A wireless mouse that doesn't suck

[mc172]

I really rate Logitech in general. I've had my Logitech MX Master 2S for 3.5 years now at work and no issues. Someone I work with has had a Logitech Performance Mouse MX for about 7 years and no problems. I'd know because they're quite vocal.

[MrMobodies]

I have been using and buying used MK and EX 100 series Logitech mouse/keyboards on Ebay and clean them up when I discovered many years ago that they are reliable and have lasted so long and only one mouse had a intermittent dodgy wheel. They don't have that rubber stuff all over it that becomes sticky and I can join and unjoin to any receiver of the same type by pressing the button on them rather the Logitech connect and Unify utility. The wired receivers on the MK series have caps lock and num lock lights which is good for a desktop setup. One issue is that I think it is infrared and reflections from glass or glossy surfaces under low light can sometimes cause problems and another on the MK keyboards they have a small back button on the left of the keyboard that can sometimes to be pressed.

[Jeroen3]

Did you look at the MX Master yet? I have two of them. Bluetooth and Logitech anywhere.
Battery last about two weeks on a charge.
Scroll wheel is amazing.
Horizontal scroll works shit in windows.

[Kilrah]

I wonder what you're doing with your mice. I've had several Logitech mice over the years, and never wore out a switch on any of them. In fact only one of them really broke, my G400 that got daily use for about 6 years and it's the cable that failed from repeated flex (and the glide pads were basically gone too).

One I just stopped using becasue it was one with the old RF system that didn't deal well with increasing number of 2.4GHz stuff around, but that was >10 years ago.`

Previous to that I had a keyboard/mouse combo that also lasted 6 years or so - mouse was still working but keyboard keys were worn out and starting to squeak, and peripherals start becoming really filthy after that long anyway.

My MX Anywhere 2 (not S) might get replaced soon but it still works perfectly, it's just completely trashed from carrying in my backpack for 4 years. And it's a pain for some software becasue it has no middle click, replacing it with the switch for that stupid (to me) frictionless thing. Was that changed in the 2s?

[Kilrah]

The small button beneath the wheel is middle click. It's by default Task View, but if you use Logitech's app, you can reassign it to middle click.

Unfortunately I've been using the button in that location as "close current window" for 15 years, so I'm so used to it I just can't repurpose it, the loss of the wheel press is really direct.
I've been reprogramming both side scrolling directions on the wheel to middle click and that works, but it's still super annoying when going back and forth between that when out of the office and normal wheel press at the desk, you end up always having the wrong reflex for the mouse you're using.

And yes, all Logitech mice suck, at least that's what I observed. FYI, I play CS:GO for ~1.5 hrs per day, so that easily doubled left clicks compared to most people's 8 hour usage.

Unfortunately all the others I've used suck even more 
I've tried another pretty expensive gaming mouse recently and it seems the people who designed it have no idea how hands work because the shape is always "rounded" in the same direction, there is no "grip" so it always slips off your hand when you lift it 

Logitech have a pretty good support though, and I don't know where you are but here they are known to often replace stuff for free even when out of warranty.

[Kilrah]

Good luck, I find those Apple mice to be the worst around. Often some dead zone (not sure whether that's casued by the mous or the OS though) and I don't like at all the lack of "feedback" from physical controls. But you like the freewheeling scrollwheel so it might be ok with you, I like my clicks.

[Jeroen3]

...

To my experience, every single Logitech fail in two years, give or take. Including high end gaming series and high end office series and high end mobile series.

I bought mine in August 2015. Two of them, one for work and one at home.
They both still work great. The rubbers on the side are a bit worn, but what do you expect with such high use.

[SiliconWizard]

I find those Apple mice to be the worst around. Often some dead zone (not sure whether that's casued by the mous or the OS though) and I don't like at all the lack of "feedback" from physical controls. But you like the freewheeling scrollwheel so it might be ok with you, I like my clicks.

Same here.

[Richard Crowley]

My problem with Bluetooth mice is that they lose the RF link frequently.
Sometimes several times in a week.  Sometimes it would work for 2-3 weeks.
To restore functionality, I have to "remove" the mouse and then re-add it.   

