PCB design software with components autoplacers.

[james_s]

It's not 1990 anymore, it's 2019, almost 30 years later. Today there are multiple fully featured EDA tools that are completely free. Depressing as it is, time marches on, technology changes, expectations change. Software that would have been great 30 years ago is as quaint today as a horsedrawn carriage.

[nigelwright7557]

Well that's great and I hold no ill will toward you or your satisfied customers, however I don't think you're going to pick up many customers here, especially when most of us already have tools that work for us. Some cost a bundle, others are free, I don't personally see much point in something less capable that is in the "almost but not quite free" category but whatever, if it works for some people that's great. Not much point in continuing to debate here though, if anything this thread is likely to turn off potential customers. Many of whom might buy it on a whim to try it out, stop using it when they realize it has little to offer and then leave positive feedback because they got what they paid for and it was only the price of a latte so hardly worth quibbling over.

The number of free PCBCAD and low cost packages has grown massively since I first started in 1990.
I sold mine through Maplin for a few years.
Later I sold loads on ebay and my website  up until 2017. In fact I was pretty much the only one selling on ebay.
I was selling for £20 a go and sold hundreds.
Then in 2017 suddenly about 100 new adverts for PCBCAD software hit ebay and my sales dropped through the floor.
So I reduced price to below all of them but still sold less.
Selling the software now is just a hobby and one sale I get is one sale the others don't get. A bit spiteful but all s fair in business and war.

There are much easier ways of making money than ebay and I make my money on other ventures now.

[nigelwright7557]

It's not 1990 anymore, it's 2019, almost 30 years later. Today there are multiple fully featured EDA tools that are completely free. Depressing as it is, time marches on, technology changes, expectations change. Software that would have been great 30 years ago is as quaint today as a horsedrawn carriage.

DOS on Windows 10 ? That made me chuckle.
Its not the same DOS software  I wrote in 1990 !
It has moved on and been rewritten completely three times.
2000 Delphi pascal.
2008 C# .net framework
2012 C++ for greater speed.

I agree the screens do look a bit old Windows style but that's because I refuse to bung up the screens with masses of toolbars.
I prefer the screen area to be used for schematic and pcb's.
The functionality is accessed through main menu, one text toolbar (icon free zone) , quick keys and right click context menu's.

It has been an ongoing project with input from users and as I have gotten further into SMD lots of SMD friendly functions have been added.

[wraper]

PCBCAD software is complex even before you consider the software. Try laying out a PC motherboard and you will understand.

That's a poor excuse when you are trying to sell a product when another better free product exists.

I found it hilarious your mate being a Ultiboard user, thats £2200 ! mine is £4-99

Just as hilarious that you can get Kickad for nothing at all. Infinity times cheaper than yours. And it has "Undo".

[nigelwright7557]

PCBCAD software is complex even before you consider the software. Try laying out a PC motherboard and you will understand.

That's a poor excuse when you are trying to sell a product when another better free product exists.

I found it hilarious your mate being a Ultiboard user, thats £2200 ! mine is £4-99

Just as hilarious that you can get Kickad for nothing at all. Infinity times cheaper than yours.

I downloaded KICAD and it has excellent libraries.
However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.
I then visited their website and they talked about software updates being sent out but not being debugged. That's simply a horror story.
Imagine editing a pcb then the software crashes out !
My software is fully debugged before being sent out. But that's the difference between free and paid for software.
You pay your money and take your choice.

[wraper]

However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.

Knowing there is no "undo" function makes me give up on it even without trying. That's a functionality which basically every single piece of software has nowadays. Unless it's a game or some other entertainment sort of stuff.

[nigelwright7557]

However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.

Knowing there is no "undo" function makes me give up on it even without trying. That's a functionality which basically every single piece of software has nowadays. Unless it's a game or some other entertainment sort of stuff.

Its something  I never use, but I am not ham fisted with the keyboard !
My software, I decide what goes in.

The likes of KICAD free software kills off innovation.
Where's the profit in writing free software ? It simply makes the market less for "real" software companies who provide top quality software.
Also where's the drive to improve free software ? the software bloke isn't getting paid so why should he bother trying ?

