Tariffs

[tom66]

Russiophobia implies there's irrationality in fearing Russia.  Given Russia has expansionist aims, as has been demonstrated numerous times in the last 20 years, and has an economy that can clearly support war for some time (even in the face of sanctions and apparent economic strains) I think the fear is quite justified.  Is it a fear for France or Germany? Probably not.  But it is an immediate concern for Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, (not an exclusive list) ... and the territorial integrity of the EU is important for the free trade bloc to survive.  So I would say they have a vested interest. 

I am steadfast in one thing.  Russia must lose in Ukraine.  This means no territorial concessions without directly compensating Ukraine for the territory. Otherwise, Russia will do it again. And again. We (EU/NATO) didn't respond sufficiently in 2014, and ordinary Ukes are paying the price.

[soldar]

There is no way Russia could ever be allowed to join NATO, and the very idea is absurd, given Russia is the number one foe in the region.

Declared as such by the US. So if Russia proposes to join the defense pact that would obviously lower tensions and the US obviously does not want that.

NATO should have disbanded the day the USSR dissolved but it kept going because it is the tool of US imperialism and because Europe are wimps of no consequence.

The fact is that Russia has always wanted closer ties with Europe and that the US has always impeded that. It is not in the interests of the US to have a strong and united Europe. It is in the interests of the US to have a weak, divided Europe and they are achieving this objective very well. Divide and conquer.

The state of Europe today is pitiful.

[Analog Kid]

Russiophobia implies there's irrationality in fearing Russia.  Given Russia has expansionist aims, as has been demonstrated numerous times in the last 20 years, and has an economy that can clearly support war for some time (even in the face of sanctions and apparent economic strains) I think the fear is quite justified.

My friend, you have obviously drunk far too deeply of the conventional-wisdom Kool-Aid ("Putin wants to take over Yurp! He wants to reconstruct the Russian Empire!"). Which clearly has as much to do with the internal divisions in the US, like anti-Trumpism, as anything else.  Support for "Ukraine" is seen as striking a blow against Trump's unholy ties with Russia (so far unproven) and his entire foreign policy. (Which I'll readily admit sucks, but that's another rant for another day.)  So you're buying into a whole lot of propaganda which in my view is mostly specious.

If you care to, watch some of John Mearsheimer's videos on YooToob for a debunking of all this. (Mearsheimer is a political scientist of the "realist" school) and tell us what you think.

As Mearsheimer and others point out, Russia's behavior since the start of the "special military operation" in 2022 has put the lie to any intentions to enlarge their empire. Not saying they're perfect paragons of peacefulness--no nation state is!--but they have clearly stated their intentions, to any who are willing to listen, and have in fact pretty much stuck to them.

Don't fall for the propaganda, which is flying thick and fast.

[Cyclotron]

Russiophobia implies there's irrationality in fearing Russia.  Given Russia has expansionist aims, as has been demonstrated numerous times in the last 20 years, and has an economy that can clearly support war for some time (even in the face of sanctions and apparent economic strains) I think the fear is quite justified.  Is it a fear for France or Germany? Probably not.  But it is an immediate concern for Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Moldova, (not an exclusive list) ... and the territorial integrity of the EU is important for the free trade bloc to survive.  So I would say they have a vested interest. 

I am steadfast in one thing.  Russia must lose in Ukraine.  This means no territorial concessions without directly compensating Ukraine for the territory. Otherwise, Russia will do it again. And again. We (EU/NATO) didn't respond sufficiently in 2014, and ordinary Ukes are paying the price.

People making out like Russia is the victim is ridiculous and insulting to everyone in Ukraine. I just made another donation to Ukraine in the names of these people.

Russia has only wanted control over Europe. China wants control over the countries around the South China Sea.

It's not only the direct invasions. Russia and China frequently breach companies and so on. Russia and China are not victims.

Someone is going to jump out and claim the US, or someone else does blah blah, and of course, that must mean what these nations do is somehow justified. Tooth for a tooth and all.

[Cyclotron]

Russiophobia implies there's irrationality in fearing Russia.  Given Russia has expansionist aims, as has been demonstrated numerous times in the last 20 years, and has an economy that can clearly support war for some time (even in the face of sanctions and apparent economic strains) I think the fear is quite justified.

