New Keithley DMM6500 and now DAQ6510

[Bugsyson]

KedasProbe, Thanks for the information, I went to the page you posted, and I show no licenses.

This information just made the the whole thing worst. First and foremost, I did not move the software, that was my grounds for asking for a new KEY, second the "Product Line Manager for Kickstart software" was involved, and they did not mention this as a possible solution, or at all. So if it is a possibility, and they should know that it is, they are knowingly trying to get me to pay for the license I already have.

[KedasProbe]

KedasProbe, Thanks for the information, I went to the page you posted, and I show no licenses.

This information just made the the whole thing worst. First and foremost, I did not move the software, that was my grounds for asking for a new KEY, second the "Product Line Manager for Kickstart software" was involved, and they did not mention this as a possible solution, or at all. So if it is a possibility, and they should know that it is, they are knowingly trying to get me to pay for the license I already have.

It will not add itself there, you will get some instructions by email to add it there with given codes.
example email:

Thank you for your order number ******* (Purchase Order:DMM6500: Free KickStart)  of 1 new software licenses for your Tektronix products. Included in this email are instructions on how to obtain those license keys.

Here is a list of the products purchased on this order:
1 - KICKSTARTFL-BASE License; KickStartFL-BASE for all base apps of KickStart 2.0; Floating


To manage the Check In and Check Out process, we have developed TekAMS, a free, web-based application available using your tek.com account.  Access TekAMS at the following URL:

http://www.tek.com/products/product-license

After you login, enter the Software License application by clicking on the "Software License" link at the top of the page, then click on the "Redeem a Claim Check" link on the page and enter your personalized code:

****** (case-sensitive)

This claim check is only good for 1 year and is specific to a MyTek account with the user name of *****@telenet.be. Please redeem your claim check now.

After you have redeemed your claim check, you will have full access to check out and check in your floating licenses using this TekAMS application.

http://www.tek.com/products/product-license

Thanks for buying Tektronix!

[Bugsyson]

I claimed the license 27-may-19, and have been using it since then, I searched my email for "TeKAMS" and nothing came up. My license show as permanent (AKA Oct 2021) again questionable practices. When I go to the License Manager Home page, In big bold letters it has "No Active Customer Relationship", sound about right 

[KedasProbe]

When I go to the License Manager Home page, In big bold letters it has "No Active Customer Relationship", sound about right 

LOL they do keep the website up to date
You were never given the free license, because you didn't asked for it at the time of purchase, (yeah you had to ask, annoying I know)
So try to make your case that you still want that free license. (if possible)

P.S. for your course material you are probably better off using the web browser control panel screen to control it remotely and get the csv file of the buffer.

[Bugsyson]

To me the whole thing is mind-boggling, it's more important to them to screw me out of $160 (and more come Oct 2021, if I did not read the fine print) Then keep potential sales in the 100's, not to mention product recognition (something that a little company call Apple did) for a generation of student, numbering in the thousands...Just wow...

Anyway, thanks for your input and help, but this is a dead horse. Damage done Tektronix Keithley.

[jjoonathan]

I purchased a DMM6500 during the floating license promo. When I asked for the floating license, my distributor said to contact Keithley and Keithley said to contact my distributor.

It never did get resolved, I just put on my big boy pants and did everything in python/scpi.

Agreed: Damage done.

[Bugsyson]

Hmm, just getting into python to program 32 bit micro's, still at the begging of the learning curve, will have to investigate using it with my DMM6500. Thanks.

[Evodad]

It never did get resolved, I just put on my big boy pants and did everything in python/scpi.

I have had the thought but it comes down to where to spend my time. Anyhing you would like to share as a starting point ?

"Kedas", thank you for your input regarding the licensing.

[Hydron]

How useful is the Kickstart software in reality? Looking into buying a DMM6500, obviously the promo is done but is it worth worrying about the software at all? (Other than worrying about Tek being dicks about this means they will be about other stuff?)

[2N3055]

.......(Other than worrying about Tek being dicks about this means they will be about other stuff?)

That, I believe the is morale of the story here..

OTOH I never saw much use for this type of prepackaged software, too limited usually and not flexible/customisable enough for real world.

In real life mostly controlling meter remotely is combined with some specific use or type of automation. So either Visual Studio + NI API or Python+Libraries for control/logging. And something to analyse data, from Excel to any other math/plotting tool and/or custom code...
I think teaching students to control instruments by writing their own code and learning to analyse it by using various tools would be of great benefit to them.

[Bugsyson]

The meter is great, I really enjoy using it. It is a bit over kill for the home lab, depending on what you are doing of coarse. I buy old test equipment and fix it up, and needed something that was at least 10X more accurate to do the calibrations before I resell (so I can buy more test equipment....Yes I should joint the TEA thread) I "sorta cal", the test equipment I repair for work (real calibration not needed) The bad is how Tek deals with things, Like the clock battery issue, not sure how all that played out for the effected people, lost track of that, and of coarse my resent rant (don't buy it because they offer you something for free, or free to pay later as it were).

The software for home use was nice but not a game changer, mostly used it so I could read the small fonts when graphing, they did release an update that made that a bit better, and a few other things.

[thetechnick]

Got my DMM6500 yesterday and I am very happy with it.
The build quality is great and I really like the interface, it's easy and quick to navigate.
All functions are quick to access. As an electronics beginner I really value the amount of information and help hints that I can access directly in the UI.

And the amount of features is just amazing at that price.
(972,49 Euro with VAT from welectron.com, Germany)

My unit was calibrated on the first of december at Tektronix in China and came with firmware 1.7.3c preinstalled.

Only downside is the already known transformer hum.
My unit is about as loud as my fridge (with the compressor running.) which might not be horrible, but it still feels excessive.
Especially because the
Another comparison might be hum from a fluorescent tube that needs replacement.

