured 4.2v on fully charged battery)
Center bat common
Right  10K (at R.T.) to bat. common
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2379 on: December 15, 2013, 10:39:19 pm »
@daves,

No worries, others have asked the same question and I have explained some of it.  I have no problem with the topic of frame rate limitations and was happy to recreate some of what I previously deleted. It may help explain the situation to those unaware.

It may also be of interest to some that FLIR already have a significant problem in that their FPA appears to output an unadulterated 320x240 60fps signal. Such would appear to be a breach of the applicable regulations  ;) (limiting is supposed to be done 'on die').
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 10:44:41 pm by Aurora »
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2380 on: December 15, 2013, 10:50:23 pm »
OH BOY!!!  Are the flood gates going to open now!
Thanks for the info!
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2381 on: December 15, 2013, 11:08:40 pm »
How hard is it to get an ITAR export license anyway? Is it just signing some papers, or are there many legal hoops to jump through?

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2382 on: December 15, 2013, 11:18:59 pm »
For an E4 the only requirement is that there is a paper trail to the end user, i.e a delivery address and name.

For a 320x240 pixel 60fps camera, a seller has to complete some paperwork, submit it to the appropriate authority (BIS in USA?). A licence is then issued for export out of the USA to the licenced recipient. Export without the licence is a federal offence which is why you will see US sellers only shipping to US Citizens in the USA. They don't want to risk any problems with their government. Others are unaware of the regulations and innocently ship equipment. On an individual sale, action is unlikely. If you were to sell a thousand without a licence the situation would likely be very different.

I know of no prosecutions for selling thermal camera technology without a licence. I am aware of a case in the UK where a chap was dealing in high technology weapons grade batteries and wishing to ship to an inappropriate customer without the required licences. He was extradited to the USA and I believe he is serving 3 years in prison as a result of his actions  :scared:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Tappin

FLIR do all the licence applications etc. as part of a purchase. The licence requirement is often lost/ignored on the used market. Other companies charge quite large sums of money to do the licence application etc. I have seen $300 charged.

Selling into Europe is straight forward especially if its is a single item. Selling into areas of international tension could be a little more challenging as the recipient of the technology needs to have a traceable security footprint.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 11:25:51 pm by Aurora »
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2383 on: December 15, 2013, 11:33:03 pm »
Other companies charge quite large sums of money to do the licence application etc. I have seen $300 charged.

I've seen an ebay dealer quoting $2500, but presumably because they don't want to do it.
I've also seen a report from a European who was unable to get an export license as they were  a private individual and not a company, though again this could have been a seller not wanting to take the risk
 
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2384 on: December 15, 2013, 11:42:10 pm »
@pomonabill221

If you are referring to my comment on the output of the micro-bolometer module, it was Mike who discovered the 320x240 60fps data streams coming out of the module way back in October. It would not be trivial for a non specialist to turn the data stream into video. There are those with the skills in this forum community though. It is my understanding that the module should not be outputting such a 60fps signal but maybe FLIR have an agreement to do so. I have no inside knowledge of this but industry insiders are surprised at the 60fps discovery.
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2385 on: December 16, 2013, 12:17:06 am »
@pomonabill221

If you are referring to my comment on the output of the micro-bolometer module, it was Mike who discovered the 320x240 60fps data streams coming out of the module way back in October. It would not be trivial for a non specialist to turn the data stream into video. There are those with the skills in this forum community though. It is my understanding that the module should not be outputting such a 60fps signal but maybe FLIR have an agreement to do so. I have no inside knowledge of this but industry insiders are surprised at the 60fps discovery.
OK sorry then... credit for find this goes to Mike then!

Yes this IS surprising that Flir has the high framerate output "available" even though it isn't used... YET!
 

Offline nersut

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2386 on: December 16, 2013, 12:20:17 am »
I created a step-by-step guide with pictures how to permanently upgrade i3 & i5 to i7 specs & how to add the extra measurements menu.

Quote
That's very professional looking guide there. How much resolution you were able to get from i3/i5?

Hi nacke

I have now 120x120 resolution with my i3 which normally have 60x60. It's 4 times more, but I really hope that someone could find a fix/hack to open all the available 320x240 sensor in the iX-series.  :-+
 

Offline nacke

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2387 on: December 16, 2013, 12:24:17 am »
But is there really 320x240 on i-Series? Where did you find that out.
 

Offline nersut

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2388 on: December 16, 2013, 12:28:32 am »
Hi everyone

I created a step-by-step guide with pictures how to permanently upgrade i3 & i5 to i7 specs & how to add the extra measurements menu.

Link: http://www.filedropper.com/howtoupgradeyourfliri3ori5toi7specsextramenu_1

Cheers
Erik
Thanks - I'll add a link to this post from the start of the thread - if you update it, update this message so the link will stay valid.

Hi Mike

Your welcome! Sure, I will update the message if the link should change.
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2389 on: December 16, 2013, 12:31:51 am »
Silly question, but it is possible to increase the temperature range of the E4? I seem to recall a few posts about it, but I don't remember if anything ever came out of the discussion.

