There is basically no difference between manipulating the engine map inside the ECU or "outside". The outcome is the same: more fuel in the cylinder. And as long as we stay in a reasonable range (10-25%), there is no problem with the air mixture. A diesel engine works with excess air (not like a petrol engine with Lambda = 1). And we have another mechanism working for us: More burned fuel means more exhaust which is driving the the turbocharger. And we can also manipulate the MAP-Sensor (Manifold-Absolute-Pressure).
A lot of commercial tuning Boxes work this way.
As I wrote earlier: You DONT raise the pressure all the time. Just when a "power boost" is needed.
Of course you increase the mechanical stress on all components when using the extra power. If you don't want one: fine. Your choice.
I am still looking for car enthusiasts willing and able to help with the software and test subjects.
fully agree , your statements are 100% valid for diesels with electronically controlled rotary injection pumps and pressure driven injectors (single pilot injection and the main injection) ... those engines got few variables - air flow, boost , amount of fuel to be injected... very simple, elegant and easy to tune engines...... but please stop convincing anyone that it's the same for modern common rail engines ... just have a look at the 3rd generation of VW diesels, apart from the shitload of sensors and way too complicated engine.... those even got an intake manifold flap - something seen on petrol engines only before.
Not to rain in your parade, but my Strakar L200 from 2001 has an intake manifold flap, made by Mikuni, so its a sort of common thing.
Nothing I can show will convince rob77 and people like him that the thing is real. Or would a schematic really convince you? Don't feed the Troll...
Is someone here who is able to understand the function of a common rail diesel engine and likes writing software? At the moment the necessary parameters in the arduino firmware are "hard-coded". It works, but only on my engine and certanly not optimal. A PC interface to show the signals and change the parameters while driving would be the next step.And how do you check that it is really working and not a placebo effect. Like audiofools are hearing how power cable changes the sound
If someone wants to work with me on this project, please send me a PM.
Enough trolling and smattering for this week!
and again.. anything modern simply can't be SAFELY TUNED via a "power box" , you have to manipulate (correctly and carefully) the ECU maps.
and again.. anything modern simply can't be SAFELY TUNED via a "power box" , you have to manipulate (correctly and carefully) the ECU maps.
You seem to be (quite aggressively) displaying a lot of ignorance on how modern common rail systems function. It's not only entirely possible to increase the power output with relative safety, you can buy a wide range of 'tuning boxes' to achieve this.
You can only increase fuel pressure by so much before protection systems with the ECU will flag a fault, but to suggest that is can't be done at all is ridiculous.
It would seem easier to make a complete computer to run all the engine's functions. Something like FreeEMS, but for diesel.
MegaSquirt ECU's also seem to be popular and there is a lot of tuners using them, but all the testint/fine tuning is done in a rolling road/dyno.
MegaSquirt® controllers will work on virtually any liquid fueled spark-ignition engine, naturally aspirated or boosted (up to 21 psi boost with the standard MAP sensor) as long as they are not 'pollution controlled'.
MegaSquirt ECU's also seem to be popular and there is a lot of tuners using them, but all the testint/fine tuning is done in a rolling road/dyno.
that megasquirt is off the bucket quote from their web:QuoteMegaSquirt® controllers will work on virtually any liquid fueled spark-ignition engine, naturally aspirated or boosted (up to 21 psi boost with the standard MAP sensor) as long as they are not 'pollution controlled'.
the topic was a Turbo Diesel Tuning Box for modern common rail engines. but otherwise that megasquirt might be an interesting piece of hardware - as a learning platform
Sorry, had the idea that they already had a unit for diesel engines.
Sorry, had the idea that they already had a unit for diesel engines.
It's all to do with technology, so here's a quick summary.
Ignoring the similar things both ECUs have to monitor/control, the basics a petrol ECU has to do, is control fuel pressure using a bit PWM of the fuel pump, inject the correct amount of fuel at roughly the correct time, and fire the sparkplugs with reasonable accuracy and adjust the timing according to the knock sensor feedback.
When I say roughly, within a degree is usually good enough for a petrol engine to run smoothly.
