Free Altium is Coming

[DerekG]

The blog is updated with some more information about where things are going

http://blog.circuitmaker.com/Blogs/circuitmaker-community-09-30-14

Quote from above webpage:

       "Work in progress projects will not be able to generate output files for production. In fact the process of ‘releasing’ a design generates the production files at the same 
         time."

Just as I posted here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/free-altium-is-coming/msg519931/#msg519931

Also from the above webpage:

      "it will be possible to pay for, or subscribe to, entirely private projects (stored online) allowing you to release them privately, generate production files, and in which case the     
       design IP remains entirely your own."

Just as I posted here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/free-altium-is-coming/msg518706/#msg518706

[Bored@Work]

I am a big open-source and open-hardware fan. But I also believe that a designer should at any time have the right to choose to release something as open-x or not. CircuitMaker gives you a hard time exercising that right to choose.

Should you change your mind while the project is unfinished from releasing it as open-hardware to closed-hardware your alternatives are:

- Drop the started project in CM, start over with the project in some other tool.

- Repeatedly pay Altium a ransom sum, so they keep your project private and allow you to generate private output.

- (Assuming this option is available at all) Pay Altium a ransom sum, so you get your project files in a readable and usable format you can import in another tool, then drop CM for the project.

By initially choosing CM you place yourself between a rock and a hard place when it comes to that choice. They have you over a barrel once you have invested some significant work in a design with CM.

Even if in the end you really want to release your work as OH, you might want to get a head start over the cloners. E.g. to benefit from being first on the market and to establish your brand. You have a problem with CM if you want to design in private, manufacture a first batch in private, sell the first batch, and then at some point in time release the design as OH.

Then there is the question how trustworthy Altium is, when they will give a shit about promises they make today. And how well their cloud thingy works. Oh, and do you really need that social junk to distract you from working on your own design?

Will schools love CM?

Maybe. Until the build-in, encouraged, easy cloning of existing projects becomes a bit of a problem. At least when they actually want to teach students to do things on their own and grade their work, and not grade work that students quickly cloned in CM. BTW, by choosing CM schools will implicitly force students to release their work as OH. An aspiring entrepreneur might not be too happy having to do that just so his the school can grade his project. And some (US) lawyer might find it an interesting case if schools can force students to put an OH license on their work, just so it can be graded.

Will people still use CM?

I think they will. Because there are enough people out there that won't think first. There are enough people out their thinking cloud is the best thing since sliced bread, and everything that isn't modern is bad, because it is old. And there are enough people out there who love to waste their time with that social junk. Altium knows why they target makers.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Will schools love CM?

Only if they provide some good training materials, sample projects etc.
Otherwise schools will continue to use what each particular teacher happens to  know.

[neslekkim]

The question is, can it be marked as work in progress?, does the tool support more than one unfinished project?

One free private project per account.  If you want more, set up more accounts or pay for private designs.

Not my question this time, since there is only one private project, can the other projects be marked as work in progress, even if they are available for others?, so they arent going to be a source for others frustations?
I can newer have only one ball in the air at one time, I have multiple, and would newer be working on only one project..

[neslekkim]

The question is, can it be marked as work in progress?, does the tool support more than one unfinished project?

One free private project per account.  If you want more, set up more accounts or pay for private designs.

It doesn't have to be private to be marked as Work in Progress. I think that, if Dave is right and Altium are actually trying to listen to the community, there's a big chance they will make some kind of system to "cathegorize" the development state of your board, like marking it as WiP, Finished and Locked(so no more comments on "you could change that resistor value"), "Requesting Feedback", ... because that's something loads of people are concerned about and will cost Altium absolutely nothing. And I choose to believe that the community can be reasonably sensible to designs that are clearly marked as "not finished, not usable, in development", so you don't get a ton of comments like "your design is shit and I had it made and it didn't work...".

That would be very great, if I could put up all my ideas as WiP, and possible add my questions/issues there, if anyone care to comment or give suggestions, that could open up for an new level of learning experience.

[mikeselectricstuff]

‘Work in progress’ projects will not be able to generate output files for production. In fact the process of ‘releasing’ a design generates the production files at the same time.

That's just dumb. It's entirely likely you may want to make changes after looking at the gerbers.

[sca]

‘Work in progress’ projects will not be able to generate output files for production. In fact the process of ‘releasing’ a design generates the production files at the same time.

