PCB design software with components autoplacers.

[nigelwright7557]

It wasn't me who started flaming the forum with lies about my software.

I should have realised sooner it was just designed to get my back up and get nasty and then get banned.

Do you design your software for yourself or as a tool for others?

I do both.
Been programming and designing hardware since 1981. For many big companies. British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Land Rover, Creda, Hoover,  Aston Martin etc etc

[nigelwright7557]

What are you talking about? What functions are missing? How often has KiCAD crashed on you? I'm genuinely curious because I've been using it for around 10 years, I've designed several (low volume) commercial products with it and many dozens of hobby PCBs. I've often had several copies of it running for months at a time with various back burner hobby projects and I can't think of a single time when it has crashed. Sure there is the nightly build if you are an enthusiast and want to play software tester but for the rest of us there is the stable release.

I can only give my opinion and that was KICAD was terrible. Very basic and hard to use.
Software is pretty much the only industry where stuff is given away, imagine the outcry if Ford starting giving cars away !
Or if someone came in your work and said they were sacking you and taking on someone to do your job for free ? Would you be happy ?

A few years back EasyPC sold an old copy of their software to RS Components and they gave it away.
If I started giving away components RS would be pretty upset.

[Mr. Scram]

I do both.
Been programming and designing hardware since 1981. For many big companies. British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Land Rover, Creda, Hoover,  Aston Martin etc etc

Yes, but this specific software?

[Mechatrommer]

Been programming and designing hardware since 1981. For many big companies. British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Land Rover, Creda, Hoover,  Aston Martin etc etc

i hope its not like the hand sketched pcb traces dso module you presented in the other thread. prove us wrong by showing examples, we keep asking for this. you said you spent time improving auto routers, auto placement, can you show us that and prove its better than other SW? heck nobody care to use auto router or placement even in Altium. i myself have my own way to do that, auto-auto in Altium is next to useless as well, esp with many logical sections in my circuit that only i know (even if i show forum members they will not know ) what hope do i have Altium can do what i want? if you live long enough around here, you'll know spending time on auto-auto things will almost a waste of time but ymmv nobody can force you. look, we dont want to put you off, dont take it wrongly. we as users only hope for better SW, if its worth it, even £50,100 or £1000 we can pay. but if its not, there will be always free SW that is worth more or we will be stucked with multi K$ semi pro tools like Altium that still cant do everything what we want. talking about an airplane and a pilot, go read up boeing 737 story. and decide if its the wrong pilot? or the wrong airplane design, that is not a £15 worth of plane. money or freeness is not an issue here, functionality and usability is. but if you think its usable to you, then good for you you can keep it.

[Kean]

I can only give my opinion and that was KICAD was terrible. Very basic and hard to use.

So you spent an evening playing with a KiCAD and decided it was crap because it didn't work the way you wanted it to.
Do you realise how ironic that is?

It wasn't me who started flaming the forum with lies about my software.

I should have realised sooner it was just designed to get my back up and get nasty and then get banned.

No idea what you're talking about!
I've just read the whole thread, and most of what I see is really good constructive criticism.
People commenting on their experience trying your software and finding it lacking are not "flaming the forum with lies", they are just relating their experience [please see above re irony].
The majority of negativity is actually in your responses.

[Spirit532]

It's quite amusing to see someone ask for criticism and then refuse it all with a blank stare, saying "I don't care, I decide what goes in!". It's almost delusion of grandeur.

If you asked for criticism and feedback solely to hear praise and get back-pats, you've come to the wrong forum, because people here do real engineering outside their closet, and will critique your software from the point of view of experienced users knowing what they miss and want in an EDA package.
I myself only do engineering at a non-profit level(breaking even), and your software is entirely unusable for me, and judging from other replies, also unusable for everyone else.

[Mechatrommer]

he didnt ask for an advice, so its our fault, maybe we can leave this thread in peace.

[thinkfat]

This is going downhill faster than I thought. Ah well. Might as well get some popcorn and watch the burning...

[Black Phoenix]

This is going downhill faster than I thought. Ah well. Might as well get some popcorn and watch the burning...

Isn't marshmallows better? At least you can use the fire to cook them...

[Kean]

BTW, I've been programming and designing digital circuits since I was in my teens (>35 years).  I've even had a go at writing my own schematic capture and PCB design software, but I gave that up when I realised how much work is involved before it was anywhere useful.  I stopped at basic schematic entry and simulation.  I am actually impressed with what you've managed to develop (multiple times) on your own, but that doesn't make it particularly good or usable software for anyone other than yourself (with your intimate knowledge of it).

Like others have commented here, at GBP5 I can imagine many people buying it just to try it.  Compared to other commercial ECAD software, even GBP50 is pretty cheap.  For that money you generally wouldn't complain, but you probably wouldn't waste time using it either and just write off the cost.

The fact that someone paid GBP5 for it doesn't mean they kept using it, or even that they ever completed a design in it.  I see lots of marketing material for products listing big companies as customers, but rarely does it mean anything.  I suspect it is often just based on a one off purchase from someone at that company, maybe not even in an official capacity.  Similary, the lack of bug reports or feature requests (like undo) tends to indicate lack of actual use.

KiCAD has only become pretty good (not that I use it) in the last couple of years, around the time you mention a big drop off in sales.  You seem to attribute that (drop in sales) to copyright abuse?, which seems disingenuous.

[nigelwright7557]

KiCAD has only become pretty good (not that I use it) in the last couple of years, around the time you mention a big drop off in sales.  You seem to attribute that (drop in sales) to copyright abuse?, which seems disingenuous.

No, sales dropped off in Dec 2017 when suddenly about 100 new listings hit ebay selling similar software.
One bloke sells open source "free" software on ebay for about GBP5.
That's the way to do it, make  money off someone else's hard work !