My friend, you have obviously drunk far too deeply of the conventional-wisdom Kool-Aid ("Putin wants to take over Yurp! He wants to reconstruct the Russian Empire!"). Which clearly has as much to do with the internal divisions in the US, like anti-Trumpism, as anything else. So you're buying into a whole lot of propaganda which in my view is mostly specious.

If you care to, watch some of John Mearsheimer's videos on YooToob for a debunking of all this. (Mearsheimer is a political scientist of the "realist" school) and tell us what you think.

As Mearsheimer and others point out, Russia's behavior since the start of the "special military operation" in 2022 has put the lie to any intentions to enlarge their empire. Not saying they're perfect paragons of peacefulness--no nation state is!--but they have clearly stated their intentions, to any who are willing to listen, and have in fact pretty much stuck to them.

Don't fall for the propaganda, which is flying thick and fast.

Don't be a fool. There's no propaganda around Vladimir Putin frequently lamenting the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union as a catastrophe and a "disintegration of historical Russia."
I suggest you take him at his word.

[Analog Kid]

Don't be a fool. There's no propaganda around Vladimir Putin frequently lamenting the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union as a catastrophe and a "disintegration of historical Russia."
I suggest you take him at his word.

That is so easily disproven.

You're talking about the first half of a comment he made.

Paraphrasing,
"Anyone who doesn't miss the old Soviet Union has no heart."

What is always omitted from that remark is the following part:

"Whoever wants it back has no brain."

[PlainName]

Don't be a fool. There's no propaganda around Vladimir Putin frequently lamenting the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union as a catastrophe and a "disintegration of historical Russia."
I suggest you take him at his word.

That is so easily disproven.

Go on then - disprove it.

Meantime you might like to check out what Putin actually thinks and puts into his essay:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Historical_Unity_of_Russians_and_Ukrainians?useskin=vector

In the essay, Putin argues that Russians and Ukrainians, along with Belarusians, are one people, belonging to what has historically been known as the triune Russian nation.[5] To support the claim, he describes in length his views on the history of Russia and Ukraine,[6] concluding that Russians and Ukrainians share a common heritage and destiny.[7]

[tom66]

Please, let's not forget.   

Putin was the one to direct his armies to invade a democratic, sovereign state.  Putin is the enemy here.  Russian society and government structures enable Putin to do this.  Putin is the one that is ordering Shahed drones to strike populated areas.  Putin is the one who is bombing kindergartens, hospitals, public transport stations and apartment blocks in Ukraine.

That other countries, like the US, do similar things (bombing the school in Iran for example, likely a targeting miss but nonetheless consequential) does not absolve Russia from their decisions here.

NATO has done none of these things.  NATO is a defence alliance only.

Ukraine has retaliated, but primarily stuck to targeting military and economic infrastructure.  (They haven't been perfect, but I've always got more forgiveness for the weaker party in any conflict.)

[Cyclotron]

Don't be a fool. There's no propaganda around Vladimir Putin frequently lamenting the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union as a catastrophe and a "disintegration of historical Russia."
I suggest you take him at his word.

That is so easily disproven.

You're talking about the first half of a comment he made.

Paraphrasing,
"Anyone who doesn't miss the old Soviet Union has no heart."

What is always omitted from that remark is the following part:

"Whoever wants it back has no brain."

Here's a quote for you: "Action speaks louder than words."
And ask the Ukrainians about Putin's heart. While you're at it, look into why so many Africans have reported loved ones missing as they were thrown into the melee.

[jonovid]

two sides to a any story. 
if ___  countries try the same move as they did in Iran this week then the retaliation could be hypersonic nuclear or both!
do not underestimate the support for Putin at home. or how China will take sides. tariffs will the least of your problems 

[Analog Kid]

Here's a quote for you: "Action speaks louder than words."

Of course. And always.

[Monkeh]

NATO should just die a quick, painless death instead.

Which, of course, is not what's going to happen. Instead, the Eurotards

Speaking as a 'Eurotard', I rather prefer to have an alliance to protect my country from others. Especially one which has proven it will go to war with others, proven it will lie about those wars prior to and after starting them, proven it will target civilians, proven it will deploy radiological and chemical weapons on foreign soil.

You may not be worried about Russia coming knocking - others have legitimate reasons to be.

Actions speak louder than words. Russia speaks lies and starts wars.

[Cyclotron]

NATO should just die a quick, painless death instead.