That's just dumb. It's entirely likely you may want to make changes after looking at the gerbers.

There's an awful lot of boards out there which don't appear to have been 'looked at' at any stage after hitting the 'Autoroute' button....


sca

[EEVblog]

And that is the idiocy of it for Altium. Their 2014 investors presentation document shows Altium in the middle of an 'end' triangle with arrows labelled expansion pointing upwards and downwards. They say they are going to expanding into the high end (with new features in the full package) and towards the low end.
CircuitMaker with it's stupid cloud only vault storage doesn't expand towards the low end, it targets a thin strip right at the bottom and pretty much guarantees no one above that strip will touch it.

Agreed. They very likely have screwed the pooch on that. And in true Altium tradition they will never admit it, even when it fails miserably.
Their plan was perfect, and the execution was 95% right. Unfortunately the 5% they got wrong could end up being 95% of the intended market.

I have no interest in CircuitMaker. I wouldn't touch it, but, I am pissed off about the possibility of subscription money I pay them being used to fund CircuitMaker instead of improving the product I do use.

You have no right to be pissed off at that.
Not even as shareholder really (because these things are expected companies), and certainly not if you just a customer. The problem is your perception of entitlement is skewed because Altium is (or was) essentially a one product company.

Altium seem to be so desperate to get someone using their vault technology that they are specifically targeting people who are not going to create anything of value and giving it to them for nothing with a cut down version of AD thrown in.

Altium have a history here of finding the 0.01% of customers who happen to make use of their new *insert wank feature here*, and then get them to do promo videos for them and testimonials etc. And then of course marketing ramp that up to the hilt - "See, our FPGA features ARE what the public wants, look at how wonderful it is for this company.
Of course it's not just Altium that does this, it's business marketing 101 stuff. But Altium's problem (and the new management now know it) is that Altium have the almost company destroying reputation of not giving a toss what the customers want. They are trying to change that now, but this cloud-only thing could ruin any progress they are making if they don't listen and at least concede something.

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

They seem to have picked up since the change of CEO.
Moved Rnd out of China, share price up, actually implement a strategy to get people using their tools.

I think they might be doing ok.

[Rigby]

They seem to have picked up since the change of CEO.
Moved Rnd out of China, share price up, actually implement a strategy to get people using their tools.

I think they might be doing ok.

I feel the same. 

Somehow a lot of people are pissed off because of this, for whatever reason.  We aren't entitled to the product we want; we choose amongst what is offered.  Here comes a new choice!  Let's get angry about it!!

Some here seem to think that Altium owes them something... That doesn't compute for me.

Altium is heading in a new direction, expanding PCB tools into new markets, and far too many of us are whining about it, after we've whined for years about how Altium doesn't go in any new directions or expand PCB tools into new markets.

A lot of us just want to complain, I think.

[DerekG]

Some here seem to think that Altium owes them something (with CircuitMaker) ... That doesn't compute for me.

Fully agree with you.

The only thing Altium owes its AD customers is to fix the bugs faster & to be truthful about when (or if) the bugs have been fixed.

[K6TR]

Some here seem to think that Altium owes them something (with CircuitMaker) ... That doesn't compute for me.

Fully agree with you.

The only thing Altium owes its AD customers is to fix the bugs faster & to be truthful about when (or if) the bugs have been fixed.

I concur. Altium like any other company is about 1 thing, making money. If they can please a few people along the way so much the better but that isn't their goal.

I see CircuitMaker as it exists as more of a training and indoctrination tool than anything else. If it increases the pool of trained operators the installed base of Designer Seat Purchasers will be that much happier. If they create a product that is essential the equal of Designer and can be purchased for under a thousand dollars one can bet PCB Design Operators will purchase a copy and go into business themselves starting off by raiding the client base of their employers. That will not make Altium's existing client base very happy with Altium.

[IanJ]

The cloud isn't for me, but the more I think about it I'm starting to think a LOT of people (beginners) might just like it just for it's ease of use, sharing boards and libraries, instant online community etc etc.

I half think that most folks here aren't in that category hence the moans & groans.

Hmmmm, maybe i've been working too hard........am I getting "Altiumized".

 

Ian.

[Precipice]

Given what some people seem to be happy putting up on Facebook, exposing your designs to all and sundry doesn't seem like such a big deal...
I think I'd be happy to expose my OSHW this way, and I don't particularly mind people seeing work in progress. I'm robust enough to ignore unhelpful comments, I hope. Obviously, secret stuff stays secret and done with full AD. I'm just hoping it's easy to import / export designs. If CM requires all components to be from their libraries and vaults, there's going to be a sheet with some wires and netlabels on it...