I paid off my house and bough a new car with my profits.

[Black Phoenix]

Even games have undo, called rewind function. I remember some racing games as GRID and Forza Motorsports 3 to name a few.

[nigelwright7557]

Even games have undo, called rewind function. I remember some racing games as GRID and Forza Motorsports 3 to name a few.

I would hardly call CAD software a game, unless its KICAD !

[wraper]

However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.

Knowing there is no "undo" function makes me give up on it even without trying. That's a functionality which basically every single piece of software has nowadays. Unless it's a game or some other entertainment sort of stuff.

Its something  I never use, but I am not ham fisted with the keyboard !
My software, I decide what goes in.

Then I guess it's made for non humans. Are you an alien?

[nigelwright7557]

However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.

Knowing there is no "undo" function makes me give up on it even without trying. That's a functionality which basically every single piece of software has nowadays. Unless it's a game or some other entertainment sort of stuff.

Its something  I never use, but I am not ham fisted with the keyboard !
My software, I decide what goes in.

Then I guess it's made for non humans. Are you an alien?

I think in 28 years of writing the software I have been asked twice for an undo button.
I prefer to concentrate on more important things like good auto-placers and auto-routers.

[nigelwright7557]

Keep up the insults please I have sold about a dozen copies this week via the website.
Looks like some people have taste and know a good PCBCAD package when they see one and ignore all the bull on here !

[langwadt]

However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.

Knowing there is no "undo" function makes me give up on it even without trying. That's a functionality which basically every single piece of software has nowadays. Unless it's a game or some other entertainment sort of stuff.

Its something  I never use, but I am not ham fisted with the keyboard !
My software, I decide what goes in.

I see, you got the advanced course in marketing "how to take potential customer serious"

The likes of KICAD free software kills off innovation.
Where's the profit in writing free software ? It simply makes the market less for "real" software companies who provide top quality software.
Also where's the drive to improve free software ? the software bloke isn't getting paid so why should he bother trying ?

ohh cry me a river, ..

[nigelwright7557]

I see, you got the advanced course in marketing "how to take potential customer serious"

Your just dribbling now...……..

[Mechatrommer]

I have sold about a dozen copies this week via the website.

congratulation. your stategy to put advert/manual/screenshots example away seems to work... 3000+ customers and zero feedback. you admitted yourself to put those material will bring sale to floor level. yes EUR15 is expendable no doubt.

I prefer to concentrate on more important things like good auto-placers and auto-routers.

a demo will prove the worthiness of the effort. but then, there's no need for comments you do what you like. cheers.

[nigelwright7557]

I have sold about a dozen copies this week via the website.

congratulation. your stategy to put advert/manual/screenshots example away seems to work... 3000+ customers and zero feedback. you admitted yourself to put those material will bring sale to floor level. yes EUR15 is expendable no doubt.

I prefer to concentrate on more important things like good auto-placers and auto-routers.

a demo will prove the worthiness of the effort. but then, there's no need for comments you do what you like. cheers.

There is a link to demo software on the website.
There is a link to a demo video too.

In regards to KICAD.
What do you call a programmer who charges for his time ?  bright.
What do you call a KICAD programmer who does it for nothing ? a degree student just learning...….

[BravoV]

This thread reminds me of the old thread of DEX program with Iliya the programmer (ended up banned) ... which coincidentally free_electron was heavily involved too. 

[nigelwright7557]

This thread reminds me of the old thread of DEX program with Iliya the programmer (ended up banned) ... which coincidentally free_electron was heavily involved too. 

You always get one who after using the software for 10 minutes knows better than the bloke who wrote it for 28 years !
Being a software user doesn't make you a software engineer.
I have done it since 1981, so know what I am talking about.
Like I have said previously, I can buy a helicopter but it doesn't make me a pilot !

My software has been good enough for the likes of British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Aston Martin, Land Rover etc etc etc.
My software is in pretty much every telephone exchange in the uk.
Its probably in your car.
I did a lot for the military too so lets hope none of my rockets goes astray and disappears up his rear end !

[nigelwright7557]

The likes of KICAD free software kills off innovation.