[FreddieChopin]

Try some A4Tech office mouses, they're excellent value and if you get any genetic matter on them (happens  ) it's cheaper to replace then Logitech.

[r0d3z1]

Did you look at the MX Master yet? I have two of them. Bluetooth and Logitech anywhere.

I vote for MX Master, Bluetooth lag sometimes but Logitech unifying works quite well.

[BBBbbb]

Logitech RF receivers have a know vulnerability, but chances of somebody using it on a regular home user are close to zero...
But what's worrying is Logitechs unwillingness to properly address it for more than 2 years now IIRC. Halfass patches that failed to properly handle it...
logitech is even banned from some more security aware companies...

In terms of reliability and battery life, it's #1 IMO when it comes to mouses. Their keyboards have not set themselves apart from other manufacturers as well as mouses.   

[tautech]

In terms of reliability and battery life, it's #1 IMO when it comes to mouses. Their keyboards have not set themselves apart from other manufacturers as well as mouses.

Yet I threw away the wireless Logitech mouse that came bundled with a wireless Logitech keyboard and this one has been great. Mouse chewed batteries but this keyboard is great.
Been using a wired Trackman ever since.

[AngusBeef]

I wonder what you're doing with your mice. I've had several Logitech mice over the years, and never wore out a switch on any of them. In fact only one of them really broke, my G400 that got daily use for about 6 years and it's the cable that failed from repeated flex (and the glide pads were basically gone too).

One I just stopped using becasue it was one with the old RF system that didn't deal well with increasing number of 2.4GHz stuff around, but that was >10 years ago.`

Previous to that I had a keyboard/mouse combo that also lasted 6 years or so - mouse was still working but keyboard keys were worn out and starting to squeak, and peripherals start becoming really filthy after that long anyway.

My MX Anywhere 2 (not S) might get replaced soon but it still works perfectly, it's just completely trashed from carrying in my backpack for 4 years. And it's a pain for some software becasue it has no middle click, replacing it with the switch for that stupid (to me) frictionless thing. Was that changed in the 2s?

YES! This! I've got 4 Logitech wireless mice, two for almost a decade, and have moved across the country 5 times so they end up tossed in a box. I abuse the hell out of my Logitech's and have yet to have a single failure.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

[ebastler]

My problem with Bluetooth mice is that they lose the RF link frequently.
Sometimes several times in a week.  Sometimes it would work for 2-3 weeks.
To restore functionality, I have to "remove" the mouse and then re-add it.   

I have a related problem, on two "Microsoft Sculpt Comfort" Bluetooth mice, which I use on two different laptop computers (both Win 10). The connection drops, roughly once a day. I don't have to re-add them as a Bluetooth device though, just quickly switch the mouse off and on again.

Annoying, but the feel of the Microsoft mouse is otherwise so good that I am sticking with them. (Have had them for 3 years or so.) Nice and heavy, and the buttons and scroll wheels still perform without any glitches. I prefer the Bluetooth connection since it does not block a USB port, which are not plentiful on either of my two computers.

If anyone has an idea how to avoid that problem, I would be much obliged! I have already disabled the "power saving" mode on the BT device, that didn't help.

[rsjsouza]

Get very close to the mouse; perhaps there is a small voice saying: "Sorry to interrupt, but this is important. Your mouse is running an outdated version of Windows 7." 

[rrinker]

 I've mostly given up on wireless mice for static desktop computers. And about had it with Logitech. Though my main desktop has a Logitech "gaming" mouse I've had for 7+ year now that shows no signs of switch issues in any of the buttons. Maybe 6 years ago, Logitech made a smaller wireless version for laptops. I picked one up, mainly because it had the weighted scroll wheel with the selectable detent which is why I likes the mouse on my desktop. In no less than 3 months, before the batteries even wore out, the left button stopped working, unless I pushed REALLY hard. Supposedly fixable by building up a little bump on the bottom of the plastic so it fully depresses the microswitch. Yeah. So I went to Walmart and got their cheapest wireless mouse with a scroll wheel, I think it was $17. I've had that mouse ever since - nearly 6 years now. A pair of AAA batteries lasts 6-9 months, and I use my laptop every day, and I can't stand touchpads so I ALWAYS use the mouse. And when they are dead - they are dead, read under 1 volt with no load on a voltmeter. And this thing still chugs on, all the buttons work, it gets tossed in my laptop bag and banged around. The stuck on slippery sliders on the bottom are long gone.And it's not horrible to hold - it IS a compact design to be portable, not a big giant thing for someone with large hands. The only downside is that it is the more basic sensor style so it will not work on glass or glass topped tables - the last few places I've been for work, I've had to use a sheet of paper or something for a mouse pad because the tables int he hotel rooms have a layer of glass on top of the 'wood'