[Rufus]

I concur. Altium like any other company is about 1 thing, making money.

Historically Altium has been much better at loosing investor's money by spending large amounts of it developing things no one wants to buy. After the recent board shake up they are supposed to be getting better, the current CircuitMaker proposal says otherwise.

[Rigby]

I concur. Altium like any other company is about 1 thing, making money.

Historically Altium has been much better at loosing investor's money by spending large amounts of it developing things no one wants to buy. After the recent board shake up they are supposed to be getting better, the current CircuitMaker proposal says otherwise.

Well, they've sure existed a while for a company that loses more than they bring in, if that's what you're saying.

Lots of companies lose money on stupid efforts that everyone but the board saw coming. Seems unfair to single out any one company for that mistake.

[DerekG]

Lots of companies lose money on stupid efforts that everyone but the board saw coming. Seems unfair to single out any one company for that mistake.

Well, if everyone else saw it coming but the Altium board did not, it just goes to show that the Altium board is clearly incompetent.

I don't think they have been unfairly singled out. Altium is a high tech company that should know its market very well. They make dumb mistake after dumb mistake. They seem to never learn.

Their staff don't know how their software really works, they tell you bugs have been fixed when they have not.

We all thought things would get better after they dumped founding CEO Nick Martin ............. but little seems to have changed since his forced departure.

Yes, I use Altium software, but no I don't really like it & I do not like Altium the Company either.

[miguelvp]

Myself I'm waiting for Altium to let me try the software, I'm not going to make an opinion until I see it and use it.

Edit: and if they accept me to their closed or open beta, I'll do my best to give them feedback before they do their final release.

[Rigby]

Well, if everyone else saw it coming but the Altium board did not, it just goes to show that the Altium board is clearly incompetent.

They know lots of things about the internals of the company and directions and intentions and a bunch of crap the minions don't know a thing about.  This clouds things sometimes and makes things clear other times.  It's the same for any company.

Groups of people can talk themselves into anything.  Ask a jury member who's put an innocent person in jail just how easy it is.

[nixfu]

It seems to me a huge blunder is brewing by not just releasing it now. 

Everyone is talking about it and speculating, and it's all negative.  And people are forming opinions before they even see it. 

If they have something decent, then just release it already and people will stop the speculating and see for themselves if it's a good thing or not. 

I think its a big mistake for Altium to not to just get it out there and be done with it. 

[miguelvp]

I disagree.

Yeah people are eager and want it now, but it's in their best interest to do the close beta and their open beta before they release it.

The first impression of someone actually using it when it's a final product will turn people off it it's not a finished product and for that they do need to finish their beta.

It's like if you get an e-mail about a new super duper website, if it's not working the first time you visit it, chances are you'll never visit again.

[EEVblog]

Well, if everyone else saw it coming but the Altium board did not, it just goes to show that the Altium board is clearly incompetent.

Altium was never run by a board, it was run by one guy with "visions" who just liked playing with stuff.
One day you are working on something then word comes down that he had this great idea on the weekend and quick, everyone start working on that. The programmers were geniuses so they could get it working in days, and if it was cool enough it got shipped in the next beta, regardless if it was well thought through or well implemented, or useful to real customers.
So AD ended up with the legacy of half arse features and concepts buried in it all over the place.

We all thought things would get better after they dumped founding CEO Nick Martin ............. but little seems to have changed since his forced departure.

I doubt the focus on the low cost market would have happened with Nick still at the helm.

[Rigby]

The board kicked his ass to the curb, didn't they?

Sounds like they got tired of him.

[Batang]

I just finished watching a nauseating youtube video of Max discussing CircuitMaker complete with Google Speak.

Altium should get their collectives heads out of the Cloud and wake up to the fact that the people that will use this software are not into collaborative efforts.

Library components that can be shared ok, examples etc good but cloud saving as public files, dream on.

A stripped down AD14 without the bloat (FPGA etc) with either hole and or layer limits that resembles the actual product for those who would upgrade is a sensible approach.

Cheers.

[zapta]

A stripped down AD14 without the bloat (FPGA etc) ..

The FPGA stuff is not a bloat, it just misses the cloud integration ;-)