Your pet peeve, technical or otherwise.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Software bods often do amazing things in spite of hardware designers.

[PlainName]

Sometimes to spite them, too

[AaronLee]

> And yes I'm aware of the wall of confusion that surrounds RS-232 and whether RX is an input or an output

To the extent that I breathed a huge sigh of relief when ST made their UART TX and RX swappable in software. The number of times that a hardware designer and a software engineer had screwed that up by not communicating sufficiently ... blood boiling doesn't even come close...

I once worked at a company where the hardware engineer reversed RX and TX EVERY SINGLE TIME. He never once made a board where they were correct. Whenever a new board came out, first order of business was to hook up a scope and show the signal, and tell him that he once again had them reversed. I understand the confusion that can happen, but what I don't understand is that once an experienced engineer realizes the reason for the confusion, why they can't simply trace the RX/TX lines on the device they're connecting them to, and figure out which is which for the device they're designing. Maybe they do, but some of them still can't realize that RX/TX need to be crossed between devices. I don't know...to me it's so simple.

[james_s]

I once worked at a company where the hardware engineer reversed RX and TX EVERY SINGLE TIME. He never once made a board where they were correct. Whenever a new board came out, first order of business was to hook up a scope and show the signal, and tell him that he once again had them reversed. I understand the confusion that can happen, but what I don't understand is that once an experienced engineer realizes the reason for the confusion, why they can't simply trace the RX/TX lines on the device they're connecting them to, and figure out which is which for the device they're designing. Maybe they do, but some of them still can't realize that RX/TX need to be crossed between devices. I don't know...to me it's so simple.

It's a shame you couldn't take a look over the design BEFORE a run of boards was made. If I had screwed that up more than once or twice I'd get in the habit of adding some 0 ohm jumpers that could configure it straight or crossed just in case.

[IDEngineer]

Agreed. It IS so simple, and yet so easily confused, that I've always personally sat down with the artwork and the spec sheets and traced out the artwork myself. I keep Gerber file viewers on all of my machines specifically for this purpose.

SPI can have the same confusion. "Input" is usually from the perspective of the device in question, but sometimes devices intended as SPI slaves "helpfully" label their signals to match the SPI master. I much prefer MISO and MOSI, which are unambiguous, but few use those.

In the case of your habitual offender, perhaps it would have been wise to surreptitously include some 0R jumpers. Then it just becomes a matter of which two get stuffed. EDIT: I see that james_s posted the same idea while I was typing it! 

[AaronLee]

Agreed. It IS so simple, and yet so easily confused, that I've always personally sat down with the artwork and the spec sheets and traced out the artwork myself. I keep Gerber file viewers on all of my machines specifically for this purpose.

SPI can have the same confusion. "Input" is usually from the perspective of the device in question, but sometimes devices intended as SPI slaves "helpfully" label their signals to match the SPI master. I much prefer MISO and MOSI, which are unambiguous, but few use those.

In the case of your habitual offender, perhaps it would have been wise to surreptitously include some 0R jumpers. Then it just becomes a matter of which two get stuffed. EDIT: I see that james_s posted the same idea while I was typing it! 

The (senior) hardware engineer was older than me, and demanded all the younger engineers respect him. I once tried to tell him directly he was wrong, and got loudly yelled at, so after that I kept my mouth shut and just showed him the scope results when I was testing, and let him, on his own, realize that TX and RX were swapped. I didn't have any control over the hardware design to enforce the use of jumpers, etc.

He also always labeled SPI lines, "SDO/SDI" and I once told him how it was much easier to understand using "MISO/MOSI" labels, and again he yelled at me for overstepping my boundaries, though after that magically all new designs had "MISO/MOSI" labels.