Which, of course, is not what's going to happen. Instead, the Eurotards

Speaking as a 'Eurotard', I rather prefer to have an alliance to protect my country from others. Especially one which has proven it will go to war with others, proven it will lie about those wars prior to and after starting them, proven it will target civilians, proven it will deploy radiological and chemical weapons on foreign soil.

You may not be worried about Russia coming knocking - others have legitimate reasons to be.

Actions speak louder than words. Russia speaks lies and starts wars.

We don't want to forget how fairly Russia treats its own people; even the opposition gets government housing. Nice quarters in the gulag until they die of "natural causes".

The US has problems; most countries do. In general, over the past 100 years, the European, "Western" allies, whatever we want to call them, have been centered on promoting what most people feel are good ideals for humans. What internal struggles do you see in Russia to make itself better? None.

These nations that flock together often have to hold a mirror to each other. Same today and will be in the future. We disagree, WW2 was the last time that Europe invaded another for ideological disagreements, and then Russia took the side of the Axis and only grudgingly fought with the Allies when those Axis powers turned on them. The end game was then as now, to dominate the Euro-Asian countries.

All that said, I don't believe the Russian people are "bad." But, as broken as any country can be, these nations that try to work together, struggle together, and each in their own way try to improve together are the side of history I'd want to be on.

[Monkeh]

We don't want to forget how fairly Russia treats its own people; even the opposition gets government housing. Nice quarters in the gulag until they die of "natural causes".

Natural frog toxins, freshly imported. Only the best for the most respected opponents. The mere traitors only get polonium and surplus nerve agents.

[Cyclotron]

We don't want to forget how fairly Russia treats its own people; even the opposition gets government housing. Nice quarters in the gulag until they die of "natural causes".

Natural frog toxins, freshly imported. Only the best for the most respected opponents. The mere traitors only get polonium and surplus nerve agents.

Good way to bring us back on topic. Now, I wonder if those toxins had tariffs.....

 

[wilfred]

two sides to a any story. 
if ___  countries try the same move as they did in Iran this week then the retaliation could be hypersonic nuclear or both!
do not underestimate the support for Putin at home. or how China will take sides. tariffs will the least of your problems 

What are you on? Putin just approved raising the VAT from 20% to 22%. Inflation is over 6%. High interest rates are weighing on people and stiffling growth in the economy outside military spending, unemployment is rising. Russians are just like everyone else everywhere. They are getting squeezed and they do not like it. Americans start bleating about high fuel prices when it gets to half what I pay. I just looked and the average fuel price in America is US$3/US gal which I calculate to about A$1/ liter. Well my local station charges A$2.13 today. Everyone is unhappy about something. And no-one is happy about being involved in a war. Unless you sell bullets.

Take a look at this article from the Moscow Times. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2026/02/26/belgorod-governor-says-locals-hold-a-grudge-toward-authorities-amid-ongoing-outages-a92056

In it is says
"Residents of Russia’s Belgorod region, which has been hit by frequent Ukrainian attacks and recurring power outages, harbor an “internal resentment” toward local authorities, Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov said Thursday after a man allegedly refused to give him a ride.

Gladkov said the incident happened as he was returning from a business trip and his train broke down en route. After disembarking, he approached a local driver and asked the man to drive him to a nearby railway crossing where an official car was waiting.

“The local resident refused,” Gladkov said on his Telegram channel. “Honestly, it seemed to me like there is some internal resentment toward the authorities, whether they be regional or local.”

According to Gladkov, the man said he did not want to “wear out” his car unnecessarily.

The governor said he would ask the head of Yakovlevsky district, where the incident took place, to speak with the man to better understand possible grievances toward the authorities."

You can take "speak to the man" to mean off to the gulag for you. The officials cannot possibly be so ignorant as to credibly claim they know nothing about public sentiment.

[tszaboo]

There is no way Russia could ever be allowed to join NATO, and the very idea is absurd, given Russia is the number one foe in the region.

We have to start thinking about what to do after russia fell apart.
Do we have to send peacekeeping troops? Do we have to get in and proliferate nuclear weapons by force?
What happens if it's suddenly not a single country but 20 with their own humanitarian crisis, and war between each other.

