FLIR One Gen2 failure investigation + FULL RESET method by Fraser

• #50 Reply
  Posted by McDoS on 20 Apr, 2017 10:21
• Fraser, you have a lot of FlirOne devices. Can you do one experiment for me with one of your correctly working device? I'm very interested to know some one: if disconnect all modules from PCB does it starts to charge if connect USB charger (battery must be connected). Does the green led near USB lights up?
• #51 Reply
  Posted by marlendive on 20 Apr, 2017 14:45
• Yesterday a strange thing happened: I was trying to connect my F1G2 to the PC using a USB-microUSB adapter.
  Nothing happened, but suddenly the small green light near the USB charging plug started flashing.
  The orange led became green, too.
  I tried to connect it to the smartphone and it was recognized by the Flir App, I checked in the setting menu and the firmware resulted up to date.
  After few seconds, the led turned into orange again and it was not possible to use the camera, just pushing the power button, the green light turns on again, but it lasts very few seconds.
• #52 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 20 Apr, 2017 22:08
• @McDoS
  
  I do not have any FLIR One units disassembled at the moment and I am currently dealing with the death of a loved one so not doing any work on cameras for a while. Sorry.
  
  Regards
  
  Fraser
• #53 Reply
  Posted by bitseeker on 21 Apr, 2017 04:18
• Sorry to hear, Fraser. Condolences.
• #54 Reply
  Posted by McDoS on 21 Apr, 2017 10:49
• So sad... Condolences.
• #55 Reply
  Posted by fusebit on 28 Apr, 2017 16:30
• That isn't a general solution   
  
  

  Quote from: Fraser on 25 Mar, 2017 22:19

  OK, Patient resuscitated and healthy 
  
  The LiPo cell was charged and refitted in the camera. The camera only illuminated the Orange power button LED and could not be shut down.
  The camera appeared to be in a permanent 'on' state but not booting. This would explain the fact that when connected to the USB charger the power LED lit ORANGE and stayed on.
  
  In order to reset the camera to its correct stand-by state and normal operation I carried out the following reset routine after some experimentation
  
  1. Disconnect the LiPo cell from the PCB
  2. Connect the USB charging cable. The Orange Power button LED will light
  3. Press and hold the Power button until the Power button LED extinguishes - forced shut-down (If you release the button it will go back to solid Orange again. i.e. no change in state)
  4. Whilst still holding the Power button in, disconnect the USB charging lead, then release the Power button
  5. Reconnect the LiPo battery. The Power LED will light Orange.
  6. Press the Power button. The Power LED will start to flash green and the camera will boot normally
  7. Press the Power button to switch off the camera
  8. Push the Power button and the camera will boot normally.
  
  The camera is now working normally. It appears that these cameras have somewhat flaky firmware that can get locked into a permanent semi-standby state that will flatten the battery completely (to the cameras 3.0V cut-off point). The only way to recover the firmware to a state that works is to carry out the a full system reset as detailed above. This erased the registers and sets the camera to its factory default conditions. From that point onwards it can boot normally.
  
  I seem to recall that FLIR provided some similar instructions to factory Reset the old FLIR ONE Gen1 for iOS. They told people to let the battery go completely flat before a power on reset sequence. I forget the details but my experimentation came up with an equivalent for the F1G2.
  
  Hope this helps others.
  
  Fraser
  

  
  I do have a FLIR one G2 for about 14 month now and it worked properly all the time until today.
  I switched it on and the LED stayed orange, no chance to switch it off or charge or connect it to the phone. Some search and I discovered this thread and gave it a try, but it doesn't work. The camera stays in the hooked-up orange mode (I charged the battery externally, it was at 3,74V before). Too bad, stupid me also damaged the battery plug. But after 14 month the gurantee is gone anyhow...
  
  
• #56 Reply
  Posted by fusebit on 28 Apr, 2017 17:15
•   I do have a large set of good Wiha Torx, but not the f... TR-type 
  Hopefully I'll be able to get one tomorrow to check the Sensor seating.
• #57 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 28 Apr, 2017 17:53
• Fusebit,
  
  Under European retail law, an item must be fit for purpose and is normally liable to a 2 year period of OEM support responsibility. i.e, it it fails within 2 years they should help you.
  
  If you still have your receipt, please contact FLIR customer services and explain the situation. You may be pleasantly surprised !
  
  Kind Regards
  
  Fraser
• #58 Reply
  Posted by fusebit on 28 Apr, 2017 18:53
• Hi Fraser,
  
  your absolutely right, but this isn't valid anymore, because I opened the device. So it's my fault...
  Now it's open, so I could also do the sensor socket check.
  