[james_s]

I would still voice my concerns, and at least in this era I would do it in email so there is a record of it. If somebody wants to yell at me that's fine, they'll look like an idiot once they realize I was right. It isn't disrespectful to point out an error, you don't have to call the guy a moron, just point out that you believe the pins are swapped. I've had multiple bosses commend the fact that I'm not afraid to voice concerns, even when it's with someone levels above me. I don't keep pushing the issue after they say no, but I'll call it out and make my opinion known.

[SilverSolder]

Agreed. It IS so simple, and yet so easily confused, that I've always personally sat down with the artwork and the spec sheets and traced out the artwork myself. I keep Gerber file viewers on all of my machines specifically for this purpose.

SPI can have the same confusion. "Input" is usually from the perspective of the device in question, but sometimes devices intended as SPI slaves "helpfully" label their signals to match the SPI master. I much prefer MISO and MOSI, which are unambiguous, but few use those.

In the case of your habitual offender, perhaps it would have been wise to surreptitously include some 0R jumpers. Then it just becomes a matter of which two get stuffed. EDIT: I see that james_s posted the same idea while I was typing it! 

The (senior) hardware engineer was older than me, and demanded all the younger engineers respect him. I once tried to tell him directly he was wrong, and got loudly yelled at, so after that I kept my mouth shut and just showed him the scope results when I was testing, and let him, on his own, realize that TX and RX were swapped. I didn't have any control over the hardware design to enforce the use of jumpers, etc.

He also always labeled SPI lines, "SDO/SDI" and I once told him how it was much easier to understand using "MISO/MOSI" labels, and again he yelled at me for overstepping my boundaries, though after that magically all new designs had "MISO/MOSI" labels.

He obviously just likes yelling...  The best thing to do is to just let that pass right over you!  Some people are just a little "difficult"...

[PlainName]

I much prefer MISO and MOSI, which are unambiguous, but few use those.

And even fewer from now on.

[AaronLee]

I would still voice my concerns, and at least in this era I would do it in email so there is a record of it. If somebody wants to yell at me that's fine, they'll look like an idiot once they realize I was right. It isn't disrespectful to point out an error, you don't have to call the guy a moron, just point out that you believe the pins are swapped. I've had multiple bosses commend the fact that I'm not afraid to voice concerns, even when it's with someone levels above me. I don't keep pushing the issue after they say no, but I'll call it out and make my opinion known.

Unfortunately that would have never worked, as the hardware engineer had been friends with the company CEO for a very long time. Anyone in the company that crossed him ended up leaving in short order. Thankfully the company I'm with now has a hardware engineer that understands UART RX and TX, and already used "MISO/MOSI" for SPI labels before I got there. I now have final approval before any PCBs are made, and I've yet to discover him mixing up RX and TX.

[james_s]

Well if people keep leaving eventually that's only going to harm the company. It's hard to argue with fact, if you point something out, get yelled at and then it turns out that you were right, it's pretty hard to justify getting rid of you, and frankly at that point I wouldn't want to work in such a toxic and broken culture anyway.

[PlainName]

Often, you get remembered as being a pain in the arse more than you are for being right. In fact, being right can amplify the PITA bit.

[james_s]

Well if that's the case then I don't want to work there anyway. I've never worried about it and so far it has worked for me.

[radar_macgyver]

I much prefer MISO and MOSI, which are unambiguous, but few use those.

And even fewer from now on.

Oh for fuck's sake, say it's main and secondary and move on.

[james_s]

I use MISO and MOSI, they make sense. Main and secondary? That's ambiguous, is main the master that is always in control or is it the primary that is usually in control? Is secondary capable of being in control if main is busy or is it a slave? I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so annoying that people tiptoe around language to describe relationships between inanimate objects as if they have feelings and rights, it's inane and idiotic, a fake, feel-good solution to a made up problem. On topic, that is definitely one of my pet peeves.

[IDEngineer]

Agreed! I'm "offended" when I'm told I can't use a perfectly understandable word or phrase because someone else used it in a manner that some yet additional person found objectionable. That quickly devolves to having a limited rather than rich vocabulary based on the whims of entirely separate third parties who get to declare what words are, or are not, acceptable. Today. Or tomorrow. I don't have time to keep track of the socially acceptable, politically correct moving targets so I just *communicate* clearly with zero malice. If someone imagines an inference I didn't intend, that's on them.