[coromonadalix]

130$ usd order   became    200$  with added DHL fees   usa to canada    yeah   

[KE5FX]

We have to start thinking about what to do after russia fell apart. Do we have to send peacekeeping troops? Do we have to get in and proliferate nuclear weapons by force? What happens if it's suddenly not a single country but 20 with their own humanitarian crisis, and war between each other.

Prediction: we -- meaning the US, or a coalition majority-led by the US -- will end up having to buy their rusty nukes.

If they still worked, it's hard to believe that Putin wouldn't have set one off in a desert somewhere as a warning to the West to step back from supporting Ukraine.  He doesn't dare: what if it fizzles? 

So the Russian stockpile will eventually turn into a proliferation / waste-management problem, one that will dwarf what we already have to deal with in the US at places like Hanford.

[Cyclotron]

We have to start thinking about what to do after russia fell apart. Do we have to send peacekeeping troops? Do we have to get in and proliferate nuclear weapons by force? What happens if it's suddenly not a single country but 20 with their own humanitarian crisis, and war between each other.

Prediction: we -- meaning the US, or a coalition majority-led by the US -- will end up having to buy their rusty nukes.

If they still worked, it's hard to believe that Putin wouldn't have set one off in a desert somewhere as a warning to the West to step back from supporting Ukraine.  He doesn't dare: what if it fizzles? 

So the Russian stockpile will eventually turn into a proliferation / waste-management problem, one that will dwarf what we already have to deal with in the US at places like Hanford.

Basically, DuraLeak on a much, much larger scale. A bit of vinegar won't help.

[PlainName]

We have to start thinking about what to do after russia fell apart. Do we have to send peacekeeping troops? Do we have to get in and proliferate nuclear weapons by force? What happens if it's suddenly not a single country but 20 with their own humanitarian crisis, and war between each other.

Prediction: we -- meaning the US, or a coalition majority-led by the US -- will end up having to buy their rusty nukes.

If they still worked, it's hard to believe that Putin wouldn't have set one off in a desert somewhere as a warning to the West to step back from supporting Ukraine.  He doesn't dare: what if it fizzles? 

So the Russian stockpile will eventually turn into a proliferation / waste-management problem, one that will dwarf what we already have to deal with in the US at places like Hanford.

At risk of straying off tariffs momentarily, I'm going to disagree because Putin knows how to play the game. He is clever and cunning, and the proof is from just how well he has strung along allied powers over Ukraine and even managed to get Trump to blame the victims! OK, he misjudged the start and failed to spot his tools were rusty. Are his nukes? I don't think it matters. Worst case (for him) is lobbing some failed ones over as dirty bombs. Not as spectactular but certainly very effective.

What we really need to be afraid of, in relation to nukes, is the US. Trump thinks he is still hosting a tv programme, but one with a far bigger audience than The Apprentice. He is not clever (cf. Putin running rings around him) but has big enough toys that he can screw anyone who doesn't fawn over him (cf. numerous malicious lawsuits that are the poster children for SLAPPs). So there is no-one to tell him he is wrong not quite right great plan, but poor optics. If he ever got the idea that a battlefield nuke would be justified (in his mind - forget legally or morally) then we will be fucked because he'll do it. He has nothing whatever to lose since all the peasants in America and rest of world (that means you, me, even the billionaires) will be given up before the great POTUS.

Just look at his reaction to not getting the Nobel Prize. Hissy fit and now "doesn't have to think only about peace".

Tariff-wise (and, actually, just anything trade), every other country seems to be on bended knee to him. I wonder if that's just to give them time to build alternative partners before then tell him to FRO. I see Spain is the only one so far to call out this current illegal war. Wonder what their tariffs will be like next week. The UK initially had a tiny bit of backbone but has now succumbed, so we might just get away with a few insults but tariffs will remain as per the agreement (which agreement we're not sure, but it will be one of them).

[TUMEMBER]

骄傲使人跌倒

[tom66]

What we really need to be afraid of, in relation to nukes, is the US. Trump thinks he is still hosting a tv programme, but one with a far bigger audience than The Apprentice. He is not clever (cf. Putin running rings around him) but has big enough toys that he can screw anyone who doesn't fawn over him (cf. numerous malicious lawsuits that are the poster children for SLAPPs). So there is no-one to tell him he is wrong not quite right great plan, but poor optics. If he ever got the idea that a battlefield nuke would be justified (in his mind - forget legally or morally) then we will be fucked because he'll do it. He has nothing whatever to lose since all the peasants in America and rest of world (that means you, me, even the billionaires) will be given up before the great POTUS.