When the DDM is on, the hum is gone (as far as I can tell.)

I think I would not mind it in an office environment, but at home the hum is just too loud and I need to cut power to it when not in use.
Btw. is there a good source explaining where that transformer hum is coming from?

The fan is noticeable, but completely ok. (I actually rather have the fan running than the transformer hum )

E-Design:
If your offer still stands, could you have a quick check of my Serial Number? (Cal Certificate states Revision as 00, if thats of any help)
I would rather talk to Keithley/Tektronix support to fix the hum (if a fix is available), than trying to be lucky switching units because I definitely want to keep a DMM6500!
Thank you very much in advance!

[Pinörkel]

@thetechnick: Got my DMM650 from the same dealer. On my unit, the fan is quite loud but I did not notice any transformer hum. However, I have an issue with strong screen doubling when viewing the screen in a downwards direction, as described earlier in this thread. Does your unit also exhibit this issue?

[thetechnick]

@Pinörkel Same here with the screen. (Didn't notice, because I have it stacked to about eye level on my bench).

I would say viewing angle left to right on center high or slightly above is very good.
Being directly in front of the device and looking from below is also very good.

Screen quality (doubling/ghosting) is getting worse when looking from an angle from below.
Looking at the screen from above is worst. I start to notice it getting worse from 10 deg, at 45 deg straight it really bad.
Looking from top and the side seems to be better again.

Sorry no pictures due to poor lighting in that corner of my desk
But I don't think mine is different to your pictures.

[Pinörkel]

@Pinörkel Same here with the screen. (Didn't notice, because I have it stacked to about eye level on my bench).

I would say viewing angle left to right on center high or slightly above is very good.
Being directly in front of the device and looking from below is also very good.

Screen quality (doubling/ghosting) is getting worse when looking from an angle from below.
Looking at the screen from above is worst. I start to notice it getting worse from 10 deg, at 45 deg straight it really bad.
Looking from top and the side seems to be better again.

Sorry no pictures due to poor lighting in that corner of my desk
But I don't think mine is different to your pictures.

Hmm, that does not sound promising. I just wrote my dealer that I accept his offer to exchange the unit because I got advice in the official support forum from a Keithley employee that, based on my photos, an exchange is likely to bring an improvement. Maybe it's a particularly bad batch? I cannot imagine that this is normal on a screen of a unit of this price point. Every cheap (non-oled) smartphone touch-screen I have seen until now, even really old resistive ones, performs way better. How could such a screen pass quality control in the design process of a device whose main input and output device is the touchscreen?

[KaneTW]

My DMM6500 was successfully RMA'd under warranty for the transformer hum issue. It's not back yet, though, but RMA status shows "parts have been ordered"

[jeroncic]

I bought also DMM6500 also from welectron and i have the same issue with hum. It is great to hear that this is under the warranty.

Did you have any difficulties with the return ? Or u had to prove something ?

[KaneTW]

No questions asked. The return documentation said something like "31dB when off, 34dB when on, spec is 40dB so it's ok" but now it doesn't hum anymore so I guess they fixed it?

[maex]

Is there a KICKSTARTFL-BASE lifetime License included from welectron?

[KedasProbe]

No questions asked. The return documentation said something like "31dB when off, 34dB when on, spec is 40dB so it's ok" but now it doesn't hum anymore so I guess they fixed it?

3dB difference between on and standby and max 40dB spec that could be useful.

If you clearly hear that it is different then it will be different, there is also the possibility that transport had an impact on something unstable making it different.

[KaneTW]

It's actually 38dB when on but yeah, the old issue is definitely gone. Could be transport, could be that they fixed something--the report isn't entirely clear.

[Pinörkel]

Is there a KICKSTARTFL-BASE lifetime License included from welectron?

On mine there wasn't any Kickstart license included. Anyways, didn't this whole free Kickstart license promotion of Keithley end several years ago?

[HendriXML]

I want to use the DC ratio function to measure the current amplification (at 180 μA) and measure Vbe using a scope to be able to match pnp transistors on those parameters using the posted test circuit. (The transistors will be used in a current mirror configuration.)

Edit: transistor should be vert. mirrored.

However my current measurement resistor for the base current is 1M. The question is how high is the input impedance of the sense terminals when doing a measurement on the 10V range?

I know the sense measurement range is fixed at 10V, so the 1M resistor is intended for keeping the resolution high.

Swapping sense en input (and selecting a lower range), would lead to the issue of not be able to measure the collector current sense voltage to fine tune that current by changing VCC.

[leighcorrigall]

Yup. It is going overseas to be dismantled.

As a follow-up, the Keithley DMM6500 was found to have a defective board and it was replaced under warranty. It took a bit of whining on my end to convince them that the instrument was faulty, but the factory fixed it. They even calibrated the unit free of charge, so the instrument is good for another year. This was not a firmware issue like the technical support thought it to be.

Trust in yourself and don't let others tell you what they think before they inspect it. 

[HendriXML]

I want to use the DC ratio function to measure the current amplification (at 180 μA) and measure Vbe using a scope to be able to match pnp transistors on those parameters using the posted test circuit. (The transistors will be used in a current mirror configuration.)

However my current measurement resistor for the base current is 1M. The question is how high is the input impedance of the sense terminals when doing a measurement on the 10V range?

I know the sense measurement range is fixed at 10V, so the 1M resistor is intended for keeping the resolution high.

Swapping sense en input (and selecting a lower range), would lead to the issue of not be able to measure the collector current sense voltage to fine tune that current by changing VCC.

It got me thinking, maybe putting a voltage follower on the transistor base to lessen the "load" on it would be better?