The Bad Shopping Experience Thread

[Simon]

Yes indeed!

[hp3310a]

So....

Normally I don't fall for this kind of stuff but my brain switched off some protection circuits at the just right moment because it absolutely had to have this HP 3458A on Ebay. For $1699.

It was a great deal, the unit was in great shape. And it wasn't real. Photos and text were lifted from an Ebay item sold a day earlier.

What is remarkable is that the seller managed to provide tracking via JCEX. Only, nothing was ever sent, the tracking (screenshot attached) is completely made up. This makes me believe that the seller has access to infrastructure at the shipping company and can inject tracking updates that appear real (save for typos and wonky grammar).

A day after the purchase I realized what I did and tried to alert Ebay to what is happening. They make this kind of report impossible. So the sale was on for almost a week and some copycat sales went live in the meantime, selling the apparently plentiful 3458A for as little as $900. I finally figured out how to get my purchase canceled but even after that, Ebay kept listing these items. Looks like they will sell anything, real or not, it will generate fees to collect in either case.

I wasn't the only one, in total this seller alone sold 8 units. The copycats sold some, too.

Unfortunately I can't just stop using Ebay, were else would I get my broken and dirty test equipment from?

[KungFuJosh]

Mouser has been shitting the bed lately. Lots of shipping delays, and slow customer service response time has been a problem.

I always get 2 day shipping to meet deadlines, or...sate my impatience. A couple packages were delayed and they said:

We process orders until 8 PM CST, please be advised the later the order is placed close to the cut off time it is not guaranteed to ship out same day.

I placed my next order at 3pm CST, and it took them 4 days to ship it. 


Now, they're also selling fake products. For example, I bought this: https://mou.sr/4oHV56l

I bought that because I wanted to try some "real" Kapton tape to compare to the generic knockoff "Koptan" stuff I bought from Amazon.

Of course, they sent the same generic "Koptan" tape instead. I emailed them:

Kapton tape is a trademarked brand, and I specifically ordered it to try the brand-name product.
 
Instead, I received a roll of generic “Koptan” tape:

 
I’m disappointed that Mouser would play such games. I expect better from you.

They replied:

Thank you for contacting Mouser Electronics.

Part number 392-100378 is manufactured by Soldered which is the brand, kapton tape is just the type of material not a brand. We have attached the datasheet for your reference.

Please let us know if you still wish to proceed with return request.

I replied that I still want to return it, and:

That’s false information.

Kapton is a trademarked brand name. “Kapton® is a registered trademark of E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company (now managed by Qnity Electronics) used to brand a family of high-performance polyimide films and tapes.”

Use of the Kapton brand name for products from other companies is false advertising, fraudulent, and trademark infringement. Doing so by mistake is forgivable, doing so intentionally is shameful and illegal.

From the USPTO website:

Their response doesn't even make sense. If there were any truth to it, then the tape would say Kapton instead of Koptan.


Anyway, I know this is a little silly, but at the same time, I expect a company like Mouser to sell genuine products. If they're using a trademarked brand name, they shouldn't be listing "Great Value Facial Tissues" as "Kleenex."

Are they going to become as untrustworthy as feeBay for real products?

Thanks,
Josh

[Kean]

Now, they're also selling fake products. For example, I bought this: https://mou.sr/4oHV56l

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.
I'd suggest returning it but also complaining to them - https://soldered.com/
They appear to just be a small "maker" company, and in this case reselling some cheap material from China to expand their product portfolio.

FYI, quality Polyimide tape is *quite* expensive, and the genuine "Kapton" stuff is not readily available.  It is actually a brand that covers quite a few different Polyimide film products with various properties and adhesives.  They probably don't sell through typical distribution, aiming at research/space/defence clients.  See https://www.qnityelectronics.com/kapton-polyimide-film.html

I have some 3M brand 92 Polyimide tape from "the before times" (circa 2008), and it cost me an arm and a leg (AUD $65 in 2008 for a 12mmx33m roll, now over $100 or about USD $70).  It was listed by Farnell/element14 as "Kapton" in the description but the 3M datasheet makes no mention of the trademark.  That particular product is no longer listed by them, but I have the email showing the Kapton brand name.  Farnell/element14 no longer mention Kapton in any product descriptions that I could find, but "Kapton" is a keyword/alias in their search that brings up matches for "Polyimide".  Digikey product search does the same.