 But for the price of the Logitech, I could buy 3 of these cheap ones - only thing is, i haven't had to replace it.

[tooki]

I wonder what you're doing with your mice. I've had several Logitech mice over the years, and never wore out a switch on any of them. In fact only one of them really broke, my G400 that got daily use for about 6 years and it's the cable that failed from repeated flex (and the glide pads were basically gone too).

I was wondering this, too!! In almost 30 years of owning a computer, I've never had a mouse break on me (though one single one had a USB cord failure). Several of those mice have been Logitech, be they Logitech branded, or Logitech OEM (many early Apple mice were actually built by Logitech.) The mouse I have on my Mac Pro now is a Logitech Performance MX (predecessor to the MX Master) that I've had for close to 10 years now.

I hazard to claim that if you're consistently wearing out mice after just 2 years, the problem lies with you, Blueskull, and not with the mice!

As a computer support professional at various points in my career, I can say with a high degree of confidence that most mice do not break.

[thm_w]

Not wireless but worth mentioning, they've started socketing the switches so its easier to replace now  :

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG_Gladius/

I hazard to claim that if you're consistently wearing out mice after just 2 years, the problem lies with you, Blueskull, and not with the mice!

As a computer support professional at various points in my career, I can say with a high degree of confidence that most mice do not break.

2-3 years is fairly typical, its completely normal for these switches to wear out.
Lets say you click 10,000 times per day, thats 3.6 million per year. The standard D2F-01F is rated 1M cycles, with some versions up to 10M+ I believe (but hard to know if you've got the genuine one or what teh actual difference is, and if it matters in non-perfect conditions): https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-01F/SW502-ND/83266

[CatalinaWOW]

It would be interesting to put a counter on the mouse clicks.  My finger gets tired after a long session of clicking around, and one job I had that required a couple of weeks of intensive clicking left me with a sore finger that took months to improve and forced me to mouse left handed for a while.

I believe that most of us hit far less than 10,000 clicks a day, but have never seen any statistics.  I do suspect that gaming which blueskull mentioned is an intense user of finger presses since I believe that that is used to trigger all of the weapon use that permeates most games.

[tooki]

Not wireless but worth mentioning, they've started socketing the switches so its easier to replace now  :

https://www.asus.com/ca-en/ROG-Republic-Of-Gamers/ROG_Gladius/

I hazard to claim that if you're consistently wearing out mice after just 2 years, the problem lies with you, Blueskull, and not with the mice!

As a computer support professional at various points in my career, I can say with a high degree of confidence that most mice do not break.

2-3 years is fairly typical, its completely normal for these switches to wear out.
Lets say you click 10,000 times per day, thats 3.6 million per year. The standard D2F-01F is rated 1M cycles, with some versions up to 10M+ I believe (but hard to know if you've got the genuine one or what teh actual difference is, and if it matters in non-perfect conditions): https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/D2F-01F/SW502-ND/83266

Except that it’s just... not. As I said, I have extensive experience in computer support, and no, people just aren’t replacing their mice every 2-3 years. Few people need to. Mice usually outlast the computers they ship with.

A quick search seems to indicate that typical business use averages about 7500 clicks per week, with a peak of about 3500 daily. Other reports indicated a lot more (e.g. some Mac users counting 5000 or even 7000 per day), which I assume is due to being particularly mouse-heavy work like graphic design.

Either way, they’re not doing that 365 days a year as you counted, but rather about 220 (5 days x 4 weeks x 11 months, to account for weekends and vacation). So if we take some middle ground like 3000 clicks per day, that’s 660K in a year. A company like Logitech isn’t going to be putting in a 1-million-click switch in that case, because it’d wear out before the statutory warranty in many countries.