[james_s]

It seems to be lost on some people that language is a tool for communication and words are like buckets that can be used to transfer a message. The words themselves are only a vehicle, what matters is the message behind them. There is this very strange concept recently that a person is somehow responsible for how another person may interpret what they say, a concept that completely falls apart under scrutiny when we acknowledge that humans are not telepathic beings and there is some inherent ambiguity in language itself. It is totally futile to try to ensure that another person will never read malice into something that was said or that a totally innocent word will not trigger some kind of PTSD in another person by way of association. It is entirely the responsibility of the individual to seek whatever form of therapy they require in order to deal with their PTSD rather than expecting the whole world to alter their vocabulary to appease that individual. There is a point in life where one has seen it play out enough times to know just how futile it is, because it absolutely does not end, ever. If you manage to ban some word, another word immediately takes its place, because the problem was never the word itself in the first place. If someone thinks I'm an asshole because I refuse to make what they see as a trivial change so be it, I think they're an asshole for insisting I change to suit them and or insisting that I actually meant something other than what I said. I refuse to play the game, I just won't do it, it is completely nonsensical to me.

[IDEngineer]

Sometimes I wonder if people just create this stuff to see what they can get away with. To see just how far they will be tolerated. Like in the movie "Trading Places"... "I'll bet you one dollar we can get the word 'thug' banned as politically incorrect". There are much more pressing problems in the world, is filtering the daily word choice of disinterested third parties really at the top of the list?

[radar_macgyver]

I agree in principle, but my pet peeve, as it were, is how there's always the snide comment or joke that wants to highlight this even when the discussion is about something completely different. It sounds about as bad to me as someone referring to women as 'broads' or something equally offensive, and then complaining that 'back in the day' they could use such language and that their ability to communicate is being stifled. Language is fluid, get used to it.

[james_s]

Most of the easy problems have been solved and what remains are hard problems. Some people make up problems to fixate on so they can feel like they're doing something useful. I don't think there is much logic in the process, they're doing something that makes them feel good, and thus they're immune to logical arguments against what they're trying to do, and any evidence showing it doesn't actually work is irrelevant and ignored because it's all based on feelings.

[james_s]

I agree in principle, but my pet peeve, as it were, is how there's always the snide comment or joke that wants to highlight this even when the discussion is about something completely different. It sounds about as bad to me as someone referring to women as 'broads' or something equally offensive, and then complaining that 'back in the day' they could use such language and that their ability to communicate is being stifled. Language is fluid, get used to it.

Language is fluid, yes, it evolves on its own. That is different from someone trying to go on a power trip and force changes. If you want to use different words then use different words, and accept that some people will have difficulty understanding you. Like most people I do not like being forced, and if some authoritarian twit tries to force me to change language I will push back, and probably look for more opportunities to use those words they don't like. Don't tell me to "get used to it", that's a statement of dismissal and I find it offensive. It doesn't seem to matter to the language police types what I find offensive though, it's entirely about them.

Calling women "broads" was never something classy people did as far as I know. Frankly it doesn't really seem like a big deal, chances are I'm not going to hang out with a person but do I care what words they use? No, not really. Rude people are a dime a dozen, I have better things to do than try to police their language.

[Labrat101]

This is turning into a Hate I love War instead of peeve, technical or otherwise.

[Ed.Kloonk]

I realised I'm out of Valium pills so to get to sleep I put on that new ABBA record.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[james_s]

It wouldn't be my first choice of things to listen to, but I can think of a whole load of other artists I'd less rather hear.

[Bassman59]

I realised I'm out of Valium pills so to get to sleep I put on that new ABBA record.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

A new ABBA record was not on my "Things we'll get in 2021" bingo card.