[nigelwright7557]

he didnt ask for an advice.

But I got it anyway !
I did take on board the "allow components to be laid over tracks" suggestion. Easy fix.

[Ysjoelfir]

I did take on board the "allow components to be laid over tracks" suggestion. Easy fix.

And ignored every single other advice someone gave you - or decided that they just want to spam and go on your nerves.

To give you an idea i looked at the data of a board i worked on.
Board is 37.4 cm by 52.2 cm ( 1/3 by 1/2 meter)
3600 arcs
1574 fills
[...]

Anyway, i'm at the end of my advice. I have real work to do as opposed to help people make their stuff better.

Wow, that sounds very impressive. I would be realy interested in some more details of that project, if you are allowed to tell more.
Btw, I wonder why you can build such things, since you seem to make mistakes on a regular basis, judged by the fact that you need an undo function. Pff... amateur   

My software has been good enough for the likes of British Telecom, Marconi command and control, Ford, Aston Martin, Land Rover etc etc etc.
My software is in pretty much every telephone exchange in the uk.
Its probably in your car.
I did a lot for the military too so lets hope none of my rockets goes astray and disappears up his rear end !

I am happy that I neither live in britain, nor drive Ford, Aston Martin or Land Rover.
Also, I am happy that "your" rockets won't be fired. And if they do, I hope they are build as perfectly as the example PCBs shown. If so, I am not realy scared.

My first venture into PCBCAD software was with EasyPC in 1990.
It was ok but was terribly buggy.
So  I wrote my own based on EasyPC.
I sell it as a hobby for £4-99, EasyPC charge about £400 !

That somehow reminds me of altium. Based on a software written decades ago and only updated from time to time. But on the other hand, Altium is sold for 5000$ or more. And that regularly.

Naaah, I guess that is also just because of those stupid people that don't see the astonishing features of PCBCAD. 

[andreduplessis]

I could not resist the urge to jump in and help 

If your software sells and you make billions, more power to you.  However, if you want your program to be anything else than another TempleOS, I'd strongly suggest that you heed to other people's criticisms.  Take a look at the 80/20 principle http://www.kanbancoding.com/2013/08/27/the-8020-rule-as-applied-to-software-development/.  You have been hacking away at your code for more than 20 years and you are in that 20% superuser category of your own program.  You cannot be an average user as you understand all the inner workings and that is why you need the input of the 80%.

I worked on multi million line code ERP systems and have been at both sides way too many times.

[nctnico]

In regards to KICAD.
What do you call a programmer who charges for his time ?  bright.
What do you call a KICAD programmer who does it for nothing ? a degree student just learning...….

Wrong on both accounts and you clearly don't understand open source software. Open source software is all about ad-hoc collaboration without putting all kinds of deals in place. CERN for example has contributed a lot to Kicad simply because they want to use the software to design boards without being tied into a software vendor. Their benefit is that they can hire externals more easely because they don't need to invest money in a software package. Another example is GCC. Many processor vendors (like ARM for example) develop GCC actively. Making a compiler isn't their core business but a good compiler helps to sell their product. If you go through the Linux kernel you'll see contributions from hundreds of companies.

[legacy]

@nigelwright7557
Let's talk about import/export possibilities ... any?
The OpenSource project "pcb-rnd" (fork of gEDA) is able to import KiCAD files and this is very nice.

[nigelwright7557]

@nigelwright7557
Let's talk about import/export possibilities ... any?
The OpenSource project "pcb-rnd" (fork of gEDA) is able to import KiCAD files and this is very nice.

At the moment no import of other companies files.
There is import of subset gerber files into PCB entry.

[tszaboo]

This thread reminds me of the old thread of DEX program with Iliya the programmer (ended up banned) ... which coincidentally free_electron was heavily involved too. 

You always get one who after using the software for 10 minutes knows better than the bloke who wrote it for 28 years !
Being a software user doesn't make you a software engineer.

Yes, and being a software engineer, doesn't make you a UX designer.
Or a GUI designer.
Or a salesman.
Or customer service.
Or a sales manager.
Or an EE as a matter of fact.

Right now, you are not making a very good job about those positions. The way the software looks like, I wouldn't use it if you would pay money for it. And if the other 300 boards look like what you showed on this forum, then you really have to brush up on the electronics skills. You cannot apply 80's methods with today's technology. That PC32 needs bypassing right next to the pin. SMD capacitor, and not on the other side of the board. IT doesn't matter if it is only a prototype.

[wraper]

I can only give my opinion and that was KICAD was terrible. Very basic and hard to use.

Kickad is completely sufficient to design complicated boards. What you have shown so far are godawful basic designs which I actually would have shame showing to anyone. And the last thing your designs shown need is autorouter. Too basic to even bother using it. It seems the reason you don't ever need undo operation is because you just slap things together and don't ever bother changing anything to make it better. Extremely low density of component placement is a good indicator of it.





VS

[wraper]

BTW WTF is this?

[temperance]

BTW WTF is this?

you must have been absent in USB class. That's an genuine wireless USB connector.

[Ysjoelfir]

I assume that the USB connector and his frontmost (surface mount?) solder pads for the case are handled by the excelent autorouter as two seperate components besides being on the same net? So It decided that it would a great idea to route them like this, thinking, hey, at least it looks... interesting?

[EEVblog]

That pcb is just a prototype.

Sorry, but that PCB is one of the worst I have ever seen.
No way I would have made that public, especially if I wrote and sell PCB software.

[EEVblog]

PCBCAD51 and PCBCAD360 available at https://www.murtonpikesystems.co.uk

Sorry again, that this schematic looks terrible, and something from the 1980's, and it's on your main page as the example 

[EEVblog]

You example video layout doesn't even use 45/90 traces, that's not a good look.