  Maybe I'll check anyhow how much a repair would cost.
  The camera is a great gadget and I want it in operation again.
  
  Kind regards
• #59 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 28 Apr, 2017 19:24
• Yes you opened the case, but it had already failed. FLIR do not actually repair these units. I suggest you still ask about a replacement unit and say nothing about the internal inspection. IMHO this is still morally OK as you did not cause the fault.
  
  I trust you have not mangled the casing too obviously ?
  
  Fraser
• #60 Reply
  Posted by Vipitis on 28 Apr, 2017 20:11
• Quote from: Fraser on 28 Feb, 2017 23:02

  I have some very nice mini Germanium optical blocks to play with
  
  

  
  you mentioned this in the beginning - can you show me exactly what those blocks are and how they work?
  
  I am really really interested in micro optics for building a small telescope(just 3x or 5x for the beginning) for the lepton inside my CAT S60 phone.
  
  I will read the experiments by Thomas123 now, but the Flir One gen2 has the same lepton sensor as far as I know.
  
  and it is a FoV of like 51 and 3... so I really need to narrow it for any kind of magnification.
  
  Jan
• #61 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 28 Apr, 2017 22:11
• Not really for this thread as off topic but I can summarise......
  
  Optical blocks are the complete lens element set that sits in front of the microbolometer. These can comprise a Doublet, three or more lens elements depending upon design. My lens blocks have come from various thermal cameras and have different fields of view. The diameter of the lens blocks varies depending upon the size of the sensor they were used with. None of the lens blocks I have are telephoto types.
  
  What I do have are several auxiliary lens assemblies that sit in front of a cameras objective lens to provide a wider or nattower field of view and magnification. The two magnifications I have are X2 and X3. The X2 is a FLIR product and the X3 comes from Inframetrics. These are called Telescopes in thermal imaging circles.
  
  Foe Astro photography applications I would recommend modifying a reflector telescope as they are relatively inexpensive. You need one with a decent surface reflective mirror. You need to modify the eyepiece prism and fit a 45 Degree surface reflective flat mirror to direct the image towards the cameras objective. It will take some experimentation to get right.
  
  The resolution of the camera is quite important for Astrophotography and in this respect the affordable thermal cameras are relatively low resolution. This limits the targets that may be imaged somewhat.
  
  The FLIR ONE Gen 2 uses a LEPTON 3 with 160 x 120 pixels in its microbolometer. Your S60 camera has a quarter of the pixels at 80 x 60 pixels.
  I would recommend a decent 320 x 240 pixel low noise thermal camera for astrophotography, but the cost of such is not insignificant. Try your low resolution camera with a used reflector telescope and see how much can be achieved with that. Any refractor type telescope designs need thermal wavelength transmissive lenses (not BK Glass!) and will be very expensive to make or buy built.
  
  The Thermal Expert appears an excellent camera for Astophotography when coupled to a suitable reflector or refractor telescope.
  
  Making your own refractor telescope for the thermal domain is not trivial.
  
  Fraser
• #62 Reply
  Posted by Vipitis on 29 Apr, 2017 09:40
• Thanks, your knowledge really helped me out.
  
  I don't really plan on buying a camera. But the reflector telescope  seems to be a good option, as it can easily be used for thermal and visual observation of the sky.
  
  Regrading auxiliary telescopic lenses, I saw this example https://youtu.be/pc7ZwEyY5rA
  
  Boris claims to build the scopes on his own.
  
  
  For a reflector telescope there are different designs. The Newtonian with an eyepiece to the side and a angled secondary mirror.
  
  Or the Gregorian/Cassegrian way with having a big hole in the primary mirror.
  
  For thermal use the biggest problem will be the eyepiece/ focusser as those aren't build out of LWIR transparent material, and even a small lens can get really expensive.
  
  My current goal is to find some items arround me just to see if the effect works.
  
  I tried different reflective rounded objects like transgender can lids, spoons, plates, bowls, follower pots.
  
  I will try to visit a local store which has some real telescopes and ask them about testing it thermally by removing the eyepiece.
  
  Thanks again,
  
  Jan
• #63 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 29 Apr, 2017 11:59
• Jan,
  
  Boris is a clever chap who has built useable telescopes. In some of his designs he had to purchase suitable lens elements that were expensive via retail sources. You should expect to pay around $200 to $400 for the two or three required lens elements. The telescope is often Keplerian so inverting unless a third Erector lens is fitted. A two lens element Galilean non inverting telescope can be built but this requires a bi-convex Objective and a bi-concave output lens of matched specifications. The Galilean has some limitations as you can read about on the refracting telescope Wiki pages.
  