In general it sucks that the trademark has been abused much like Kleenex, but I've found most of the low cost "Koptan" and similar is actually fine for typical usage and you probably only need to go to 3M or Qnity if you have really specific requirements.

[KungFuJosh]

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

It doesn't matter how many small brands abuse the trademark. If a company like Mouser resells the fraudulent products, then they are part of the problem.

I already complained, and I told them I want to return it. I've not heard back from them.

I don't even really care about the $6. It's the principal that matters: Don't sell fake products. Don't lie or mislabel items.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

[Sensorcat]

Don't lie

That is honorable, but unfortunately old-fashioned nowadays. It's sad that lying for short-term gain is becoming more common.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

There is a clean solution for this, for both manufacturers and customers. For example, Champagne may only be called by that name if it was produced in the Champagne region. Therefore, others describe their sparkling wine as "produced using the Champagne method."

[ballsystemlord]

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

It doesn't matter how many small brands abuse the trademark. If a company like Mouser resells the fraudulent products, then they are part of the problem.

I already complained, and I told them I want to return it. I've not heard back from them.

I don't even really care about the $6. It's the principal that matters: Don't sell fake products. Don't lie or mislabel items.
<snip>

I'm 100% in agreement here. The reason that we overpay for components from these companies (instead of buying from fleabay/aliextinct) is because they are genuine products from trusted sources.

[KungFuJosh]

Don't lie

That is honorable, but unfortunately old-fashioned nowadays. It's sad that lying for short-term gain is becoming more common.

I don't care about marketing hyperbole. If a product is labeled apples, and they ship me bananas, there's a problem. I don't care if they're both fruit.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

There is a clean solution for this, for both manufacturers and customers. For example, Champagne may only be called by that name if it was produced in the Champagne region. Therefore, others describe their sparkling wine as "produced using the Champagne method."

That's basically what I said- "Kapton style." The term types different, but they are both protected. Kapton is a registered trademark specifically protected from the abuse shown on Mouser's website. Champagne is not a trademark, but a globally protected indication of origin. Abuse of either is fraud.

[Kean]

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

Not really unless they did it knowingly.  I'm sure there is something in their T&Cs to cover that.  Even companies as large as Mouser and DigiKey cannot validate the claimed specifications of every product they list.  I am sure in a lot of cases adding products to their catalog is done by data entry staff, not engineers or product specialists.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was often done via a standard data import from data prepared by the supplier.  The product specialists would almost certainly be involved in the intake process of a new vendor/supplier, but unlikely they review every item being added.

BTW, I also see DigiKey list some products which have a product code containing the text KAPTON.  These are from Olimex based in Bulgaria, and they are also way too cheap to be the real stuff.

I don't care about marketing hyperbole. If a product is labeled apples, and they ship me bananas, there's a problem. I don't care if they're both fruit.

I've seen many errors in the listed product specifications as I have searched for things over the years, and many times I've used the feedback button to report errors.  They seem to be receptive to make corrections, but are not very fast at doing so (if ever).  Presumably this is because they follow up with the supplier to confirm.  Misuse of a trademark may get more of their attention.

They are also pretty good at handling returns in cases like this, or at least that is what I've heard as in all my years I have never had any cause to try.  The rare error is usually a missing item, or my fault and not valuable enough to return internationally.

[KungFuJosh]

Mistakes are one thing. After being informed of the error, they have a legal responsibility that goes beyond any of our opinions. At that point, the continued inappropriate use of a trademarked term becomes willful intent to defraud.

Mistakes are forgivable on a personal level if properly addressed. However, ignorance does not remove their legal requirements or responsibilities.

Beyond the legal issues surrounding this, that's shitty customer service.

On a separate note, in the past at least, I've informed them of errors on their website. They apologized, said they'd correct it, and might have refunded the part.