Just look at his reaction to not getting the Nobel Prize. Hissy fit and now "doesn't have to think only about peace".

Tariff-wise (and, actually, just anything trade), every other country seems to be on bended knee to him. I wonder if that's just to give them time to build alternative partners before then tell him to FRO. I see Spain is the only one so far to call out this current illegal war. Wonder what their tariffs will be like next week. The UK initially had a tiny bit of backbone but has now succumbed, so we might just get away with a few insults but tariffs will remain as per the agreement (which agreement we're not sure, but it will be one of them).

Agreed.  My biggest concern with Trump is he has shown that diplomacy with the US is dead.  This has made the USA an unreliable partner.  Other countries will put up with what Trump has done because they need the USA, but only in the short term.  They currently need the USA as a customer, or as part of their supply chains, or for defence.  But the can pivot.  Going forwards this has a chilling effect on future US relations.  The UK may be willing to sign a trade agreement today.  Will they be so willing to do so in the future?  What about defence agreements?  Cooperation on crime and intelligence?

The world benefits from a strong USA.  China and Russia will plug the gap that the US has left.  Their interests are more orthogonal to ours than the Americans.  We may take the piss out of the yanks from time to time, and disagree on things like regulating Big Tech, healthcare, and pharmaceuticals... but broadly I think our interests are quite well aligned. 

The damage Trump has done -- tariffs being just one part -- will be most keenly felt in the next 10-20 years, not today.

[Electrodynamic]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

[Cyclotron]

What we really need to be afraid of, in relation to nukes, is the US. Trump thinks he is still hosting a tv programme, but one with a far bigger audience than The Apprentice. He is not clever (cf. Putin running rings around him) but has big enough toys that he can screw anyone who doesn't fawn over him (cf. numerous malicious lawsuits that are the poster children for SLAPPs). So there is no-one to tell him he is wrong not quite right great plan, but poor optics. If he ever got the idea that a battlefield nuke would be justified (in his mind - forget legally or morally) then we will be fucked because he'll do it. He has nothing whatever to lose since all the peasants in America and rest of world (that means you, me, even the billionaires) will be given up before the great POTUS.

Just look at his reaction to not getting the Nobel Prize. Hissy fit and now "doesn't have to think only about peace".

Tariff-wise (and, actually, just anything trade), every other country seems to be on bended knee to him. I wonder if that's just to give them time to build alternative partners before then tell him to FRO. I see Spain is the only one so far to call out this current illegal war. Wonder what their tariffs will be like next week. The UK initially had a tiny bit of backbone but has now succumbed, so we might just get away with a few insults but tariffs will remain as per the agreement (which agreement we're not sure, but it will be one of them).

Agreed.  My biggest concern with Trump is he has shown that diplomacy with the US is dead.  This has made the USA an unreliable partner.  Other countries will put up with what Trump has done because they need the USA, but only in the short term.  They currently need the USA as a customer, or as part of their supply chains, or for defence.  But the can pivot.  Going forwards this has a chilling effect on future US relations.  The UK may be willing to sign a trade agreement today.  Will they be so willing to do so in the future?  What about defence agreements?  Cooperation on crime and intelligence?

The world benefits from a strong USA.  China and Russia will plug the gap that the US has left.  Their interests are more orthogonal to ours than the Americans.  We may take the piss out of the yanks from time to time, and disagree on things like regulating Big Tech, healthcare, and pharmaceuticals... but broadly I think our interests are quite well aligned. 

The damage Trump has done -- tariffs being just one part -- will be most keenly felt in the next 10-20 years, not today.

No doubt. I blame Spain; if they hadn't invaded and then, later, with the British and French, stolen all of the lands in the Americas, the US might not exist. 534 years later, we have Donald Trump.

There have been many issues over the years. I don't believe that Donald Trump will have a lasting impact unless, of course, like the fear mongers say, he becomes a dictator. Which, of course, isn't going to happen.

Trump's name will sit along with the others that have had significant disdain cast their way.
Richard Nixon
Jimmy Carter
Lyndon B. Johnson
Andrew Johnson
James Buchanan
Warren G Harding

Europe and the Middle East, in particular, didn't like George W. Bush.