  It is easy to build a telescope, either visible light or LWIR, but LWIR presents the not insignificant challenge of obtaining suitable FL and diameter lens events that work in the LW spectrum. Germanium is an obvious choice but even used lens events can be expensive. A cheaper alternative is ZnSe but sadly the cheap Chinese ZnSe lenses are limited to diameters below 20mm with FL's of 25mm, 50mm, 63mm and 100mm.
  
  To adapt the LEPTON cameras lens to the telescope you would remove all visible light lenses from the image path and use some cheap ZnSe lens elements to match the telescope to the camera. You could use a suitable FL ZnSe lens as a close up lens viewing the Telescopes second mirror.
  
  I regret I am not an optical expert so cannot offer exact instruction on how to achieve such a conversion.
  
  If you want to see what ZnSe lenses are available, just search for ZnSE or ZnSe CO2 on eBay and you will find many ranging from around $10 upwards.
  The lenses are made for the CO2 laser engraver and cutter market, hence the limited range of sizes and FL's.
  
  Fraser
• #64 Reply
  Posted by Vipitis on 29 Apr, 2017 14:11
• a bunch of helpful information!
  
  I think the best option is to buy a reflective newtonian telescope and replace the eyepiece with either one of thesehttps://www.edmundoptics.de/microscopy/infinity-corrected-objectives/zinc-selenide-infrared-ir-focusing-objectives/ - or a cheaper alternative. If not the full focus eyepiece, I can try to measure the stock lens in the eyepiece and look for a cheap ZnSe or Germanium replacement.
  
  It is a crazy project I though about only a few days ago, but I invested a lot of time into research and I would be really disappointed if I don't have any results.
  
  Lots of thanks once again,
  Jan
• #65 Reply
  Posted by Santiago on 21 May, 2017 17:05
• Fraser, as I understood from all the posts around here only you can help me.
  I got my FLIR One from a UK ebay seller as Brand New Open Box. And received it Open Box without any accessory inside.
  Moreover it doesn't work with any Android smartphone or tablet. I've tried Galaxy S4, S6, S7, Motorola G4 and some more. No result.
  All the LEDs light and blink in the right way but no connection happens. No infrared image appears on the screen.
  Does it mean USB connector is damaged?
  What can you recommend in my situation?
  Here is what the FLIR suppord answered.
  
  Thank you for contacting us. We have received your email in regards your FLIR ONE. For this issue we do recommend you to perform the following troubleshoot steps:
  •Perform a hard reset on the FLIR ONE while connected to the charger by holding the power button down for 30 seconds.
  •Try to reinstall the app.
  •Let the battery drain overnight and try charging it again (with another charger if possible).
  •Test it with different compatible devices.
  •Try to use different USB cords or different Power outlets.
  
  Anyway nothing of this has helped.
  
  Among those faulty devices you fixed up was one with the same issue?
  
• #66 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 22 May, 2017 10:35
• I have an iOS F1G2 that appears to boot correctly but will not connect to a host. I regret I have not investigated this fault yet so cannot offer a solution at the moment. I personally would start with disconnection of the battery to force a full cold start rather than a reset. Whilst the camera is open yo can remove the PCB and inspect it for solder splashes on the USB connections or other issues.
  
  Sadly the PCB is secured using tamper resistant miniature Torx head screws. I have yet to find a hollow torx driver that small so I use a flat blade jewelers screwdriver and a lot of care !
  