Offline nersut

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2390 on: December 16, 2013, 12:32:46 am »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2391 on: December 16, 2013, 12:32:59 am »
The  Mk2 i7 (the black one) uses a 320x240 microbolometer limited to 140x140 but I have not seen comment on the Mk1 i7 (Blue/grey two tone). The following study refers:

http://www.i-micronews.com/upload/Rapports/Yole_FLIR_ISC0601B_Micro-bolometer_Sample.pdf

Interestingly, there is an error in the system plus document to be found here:

http://www.systemplus.fr/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MEMSTrends_2012_10_N12_systemplus.pdf

It shows a blue/grey i7 in the picture yet states 140x140 resolution. The Blue/grey i7 is the Mk1 with 'only' 120x120 resolution.

http://infraredcameras.net.au/thermalimagers/flir-i7-review

No idea whether they used the same micro-bolometer in the Mk1 and Mk2 models.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 12:50:20 am by Aurora »
 

Offline nersut

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2392 on: December 16, 2013, 12:50:02 am »
The  Mk2 i7 (the black one) uses a 320x240 microbolometer limited to 140x140 but I have not seen comment on the Mk1 i7 (Blue/grey two tone). The following study refers:

http://www.i-micronews.com/upload/Rapports/Yole_FLIR_ISC0601B_Micro-bolometer_Sample.pdf

My i3 is black & calibrated this year (2013), so it should be a Mk2, but I can "only" get 120x120 instead of 140x140...  :-//

Here is a timeline from http://www.optimumenergy.com/the-new-flir-i-series/

« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 01:29:43 am by nersut »
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2393 on: December 16, 2013, 02:10:58 am »
Silly question, but it is possible to increase the temperature range of the E4? I seem to recall a few posts about it, but I don't remember if anything ever came out of the discussion.

Not entirely sure what you mean here. You can manually set the temperature range + span. But not outside of the specifications AFAIK.
 

Offline pomonabill221

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2394 on: December 16, 2013, 07:12:13 am »
Just "updated" another E4 with the "upgrade" and the menu changes!
E4 v1.0
sn 63907xx
cal date 11/21/13
Yet ANOTHER happy customer!
 

Offline nacke

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2395 on: December 16, 2013, 07:33:16 am »
Not entirely sure what you mean here. You can manually set the temperature range + span. But not outside of the specifications AFAIK.

I thought this too, Ex0s measure to 650 C and sensor is the same. Might be hard to modify though.
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2396 on: December 16, 2013, 09:20:14 am »
ok, let's take this image
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg340938/#msg340938


this thread is long, further informations for using exiftool you find here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg343791/#msg343791


you can split the pipe for debugging

//extract Raw Thermal Image
Code: [Select]
exiftool -b -RawThermalImage FLIR0080.jpg > t1.png

// swap byte order (here you have trouble)
Code: [Select]
convert t1.png pgm:- | convert -endian lsb pgm:- t2.pngor
Code: [Select]
convert t1.png gray:- | convert -depth 16 -endian msb -size 320x240 gray:- t2.pngor since IM 6.8.8 with switch png:swap-bytes
Code: [Select]
convert -define png:swap-bytes=on t1.png t2.png

// expand 16 Bit to visible range
Code: [Select]
convert t2.png -auto-level t3.png

// extract color table
Code: [Select]
exiftool FLIR0080.jpg -b -Palette > pal.raw
// swap Cb Cr
// convert for Windows: -colorspace sRGB | for MAC OSX: -colorspace RGB
Code: [Select]
convert -size 224X1 -depth 8 YCbCr:pal.raw -separate -swap 1,2 -set colorspace YCbCr -combine -colorspace RGB pal.png


// coloring the radiometric image with a color lookup table
Code: [Select]
convert t3.png pal.png -clut t4.png

We see that we have chosen the wrong colorspace (used above RGB)

// better results: sRGB
// and expand video pal color table from [16,235] to [0,255] with -auto-level
Code: [Select]
convert -size 224X1 -depth 8 YCbCr:pal.raw -separate -swap 1,2 -set colorspace YCbCr -combine -colorspace sRGB -auto-level pals.png
convert t3.png pals.png -clut t5.png


...ready

see here for more informations:
- use the Q16 version of imagemagick !!
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 08:13:54 pm by tomas123 »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2397 on: December 16, 2013, 11:04:31 am »
sorry, I only skimmed your post
>convert -version
Version: ImageMagick 6.8.7-9 Q8 x86 2013-11-28 http://www.imagemagick.org
Copyright: Copyright (C) 1999-2014 ImageMagick Studio LLC
Features: DPC OpenMP
Delegates: bzlib freetype jbig jng jp2 jpeg lcms lqr pangocairo png ps tiff webp xml zlib

you need the Q16 (16 bits-per-pixel) version of Imagemagick ;-)
(your t2.png is only 8 Bit)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:10:49 am by tomas123 »
 

Offline tomas123

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2398 on: December 16, 2013, 11:24:56 am »
the final post is my first post, but no one will find the post 2091  :-\

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072
I added the hint for Q16
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:26:38 am by tomas123 »
 

Offline daves

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #2399 on: December 16, 2013, 11:26:37 am »
I had problem with flir.php scipt, image was somehow corrupted.

Solution - I had wrong Convert version, need the Q16 (16 bits-per-pixel) version of Imagemagick ;-)

To all E4 owners - I recommend this script a lot. Gives you real 640x480 image with PiP resized IR image.

See original Flir MSX image  and then Image coming from flir.php (blur reduced to 0x1).
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 11:47:28 am by daves »
Batch Thermal Images Editor (JPG, BMT, SNP, IRI, ISI, IS2, PGM, TIF, IMG, BMP):  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg350556/#msg350556
 


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