Now take a modern diesel. It has to control fuel pressure again using PWM but via a solenoid valve on a mechanical pump, so you have the added factor of the amount of regulation varying with engine speed/load, and due to the tolerances on modern systems, this has to be a self learning function to continually adapt as things wear. Then you have to provide ~80V to open the injectors multiple times with accurate timing (latest engines are using upto 7 distinct injection pulses) and vary the fuel quantity according to required torque, aswell as monitoring and compensating for cylinder balance and knock. Then you have particulate filter monitoring/regenerating with some of the latest cars having urea injection, and not forgetting electronic turbo wastegates.
Common between petrol and diesel are things like EGR, o2 sensors, air flow, atmospheric and manifold pressure, electronic throttle bodies, electric thermostats, and engine ECUs also often handle the A/C and cooling fans.
Then on top of that, you need the fault monitoring. Petrols will usually just run rough/cut-out if something goes wrong, whereas a diesel runs the very potential risk of extensive engine damage if something goes wrong and doesn't get detected quick enough.
Sorry, had the idea that they already had a unit for diesel engines.
It's all to do with technology, so here's a quick summary.
Ignoring the similar things both ECUs have to monitor/control, the basics a petrol ECU has to do, is control fuel pressure using a bit PWM of the fuel pump, inject the correct amount of fuel at roughly the correct time, and fire the sparkplugs with reasonable accuracy and adjust the timing according to the knock sensor feedback.
When I say roughly, within a degree is usually good enough for a petrol engine to run smoothly.
Now take a modern diesel. It has to control fuel pressure again using PWM but via a solenoid valve on a mechanical pump, so you have the added factor of the amount of regulation varying with engine speed/load, and due to the tolerances on modern systems, this has to be a self learning function to continually adapt as things wear. Then you have to provide ~80V to open the injectors multiple times with accurate timing (latest engines are using upto 7 distinct injection pulses) and vary the fuel quantity according to required torque, aswell as monitoring and compensating for cylinder balance and knock. Then you have particulate filter monitoring/regenerating with some of the latest cars having urea injection, and not forgetting electronic turbo wastegates.
Common between petrol and diesel are things like EGR, o2 sensors, air flow, atmospheric and manifold pressure, electronic throttle bodies, electric thermostats, and engine ECUs also often handle the A/C and cooling fans.
Then on top of that, you need the fault monitoring. Petrols will usually just run rough/cut-out if something goes wrong, whereas a diesel runs the very potential risk of extensive engine damage if something goes wrong and doesn't get detected quick enough.
You're making it seem really complicated to run an engine decently. There's what OEMs need to do to pass XYZ regulations, and then there's what's actually necessary to have a nice-driving vehicle. Most of what you mentioned can be ignored/not implemented for a DIY engine computer.
is that there is NO WAY of safely tuning a MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE with a tuning box because the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE is way too complicated.
and don't forget ... in EU any modification to the engine which will result in non compliance to regulations is illegal.
Sorry, had the idea that they already had a unit for diesel engines.
It's all to do with technology, so here's a quick summary.
Ignoring the similar things both ECUs have to monitor/control, the basics a petrol ECU has to do, is control fuel pressure using a bit PWM of the fuel pump, inject the correct amount of fuel at roughly the correct time, and fire the sparkplugs with reasonable accuracy and adjust the timing according to the knock sensor feedback.
When I say roughly, within a degree is usually good enough for a petrol engine to run smoothly.
Now take a modern diesel. It has to control fuel pressure again using PWM but via a solenoid valve on a mechanical pump, so you have the added factor of the amount of regulation varying with engine speed/load, and due to the tolerances on modern systems, this has to be a self learning function to continually adapt as things wear. Then you have to provide ~80V to open the injectors multiple times with accurate timing (latest engines are using upto 7 distinct injection pulses) and vary the fuel quantity according to required torque, aswell as monitoring and compensating for cylinder balance and knock. Then you have particulate filter monitoring/regenerating with some of the latest cars having urea injection, and not forgetting electronic turbo wastegates.
Common between petrol and diesel are things like EGR, o2 sensors, air flow, atmospheric and manifold pressure, electronic throttle bodies, electric thermostats, and engine ECUs also often handle the A/C and cooling fans.