The world we are live in is competitive, in certain degree, Narcism. If you can't compete free or cheap alternatives, you deserve to be phased out.

FYI, 3000 copies*5=15k. I wonder how can you pay off your house and car with 15k.

Its only been £5 recently, was previously between £20 and £50 depending on which version you bought.

With software you have to move around. Staying still with PCBCAD software is not the right thing to do.
That's why its always been a part time thing.
My main job has always been hardware and software design.
Whether that be embedded systems, website design or CRM systems. Thats where the real money is.
My best contract job was a job in telecoms and I got £10K for one months work.

[nigelwright7557]

Its only been £5 recently, was previously between £20 and £50 depending on which version you bought.

Still, that would be not much better than Ronald Weasley's family shed.

Not in the frozen north of Carlisle mate, it paid it off, it didn't pay for the whole thing.

[BravoV]

This thread reminds me of the old thread of DEX program with Iliya the programmer (ended up banned) ... which coincidentally free_electron was heavily involved too. 

You always get one who after using the software for 10 minutes knows better than the bloke who wrote it for 28 years !
Being a software user doesn't make you a software engineer.
I have done it since 1981, so know what I am talking about.
Like I have said previously, I can buy a helicopter but it doesn't make me a pilot !

My software has been good enough for the likes of British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Aston Martin, Land Rover etc etc etc.
My software is in pretty much every telephone exchange in the uk.
Its probably in your car.
I did a lot for the military too so lets hope none of my rockets goes astray and disappears up his rear end !

Too bad, as many had informed you, as this discussion is now turning into the "attitude" talks, not about the technical discussion about the program anymore. Pity that you're not mature enough to realize this. 

[nigelwright7557]

Too bad, as many had informed you, as this discussion is now turning into the "attitude" talks, not about the technical discussion about the program anymore. Pity that you're not mature enough to realize this. 

It wasn't me who started flaming the forum with lies about my software.

I should have realised sooner it was just designed to get my back up and get nasty and then get banned.

[Mr. Scram]

It wasn't me who started flaming the forum with lies about my software.

I should have realised sooner it was just designed to get my back up and get nasty and then get banned.

Do you design your software for yourself or as a tool for others?

[james_s]

What do you call a programmer who charges for his time ?  bright.
What do you call a KICAD programmer who does it for nothing ? a degree student just learning...….

That's quite an assumption you make there. I do hardware and firmware development for free on my own time because I enjoy it and I want to give back to the community that has given me things I use. I've also done it professionally for a living as do many other open source developers. In recent years CERN has started contributing to KiCAD development, pretty sure those guys know what they're doing.

Either way it's a bit silly belittle the developers of a professional level product that is clearly superior to what you are offering. Even if they were just foolish amateurs, they seem to have had no trouble implementing a fully functional undo-redo feature that performs well enough to be perfectly usable on a 10 year old PC.

Frankly it's the attitude that I find off-putting more than anything else. I'm still curious just what it is you hope to gain by making an ass of yourself in one of the biggest and most active engineering forums around.

[james_s]

I downloaded KICAD and it has excellent libraries.
However, I found it very user unfriendly and had loads of functions I have missing. I gave up with it pretty quickly.
I then visited their website and they talked about software updates being sent out but not being debugged. That's simply a horror story.
Imagine editing a pcb then the software crashes out !
My software is fully debugged before being sent out. But that's the difference between free and paid for software.
You pay your money and take your choice.

What are you talking about? What functions are missing? How often has KiCAD crashed on you? I'm genuinely curious because I've been using it for around 10 years, I've designed several (low volume) commercial products with it and many dozens of hobby PCBs. I've often had several copies of it running for months at a time with various back burner hobby projects and I can't think of a single time when it has crashed. Sure there is the nightly build if you are an enthusiast and want to play software tester but for the rest of us there is the stable release.

There is loads of paid software out there that is absolute garbage, do I really need to start listing it? If you're going to claim that paid software is always better than free software then you'll have to provide some data. Must I point out that the vast majority of the internet and the infrastructure of most major tech companies outside of Microsoft run on free open source software.