... but even that was one failure away from the entire company failing at one point.
...Once again Tesla was very close to failure at one point.
And one very important electric car is missing from your list: the Toyota Prius.
Tesla has made significant in roads to global battery production capacity. Looking up the reasons given by Toyota for their lack of BEV offering I didn't see much that looked very convincing, do you have a source you can share?
Tesla has made significant in roads to global battery production capacity. Looking up the reasons given by Toyota for their lack of BEV offering I didn't see much that looked very convincing, do you have a source you can share?
I can't find the quote and I don't know if it was the CEO Toyoda or some other exec, but it basically said what I've written. And your statement here reinforces that--Tesla is the biggest player by far in the EV battery supply market and they haven't made anywhere near 10 million vehicles. So where would Toyota have sourced the batteries?
Tesla has made significant in roads to global battery production capacity. Looking up the reasons given by Toyota for their lack of BEV offering I didn't see much that looked very convincing, do you have a source you can share?
I can't find the quote and I don't know if it was the CEO Toyoda or some other exec, but it basically said what I've written. And your statement here reinforces that--Tesla is the biggest player by far in the EV battery supply market and they haven't made anywhere near 10 million vehicles. So where would Toyota have sourced the batteries?
Your quote seems reasonable enough so I'll take it as a statement in and of itself without attribution. So fair to say production and sale of 10M vehicles would not have been easy. As for the question of battery sourcing, if a start up in Palo Alto making luxury EVs can become the biggest player in the EV battery supply market then why couldn't Toyota who has for a long time been THE top automaker by sales? They are obviously very different companies and the risks which Toyota would have needed to undertake would probably not sit well with Toyota shareholders (part from one that are also Tesla shareholders).
You do realise that Toyota used to own Tesla shares very early on as part of a technology partner deal?
With the added caveat that the Toyota Prius to this day uses NiMH batteries although some tiers have lithium ion since 2015 (which is a point to make in terms of successful technology adoption). Deleting the gasoline generator and adding more batteries isn't trivial but I could stretch to agree it at least doesn't require extensive "innovation". Tesla has made significant in roads to global battery production capacity. Looking up the reasons given by Toyota for their lack of BEV offering I didn't see much that looked very convincing, do you have a source you can share?
You are also entirely entitled to choose your own car based on your own judgement. I can certainly see non-Tesla EVs being the objectively better choice for many people. I can only hope you make your purchasing decisions with intellectual honesty.
With the added caveat that the Toyota Prius to this day uses NiMH batteries although some tiers have lithium ion since 2015 (which is a point to make in terms of successful technology adoption). Deleting the gasoline generator and adding more batteries isn't trivial but I could stretch to agree it at least doesn't require extensive "innovation". Tesla has made significant in roads to global battery production capacity. Looking up the reasons given by Toyota for their lack of BEV offering I didn't see much that looked very convincing, do you have a source you can share?
You are also entirely entitled to choose your own car based on your own judgement. I can certainly see non-Tesla EVs being the objectively better choice for many people. I can only hope you make your purchasing decisions with intellectual honesty.
You can't just "delete the generator and add more batteries" to a Prius. It is not an EV, it is a hybrid and there is no separate gasoline generator. The electric motor-generators are integrated into the transaxle and gear ratios are achieved by controlling the relative speeds of a motor-generator and the ICE. A Prius can creep in a parking lot under full electric power but as soon as you get above a certain speed the engine fires up to accelerate the car. The ICE is integral to the package and cannot be deleted, the system could not work without it. A pure EV has a vastly different arrangement, a much larger electric motor geared directly to the wheels through a fixed ratio gearbox and the battery capacity in an EV is more than an order of magnitude greater than that of a hybrid. In a hybrid the electric motor is used to augment the torque of the engine, allowing a much smaller and more efficient engine to be used while still providing reasonable acceleration, and allowing the engine to shut off when not needed, but it is not enough to provide anything close to adequate performance on its own. They could conceivably put a fully electric powertrain into a Prius chassis but it would not be appreciably easier than making an electric version of any other car. You'd still face the challenge of finding a place for a vastly larger number of batteries.
Were the "10 million hybrid electric cars by 2017" PHEVs??
I didn't say they were. But I would say that the Prius of any flavor is actually an EV, just not an exclusive BEV. It is electric drive and just happens to be partly or mostly powered by a gasoline generator. Deleting the gas part and installing a ton of batteries would not really be all that innovative and Toyota has explained in detail why they didn't choose to go that route. In short, given the limited supply of batteries, they could have made 10 million economically priced very-low-emission hybrids or maybe 500K very expensive "zero-emissions" BEVs. Tesla's main achievement here is coming up with a large supply of batteries.
My point is that starting with a Prius isn't really any different than starting with any similar sized conventional ICE powered car. The electric component of the Prius hybrid drive is useless as a base for a pure EV, you'd have to start over with a whole new powertrain either way.
My point is that starting with a Prius isn't really any different than starting with any similar sized conventional ICE powered car. The electric component of the Prius hybrid drive is useless as a base for a pure EV, you'd have to start over with a whole new powertrain either way.Still governments regard hybrids as electric cars. They don't care about the practical implications of how cars are built.
My point is that starting with a Prius isn't really any different than starting with any similar sized conventional ICE powered car. The electric component of the Prius hybrid drive is useless as a base for a pure EV, you'd have to start over with a whole new powertrain either way.Still governments regard hybrids as electric cars. They don't care about the practical implications of how cars are built.
My point is that starting with a Prius isn't really any different than starting with any similar sized conventional ICE powered car. The electric component of the Prius hybrid drive is useless as a base for a pure EV, you'd have to start over with a whole new powertrain either way.Still governments regard hybrids as electric cars. They don't care about the practical implications of how cars are built.
Well then the governments are wrong. Hybrids are not electric cars, period. They are hybrids, they cannot be driven at all without fuel. Governments in general are not widely known for understanding technology.
My point is that starting with a Prius isn't really any different than starting with any similar sized conventional ICE powered car. The electric component of the Prius hybrid drive is useless as a base for a pure EV, you'd have to start over with a whole new powertrain either way.
Hybrids are not electric cars, period. They are hybrids, they cannot be driven at all without fuel.
Nissan Leaf 2010
This guys has just started a (debunking) series on colonising Mars:
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It's ADORABLE when random members of the public come along and proclaim they've "fact checked" something... therefore their "fact checking" is the end of the line, therefore no other discourse will be entered into. LOL.
"Butttt I debunked it!"
If you have something useful to say then say it. I never said anything is the end of the line, I'm referencing previous writing and bringing it forward for people to respond to. No need to try laughable childish attempts at provocation.
[DELETED]If you have something useful to say then say it. I never said anything is the end of the line, I'm referencing previous writing and bringing it forward for people to respond to. No need to try laughable childish attempts at provocation.
You're right, and I am sorry; it was not called for, so I removed my post.
People here keep saying Tesla cars were absolutely nothing new, do you even remember or know how EVs were designed before Tesla stepped up to the plate? Horrible, ugly, weak and slow little cars with poor range (sound like a familiar description of EVs?). They were cars that all but a select few would want for environmental reasons let alone practical reasons.
Edit: To be clear, there was a lot of good work and products done by other mostly Asian car makers but particularly for the US market and regulation/politics in the US, Tesla has made a massive impact. Which is probably why there's so much marketing (propaganda) against Tesla.
One of the reasons people like Elon is that he spends time down on the factory floor to actually solve technical issues and improving processes. It's extremely uncommon for the CEO of a big company to get their hands dirty like that.
They're usually either having meetings with top-level managers or on holiday somewhere enjoying their piles of money.