Then on top of that, you need the fault monitoring. Petrols will usually just run rough/cut-out if something goes wrong, whereas a diesel runs the very potential risk of extensive engine damage if something goes wrong and doesn't get detected quick enough.
You're making it seem really complicated to run an engine decently. There's what OEMs need to do to pass XYZ regulations, and then there's what's actually necessary to have a nice-driving vehicle. Most of what you mentioned can be ignored/not implemented for a DIY engine computer.
please stop confusing the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINES with the old fashion turbo diesels with rotary injection pumps or with the first generation common rail... what we're trying to tell you, is that there is NO WAY of safely tuning a MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE with a tuning box because the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE is way too complicated.
and don't forget ... in EU any modification to the engine which will result in non compliance to regulations is illegal. so you can only tune your engine within boundaries set by allowed emissions and noise levels.
Sorry, had the idea that they already had a unit for diesel engines.
It's all to do with technology, so here's a quick summary.
Ignoring the similar things both ECUs have to monitor/control, the basics a petrol ECU has to do, is control fuel pressure using a bit PWM of the fuel pump, inject the correct amount of fuel at roughly the correct time, and fire the sparkplugs with reasonable accuracy and adjust the timing according to the knock sensor feedback.
When I say roughly, within a degree is usually good enough for a petrol engine to run smoothly.
Now take a modern diesel. It has to control fuel pressure again using PWM but via a solenoid valve on a mechanical pump, so you have the added factor of the amount of regulation varying with engine speed/load, and due to the tolerances on modern systems, this has to be a self learning function to continually adapt as things wear. Then you have to provide ~80V to open the injectors multiple times with accurate timing (latest engines are using upto 7 distinct injection pulses) and vary the fuel quantity according to required torque, aswell as monitoring and compensating for cylinder balance and knock. Then you have particulate filter monitoring/regenerating with some of the latest cars having urea injection, and not forgetting electronic turbo wastegates.
Common between petrol and diesel are things like EGR, o2 sensors, air flow, atmospheric and manifold pressure, electronic throttle bodies, electric thermostats, and engine ECUs also often handle the A/C and cooling fans.
Then on top of that, you need the fault monitoring. Petrols will usually just run rough/cut-out if something goes wrong, whereas a diesel runs the very potential risk of extensive engine damage if something goes wrong and doesn't get detected quick enough.
You're making it seem really complicated to run an engine decently. There's what OEMs need to do to pass XYZ regulations, and then there's what's actually necessary to have a nice-driving vehicle. Most of what you mentioned can be ignored/not implemented for a DIY engine computer.
please stop confusing the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINES with the old fashion turbo diesels with rotary injection pumps or with the first generation common rail... what we're trying to tell you, is that there is NO WAY of safely tuning a MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE with a tuning box because the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE is way too complicated.
and don't forget ... in EU any modification to the engine which will result in non compliance to regulations is illegal. so you can only tune your engine within boundaries set by allowed emissions and noise levels.
What exactly is complicated about tuning a modern diesel engine... if you only seek a level of refinement that is on-par with mechanical injection? Consider that for us hobbyists compliance with emissions is irrelevant.
Is it the lack of a prechamber?
Furthermore, I would never suggest a man-in-the-middle tuning box, only a complete computer replacement.
is that there is NO WAY of safely tuning a MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE with a tuning box because the MODERN COMMON RAIL ENGINE is way too complicated.
This is simply not true. Piggy back systems are still available for modern common rail engines, by modern I assume you mean the past ~10 years.
Piggy back has some advantages over ECM reflash. First of all, OEM ECMs are so damn complicated it takes a while for tuner companies to crack them. Also, some of the very latest ECM detect and count ECM reflashes, which "informs" the dealership of tampering, in-line/piggy back systems are still not detectable if you end up in a warranty situation.
Last big advantage, piggy back systems more easily allow for selectable tunes via rotary dash switch, this is very desirable for many, economy tune, to a race tune while driving down the street.
Just one example of a popular piggy back system, up to 13' model year
https://www.diablosport.com/products/powerpuck.html
Lastly, when all out performance is demanded, neither a piggy back or a reflash will do, nothing beats a P-Pump.