  Fraser
• #67 Reply
  Posted by Santiago on 22 May, 2017 12:50
• Thanks for the detailed answer!
  I have tried to do both hard reset and battery disconnection. And then hard reset after your algorithm. Nothing has helped.
  I can remove the PCB (3 screws) - happily I have the suitable screwdriver, but the 2 screws that hold the USB connector seem to be of different size. My screwdriver doesn't fit it.
  What can I use to remove this 2 screws? Can you offer the photo of your screwdriver?
  Besides I have a question about your way of hard reset: when I remove the battery and connect the USB power cable the small green LED near the male USB connector blinks 3 times and then pause for a couple of seconds and this cycle continues. Is it normal?
• #68 Reply
  Posted by ulltrium on 05 Sep, 2017 13:45
• Hi guys,
  Let me share my experience with FlirOne. I read your messages and decided to test my luck so I purchased a faulty FlirOne 2nd gen for Android from ebay. I received it yesterday in its original box with all the accessories, it looks like new. I plugged it in to see if it charges and the power button LED turned orange, a very low current was sucked from the usb port, around 20mA.
  I let it plugged in over night and in the morning I found it blinking green (charging). On the ampermeter and the current increased to around 40mA. After couple of hours still charging, very slowly at 40mA) so I decided to give it a try, I connected the phone, started the application and bingo - I got the image.
  I know it's premature to conclude but I believe that in my case the battery was completely discharged (if not faulty, I'll see about that in the next couple of days). Right now it is still plugged into an usb port, blinking green and slowly charging at 40mA (I'm hoping the charging circuitry is smart enough and detected the battery was completely discharged and carefully charging it back at a very low current). I'll come back in a couple of days and let you know how it works, after I conclude if the battery is still usable.
  Regards,
  Ulltrium.
• #69 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 05 Sep, 2017 15:07
• With the 'completely discharged' battery symptom, I am suspicious that the FLIR ONE G2 power management can sometimes malfunction and flatten the battery even when "off". That is the problem with soft power control. The unit is never completely off and sits in various hibernate, sleep and run modes, just like modern laptops, tablets and phones. If it does not enter hibernate when it should, it discharges the battery. Thee is also the possibility of faulty LiPo batteries with high self discharge or low capacity. The FLIR ONE G2 seems to have problems when presented with a completely discharged battery. They sometimes will not restart unless the battery is charged externally and then refitted in the camera.
  
  There certainly seem to be issues with the FLIR ONE G2 battery circuit.
  
  Fraser
• #70 Reply
  Posted by ulltrium on 06 Sep, 2017 07:20
• I agree, the issue seems to be related to the battery circuit. Yesterday my camera worked well for a couple of minutes then turned off. I opened it and extracted the battery with the intention to charge it externally and put it back inside. I immediately noticed that the battery connector is not good, if I touch the battery wires the orange led turns of and on randomly, it is obvious that the contact is poor. However, I removed the battery and charged it with an external charger, it was not completely discharged as I thought (I measured 3.5V) so my LiPo charger accepted it and did its job.
  Then I connected back the battery inside the camera but unfortunately it doesn't work, I got again the orange light. No reset works, nothing, I'm stuck in this mode. It is very frustrating.
• #71 Reply
  Posted by dundee on 08 Sep, 2017 21:34
• Hi Guys!
  I also bought a faulty Flir One 2nd Edition for IOS.
  
  At first i tried to charge the battery by USB. Nothing happend, no current flows.
  Next I disconnected the battery and checked the voltage: 0V.
  
  I've charged the battery now with my external charger. Connected back nothing happens (even LED's).
  
  Next i decided to connect my Power Supply to the Camera's battery connector. There's a current of 38mA.
  If i press the power button for 10-15 Seconds the current goes to 0. No LED lights...
  
  Any ideas where to start? Battery circuit?
  
  
  
  
• #72 Reply
  Posted by Mjolinor on 20 Oct, 2017 14:07
• 
  Much Googling and lots of hits about this "reset" method but not a lot other than  that to help solve the orange LED problem.
  
  Gave up Googling and just thought it is probably better to just get in there with oscilloscope, microscope, probes etc etc.
  
  Under the microscope the BGA soldering is kind of similar to a pile of camel dung and a good dose of freezer under the micro then the camera started functioning correctly for five minutes or so. Squirted a load of flux under there and gave it some with the rework station and the camera is fixed, at least for now. Charging LED works, green flashing LED under the switch and can turn it on and off with the button.
  
  Maybe this will help the next guy that has one of these things. I don't think I will have this for long. I think the build quality is crap compared to the Seek and as the seek has a focusing lens it is much better for fault finding on PCBs. Still, one has to try these things in order to draw those conclusions.
  
• #73 Reply
  Posted by Fraser on 20 Oct, 2017 16:04
• Thanks for your findings. I have one stubborn FLIR One G2 that has not come back to life with a reset. I shall try rework on the BGA chips to see what happens. Nothing to lose as that camera was kept only for its Lepton core.
  
  The failure rate on these cameras is of concern. I have never seen such in FLIR products before. A case of building down to a price and using the cheapest Chinese tender for the build maybe ? Such could lead people to believe that FLIR produce unreliable products in general.
  
  Do look at the Therm App and Thermal Expert offerings before buying a SEEK product though.
  
  Fraser
• #74 Reply
  Posted by Mjolinor on 20 Oct, 2017 20:49
• 
  I already have a Seek so could compare directly, it is why I bought the flir one and I much prefer the Seek. I have sort of looked at other third party things for the Seek but I don't use Windo$e on anything, that meant there isn't a lot to see really. When time permits I will probably look at getting it working with Linux but as the primary use is for spotting hot stuff on PCBs I don't think anything will be better than the smart phone / tablet.