Gaming could be an area where things wear out more, due to far higher numbers of clicks, and probably much more, um, energetic clicking in the heat of battle.

But that would fall squarely into my explanation of it being a PEBKAC and not a product flaw.

[thm_w]

Except that it’s just... not. As I said, I have extensive experience in computer support, and no, people just aren’t replacing their mice every 2-3 years. Few people need to. Mice usually outlast the computers they ship with.

The kind of people using this forum and people requesting computer support from you, to me, are unlikely to be the same kind of people.

A quick search seems to indicate that typical business use averages about 7500 clicks per week, with a peak of about 3500 daily. Other reports indicated a lot more (e.g. some Mac users counting 5000 or even 7000 per day), which I assume is due to being particularly mouse-heavy work like graphic design.

Either way, they’re not doing that 365 days a year as you counted, but rather about 220 (5 days x 4 weeks x 11 months, to account for weekends and vacation). So if we take some middle ground like 3000 clicks per day, that’s 660K in a year. A company like Logitech isn’t going to be putting in a 1-million-click switch in that case, because it’d wear out before the statutory warranty in many countries.

Gaming could be an area where things wear out more, due to far higher numbers of clicks, and probably much more, um, energetic clicking in the heat of battle.

But that would fall squarely into my explanation of it being a PEBKAC and not a product flaw.

- This is not business use we are talking about.
- Blueskull plays games, probably is using his computer close to 365 days per year (as do other people here). 10k is not unreasonable.
- Its not PEBKAC in the slightest when you are using the item as intended.
- Switch rating may not meet actual performance seen, there are often claims that the chinese Omrons are of lower quality than the Japan made versions. So who knows if 10M is a realistic number.

IF that is the case that it fails prematurely, then it can be seen as a flaw, however, if it meets the 10M rating (which could be 3 years of use at the lower end) then I would be happy.

[tooki]

PEBKAC means “problem exists between keyboard and chair”, i.e. the user. It doesn’t necessarily mean he’s using them wrong, merely that the way he uses them is the cause, which is what I said.

As for who the users were... well, you have no way of knowing, do you? But FWIW, the majority were graphic designers, so people who tended to use mice above average and keyboards correspondingly less. Not that I think the users of this forum are likely to exhibit fundamentally different usage patterns.

10K may be possible, but it’s definitely far above normal use. No ifs, ands, or buts about that.

[CatalinaWOW]

Another data bit consistent with what tooki is saying.

https://www.digitalcitizen.life/how-many-key-presses-and-mouse-clicks-you-perform-day

This individual has logged an average of 10,300 clicks a day.  Sounds very supportive of the initial 10,000 click per day hypothesis.  But he goes on to report that on days when he is gaming he does nearly 49,000 clicks a day.  To bring his overall average down to 10,300 his non-gaming days must have a really low average number of clicks.

I have a niece who spends every waking moment gaming.  She is only employed part time so she probably averages over five days a week gaming, and possibly exceeds the referenced individuals 49,000 clicks a day.  That is over 250,000 clicks a week and possibly as many as 12 million a year.  Instead of dissing these mice we should be amazed at how long they are surviving.    I doubt that blueskull clocks that many, he does too many productive things for that to happen, but he is probably exceeding a very respectable switch life in his use pattern.

My usage involves schematic capture, spreadsheets, coding, image editing, word processing, email, web crawling and some limited play of logic type games.  The most intensive mouse clicking comes in the image editing, and even there it averages only a a dozen or two clicks per minute.  So on days I am doing that I might rack up a thousand clicks per hour, but I never put in more than half a day at a time at that intensity. So five thousand clicks a day is probably a high end estimate for me, with normal activity right in line with the 7000 or so a week that tooki found.  My mouse life has been reflective of that.  Since the rubber covered steel balls and rollers went away I have had only one mouse failure, which was on the left click switch. 

[KC0PPH]

3DConnection Cad Mouse Mini is the bees knees if you are doing any type of cad work.

Im sure it would be just fine for gaming as well. I have the smaller one, as the professional seems big in my hands.